So here is something I've been playing recently, I'm looking for advice on how to improve it.
The idea is simple - do almost everything on your opponents' turns, without having to rely on a permanent to achieve it like Leyline of Anticipation etc.
It does well at pissing off opponents. Stunt Double with Squire are beefy enough.
Rhystic Study is usually enough draw early, until everyone starts paying the '1' in the lategame, so perhaps I'll look at instant-speed draw spells to use if it bothers me.
A lack of longevity, and a lack of a mana-sink is something I'd like to change. Are there any decent ways to gain life with a deck like this that's trying to leave all it's mana open until just before your own turn?
I don't like having to use Stunt Double on opponents' life-linkers to survive...
So what else could I try? How could I improve this deck?
LOL, yeah I don't own any of them. Looks okay. Something repeatable would be better.
I might end up trying some Blind Obedience?
In truth, the deathtouch component of the deck is only there to ward off attacks, make everyone think twice about attacking me. But it's not necessary.
Restoration Angel would be an auto-include should deck space open up.
O.O? Bewteen Rev and Burgeoning you'll be drawing your entire deck and making room for Elixir of Immortality so that you can go infinite lol. It's a teensy tiny bit better than "ok."
I don't really see how the deck wins. I think flashing in deathtouch guys is fun but very bad. The point of having a deathtouch blocker is to motivate a potential attacker to attack elsewhere, both protecting you and giving you a card or life advantage. Doing it this way, when someone sees you with no blocker and attacks you, you say Aha! Im flashing in this guy. Then they both die and everyone at the table wins that trade except you two involved. And you still lose life if he attacked you with more than one creature. In this sense its just very bad 1 for 1 removal with a fun factor.
Would Draining Whelk be good enough?
It (potentially) hits harder than the snake.
I did consider that one, I'll probably get it in there.
I've never had much luck with the card in the past for some weird reason, even though on paper it looks like it should be great.
That's like saying "the drain from a Gary looks okay. Something repeatable would be better." You are WAY underestimating the power of this card.
Okay, fair enough - but that's not exactly comparing same for same.
IME, X-spells can often be in the win-more category when they don't influence the game-state. I've not seen this card played before, nor in Legacy play either.
I'm willing to happily admit I'm off with this one.
I'd like to hear why you have chosen to run 22 lands and 4 Burgerdoings and what kind of lands you have actually chosen.
I'll just be running whatever I have that isn't devoted to other decks, so probz a mix of basics and stuff like Sunpetal Grove, Halimar Depths etc. The number isn't final, I'll probably up the land count to 24.
I don't really see how the deck wins. I think flashing in deathtouch guys is fun but very bad.
I won't argue this one. It IS suboptimal for sure, but then this is meant to be a fun deck.
FWIW, I like a few decks that aren't all about winning, but just to create fun situations, or even troll people.
The deathtouch guys are all about Thornbite Staff.
The deck wins by flashing in a massive Selfless Squire or using Stunt Double to copy something massive and swinging.
I'm not at all attached to the deathtouch aspect of the deck.
I've been contemplating omitting deathtouch for flicker-style creatures like Restoration Angel, possibly Flickerwisp too, to abuse perms like Aura Shards(when did this card suddenly get expensive?) & Cream of the Crop. Of course flicker would require some non-flash value creatures with decent ETB effects.
That's like saying "the drain from a Gary looks okay. Something repeatable would be better." You are WAY underestimating the power of this card.
Okay, fair enough - but that's not exactly comparing same for same.
IME, X-spells can often be in the win-more category when they don't influence the game-state. I've not seen this card played before, nor in Legacy play either.
I'm willing to happily admit I'm off with this one.
How many X-spells period do you see frequently played in Legacy? I could count them on one hand. That's not exactly comparing "same for same" either. You wouldn't see this deck in a Legacy tourney either... Rev is played in Modern in UWR and UW Control lists, and was played HEAVILY in standard when it was legal. I also don't really get the argument that drawing your entire deck and gaining hordes of life doesn't effect the game state. An instant speed "draw X gain x" spell hardly maintains status quo...
That's like saying "the drain from a Gary looks okay. Something repeatable would be better." You are WAY underestimating the power of this card.
Okay, fair enough - but that's not exactly comparing same for same.
IME, X-spells can often be in the win-more category when they don't influence the game-state. I've not seen this card played before, nor in Legacy play either.
I'm willing to happily admit I'm off with this one.
How many X-spells period do you see frequently played in Legacy? I could count them on one hand. That's not exactly comparing "same for same" either. You wouldn't see this deck in a Legacy tourney either... Rev is played in Modern in UWR and UW Control lists, and was played HEAVILY in standard when it was legal. I also don't really get the argument that drawing your entire deck and gaining hordes of life doesn't effect the game state. An instant speed "draw X gain x" spell hardly maintains status quo...
He's stated that he's never played with or against the card which is the only plausible explanation for his hesitance to field it. I can't think of any other reasonable argument to exclude it from a UW Control deck looking for additional lifegain and lategame inevitability. The card is busted in decks with 4x Burgeoning and 8x Bouncelands because you'll legit be drawing your entire deck every ~3 circuits. This is one of those rare occasions where Elixir of Immortality is actually worth running because it's easily the best win condition in the game when you're drawing 20 cards and gaining 20 life every turn.
If you're worried about falling behind on board then jam 4x *** (any variant would work fine) and call it a day. I'd also stop knocking Rev until you actually try it. The card is bonkers. You say that you want something "repeatable" but that's only because you didn't play when every Control deck had 4x Rev and you won all of your games going infinite with Elixir of Immortality and drawing 20 cards every other turn. Play your 4x Burgeoning with 8x Bouncelands and 4x Rev and come back once you've decided that you'll never play your UW Control decks any other way.
I'm willing to happily admit I'm off with this one.
Bear in mind my above statement guys.
I'm not really hesitant to use Sphinx's Revelation, simply looking at options, it is a $5 card after all.
But if you guys are absolute that this is the only option I should consider, I'm fine with that.
So I'm thinking a manabase of Seaside Citadel, 6-8 Bounce lands & others for 24 total, with 3-4 Burgeoning
I want to play mostly on my opponents turns, and flicker-effects at instant speed look good.
The idea is simple - do almost everything on your opponents' turns, without having to rely on a permanent to achieve it like Leyline of Anticipation etc.
4 Burgeoning
3 Ambush Viper
4 Winged Coatl
1 Acidic Slime
2 Thornbite Staff
4 Stunt Double
4 Selfless Squire
1 Masako the Humorless
2 Deadeye Navigator
3 Aura Shards
4 Rhystic Study
It does well at pissing off opponents. Stunt Double with Squire are beefy enough.
Rhystic Study is usually enough draw early, until everyone starts paying the '1' in the lategame, so perhaps I'll look at instant-speed draw spells to use if it bothers me.
Previously I've played this deck as UG, using Deadeye Navigator, Primal Forcemage, Caller of the Claw & Cloudthresher. As I've only recently started using white, I've not tried Restoration Angel or Stonecloaker before, but I imagine they're worth a look.
A lack of longevity, and a lack of a mana-sink is something I'd like to change. Are there any decent ways to gain life with a deck like this that's trying to leave all it's mana open until just before your own turn?
I don't like having to use Stunt Double on opponents' life-linkers to survive...
So what else could I try? How could I improve this deck?
Cheers
SMH Sphinx's Revelation .
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
LOL, yeah I don't own any of them. Looks okay. Something repeatable would be better.
I might end up trying some Blind Obedience?
In truth, the deathtouch component of the deck is only there to ward off attacks, make everyone think twice about attacking me. But it's not necessary.
Restoration Angel would be an auto-include should deck space open up.
O.O? Bewteen Rev and Burgeoning you'll be drawing your entire deck and making room for Elixir of Immortality so that you can go infinite lol. It's a teensy tiny bit better than "ok."
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
It (potentially) hits harder than the snake.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
That's like saying "the drain from a Gary looks okay. Something repeatable would be better." You are WAY underestimating the power of this card.
My Powered 630 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
I did consider that one, I'll probably get it in there.
I've never had much luck with the card in the past for some weird reason, even though on paper it looks like it should be great.
Okay, fair enough - but that's not exactly comparing same for same.
IME, X-spells can often be in the win-more category when they don't influence the game-state. I've not seen this card played before, nor in Legacy play either.
I'm willing to happily admit I'm off with this one.
That looks good, I forgot about that one.
I'll just be running whatever I have that isn't devoted to other decks, so probz a mix of basics and stuff like Sunpetal Grove, Halimar Depths etc. The number isn't final, I'll probably up the land count to 24.
I won't argue this one. It IS suboptimal for sure, but then this is meant to be a fun deck.
FWIW, I like a few decks that aren't all about winning, but just to create fun situations, or even troll people.
The deathtouch guys are all about Thornbite Staff.
The deck wins by flashing in a massive Selfless Squire or using Stunt Double to copy something massive and swinging.
I'm not at all attached to the deathtouch aspect of the deck.
I've been contemplating omitting deathtouch for flicker-style creatures like Restoration Angel, possibly Flickerwisp too, to abuse perms like Aura Shards (when did this card suddenly get expensive?) & Cream of the Crop. Of course flicker would require some non-flash value creatures with decent ETB effects.
How many X-spells period do you see frequently played in Legacy? I could count them on one hand. That's not exactly comparing "same for same" either. You wouldn't see this deck in a Legacy tourney either... Rev is played in Modern in UWR and UW Control lists, and was played HEAVILY in standard when it was legal. I also don't really get the argument that drawing your entire deck and gaining hordes of life doesn't effect the game state. An instant speed "draw X gain x" spell hardly maintains status quo...
My Powered 630 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
He's stated that he's never played with or against the card which is the only plausible explanation for his hesitance to field it. I can't think of any other reasonable argument to exclude it from a UW Control deck looking for additional lifegain and lategame inevitability. The card is busted in decks with 4x Burgeoning and 8x Bouncelands because you'll legit be drawing your entire deck every ~3 circuits. This is one of those rare occasions where Elixir of Immortality is actually worth running because it's easily the best win condition in the game when you're drawing 20 cards and gaining 20 life every turn.
If you're worried about falling behind on board then jam 4x *** (any variant would work fine) and call it a day. I'd also stop knocking Rev until you actually try it. The card is bonkers. You say that you want something "repeatable" but that's only because you didn't play when every Control deck had 4x Rev and you won all of your games going infinite with Elixir of Immortality and drawing 20 cards every other turn. Play your 4x Burgeoning with 8x Bouncelands and 4x Rev and come back once you've decided that you'll never play your UW Control decks any other way.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Bear in mind my above statement guys.
I'm not really hesitant to use Sphinx's Revelation, simply looking at options, it is a $5 card after all.
But if you guys are absolute that this is the only option I should consider, I'm fine with that.
So I'm thinking a manabase of Seaside Citadel, 6-8 Bounce lands & others for 24 total, with 3-4 Burgeoning
I want to play mostly on my opponents turns, and flicker-effects at instant speed look good.
How's this?
1 Masako the Humorless
4 Mulldrifter
4 Mystic Snake
4 Restoration Angel
4 Selfless Squire
4 Stunt Double
3 Aura Shards
3 Burgeoning
3 Crystal Shard
1 Elixir of Immortality
3 Sphinx's Revelation