MTG Salvation

I've had this deck for a long time. One of my favorite perhaps. Usually played in a 2-4 player group. I know it has a low land count and sometimes does bad because of it so I wanted to see if you guys had any ways of making this deck better. Please let me know your ideas.



Edit: Please do not suggest the Level Up knight. It's horrible.

There's this really good Level Up knight that you should look into acquiring. It's bonkers powerful and scales wildly out of control as the game progresses. Otherwise you might to run run some Phyrexian Metamorphs to give yourself the ability to double up on Knight Exemplar that much more easily. Beyond that you top priority should be to shave some spells for some more lands because, as you said, it's definitely costing you games. The Idyllic Tutors and Marshal's Anthem seem like the obvious cuts to me.

Kabira Vindicator?

Quote from Thijs1301 »

Kabira Vindicator?

Let's just say that you might not want to take that statement too seriously.

I may end up regretting this statement, but I do take Student of Warfare rather seriously.

Figured that's what you were referring to here..

I'm not that impressed by any level-up knight.
I picked the one that seemed most powerful.
The 4/4 double strike is cool but I wouldn't call it "really good, bonkets or scaling wildly".

So, Mr Prid3, which did you mean?

Quote from Thijs1301 »

So, Mr Prid3, which did you mean?

It was a joke.

Sarcasm works better in spoken language.
Try punctuation...

Or smileys.
(-:

There's a guy in my playgroup who occasionally runs a Knight deck that features Knight of the Reliquary and Armageddon, but that's fairly budget-unfriendly, and lots of people hate land destruction. I think he's maybe got a couple non-knights like Terravore in there too, and some mana dorks...not sure what the exact list is, but it's an okay strategy, even if the strongest lines of play usually don't involve any of the actual knights in the deck.

My missus runs a Knight deck - it's her fave deck, and has been thru a heap of different versions. She looks very similar to Exemplar, short of the armour and horse LOL, so we've pretty much called the card by her first name for ages.

She runs Blue/White currently, has 4 Phyrexian Metamorph and 4 Rite of Replication's in there to not only copy Exemplar, but to copy whatever the biggest treat might be on the table. It's surprisingly useful being able to copy a Sepulchral Primordial 5 times. Who would've thought?
She also runs Wrath of God & Planar Collapse (yeah she wipes the table often) to keep the table clear of threats so she can do her thang.
Her deck has been through quite a few different versions, splashing green or red at various times, equipment or auras.
Blue is by far the most flexible. Her deck is hard to kill as she can easily change strategy from indestructible, to copying the biggest beatstick.

If you're running plains only, why aren't you running Armored Ascension? It's the only reason to keep the deck mono-coloured, outside Emeria.

If I was going to make any changes to the above list in post#1 without splashing a 2nd colour;
I'd cut all enchantments you have listed, drop the tutor, drop honor of the pure and spectral procession, up the land count, get in Metamorphs & AA.
You need more answers to non-creature perms. Return to Dust (build dependant) might be more effective as a sweeper like Serenity, Fracturing Gust etc., but you need a good 2-3 of them in the deck at least.

Leonin Skyhunter or Spectral Rider may be an option if you're intent on using equipment.

Quote from slave »

My missus runs a Knight deck - it's her fave deck, and has been thru a heap of different versions. She looks very similar to Exemplar, short of the armour and horse LOL, so we've pretty much called the card by her first name for ages.

She runs Blue/White currently, has 4 Phyrexian Metamorph and 4 Rite of Replication's in there to not only copy Exemplar, but to copy whatever the biggest treat might be on the table. It's surprisingly useful being able to copy a Sepulchral Primordial 5 times. Who would've thought?
She also runs Wrath of God & Planar Collapse (yeah she wipes the table often) to keep the table clear of threats so she can do her thang.
Her deck has been through quite a few different versions, splashing green or red at various times, equipment or auras.
Blue is by far the most flexible. Her deck is hard to kill as she can easily change strategy from indestructible, to copying the biggest beatstick.

Got a decklist? I'm running Knights myself again and I run Phyrexian Metamorph already and will happily pay two life for the card. Rite of Replication seems great but does it get kicked often? I feel like there are cheaper clone effects Imageif splashing blue albeit with drawbacks but I can't deny the power of Rite if it's kicked!

EDIT: My missus likes to run knights when we duel as well.

Quote from TechnicolorMage »

Quote from slave »

My missus runs a Knight deck - it's her fave deck, and has been thru a heap of different versions. She looks very similar to Exemplar, short of the armour and horse LOL, so we've pretty much called the card by her first name for ages.

She runs Blue/White currently, has 4 Phyrexian Metamorph and 4 Rite of Replication's in there to not only copy Exemplar, but to copy whatever the biggest treat might be on the table. It's surprisingly useful being able to copy a Sepulchral Primordial 5 times. Who would've thought?
She also runs Wrath of God & Planar Collapse (yeah she wipes the table often) to keep the table clear of threats so she can do her thang.
Her deck has been through quite a few different versions, splashing green or red at various times, equipment or auras.
Blue is by far the most flexible. Her deck is hard to kill as she can easily change strategy from indestructible, to copying the biggest beatstick.

Got a decklist? I'm running Knights myself again and I run Phyrexian Metamorph already and will happily pay two life for the card. Rite of Replication seems great but does it get kicked often? I feel like there are cheaper clone effects Imageif splashing blue albeit with drawbacks but I can't deny the power of Rite if it's kicked!

EDIT: My missus likes to run knights when we duel as well.

White can do some very cheesy things with Azorius Chancery + Knight of the White Orchid in the early-game into Sun Titan + Fetchlands/Myriad Landscape in the lategame to accrue an absurd land count while playing zero dedicated ramp spells. If it seems pointless, it's not, because having multiple active Emeria, the Sky Ruins is bonkers. You recur Sun Titan + Reveillark and the Titan recurs Knight Exemplar and when the Lark dies he recurs 2 knights on and on and on. It's all relevant and it's all free value because you literally don't have to play any bad/dead cards that you wouldn't otherwise be willing to jam in a deck and you never find yourself drawing dead ramp spells in the lategame.

Show me the nastiest Knight list you can think of Prid3, something that is powerful. My knight decks while still powerful in a vacuum feel so linear and boring. I need something that my opponents will fear while keeping the Knight flavor there.

I don't feel like Knights have scaled as well creature wise as some other tribes or just creatures in general

Quote from TechnicolorMage »

Show me the nastiest Knight list you can think of Prid3, something that is powerful. My knight decks while still powerful in a vacuum feel so linear and boring. I need something that my opponents will fear while keeping the Knight flavor there.

I don't feel like Knights have scaled as well creature wise as some other tribes or just creatures in general

I don't have some super secret Knight deck or anything. The only interest Knight (IMO) is Haakon, Stromgald Scourge but he's relatively expensive to build around since you can't easily splash him in an otherwise White deck.

For me it's just a matter of small optimizations and playing for the lategame. For example, I'll always run Grasp of Fate over O-Ring and I'll never play cards like Honor of the Pure, Idyllic Tutor, Spectral Procession and Marshal's Anthem. Spec Proc isn't unplayable by any means but I want to field that in a dedicated token deck as opposed to something like this.

Otherwise my gameplan is to go greedy and go long. I field more 5+ drops such as Karmic Guide, Knight-Captain of Eos (good Hero of Bladehold synergy), more Sun Titans (I'll always play 4) and Emeria Shepherd.

For the manabase I'll always play 4x Myriad Landscape to pair with my 4x Sun Titan because I always plan on hitting Emeria, the Sky Ruin mana and so I'll actively want to draw as many of them as possible. That's why I tend to play 4 whereas you only play 2. Then it's just a matter of generating "infinite" recursion value and slowly grinding people out with fliers, fatties and Equipment. I generally don't play Windbrisk Heights because it's not a Plains and since my goal is to Emeria every game with 4x Emeria deck that necessitates running a lot of actual Plains. Myriad Landscape is fine since it represents multiple Plains itself but otherwise I'll go out of my way to avoid playing nonbasic lands. If I do splash at most I'll add some Bouncelands but everything else will be things like Hallowed Fountain and Prairie Stream that are Plains for Emeria.

Basically there's no real secret when it comes to Knights. None of the cards really scale that well into multiplayer and even though things like Knight Exemplar + Phyrexian Metamorph and Hero of Bladehold + Knight-Captain of Eos can generate decent value they don't blow you away with raw power. For me it's mostly about recognizing that your cards kinda suck and relying on the fact that you'll have to grind the table out with cheesy ultra-lategame resurrection sequences such as Emeria, the Sky Ruin -> Emeria Shepherd -> Sun Titan -> Myriad Landscape which triggers Emeria again, then when you sac your Myriad Landscape on the following turn Emeria Shepherd puts two more creatures back into play, on and on and on. You can often resurrect your entire GY (or huge portions of it) every 2-3 circuits so basically removal and interaction stops mattering unless it exiles. Then you just beat people down and/or smack them with Equipment or whatever to try and squeak out a win.

I appreciate the response, but it isn't really a knight deck anymore if you are playing Sun Titan emeria shepherdand karmic Guide

I completely get what you are going for, recursion engine to get the CA going in the later game to grind people out, something that isn't easy to do with Knights b/c most of them are weenies with protections or first strike.

In my experience, Blink Target rarely does much He's routinely killed and then the tokens do squat. He looks good on paper, but in practice he's disappointing. He can't attack into anything and not blinking him is just an overcosted knight. As a five drop I would rather use something with more beef or something with tricks. thalia's Lancers has the beef, but Knights generally aren't legendary so then you are looking at equipment or enchantments which can be OK but this isn't a Free Equip deck. Likewise, Lightwielder Paladin is beefy and I face a lot of rakdos colors in my meta.

I also face tribal and Riders of Gavony is a thing. I have tried Light from within and Concerted effort decks with varying success. I've done the Annoyed Tableand Wipealso with varying degrees of success. I tried out Pentarch Paladin who was OK, but again, you want to blink him for value if the board state changes.

Karmic Guide is fine but isn't a knight. I started to play Taxman and that actually worked quite well because the life loss is very real. The meta packs a lot more removal now so the card isn't as good as it was and the lifeloss for me to get it out early was often a non issue.

The decks wants to be aggressive, but it feels like it needs to play defensive. I feel like this type of deck is really just missing one or two good cards to put it back in a position where it gives people fits. Splashing blue (more than just for PMorph seems like the only place left for me to go. I guess shapeshifters and clones are what I am relegated too.....

One thing that I'll say is that there's no getting around the fact that Knight of Meadowgrain is a worthless multiplayer Magic card. I understand why it's in the deck and all but at the end of the day it's a Grizzly Bears with some flavour text and that will never feel like a good draw. It's these marginal inclusions that keep tribes such as Knights strictly in the Tier 2-3 category because they don't have nearly enough competitive options at basically any stage of the curve. Unfortunately there's nothing that I nor anyone else can do about this because we're all stuck using the same cards that Wizards has printed for us.

Quote from TechnicolorMage »

thalia's Lancers has the beef, but Knights generally aren't legendary so then you are looking at equipment or enchantments which can be OK but this isn't a Free Equip deck.

They fetch both Umezawa's Jitte and Godsend and the deck generally needs some Equipment to actually close the game out. There's also Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite who's a total house.

Quote from TechnicolorMage »

Splashing blue (more than just for PMorph seems like the only place left for me to go. I guess shapeshifters and clones are what I am relegated too.....

I mean it's hard to feel bad about playing a deck with Emeria, the Sky Ruin, Phantasmal Images and Sun Titans. Past a certain point you're ressing ~14 power every turn (Titan -> Image (-> Image) -> Knight) and that's a fine place to be if people are fielding a lot of removal. If you don't want to field Karmic Guide that's fine and even Emeria Shepherd isn't necessary by any means but Sun Titan is kinda crucial for White decks in my experience. This especially true for builds that omit Grasp of Fate and choose to employ something like Serenity instead. The ability to destroy all enchs/arts every few circuits is a huge game in my experience.

IMHO, Knight of the Reliquary is the #1 Knight out there. But it doesn't lend itself to a tribal sort of deck.

Quote from Prid3 »

I mean it's hard to feel bad about playing a deck with Emeria, the Sky Ruin, Phantasmal Images and Sun Titans.

Exactly.
Phantasmal Image also allows you to run Serenity & Fracturing Gust type sweepers, whereas Metamorph would require you to try Scourglass. In a previous build, my missus would repeatedly retrieve it c/o Academy Ruins, preserving the equipment brought out by SFM. It's pretty useful being able to sweep the field every couple of turns....

Quote from TechnicolorMage »

The decks wants to be aggressive, but it feels like it needs to play defensive. I feel like this type of deck is really just missing one or two good cards to put it back in a position where it gives people fits. Splashing blue (more than just for PMorph seems like the only place left for me to go. I guess shapeshifters and clones are what I am relegated too.....

So I checked out my wifes' deck, and having not played it myself for ages, it's not what I expected!

TBH, I'm disgusted Knight of the Hokey Pokey isn't in there anymore!

She USED to run Rite of Replication & Swiftfoot Boots, but Rite + Greaves = no-bo, so it looks like she has Clone & Metamorph instead with Greaves. Torpor Orb is a card she's used for ages to negate ETB triggers, think Gary, Primordials, Titans etc.
Worldslayer isn't consistently useful IME, but it's game ending when she works it.
I'm also surprised she's not running any answers to artifacts & enchantments, but oh well, not my deck!

I don't know if this decklist is gonna help at all - Prid3's idea's for a mono-W deck running bouncelands, Sun Titan, Myriad's is gonna be stronger. Armored Ascension attached to a double striker like Mirran Crusader is often enough to end players fairly consistently.

Tell your wife that I'm a fan of the maindeck Torpor Orbs haha. That deck reminds me of my old U/W Quicksilver Gargantuan knights deck where I'd copy a Mirran Crusader with it