Ran into something super annoying yesterday when I rejoined my playgroup. The person that host's the games plays the most ridiculous stuff you can think of. The rules of the house are supposed to be legacy legal. That's great accept most of his decks play 4 sol Ring, which is banned in legacy. If any of you have played against multiple soul rings, you know how frustrating it can be when you're trying to do things and you're getting all of your stuff bounced to your hand via hurkyl's recall and mycosynth lattice within the first 4 turns. I saw it happen twice last night. I know what most of you are thinking, why don't you make some rules...Yeah I know, easier said than done.
With all this said, lets build something super destructive, either artifact hate or whatever...I'm open for suggestions. Blood MoonShatterstorm IDk. I'm just sick of seeing platinum angels, wurmcoils, platinum emperions, unwinding clocks, meanwhile I've got one land. I appreciate any input that is suggested.
Null rod (wow has that gotten expensive) does a good job shutting down artifact ramp. Drop one turn two and I doubt he will be doing anything the rest of the game if he is relying that heavily on sol ring.
Ran into something super annoying yesterday when I rejoined my playgroup. The person that host's the games plays the most ridiculous stuff you can think of. The rules of the house are supposed to be legacy legal. That's great accept most of his decks play 4 sol Ring, which is banned in legacy. If any of you have played against multiple soul rings, you know how frustrating it can be when you're trying to do things and you're getting all of your stuff bounced to your hand via hurkyl's recall and mycosynth lattice within the first 4 turns. I saw it happen twice last night. I know what most of you are thinking, why don't you make some rules...Yeah I know, easier said than done.
With all this said, lets build something super destructive, either artifact hate or whatever...I'm open for suggestions. Blood MoonShatterstorm IDk. I'm just sick of seeing platinum angels, wurmcoils, platinum emperions, unwinding clocks, meanwhile I've got one land. I appreciate any input that is suggested.
If you're playing in a "no hold's barred" meta and employing house rules isn't an option then you're basically forced to start playing with 4x Sol Ring et al. yourself. Obviously you can force yourself to start playing 4x Seeds of Innocence (or whatever) in your decks but the person asking the questions will almost always boast a higher win % than the person struggling to answer them. After all, if your "answer" to a 1 drop is a 3-4 drop then what are you actually accomplishing?
If you're playing in a "no hold's barred" meta and employing house rules isn't an option then you're basically forced to start playing with 4x Sol Ring et al. yourself. Obviously you can force yourself to start playing 4x Seeds of Innocence (or whatever) in your decks but the person asking the questions will almost always boast a higher win % than the person struggling to answer them. After all, if your "answer" to a 1 drop is a 3-4 drop then what are you actually accomplishing?
I suppose you are right, I just hate how cheap that feels.
I suppose you are right, I just hate how cheap that feels.
Oh it's miserable. Sol Ring is only the tip of the iceberg. What happens when someone goes turn 1 ChannelTooth and Nail off a Gemstone Caverns, Lotus Petal, Elvish Spirit Guide, etc. What happens when people are consistently winning on turn 1-2? From what you've told us there was a still a bit of Magic played. Good luck with that. When you can literally play with any card in any quantity games shouldn't last more than a turn.
Oh it's miserable. Sol Ring is only the tip of the iceberg. What happens when someone goes turn 1 ChannelTooth and Nail off a Gemstone Caverns, Lotus Petal, Elvish Spirit Guide, etc. What happens when people are consistently winning on turn 1-2? From what you've told us there was a still a bit of Magic played. Good luck with that. When you can literally play with any card in any quantity games shouldn't last more than a turn.
That's what I said last night, i'll just build some busted sh*t and win on turn one, since you're not concerned with actually playing a game for fun. I hate to complain, but what can you do. I was searching around online and came across citanul flute, is it possible to build a toolbox multiplayer deck with something like this, or would it be better to just use Pod or Eldritch Evolution. I guess by doing something on that route, it might be possible to have some answers to just about whatever I need.
Or could you build something with a bunch of value creatures that you could just eventually combo off with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. I'm thinking ping creatures, exile effects etc. Is something like this viable or is it just too clunky and slow?
Maelstrom Pulse stops multiple Sol Rings dead (and is thankfully getting cheaper).
Pretty easy to build a decent Golgari Pod deck around that, if that's the direction you want to head down...
T1 DRS, T2 Pulse away the shenanigans (assuming someone's cracked a fetch or an Evolving Wilds), T3 Pod, get outta the way?
If there's really no option to talk about the (deckbuilding) rules you can always join the arms race.
If there is you might want to introduce the shuffle vote: if a game gets out of hand or is utterly boring a player can call a vote to quit that game and shuffle up. (Depending on the playgroup you can set limits on the call.)
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My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
If there's really no option to talk about the (deckbuilding) rules you can always join the arms race.
If there is you might want to introduce the shuffle vote: if a game gets out of hand or is utterly boring a player can call a vote to quit that game and shuffle up. (Depending on the playgroup you can set limits on the call.)
Yeah, we had two times where everybody just scooped because it was pointless. That's okay if it's late in the game, but it was early in both games.
And you can obviously tweak the silver-bullets as needed.
So since my meta is obviously busted, are there some tweaks that could make this more powerful but still budget(ish) friendly? Does Conjurer's Closet fit into something like this?
So since my meta is obviously busted, are there some tweaks that could make this more powerful but still budget(ish) friendly? Does Conjurer's Closet fit into something like this?
I've never played in a meta where you could legally jam 4x Sol Ring, 4x Channel, 4x Tinker, etc. so it's difficult for me to think of something off-hand. I only know what I play. Obviously you just could build a 4x Demonic Consultation, 4x Channel, 4x Exsanguinate or 4x Waste Not, 4x Windfall deck and call it a day but that doesn't seem to be what you're after.
Conjurer's Closet is too weak and wouldn't make the deck more powerful.
You could totally troll them by playing a sol ring powered eggs deck. See how much they enjoy sitting there doing nothing while you take a 30-45 min turn.
So since my meta is obviously busted, are there some tweaks that could make this more powerful but still budget(ish) friendly? Does Conjurer's Closet fit into something like this?
I've never played in a meta where you could legally jam 4x Sol Ring, 4x Channel, 4x Tinker, etc. so it's difficult for me to think of something off-hand. I only know what I play. Obviously you just could build a 4x Demonic Consultation, 4x Channel, 4x Exsanguinate or 4x Waste Not, 4x Windfall deck and call it a day but that doesn't seem to be what you're after.
Conjurer's Closet is too weak and wouldn't make the deck more powerful.
TBH, I think about the only way to improve it more is to run a million-dollar land base and consider Melira (for next level brokenness with the Persist guys). It's a toolbox deck, so it's designed to sit around and handle whatever gets thrown at it, rather than ramp faster than anyone else. For really busted versions, you switch to Jund and start running Recurring Fricking Nightmare.
Recurring Nightmare is laughably overrated as a degenerate combo card. It's a fine 1-2 of value engine for midrange decks but it's worthless if you're attempting to build the most powerful, non-interactive combo build that you can possibly muster. I've asked it before and I'll ask it again, what can do you with Rec NM that's actually broken? What 2-card combo are you employing to win the game on the spot that isn't strictly better/faster if it uses another card instead? For all the talk about Rec NM being "broken" card I've yet to see anything remotely unfair posted. Looping Kokushos isn't broken. Recurring Eternal Witness isn't degenerate. Pairing it with Priest of Gix isn't oppressive. I don't know why it's lauded an S-tier combo card because it isn't. Every single combo requires 3 or more cards and/or is strictly slower/more mana intensive than an alternative sequence.
Rec NM is a great card, one of my favorites as a matter of fact. It's not an oppressive combo enabler.
Is everyone annoyed? Just get everyone to side a playset of Hurkyl's Recall and/or Splinter into their decks so that odds are someone can target the guy ruining game night whenever he drops Lattice. Bonus points if you don't bother changing your manabase and just rely on his own Lattice for the color fixing.
I think there are a ton of things you could do to control the board with Rec NM. I doubt it is going to be more degenerate than what I am seeing as listed above, but maybe just enough disruption that I can mess up some plans and end the game with some help of my teammate. That being said, Jund was mentioned, what is the reason behind that? I would assume it would just be G/B?
Recurring Nightmare is laughably overrated as a degenerate combo card. It's a fine 1-2 of value engine for midrange decks but it's worthless if you're attempting to build the most powerful, non-interactive combo build that you can possibly muster. I've asked it before and I'll ask it again, what can do you with Rec NM that's actually broken? What 2-card combo are you employing to win the game on the spot that isn't strictly better/faster if it uses another card instead? For all the talk about Rec NM being "broken" card I've yet to see anything remotely unfair posted. Looping Kokushos isn't broken. Recurring Eternal Witness isn't degenerate. Pairing it with Priest of Gix isn't oppressive. I don't know why it's lauded an S-tier combo card because it isn't. Every single combo requires 3 or more cards and/or is strictly slower/more mana intensive than an alternative sequence.
Rec NM is a great card, one of my favorites as a matter of fact. It's not an oppressive combo enabler.
I've only ever seen it truly, horribly broken when paired with Survival of the Fittest. Those two together are an unholy duo - SotF lets you discard threats with abandon for RN to reanimate, and also tutors up the best ones to boot. From there, it's probably just "pick the worst two creatures you can think of to finish the game with". The worst I've seen out my cube (while RN was still in) was Ashen Rider looped with Triskelion, but there would be far worse than that.
I think there are a ton of things you could do to control the board with Rec NM. I doubt it is going to be more degenerate than what I am seeing as listed above, but maybe just enough disruption that I can mess up some plans and end the game with some help of my teammate. That being said, Jund was mentioned, what is the reason behind that? I would assume it would just be G/B?
Following on from my post above, Jund for versions that run Survival of the Fittest. Mostly just in case you ever want to get Squee, Goblin Nabob onto the table in case of emergency. But yes, very close to purely GB. These days, you could probably just run straight Golgari, and get red out of DRS if you ever wanted to resolve Squee instead of discard him to SotF.
I've only ever seen it truly, horribly broken when paired with Survival of the Fittest. Those two together are an unholy duo - SotF lets you discard threats with abandon for RN to reanimate, and also tutors up the best ones to boot. From there, it's probably just "pick the worst two creatures you can think of to finish the game with". The worst I've seen out my cube (while RN was still in) was Ashen Rider looped with Triskelion, but there would be far worse than that.
Survival is a 1-card win condition. Bin Triskelion + Phyrexian Devourer then tutor up Necrotic Ooze (Reanimate or hardcast it, doesn't matter). Then ping everyone to death through any amount of spot removal. Either that or bin Griselbrand and tutor up Loyal Retainers. Why would you bother wasting time with Rec NM?
Is everyone annoyed? Just get everyone to side a playset of Hurkyl's Recall and/or Splinter into their decks so that odds are someone can target the guy ruining game night whenever he drops Lattice. Bonus points if you don't bother changing your manabase and just rely on his own Lattice for the color fixing.
Short answer is yes, everybody besides his wife (he builds her decks) are annoyed. I'm just the only person that will actually say that what he's doing is bs.
I think there are a ton of things you could do to control the board with Rec NM. I doubt it is going to be more degenerate than what I am seeing as listed above, but maybe just enough disruption that I can mess up some plans and end the game with some help of my teammate. That being said, Jund was mentioned, what is the reason behind that? I would assume it would just be G/B?
Following on from my post above, Jund for versions that run Survival of the Fittest. Mostly just in case you ever want to get Squee, Goblin Nabob onto the table in case of emergency. But yes, very close to purely GB. These days, you could probably just run straight Golgari, and get red out of DRS if you ever wanted to resolve Squee instead of discard him to SotF.
No, the real reason to add Red is for Orcish Lumberjack and/or Goblin Welder. Squee is like the 5th best reason to add Red.
I've only ever seen it truly, horribly broken when paired with Survival of the Fittest. Those two together are an unholy duo - SotF lets you discard threats with abandon for RN to reanimate, and also tutors up the best ones to boot. From there, it's probably just "pick the worst two creatures you can think of to finish the game with". The worst I've seen out my cube (while RN was still in) was Ashen Rider looped with Triskelion, but there would be far worse than that.
Survival is a 1-card win condition. Bin Triskelion + Phyrexian Devourer then tutor up Necrotic Ooze (Reanimate or hardcast it, doesn't matter). Then ping everyone to death through any amount of spot removal. Either that or bin Griselbrand and tutor up Loyal Retainers. Why would you bother wasting time with Rec NM?
If you go the "I NOoze, You Lose" route, you wouldn't, no. Not unless you wanted redundancy in case someone insta-gibbed your Ooze or something.
RN is more for the durdly toolbox builds that just control the game (which is something more akin to what PlainsAngels was chasing, really).
Depends on whether we want to join the arms race with an insta-win combo, or whether we want to actively hose it, I suppose.
With all this said, lets build something super destructive, either artifact hate or whatever...I'm open for suggestions. Blood Moon Shatterstorm IDk. I'm just sick of seeing platinum angels, wurmcoils, platinum emperions, unwinding clocks, meanwhile I've got one land. I appreciate any input that is suggested.
If you're playing in a "no hold's barred" meta and employing house rules isn't an option then you're basically forced to start playing with 4x Sol Ring et al. yourself. Obviously you can force yourself to start playing 4x Seeds of Innocence (or whatever) in your decks but the person asking the questions will almost always boast a higher win % than the person struggling to answer them. After all, if your "answer" to a 1 drop is a 3-4 drop then what are you actually accomplishing?
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I suppose you are right, I just hate how cheap that feels.
Oh it's miserable. Sol Ring is only the tip of the iceberg. What happens when someone goes turn 1 Channel Tooth and Nail off a Gemstone Caverns, Lotus Petal, Elvish Spirit Guide, etc. What happens when people are consistently winning on turn 1-2? From what you've told us there was a still a bit of Magic played. Good luck with that. When you can literally play with any card in any quantity games shouldn't last more than a turn.
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That's what I said last night, i'll just build some busted sh*t and win on turn one, since you're not concerned with actually playing a game for fun. I hate to complain, but what can you do. I was searching around online and came across citanul flute, is it possible to build a toolbox multiplayer deck with something like this, or would it be better to just use Pod or Eldritch Evolution. I guess by doing something on that route, it might be possible to have some answers to just about whatever I need.
Pretty easy to build a decent Golgari Pod deck around that, if that's the direction you want to head down...
T1 DRS, T2 Pulse away the shenanigans (assuming someone's cracked a fetch or an Evolving Wilds), T3 Pod, get outta the way?
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And you can obviously tweak the silver-bullets as needed.
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If there is you might want to introduce the shuffle vote: if a game gets out of hand or is utterly boring a player can call a vote to quit that game and shuffle up. (Depending on the playgroup you can set limits on the call.)
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Yeah, we had two times where everybody just scooped because it was pointless. That's okay if it's late in the game, but it was early in both games.
So since my meta is obviously busted, are there some tweaks that could make this more powerful but still budget(ish) friendly? Does Conjurer's Closet fit into something like this?
I've never played in a meta where you could legally jam 4x Sol Ring, 4x Channel, 4x Tinker, etc. so it's difficult for me to think of something off-hand. I only know what I play. Obviously you just could build a 4x Demonic Consultation, 4x Channel, 4x Exsanguinate or 4x Waste Not, 4x Windfall deck and call it a day but that doesn't seem to be what you're after.
Conjurer's Closet is too weak and wouldn't make the deck more powerful.
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TBH, I think about the only way to improve it more is to run a million-dollar land base and consider Melira (for next level brokenness with the Persist guys). It's a toolbox deck, so it's designed to sit around and handle whatever gets thrown at it, rather than ramp faster than anyone else. For really busted versions, you switch to Jund and start running Recurring Fricking Nightmare.
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Recurring Nightmare is laughably overrated as a degenerate combo card. It's a fine 1-2 of value engine for midrange decks but it's worthless if you're attempting to build the most powerful, non-interactive combo build that you can possibly muster. I've asked it before and I'll ask it again, what can do you with Rec NM that's actually broken? What 2-card combo are you employing to win the game on the spot that isn't strictly better/faster if it uses another card instead? For all the talk about Rec NM being "broken" card I've yet to see anything remotely unfair posted. Looping Kokushos isn't broken. Recurring Eternal Witness isn't degenerate. Pairing it with Priest of Gix isn't oppressive. I don't know why it's lauded an S-tier combo card because it isn't. Every single combo requires 3 or more cards and/or is strictly slower/more mana intensive than an alternative sequence.
Rec NM is a great card, one of my favorites as a matter of fact. It's not an oppressive combo enabler.
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I've only ever seen it truly, horribly broken when paired with Survival of the Fittest. Those two together are an unholy duo - SotF lets you discard threats with abandon for RN to reanimate, and also tutors up the best ones to boot. From there, it's probably just "pick the worst two creatures you can think of to finish the game with". The worst I've seen out my cube (while RN was still in) was Ashen Rider looped with Triskelion, but there would be far worse than that.
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Following on from my post above, Jund for versions that run Survival of the Fittest. Mostly just in case you ever want to get Squee, Goblin Nabob onto the table in case of emergency. But yes, very close to purely GB. These days, you could probably just run straight Golgari, and get red out of DRS if you ever wanted to resolve Squee instead of discard him to SotF.
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Survival is a 1-card win condition. Bin Triskelion + Phyrexian Devourer then tutor up Necrotic Ooze (Reanimate or hardcast it, doesn't matter). Then ping everyone to death through any amount of spot removal. Either that or bin Griselbrand and tutor up Loyal Retainers. Why would you bother wasting time with Rec NM?
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Short answer is yes, everybody besides his wife (he builds her decks) are annoyed. I'm just the only person that will actually say that what he's doing is bs.
No, the real reason to add Red is for Orcish Lumberjack and/or Goblin Welder. Squee is like the 5th best reason to add Red.
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If you go the "I NOoze, You Lose" route, you wouldn't, no. Not unless you wanted redundancy in case someone insta-gibbed your Ooze or something.
RN is more for the durdly toolbox builds that just control the game (which is something more akin to what PlainsAngels was chasing, really).
Depends on whether we want to join the arms race with an insta-win combo, or whether we want to actively hose it, I suppose.
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