Obviously this is just one of many ways to build multiplayer cloudpost decks... I'm looking for ideas here. Sadly, I do not own Candelabra of Tawnos, so that's off the table.
Lots of mana isn't a theme... So: how do you want to win?
Nitpick: you posted an 11-post list.
That said:
You'll probably want to run some card draw. If it's mono green maybe that new sorcery with free 5-mana spell or just Shamanic Revelation.
Furthermore, personally I love Steel Hellkite in this kind of deck.
Preferably supported by a Rogue's Passage of course.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In magic there's Harry Dresden, Fizban, Sethra Lavode, Dorotea Senjak and me...
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
That said:
You'll probably want to run some card draw. If it's mono green maybe that new sorcery with free 5-mana spell or just Shamanic Revelation.
Furthermore, personally I love Steel Hellkite in this kind of deck.
Preferably supported by a Rogue's Passage of course.
It's funny... I literally almost wrote "Thijs will almost undoubtedly recommend Steel Hellkite..." now I wish I did.
That's 8 cards short.
You could add Eldrazi, Primeval Titan, mana-sinks, more Depths, protection like Elephant Grass or whatever.
For card draw/removal, Decree of Pain works with large mana FWIW. The new card Planar Bridge could fit here too.
I like the list, Prid3... but I have a few questions.
1) From my talks with several 12-Post players I know (and believe it or not, I know some...), I have been told repeatedly that since Vesuva can be a dead card in your opening hand, it's not particularly optimal to run the full 4. The theory obviously is that the more you run, you run a higher risk of taking a mulligan. This is in the realm of duels, though... have you found that, with the free mulligan in multiplayer, you don't really have that issue a statistically significant amount of the time?
2) I like the consistency of mono-green, but was wondering about a light black splash for removal/combo hate. A couple Toxic Deluge and Collective Brutality would go a long way to shoring up those MUs I think. Elephant Grass gets me through early turns, for sure, but I don't know that it will do enough past turn 4 or so, which is when I will care about creatures (if I'm going to care about them at all).
1) From my talks with several 12-Post players I know (and believe it or not, I know some...), I have been told repeatedly that since Vesuva can be a dead card in your opening hand, it's not particularly optimal to run the full 4. The theory obviously is that the more you run, you run a higher risk of taking a mulligan. This is in the realm of duels, though... have you found that, with the free mulligan in multiplayer, you don't really have that issue a statistically significant amount of the time?
I typically run 2 but you said 12-Post so I just posted the full 4.
2) I like the consistency of mono-green, but was wondering about a light black splash for removal/combo hate. A couple Toxic Deluge and Collective Brutality would go a long way to shoring up those MUs I think. Elephant Grass gets me through early turns, for sure, but I don't know that it will do enough past turn 4 or so, which is when I will care about creatures (if I'm going to care about them at all).
If you're talking about turns 4+ I don't see why you wouldn't simply run more All is Dusts or Ugins.
I typically run 2 but you said 12-Post so I just posted the full 4.
Sorry for the confusion... the archetype is called "12-Post" but regularly doesn't play with all 12, so I didn't think anything of it. But yes, I don't need all 12 Posts. To be fair, I did post my proposed post package in the OP, which was only 2 Vesuvas.
2) I like the consistency of mono-green, but was wondering about a light black splash for removal/combo hate. A couple Toxic Deluge and Collective Brutality would go a long way to shoring up those MUs I think. Elephant Grass gets me through early turns, for sure, but I don't know that it will do enough past turn 4 or so, which is when I will care about creatures (if I'm going to care about them at all).
If you're talking about turns 4+ I don't see why you wouldn't simply run more All is Dusts or Ugins.
My worry is other colorless creatures after turn 4. All is Dust and Ugins deal with almost everything, but either don't deal with (in the case of All is Dust) or have a very hard time dealing with things like Blightsteel Colossus, other Eldrazi, etc... I was figuring I would like to have a couple outs to those kinds of issues in case my deck needed an extra turn or two to turn the corner. Possibly that's hedging too much... ?
FWIW, my list doesn't have Eye of Ugin. Thijs1301, you and I are on the same page.
The reason I suggested black? An optimized Dark Depths deck, and 12-post decks, both tend to run the same setup cards.
Given how small a 12-post & Dark Depths package can be, It's not a stretch to run both in the same deck provided you can support BB for Hexmage.
I don't run Vesuva due to how Stage works with Depths.
The rest of the deck choices are down to what cards you can afford, how oppressive your meta might be, and personal choice or style.
Running a single Eye of Ugin (and a handful of colourless threats) in this shell is easy to support should you wish to take it that direction.
Depths requires less mana to create it's indestructible one-hit-kill threat, and I have 14 land-tutors & Hexmage that can enable it quickly.
Depths is more explosive than typical 12-post without Candelabra, so that's why I suggested it.
BTW, Not of this world is a very useful card to use with Marit Lage and Eldrazi alike.
My worry is other colorless creatures after turn 4. All is Dust and Ugins deal with almost everything, but either don't deal with (in the case of All is Dust) or have a very hard time dealing with things like Blightsteel Colossus, other Eldrazi, etc... I was figuring I would like to have a couple outs to those kinds of issues in case my deck needed an extra turn or two to turn the corner. Possibly that's hedging too much... ?
I mean that's what cards like Ulamog and Emrakul are for and you should be producing more Eldrazi faster than anyone else.
The reason I suggested black? An optimized Dark Depths deck, and 12-post decks, both tend to run the same setup cards.
Why bother with 12-Post and Exsanguinate if you want to build an "optimized" DD deck? Neither would ever be present in an "optimal" build. Moreover, Primetime can already fetch DD + Stage at basically no opportunity cost and so I fail to see why the deck would need to support a ton of BB spells and whatnot. If anything you can just play 4x Primtime and 4x Green Sun's Zenith and reliably assemble your combo that way while still being able to play full-on 12-Post.
This deck works well... I remember a 6-players game with this deck where 4 of the other 5 players literally spent 2 hours fighting against this deck...I ended up losing in the end but I was able to last for 2 hours with 4 players doing all they can to disrupt my game ;P.
1) The effect of Amulet of vigor adds up...meaning that you untap whatever comes into play tapped once for each amulet you have. With Fastbond and Staff of Domination, this can mean infinite life, card drawing, etc... with Primeval Titan, the lands you bring to play enter the battlefield untapped and give tons of mana if you have 2 amulets in play
2) Thran Dynamo + Phyrexian Metamorph makes you jump from 4 mana to 10 mana...let them waste their ressources trying to deal with your Cloudpost...you dont really need them.
3) Steely Resolve is there to protect the Eldrazis against Ray of Command-like effects...this deck can crumble pretty quickly if people make a habit of stealing my creatures.
Why bother with 12-Post and Exsanguinate if you want to build an "optimized" DD deck?
I didn't say that.
You're hung up on Exsanguinate. Fine by me, don't play it then.
Our OP asked for suggestions. Would you rather I just copy/paste your post?
Like I said, the setup cards - Crop Rotation, Sylvan Scrying, Expedition Map - are the same.
Packing in 12-post and some DD/Hexmage is only a small commitment that allows you to go different ways to achieve massive creatures.
There is still plenty of room for Eye of Ugin and 3+ colourless threats. How our OP approaches this is up to them.
Exsanguinate - A BB spell that Eye of Ugin can't tutor for and that won't win the game on its own? Why would we be suggesting it?
I regularly play 5-8 player games, so even if X=4, that's decent.
Given how much I've read you gushing about effects like Exsanguinate & Gary before, I'm kinda surprised you state it won't win you a game.
I doubt that it's optimal but it's what I enjoy jamming.
Word.
I've played DD/Hexmage/Stage alongside 8/12-post to good effect in the past. My list above isn't optimal either, but this isn't competitive, it's MP.
If we're aiming for large mana with BB on tap, Exsanguinate is simply on of a few useful MP-focussed cards to consider.
My worry is other colorless creatures after turn 4. All is Dust and Ugins deal with almost everything, but either don't deal with (in the case of All is Dust) or have a very hard time dealing with things like Blightsteel Colossus, other Eldrazi, etc... I was figuring I would like to have a couple outs to those kinds of issues in case my deck needed an extra turn or two to turn the corner. Possibly that's hedging too much... ?
I mean that's what cards like Ulamog and Emrakul are for and you should be producing more Eldrazi faster than anyone else.
That seems fair. I do like the consistency of a mono-green list.
50% of cards is dead in your opening hand. What hand are you expecting to win with that has no Vesuva targets anyway?
50% of the cards in my opening hand are dead? How do you figure that?
The point with Vesuva is that running a playset increases your chance of an opening hand with multiple Vesuva and no targets, which would be a mulligan. Thespian's Stage, while not ideal, is not strictly dead without any targets, so including one over, say, Vesuva #3 actually decreases the chance that you will mulligan any given opening hand. I'm not concerned with not having enough mana running only 2x Vesuva either... so many land tutors. I just actively don't want to see multiples in my opening hand.
The point with Vesuva is that running a playset increases your chance of an opening hand with multiple Vesuva and no targets, which would be a mulligan. Thespian's Stage, while not ideal, is not strictly dead without any targets, so including one over, say, Vesuva #3 actually decreases the chance that you will mulligan any given opening hand. I'm not concerned with not having enough mana running only 2x Vesuva either... so many land tutors. I just actively don't want to see multiples in my opening hand.
I mean the fact that Vesuva can target any land from any players means that it's virtually never going to be stone dead. I've played with 0, 2, 4 Vesuvas and everything in between and I can't recall having ever lost a game because I drew too many. Worse comes to worst you simply copy someone's Gx land and move on with your life. Not ideal but hardly game-losing/mulligan forcing.
I'm running 4 Vesuva and never had any trouble. Worst case, I would copy an opponent's land...hopefully a Forest to help me cast my Primeval Titan. Either way, I can always bounce my Vesuva later, I play 8 Bounce lands in the deck.
I just don't understand why you would play so many ETBT lands... I'm not willing to sacrifice that much speed. There are good reasons why the top 12-Post players play between 2-3 Vesuva effects, and literally zero bouncelands/temples...
Top players play in top metas.
In my (casual/fair deck) meta running 12-post with bouncelands is competitive enough.
So... how cutthroat is your meta?
(I often play 4x CP, 4x Vesuva plus bouncelands and utility lands, works pretty fine. And in another deck I'll run the Urza-tron when I play more than one -nonblack- big mana deck.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In magic there's Harry Dresden, Fizban, Sethra Lavode, Dorotea Senjak and me...
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
I just don't understand why you would play so many ETBT lands... I'm not willing to sacrifice that much speed. There are good reasons why the top 12-Post players play between 2-3 Vesuva effects, and literally zero bouncelands/temples...
You don't have to look very hard to find examples of people playing the full 4 and I'm way too lazy to actually scroll through multiple pages of tournament reports to find more examples. I'm not saying that you're required to but it's not as though 4x Vesuva is unheard of. I agree with you on the Bounceland point, I don't understand why they're being lauded either, but when it comes to Vesuva running 4 is perfectly acceptable. Again though, I'm not going to waste any time trying to get you to play 4 instead of 2 because I really don't think that it matters much one way or another. Even if more decks run 2 Vesuvas instead of 4 (entirely possible) the card gains a lot of additional value in MP given its ability to copy any land from any player and given that players are more likely to run "special" lands in MP than in duels. In that sense it's ostensibly a wash as far I'm concerned and I highly doubt that your games will be won or lost based on the number of Vesuvas that you elect to field.
Powerful in the 12-Post archetype, and you actively want some number of them
Not optimal to see multiples in opening hand
A playset is not necessary for the deck to be explosive and oppressive
Items 2+3 mean that I want 2 or 3 maximum... not that 4 is bad, but I find the logic behind having 2 or 3 to be sound, and optimal.
Thespian's Stage is a Vesuva effect that: isn't "lost" (i.e. it can still copy a Cloudpost) if it is played T1, is still broken with Dark Depths, can be tapped to target opponent's Dark Depths if that comes up, but is slower than Vesuva.
Items 4+5 mean that it seems the logic behind playing 2 Vesuva and 1 Thespian's Stage is sound, and those numbers seems optimal to me. Again... not that I think playing more is wrong or bad, but I feel it opens you up to more sub-optimal starting grips, and therefore it's not where I want to be.
Does this seem fair? I get your point that they gain value in a multiplayer setting, but again, since they aren't needed, it seems it would be more optimal to trim down.
Bouncelands in this type of deck are probably sub-optimal but they are manafixing and two mana per land.
Though you might want to run Patron of the Moon for extra land drops.
Still, they are probably sub optimal here.
I'm pretty sold on them but that's probably disproportionate in relation to their actual worth.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In magic there's Harry Dresden, Fizban, Sethra Lavode, Dorotea Senjak and me...
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
4x Glimmerpost
2x Vesuva
1x Thespian's Stage
Feel like 4x Crop Rotation should be an auto include, as well as some number of Expedition Map. Prime Time seems like an auto include as well. And once you go with him, some number of utility lands (Dark Depths, Karakas, Glacial Chasm, Eye of Ugin, Cavern of Souls, Bojuka Bog, Kessig Wolf Run, etc...) seem good.
Payoffs seem fairly obvious with this shell too: Eldrazi, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Wurmcoil Engines, Platinum Emperion, Platinum Angel, Blightsteel Colossus, etc... list goes on and on.
Obviously this is just one of many ways to build multiplayer cloudpost decks... I'm looking for ideas here. Sadly, I do not own Candelabra of Tawnos, so that's off the table.
Anyway... curious what you all think.
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
Nitpick: you posted an 11-post list.
That said:
You'll probably want to run some card draw. If it's mono green maybe that new sorcery with free 5-mana spell or just Shamanic Revelation.
Furthermore, personally I love Steel Hellkite in this kind of deck.
Preferably supported by a Rogue's Passage of course.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
I'm not throwing a birthday party for my 4-year-old daughter... why do I need a theme?
It's funny... I literally almost wrote "Thijs will almost undoubtedly recommend Steel Hellkite..." now I wish I did.
I was figuring I would run Kozilek, the Great Distortion for card draw - him + Karakas is a beating.
For the early game, I can easily see adding Misty Rainforest and Brainstorm.
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
10x Forest
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
4x Vesuva
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Karakas
1x Dark Depths
1x Thespian's Stage
4x Primeval Titan
4x Sylvan Primordial
1x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells (21)
4x Elephant Grass
4x Crop Rotation
4x Expedition Map
2x Ancient Stirrings
4x Sylvan Scrying
1x All is Dust
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
I usually play something close to this. I doubt that it's optimal but it's what I enjoy jamming.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Creatures (17)
4x Overgrown Battlement
4x Wall of Roots
4x Axebane Guardian
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2x Spawnsire of Ulamog
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Spells (22)
2x Ancient Stirrings
4x Crop Rotation
2x Moment's Peace
4x Prophetic Prism
1x Doubling Cube
4x Sylvan Scrying
2x Beast Within
1x Asceticism
2x Ezuri's Predation
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
10x Forest
4x Glimmerpost
2x Thespian's Stage
Outside Eldrazi Package (23)
1x All is Dust
20x Ulamog's Crusher
1x It that Betrays
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
And since when isn't Magic a party?
(-:
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
So, you have the aim of being BRUTAL without the fear of losing friends?
Something like this?
4 Glimmerpost
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Dark Depths
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Expedition Map
2 Into the North
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Exsanguinate
That's 8 cards short.
You could add Eldrazi, Primeval Titan, mana-sinks, more Depths, protection like Elephant Grass or whatever.
For card draw/removal, Decree of Pain works with large mana FWIW. The new card Planar Bridge could fit here too.
A BB spell that Eye of Ugin can't tutor for and that won't win the game on its own? Why would we be suggesting it?
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
1) From my talks with several 12-Post players I know (and believe it or not, I know some...), I have been told repeatedly that since Vesuva can be a dead card in your opening hand, it's not particularly optimal to run the full 4. The theory obviously is that the more you run, you run a higher risk of taking a mulligan. This is in the realm of duels, though... have you found that, with the free mulligan in multiplayer, you don't really have that issue a statistically significant amount of the time?
2) I like the consistency of mono-green, but was wondering about a light black splash for removal/combo hate. A couple Toxic Deluge and Collective Brutality would go a long way to shoring up those MUs I think. Elephant Grass gets me through early turns, for sure, but I don't know that it will do enough past turn 4 or so, which is when I will care about creatures (if I'm going to care about them at all).
Thoughts?
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
I typically run 2 but you said 12-Post so I just posted the full 4.
If you're talking about turns 4+ I don't see why you wouldn't simply run more All is Dusts or Ugins.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Sorry for the confusion... the archetype is called "12-Post" but regularly doesn't play with all 12, so I didn't think anything of it. But yes, I don't need all 12 Posts. To be fair, I did post my proposed post package in the OP, which was only 2 Vesuvas.
My worry is other colorless creatures after turn 4. All is Dust and Ugins deal with almost everything, but either don't deal with (in the case of All is Dust) or have a very hard time dealing with things like Blightsteel Colossus, other Eldrazi, etc... I was figuring I would like to have a couple outs to those kinds of issues in case my deck needed an extra turn or two to turn the corner. Possibly that's hedging too much... ?
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
FWIW, my list doesn't have Eye of Ugin. Thijs1301, you and I are on the same page.
The reason I suggested black? An optimized Dark Depths deck, and 12-post decks, both tend to run the same setup cards.
Given how small a 12-post & Dark Depths package can be, It's not a stretch to run both in the same deck provided you can support BB for Hexmage.
I don't run Vesuva due to how Stage works with Depths.
The rest of the deck choices are down to what cards you can afford, how oppressive your meta might be, and personal choice or style.
Running a single Eye of Ugin (and a handful of colourless threats) in this shell is easy to support should you wish to take it that direction.
Depths requires less mana to create it's indestructible one-hit-kill threat, and I have 14 land-tutors & Hexmage that can enable it quickly.
Depths is more explosive than typical 12-post without Candelabra, so that's why I suggested it.
BTW, Not of this world is a very useful card to use with Marit Lage and Eldrazi alike.
I mean that's what cards like Ulamog and Emrakul are for and you should be producing more Eldrazi faster than anyone else.
Why bother with 12-Post and Exsanguinate if you want to build an "optimized" DD deck? Neither would ever be present in an "optimal" build. Moreover, Primetime can already fetch DD + Stage at basically no opportunity cost and so I fail to see why the deck would need to support a ton of BB spells and whatnot. If anything you can just play 4x Primtime and 4x Green Sun's Zenith and reliably assemble your combo that way while still being able to play full-on 12-Post.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
This deck works well... I remember a 6-players game with this deck where 4 of the other 5 players literally spent 2 hours fighting against this deck...I ended up losing in the end but I was able to last for 2 hours with 4 players doing all they can to disrupt my game ;P.
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Primeval Titan
2 Duplicant
2 Artisan of Kozilek
4 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Amulet of Vigor
4 Thran Dynamo
2 Staff of Domination
1 Tower of Fortunes
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
Enchantments (3)
2 Steely Resolve
1 Fastbond
1 Karn Liberated
Spells (1)
1 All is Dust
Lands (22)
1 Maze of Ith
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
4 Simic Growth Chamber
4 Gruul Turf
The basics of the deck:
1) The effect of Amulet of vigor adds up...meaning that you untap whatever comes into play tapped once for each amulet you have. With Fastbond and Staff of Domination, this can mean infinite life, card drawing, etc... with Primeval Titan, the lands you bring to play enter the battlefield untapped and give tons of mana if you have 2 amulets in play
2) Thran Dynamo + Phyrexian Metamorph makes you jump from 4 mana to 10 mana...let them waste their ressources trying to deal with your Cloudpost...you dont really need them.
3) Steely Resolve is there to protect the Eldrazis against Ray of Command-like effects...this deck can crumble pretty quickly if people make a habit of stealing my creatures.
I didn't say that.
You're hung up on Exsanguinate. Fine by me, don't play it then.
Our OP asked for suggestions. Would you rather I just copy/paste your post?
Like I said, the setup cards - Crop Rotation, Sylvan Scrying, Expedition Map - are the same.
Packing in 12-post and some DD/Hexmage is only a small commitment that allows you to go different ways to achieve massive creatures.
There is still plenty of room for Eye of Ugin and 3+ colourless threats. How our OP approaches this is up to them.
I regularly play 5-8 player games, so even if X=4, that's decent.
Given how much I've read you gushing about effects like Exsanguinate & Gary before, I'm kinda surprised you state it won't win you a game.
Word.
I've played DD/Hexmage/Stage alongside 8/12-post to good effect in the past. My list above isn't optimal either, but this isn't competitive, it's MP.
If we're aiming for large mana with BB on tap, Exsanguinate is simply on of a few useful MP-focussed cards to consider.
That seems fair. I do like the consistency of a mono-green list.
50% of the cards in my opening hand are dead? How do you figure that?
The point with Vesuva is that running a playset increases your chance of an opening hand with multiple Vesuva and no targets, which would be a mulligan. Thespian's Stage, while not ideal, is not strictly dead without any targets, so including one over, say, Vesuva #3 actually decreases the chance that you will mulligan any given opening hand. I'm not concerned with not having enough mana running only 2x Vesuva either... so many land tutors. I just actively don't want to see multiples in my opening hand.
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
I mean the fact that Vesuva can target any land from any players means that it's virtually never going to be stone dead. I've played with 0, 2, 4 Vesuvas and everything in between and I can't recall having ever lost a game because I drew too many. Worse comes to worst you simply copy someone's Gx land and move on with your life. Not ideal but hardly game-losing/mulligan forcing.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
In my (casual/fair deck) meta running 12-post with bouncelands is competitive enough.
So... how cutthroat is your meta?
(I often play 4x CP, 4x Vesuva plus bouncelands and utility lands, works pretty fine. And in another deck I'll run the Urza-tron when I play more than one -nonblack- big mana deck.)
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14438&d=286423&f=LE
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14245&d=284970&f=LE
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14011&d=283107&f=LE
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11986&d=268696&f=LE
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11945&d=268383&f=LE
You don't have to look very hard to find examples of people playing the full 4 and I'm way too lazy to actually scroll through multiple pages of tournament reports to find more examples. I'm not saying that you're required to but it's not as though 4x Vesuva is unheard of. I agree with you on the Bounceland point, I don't understand why they're being lauded either, but when it comes to Vesuva running 4 is perfectly acceptable. Again though, I'm not going to waste any time trying to get you to play 4 instead of 2 because I really don't think that it matters much one way or another. Even if more decks run 2 Vesuvas instead of 4 (entirely possible) the card gains a lot of additional value in MP given its ability to copy any land from any player and given that players are more likely to run "special" lands in MP than in duels. In that sense it's ostensibly a wash as far I'm concerned and I highly doubt that your games will be won or lost based on the number of Vesuvas that you elect to field.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
My thoughts on Vesuva:
My thoughts on bouncelands/temples:
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
Though you might want to run Patron of the Moon for extra land drops.
Still, they are probably sub optimal here.
I'm pretty sold on them but that's probably disproportionate in relation to their actual worth.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.