So I wanna blast everyone.
I've tried decks like these before, and they've never quite worked, but here's where it's going so far.
I want to improve it, any and all advice welcome!
45 cards so far. I haven't decided whether I'm aiming for totally creatureless or not.
8 or 10 Post is something I've considered, but it generally requires some support. I wanna burn people, so I might just go with 4 Myriad Landscape, 2-3 Valakut & Mountains. Burning Sands is a card I'm considering, especially if I end up going creatureless. How good is it in practice without any support? (think Ratchet Bomb etc.) I'm also considering Nevinyrral's Disk, but obviously Sands and Disk exclude each other.
Other cards I'm considering; Acidic Soil, Repercussion, Mass Mutiny, Insurrection
Protection;
3 Madcap Experiment, 1 Platinum Emperion, 2 Glacial Chasm is something I'm tossing up.
I'm not 100% keen on Emperion, as stealing/cloning it can hurt my gameplan.
X-spells don't like Chasm generally, so I'm on the fence here as I can't afford Gauntlet of Might.
I like the idea of dropping a Chasm and banging burn-creature/player spells though.
What other options are there here?
Reason for some choices; Price of Progress isn't always a stellar performer in my group, as we have quite a few decks running around with minimal non-basics. I've preferred to go with damage to opponents & creatures, so no Flame Rift or Pyroclasm. Volcanic Fallout often doesn't do enough. I've gone with few creatures, but Boros Reckoner may get in there in some number, or perhaps something with indestructible that could hold the fort like Manor Gargoyle.
Slagstorm is here over Flamebreak, as I have to deal with some opponents consisting of exclusively flying creatures.
Splash?
I've considered a blue splash for draw & control perms like Pendrell Mists, Propaganda etc.
Black has a lot of things that might be useful.
Yeah good call on Goggles, I'd forgotten about that one.
Burning Wish is just one of those cards. I'll have to get my retort ready, "Would you like cheese to go with that whine?"
Yeah I think I may pass on wish.
I think creatureless is the way to go if I'm gonna go with posts & Burning Sands. Expedition Map allows me to use less Glacial Chasm, and makes it easier to grab them, helping all these player damage cards to be one-sided.
So long as Chasm is more consistent, I can forget about Madcap/Emperion.
Yeah good call on Goggles, I'd forgotten about that one.
Burning Wish is just one of those cards. I'll have to get my retort ready, "Would you like cheese to go with that whine?"
Yeah I think I may pass on wish.
I think creatureless is the way to go if I'm gonna go with posts & Burning Sands. Expedition Map allows me to use less Glacial Chasm, and makes it easier to grab them, helping all these player damage cards to be one-sided.
So long as Chasm is more consistent, I can forget about Madcap/Emperion.
Sulfuric Vortex could easily be Slagstorm 3 & 4, but stopping lifegain has to be in there.
If you deck has this much mass removal then Humble Defector is almost strictly better than Tormenting Voice. You're going to *** on turn 3-4 anyways so why not field the 2-for-1 that also threatens to block? If you deck had multiple Goggles then maybe but if you're only going to run 1 then I'd rather have the Defector. Just so we're clear worst-case scenario you cast it on turn 2 and then don't activate it until turn 3-4 when you're ready to clear the board. Best case you negotiate with someone who's having a rough game and offer to trade back and forth. Turn 3 you tap it and hand it over to someone, they tap it and ship it back to you, you tap it and ship it someone and then clear the board. Your 2 mana nets you 3 cards when that type of exchange occurs which is obviously fantastic. Even if you have to discard cards it still figs you into Posts.
FWIW I don't think that Red has to play an all-in Burn strategy with this style of deck. You can play a slower Control deck with Subterranean Tremors and Anger of the Gods/Slagstorm as removal that doesn't deal itself a bunch of damage. In the midgame you can rely on Outpost Siege for card advantage while you dig into Posts to fuel powerful bombs such as Inferno Titan and Oblivion Sower. Eventually you can "big mana" out haymakers such as Comet Storm, Insurrection, 10+ CMC bombs, etc.
A card that I really like in Mana Geyser decks is Volcanic Vision. It's a "free" Plague Wind of sorts and can sometimes even net mana depending on the stage of the game/number of players. It's obviously less relevant in a creatureless deck but I don't think that you need to go all-in on the burn aspect.
If you're going to play a creatureless burn deck then 4x Repercussion is a must. It's the only legitimate reason to omit creature entirely IMO.
In this type of build, I definitely agree with adding Repercussion. Perhaps in the Mana Barbs/Burning Sands slots? Those seem like a lot of mana investment right around when you'll hit that point of needing to directly burn out the table that has temporarily teamed up against you.
In this type of build, I definitely agree with adding Repercussion. Perhaps in the Mana Barbs/Burning Sands slots? Those seem like a lot of mana investment right around when you'll hit that point of needing to directly burn out the table that has temporarily teamed up against you.
I think that you're being too kind. Manabarbs is fantastic if you're curving 1 drop -> 2 drop -> 1 drop + 2 drop -> the rest of your cheap spells -> Manabarbs. You're playing a ~22 land deck with no mana sinks and no cards that cost more than 4. This is a deck with 50x Fireball that actively wants to spend 10 mana every turn. Barbs is actively bad at best.
That was the reason for Glacial Chasm - my group does field answers to lands but it's uncommon. That said, you're both right, 'barbs isn't good.
RE: Chasm, the number of them will probably change as I test the deck.
FYI - Repercussion with Blasphemous Act, Pyroclasm-types, I do come up against creatureless decks.
My group is mainly creature based, so Repz should be a fairly safe bet with this much *burn everything*.
4 Song, 4 Geyser, 8 Post is a lot of mana potential. 8 Sorcery-Draw with Goggles looks good. Will be a struggle to fit it all in.
Think I have some testing to do....
Duckface Chandra is fantastic in these builds, I should add. Forks the direct damage and lives through it to do it again.
Your deck with next-to-no cheap blockers and/or mass removal can reliably keep Chandra alive?
Yes.
Though, to be fair, this is probably nowadays more due to historical precedence than anything else. This deck has a long history of hot, red, lethal retribution if you dare attack me with a little guy early on.
And given that this one plays the targetted damage game, rather than the blanket damage one, it is choosy in picking its targets. It gets to the point where if I have a red mana source and a few Posts out, my playgroup finds themselves thinking "I should attack Bl00m before he goes off... but if I don't insta-gib him, he'll probably aim for me first... wait... how much land has he got untapped? And wait... he runs Comet Storm, doesn't he? Hmmm... passs...". Ah, politics!
And TBH, this deck usually sticks so much mana on the table that you drop Chandra last. She usually adds up to paying 3R to double the amount of damage I'm about to deal to the Threat across the table.
To be fair, you're correct that it probably needs some decent early blockers. I've thought long and hard about sourcing Aether Membranes for this deck in the past. Hell, even Consulate Skygate is probably good enough... you're literally just trying to stonewall for a turn or two (so why not do it literally).
Though, to be fair, this is probably nowadays more due to historical precedence than anything else. This deck has a long history of hot, red, lethal retribution if you dare attack me with a little guy early on.
And given that this one plays the targetted damage game, rather than the blanket damage one, it is choosy in picking its targets. It gets to the point where if I have a red mana source and a few Posts out, my playgroup finds themselves thinking "I should attack Bl00m before he goes off... but if I don't insta-gib him, he'll probably aim for me first... wait... how much land has he got untapped? And wait... he runs Comet Storm, doesn't he? Hmmm... passs...". Ah, politics!
Isn't the entire point of Comet Storm the fact that it clears the table with 1-2 casts? EOT Comet Storm untap Comet Storm game over. I don't see a compelling reason to max out on Banefires but only field 2x Comet Storm in multiplayer.
I don't agree with what you're labeling as "politics." After all, isn't what you're describing objectively bad play? What's the endgame for your adversaries? Wait until you OTK them with burn spells and do nothing in the interim? Are they fighting for positioning rather than playing to win? You don't beat a Cloudpost deck by sitting and back and doing nothing until it amasses 20 mana. Doing nothing results in a loss 100% of the time so why wouldn't you do something even though it'll only work 15% of the time (or whatever)? 15% is still a Hell of a lot better than 0%.
And TBH, this deck usually sticks so much mana on the table that you drop Chandra last. She usually adds up to paying 3R to double the amount of damage I'm about to deal to the Threat across the table.
Though, to be fair, this is probably nowadays more due to historical precedence than anything else. This deck has a long history of hot, red, lethal retribution if you dare attack me with a little guy early on.
And given that this one plays the targetted damage game, rather than the blanket damage one, it is choosy in picking its targets. It gets to the point where if I have a red mana source and a few Posts out, my playgroup finds themselves thinking "I should attack Bl00m before he goes off... but if I don't insta-gib him, he'll probably aim for me first... wait... how much land has he got untapped? And wait... he runs Comet Storm, doesn't he? Hmmm... passs...". Ah, politics!
Isn't the entire point of Comet Storm the fact that it clears the table with 1-2 casts? EOT Comet Storm untap Comet Storm game over. I don't see a compelling reason to max out on Banefires but only field 2x Comet Storm in multiplayer.
I don't agree with what you're labeling as "politics." After all, isn't what you're describing objectively bad play? What's the endgame for your adversaries? Wait until you OTK them with burn spells and do nothing in the interim? Are they fighting for positioning rather than playing to win? You don't beat a Cloudpost deck by sitting and back and doing nothing until it amasses 20 mana. Doing nothing results in a loss 100% of the time so why wouldn't you do something even though it'll only work 15% of the time (or whatever)? 15% is still a Hell of a lot better than 0%.
Preaching to the choir, baby. I dunno either... I just exploit it.
I was fielding the full set of Banefires mostly to jink around countermagic, as there have been periods where this deck has been countered out of the game, but I should probably be running 3+3 as the mix nowadays (or maybe even just two Banefires, targetting the blue players first).
And TBH, this deck usually sticks so much mana on the table that you drop Chandra last. She usually adds up to paying 3R to double the amount of damage I'm about to deal to the Threat across the table.
Yah, I haven't been able to get a hold of any copies of Goggles yet, and that's probably the card I want. Still, Duckface is a turn earlier, and I have managed to ultimate her before (which pretty much won the game on the spot).
I was fielding the full set of Banefires mostly to jink around countermagic, as there have been periods where this deck has been countered out of the game, but I should probably be running 3+3 as the mix nowadays (or maybe even just two Banefires, targetting the blue players first).
Random tangent but that's another reason why I like Pyromancer's Goggles so much. It's an amazing anti-permission tool that isn't exclusively "hateful" to Blue decks.
Still, Duckface is a turn earlier, and I have managed to ultimate her before (which pretty much won the game on the spot).
Well my primary argument is that a turn 4 Chandra is marginal at best given that she is unlikely to survive until you next untap step. Otherwise both cards cost the same net amount of mana from "turn 5" and onward and Goggles has more inherent utility and increased resilience.
In this type of build, I definitely agree with adding Repercussion. Perhaps in the Mana Barbs/Burning Sands slots? Those seem like a lot of mana investment right around when you'll hit that point of needing to directly burn out the table that has temporarily teamed up against you.
This. If you're going creatureless with mass-burn, 4 Repercussion is an auto-include.
(unless your meta has a lot of salty players and explosive decks, in which case casting Repercussion on turn 3 could get you ganged up on and killed before turn 4...).
Yes, Manabarbs is awful.
Repercussion does make Humble Defector hilarious. You get to draw 2 and Donate a creature to a player with no or few creatures before dealing everybody mass damage. Opponent cannot respond by giving you back Humble Defector since it can only be activated on controller's turn!!
Would a non-post based Big Red deck be viable. Personally, I already have a post deck and wouldn't want to build another but many players enjoy a burn deck and I want to have a diverse deck selection available for my 'gauntlet' of decks. Would a pyromancer's goggles powered spell deck with Tormenting Voice, Cathartic Reunion, and mana geyser (and maybe Mizzix's Mastery) be as effective or will it always be strictly worse than the cloudpost version?
Would a non-post based Big Red deck be viable. Personally, I already have a post deck and wouldn't want to build another but many players enjoy a burn deck and I want to have a diverse deck selection available for my 'gauntlet' of decks. Would a pyromancer's goggles powered spell deck with Tormenting Voice, Cathartic Reunion, and mana geyser be as effective or will it always be strictly worse than the cloudpost version?
The deck wouldn't technically be strictly worse. After all, Posts are colorless sources and since most of them ETB Post decks tend to have slower + more unreliable starts than not-Post builds. They're more susceptible to color and/or mana screw and you'll occasionally struggle to cast Red spells (especially multiple Red spells) on curve. Once you factor their reliance on slow + niche tutors/support effects such as Thespian's Stage and Expedition Map it's clear that your starts aren't always sunshine and rainbows. That being said Cloudpost makes the deck significantly more powerful in the mid-to-lategame which is especially relevant for slower, more casual multiplayer formats. After all, assuming that everyone just wants to sit back and do their "fair" thing (no combos, no MLD, etc.) then why not employ a lategame mana engine that carries no significant opportunity cost? Having access to 12+ mana is almost always going to be relevant and since most 1-2 color decks can support 8 colorless lands (remember that Vesuva/Thespian's Stage can be transformed into colored sources as needed) it's a no-brainer. As such I'm not going to BS you and suggest that the loss of Cloudposts is trivial. It's not. That being said cards like Mana Geyser and Pyromancer's Goggles are extremely powerful and you can easily build a competitive multiplayer deck that incorporates them instead. The deck is weaker but not so much that it can't compete. It would still be viable, fun and effective at most levels of play. You'd undoubtedly lose some games that Cloudpost could have enabler you to win but that's ok. Losing your "fair share" has relevant upsides such as keeping the game fun and interesting for everyone. Playing Magic and losing games is a Hell of a lot better than having the other players lose interest and quit.
On what exactly? You have to post your deck if you want us to give you some advice.
Either way I assume that your new deck is fine and is probably worth testing at this point. You previously discussed Cathartic Reunion which is iffy in decks with no GY synergies but unlike Wild Guess it doesn't cost multiple Red mana and the fact that it digs 3 cards for Posts is certainly relevant. It also pitches stone blanks such as Glacial Chasm and excess Goggles while digging deep for key spells and effects.
On what exactly? You have to post your deck if you want us to give you some advice.
See post #17 I assume you're joking
To be honest, in testing this deck has been very vulnerable to counter. Molten Disaster & Boseiju, Who Shelters All are the options I can think of that may fit in here. Any others that might fit?
To be honest, in testing this deck has been very vulnerable to counter. Molten Disaster & Boseiju, Who Shelters All are the options I can think of that may fit in here. Any others that might fit?
Boseiju is great since you can Expedition Map for it. Goggles are great since the copy still goes through even if the original gets countered. Otherwise your best bets for anti-permission spells are Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast, Defense Grid and Boil (if applicable).
Note that "sideboard" cards are significantly less risky in Cathartic Reunion decks given that you'll eventually be able to rummage them away for functional spells even when they're not needed.
Note that "sideboard" cards are significantly less risky in Cathartic Reunion decks given that you'll eventually be able to rummage them away for functional spells even when they're not needed.
On the flip side, in a meta filled with counterspells that you need to "sideboard" against, Cathartic Reunion is very risky. The blue mage will be very tempted to 3-for-1 you, and will probably even win brownie points from the table for slowing down the mass-burn deck.
Also, pray none of those blue mages are also running the powerhouse that is Swamp, or else you may walk into a Notion Thief. (1R, use this card, discard 2 more cards, opponent draws 3 cards, then apply palms to face liberally)
... you may walk into a Notion Thief. (1R, use this card, discard 2 more cards, opponent draws 3 cards, then apply palms to face liberally)
I don't fear Notion Thief - it's the kind of card that attracts removal from everyone in my group (I may have had something to do with that), and I am running more than enough removal to deal with it.
Yeah I know. I've played with the card to the point that a Notion Thief deck will have the whole table gunning you down.
Reunion is a risk against Notion Thief & counter, sure, but outside Humble Defector, there's not too many other options for draw that work with colourless mana. Pyroblast-types have my attention though.
Defense Grid type perms are an option I don't really want to commit deck space to.
Wouldn't turn 3 Repercussion turn 4 Blasphemous Act be better than any of your burn spells, just outright kill any opponent with 2 creatures on the board w/o having to generate big mana?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I've tried decks like these before, and they've never quite worked, but here's where it's going so far.
I want to improve it, any and all advice welcome!
2 Awaken the Ancient
1 Magma Phoenix
1 Magmatic Force
1 Manabarbs
4 Mana Geyser
4 Rolling Earthquake
2 Earthquake
4 Fiery Confluence
4 Slagstorm
45 cards so far. I haven't decided whether I'm aiming for totally creatureless or not.
8 or 10 Post is something I've considered, but it generally requires some support. I wanna burn people, so I might just go with 4 Myriad Landscape, 2-3 Valakut & Mountains.
Burning Sands is a card I'm considering, especially if I end up going creatureless. How good is it in practice without any support? (think Ratchet Bomb etc.) I'm also considering Nevinyrral's Disk, but obviously Sands and Disk exclude each other.
Other cards I'm considering;
Acidic Soil, Repercussion, Mass Mutiny, Insurrection
Draw.
4-8 Draw - Faithless Looting, Cathartic Reunion and/or Outpost Siege will probably be in here.
Anything else I should be considering?
Protection;
3 Madcap Experiment, 1 Platinum Emperion, 2 Glacial Chasm is something I'm tossing up.
I'm not 100% keen on Emperion, as stealing/cloning it can hurt my gameplan.
X-spells don't like Chasm generally, so I'm on the fence here as I can't afford Gauntlet of Might.
I like the idea of dropping a Chasm and banging burn-creature/player spells though.
What other options are there here?
Reason for some choices;
Price of Progress isn't always a stellar performer in my group, as we have quite a few decks running around with minimal non-basics. I've preferred to go with damage to opponents & creatures, so no Flame Rift or Pyroclasm. Volcanic Fallout often doesn't do enough. I've gone with few creatures, but Boros Reckoner may get in there in some number, or perhaps something with indestructible that could hold the fort like Manor Gargoyle.
Slagstorm is here over Flamebreak, as I have to deal with some opponents consisting of exclusively flying creatures.
Splash?
I've considered a blue splash for draw & control perms like Pendrell Mists, Propaganda etc.
Black has a lot of things that might be useful.
So what do you think I should add in there?
Cheers
Burning Wish is just one of those cards. I'll have to get my retort ready, "Would you like cheese to go with that whine?"
Yeah I think I may pass on wish.
I think creatureless is the way to go if I'm gonna go with posts & Burning Sands. Expedition Map allows me to use less Glacial Chasm, and makes it easier to grab them, helping all these player damage cards to be one-sided.
So long as Chasm is more consistent, I can forget about Madcap/Emperion.
Hows this?
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
2x Glacial Chasm
4x Expedition Map
4x Rolling Earthquake
4x Fiery Confluence
4x Mana Geyser
2x Slagstorm
4x Tormenting Voice
3x Outpost Siege
1x Pyromancer's Goggles
2x Burning Sands
2x Sulfuric Vortex
Sulfuric Vortex could easily be Slagstorm 3 & 4, but stopping lifegain has to be in there.
If you deck has this much mass removal then Humble Defector is almost strictly better than Tormenting Voice. You're going to *** on turn 3-4 anyways so why not field the 2-for-1 that also threatens to block? If you deck had multiple Goggles then maybe but if you're only going to run 1 then I'd rather have the Defector. Just so we're clear worst-case scenario you cast it on turn 2 and then don't activate it until turn 3-4 when you're ready to clear the board. Best case you negotiate with someone who's having a rough game and offer to trade back and forth. Turn 3 you tap it and hand it over to someone, they tap it and ship it back to you, you tap it and ship it someone and then clear the board. Your 2 mana nets you 3 cards when that type of exchange occurs which is obviously fantastic. Even if you have to discard cards it still figs you into Posts.
FWIW I don't think that Red has to play an all-in Burn strategy with this style of deck. You can play a slower Control deck with Subterranean Tremors and Anger of the Gods/Slagstorm as removal that doesn't deal itself a bunch of damage. In the midgame you can rely on Outpost Siege for card advantage while you dig into Posts to fuel powerful bombs such as Inferno Titan and Oblivion Sower. Eventually you can "big mana" out haymakers such as Comet Storm, Insurrection, 10+ CMC bombs, etc.
A card that I really like in Mana Geyser decks is Volcanic Vision. It's a "free" Plague Wind of sorts and can sometimes even net mana depending on the stage of the game/number of players. It's obviously less relevant in a creatureless deck but I don't think that you need to go all-in on the burn aspect.
If you're going to play a creatureless burn deck then 4x Repercussion is a must. It's the only legitimate reason to omit creature entirely IMO.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Moderator Help Desk
Sales Thread
I think that you're being too kind. Manabarbs is fantastic if you're curving 1 drop -> 2 drop -> 1 drop + 2 drop -> the rest of your cheap spells -> Manabarbs. You're playing a ~22 land deck with no mana sinks and no cards that cost more than 4. This is a deck with 50x Fireball that actively wants to spend 10 mana every turn. Barbs is actively bad at best.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
RE: Chasm, the number of them will probably change as I test the deck.
FYI - Repercussion with Blasphemous Act, Pyroclasm-types, I do come up against creatureless decks.
My group is mainly creature based, so Repz should be a fairly safe bet with this much *burn everything*.
Pyromancer's Goggles looks very good here - 3 seems like a good number - I'm thinking all draw should be instant/sorcery based instead, to get more out of goggles. For draw, I'm thinking a mix of ~8 Tormenting Voice, Cathartic Reunion, Wild Guess or (maybe) Magmatic Insight.
With Goggles & Sands, Seething Song looks a lot more useful to drop them on T3.
4 Song, 4 Geyser, 8 Post is a lot of mana potential. 8 Sorcery-Draw with Goggles looks good. Will be a struggle to fit it all in.
Think I have some testing to do....
My current red-X list:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Great Furnace
6 Mountain
Creatures - 10
2 Aetherflame Wall
2 Soulbright Flamekin
2 Steel Hellkite
1 Magmatic Force
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Shard Phoenix
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Doubling Cube
4 Banefire
2 Comet Storm
1 Punishing Fire
1 Red Sun's Zenith
1 Dragon Roost
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Expedition Map
3 Molten Psyche
2 Reforge the Soul
1 Howl of the Horde
2 Chaos Warp
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Chandra, the Firebrand
Duckface Chandra is fantastic in these builds, I should add. Forks the direct damage and lives through it to do it again.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Your deck with next-to-no cheap blockers and/or mass removal can reliably keep Chandra alive?
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Yes.
Though, to be fair, this is probably nowadays more due to historical precedence than anything else. This deck has a long history of hot, red, lethal retribution if you dare attack me with a little guy early on.
And given that this one plays the targetted damage game, rather than the blanket damage one, it is choosy in picking its targets. It gets to the point where if I have a red mana source and a few Posts out, my playgroup finds themselves thinking "I should attack Bl00m before he goes off... but if I don't insta-gib him, he'll probably aim for me first... wait... how much land has he got untapped? And wait... he runs Comet Storm, doesn't he? Hmmm... passs...". Ah, politics!
And TBH, this deck usually sticks so much mana on the table that you drop Chandra last. She usually adds up to paying 3R to double the amount of damage I'm about to deal to the Threat across the table.
To be fair, you're correct that it probably needs some decent early blockers. I've thought long and hard about sourcing Aether Membranes for this deck in the past. Hell, even Consulate Skygate is probably good enough... you're literally just trying to stonewall for a turn or two (so why not do it literally).
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Isn't the entire point of Comet Storm the fact that it clears the table with 1-2 casts? EOT Comet Storm untap Comet Storm game over. I don't see a compelling reason to max out on Banefires but only field 2x Comet Storm in multiplayer.
I don't agree with what you're labeling as "politics." After all, isn't what you're describing objectively bad play? What's the endgame for your adversaries? Wait until you OTK them with burn spells and do nothing in the interim? Are they fighting for positioning rather than playing to win? You don't beat a Cloudpost deck by sitting and back and doing nothing until it amasses 20 mana. Doing nothing results in a loss 100% of the time so why wouldn't you do something even though it'll only work 15% of the time (or whatever)? 15% is still a Hell of a lot better than 0%.
I'd rather field Pyromancer's Goggles and/or Mana Geyser if that's her average use-case.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Preaching to the choir, baby. I dunno either... I just exploit it.
I was fielding the full set of Banefires mostly to jink around countermagic, as there have been periods where this deck has been countered out of the game, but I should probably be running 3+3 as the mix nowadays (or maybe even just two Banefires, targetting the blue players first).
Yah, I haven't been able to get a hold of any copies of Goggles yet, and that's probably the card I want. Still, Duckface is a turn earlier, and I have managed to ultimate her before (which pretty much won the game on the spot).
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Random tangent but that's another reason why I like Pyromancer's Goggles so much. It's an amazing anti-permission tool that isn't exclusively "hateful" to Blue decks.
Well my primary argument is that a turn 4 Chandra is marginal at best given that she is unlikely to survive until you next untap step. Otherwise both cards cost the same net amount of mana from "turn 5" and onward and Goggles has more inherent utility and increased resilience.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
This. If you're going creatureless with mass-burn, 4 Repercussion is an auto-include.
(unless your meta has a lot of salty players and explosive decks, in which case casting Repercussion on turn 3 could get you ganged up on and killed before turn 4...).
Yes, Manabarbs is awful.
Repercussion does make Humble Defector hilarious. You get to draw 2 and Donate a creature to a player with no or few creatures before dealing everybody mass damage. Opponent cannot respond by giving you back Humble Defector since it can only be activated on controller's turn!!
The deck wouldn't technically be strictly worse. After all, Posts are colorless sources and since most of them ETB Post decks tend to have slower + more unreliable starts than not-Post builds. They're more susceptible to color and/or mana screw and you'll occasionally struggle to cast Red spells (especially multiple Red spells) on curve. Once you factor their reliance on slow + niche tutors/support effects such as Thespian's Stage and Expedition Map it's clear that your starts aren't always sunshine and rainbows. That being said Cloudpost makes the deck significantly more powerful in the mid-to-lategame which is especially relevant for slower, more casual multiplayer formats. After all, assuming that everyone just wants to sit back and do their "fair" thing (no combos, no MLD, etc.) then why not employ a lategame mana engine that carries no significant opportunity cost? Having access to 12+ mana is almost always going to be relevant and since most 1-2 color decks can support 8 colorless lands (remember that Vesuva/Thespian's Stage can be transformed into colored sources as needed) it's a no-brainer. As such I'm not going to BS you and suggest that the loss of Cloudposts is trivial. It's not. That being said cards like Mana Geyser and Pyromancer's Goggles are extremely powerful and you can easily build a competitive multiplayer deck that incorporates them instead. The deck is weaker but not so much that it can't compete. It would still be viable, fun and effective at most levels of play. You'd undoubtedly lose some games that Cloudpost could have enabler you to win but that's ok. Losing your "fair share" has relevant upsides such as keeping the game fun and interesting for everyone. Playing Magic and losing games is a Hell of a lot better than having the other players lose interest and quit.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Here's where I'm at;
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
2x Thespian's Stage
2x Glacial Chasm
4x Expedition Map
4x Rolling Earthquake
4x Fiery Confluence
4x Mana Geyser
4x Tormenting Voice
4x Cathartic Reunion
3x Pyromancer's Goggles
Thoughts?
On what exactly? You have to post your deck if you want us to give you some advice.
Either way I assume that your new deck is fine and is probably worth testing at this point. You previously discussed Cathartic Reunion which is iffy in decks with no GY synergies but unlike Wild Guess it doesn't cost multiple Red mana and the fact that it digs 3 cards for Posts is certainly relevant. It also pitches stone blanks such as Glacial Chasm and excess Goggles while digging deep for key spells and effects.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
See post #17 I assume you're joking
To be honest, in testing this deck has been very vulnerable to counter.
Molten Disaster & Boseiju, Who Shelters All are the options I can think of that may fit in here. Any others that might fit?
?
Boseiju is great since you can Expedition Map for it. Goggles are great since the copy still goes through even if the original gets countered. Otherwise your best bets for anti-permission spells are Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast, Defense Grid and Boil (if applicable).
Note that "sideboard" cards are significantly less risky in Cathartic Reunion decks given that you'll eventually be able to rummage them away for functional spells even when they're not needed.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
On the flip side, in a meta filled with counterspells that you need to "sideboard" against, Cathartic Reunion is very risky. The blue mage will be very tempted to 3-for-1 you, and will probably even win brownie points from the table for slowing down the mass-burn deck.
Also, pray none of those blue mages are also running the powerhouse that is Swamp, or else you may walk into a Notion Thief. (1R, use this card, discard 2 more cards, opponent draws 3 cards, then apply palms to face liberally)
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
2x Thespian's Stage
2x Glacial Chasm
4x Expedition Map
4x Rolling Earthquake
4x Fiery Confluence
4x Mana Geyser
4x Tormenting Voice
4x Cathartic Reunion
3x Pyromancer's Goggles
Kinda surprised you can't see it?!
That was my thought too.
I don't fear Notion Thief - it's the kind of card that attracts removal from everyone in my group (I may have had something to do with that), and I am running more than enough removal to deal with it.
Thanks again guys.
My Powered 630 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
Reunion is a risk against Notion Thief & counter, sure, but outside Humble Defector, there's not too many other options for draw that work with colourless mana. Pyroblast-types have my attention though.
Defense Grid type perms are an option I don't really want to commit deck space to.