Okay so I'm putting this together for a friend. It's budget conscious, so I've tried to stay away from high-price stuff.
Yeah, I tried to point out the merits of Posts, Urzatron & Nyxy, he doesn't feel like spending that much currently.
This deck needs a lot to go right in order to reach the mana to drop fatties, so mulling for either Quest or Tide is plan A.
I'm looking for better options here, but the cards above are (mostly) cards he already owns.
I don't think he owns Archaeomancer or the similar wall - but being able to recur Wave & Tide is definitely an idea I'll push him to pursue.
So what do you think we could do to make the deck a little more consistent without spending a lot?
And just for *****s and giggles, if money wasn't a concern, how would you change it up?
Personally I don't like augury owl, mulldrifter or sea gate oracle in this deck. I also think some of the fatties you list are clearly better then others.
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I was the guy playing the relentless rats deck back during mirrodin and kamigawa blocks. Yes, cranial extraction was used on me. No, I didn't win much. Yes, I do have a relentless rats edh deck. No, it doesn't win much either...
Is he pretty settled on a Quest for Ula's Temple deck? I ask because, in my experience, the card has been way too janky and inconsistent for me. It requires a bunch of scry/top deck manipulation, and the deck is too easy to disrupt... and it certainly doesn't do anything if Quest doesn't go off.
Seems to me he would be better served playing a generic blue deck with a more solid curve of creatures/spells with some of those fatties as finishers.
I mean it certainly highlights the issue with these decks... that's an early play that, while providing solid defense and triggering Quest, doesn't scry to help chain Quest triggers, and doesn't do much to win the game on its own. It's a solid card, but the Quest REALLY needs early turn scries (or other forms of top deck manipulation) to turn Quest on somewhat reliably in a reasonable time frame. The cards I was using were things like Augurs Owl, Sigil Starfish, Omenspeaker, etc... They are decent early blockers who all help chain Quest triggers.
Yeah Starfish & Omenspeaker were on my radar too. If only there were low costed creatures that were effectively a Ponder or Brainstorm on legs.
The reason for Mulldrifters, is that Temple & Tide require fatties in hand to actually do anything, so combining Mully with Wave was the idea to fill up your hand by the time Temple or Tide is firing.
If it were my choice for a budget deck idea, I'd be looking at a Polymorph / Mass Polymorph deck with token engines.
Honestly guys, I don't like this deck design much at all, but given the low budget, and his wish to play with Wave & Temple, I'm running out of idea's.
I think I'm gonna have to relegate this one to a "Is this really what you wanna play with?" conversation. His choice.
I have a similar deck that runs Sigiled Starfish for early scry, but also has the backup plan of 8-post + Expedition Map to churn out the fatties manually. Everything else is basically there to stall until things get online:
It's fairly casual because my group is a little lower-powered than the decks that normally get posted here, so there's no countermagic or Archaeomancer+Whelming Wave but when it works it churns out fatties quick, and Grozoth into 4x Inkwell is usually enough to close out games.
EDIT: This deck hasn't been updated in a while. If I were to change things up, I'd probably include Breaching LEviathan and Void Winnower to tutor up with Grozoth. Since a lot of the good sweepers cost 4 and 6, the Winnower would help a lot in not straight-up folding to a boardwipe.
Below is a slightly modified (budget) version of a deck I currently run. If your friend is dead-set against running the Locus lands, just have him run 24 Islands. This doesn't look that different from what others have suggested, but Sage of Epityr is a fairly helpful one-drop.
Even though it's not exactly budget anymore I'm surprised that no one fields 2x Quicksilver Amulet in their builds. It's a solid turn 3 play assuming that you didn't open with a Quest and if you kept an opening hand with no Quest or Cloudpost you're either bad at mulliganing or have terrible RNG :P.
Even though it's not exactly budget anymore I'm surprised that no one fields 2x Quicksilver Amulet in their builds. It's a solid turn 3 play assuming that you didn't open with a Quest and if you kept an opening hand with no Quest or Cloudpost you're either bad at mulliganing or have terrible RNG :P.
I do in the version of my deck that cares less about budget, as well as the slightly better Starfish... but for a really tight budget, even two Amulets probably cost as much as the rest of this deck. That said the Amulets really do help get past some of the jankiness resultant from building around the Quest.
That said the Amulets really do help get past some of the jankiness resultant from building around the Quest.
OOC have you or anyone else tested a build with Serum Powder? Ramp isn't worthless and the deck only cares about opening with Island + Quest on turn 1 with everything else being largely irrelevant.
That said the Amulets really do help get past some of the jankiness resultant from building around the Quest.
OOC have you or anyone else tested a build with Serum Powder? Ramp isn't worthless and the deck only cares about opening with Island + Quest on turn 1 with everything else being largely irrelevant.
Until this point, I didn't realize the card existed. Interesting... Not sure what I would cut to run it, but that's a very interesting effect. Granted, I'm at exactly 60 cards now... I could in theory just add a couple of Powders and see what happens.
That said the Amulets really do help get past some of the jankiness resultant from building around the Quest.
OOC have you or anyone else tested a build with Serum Powder? Ramp isn't worthless and the deck only cares about opening with Island + Quest on turn 1 with everything else being largely irrelevant.
Strikes me as way too much effort to make an iffy card work well. In my experience, even a T1 Quest needs a bunch of support, which still opens you up for some pretty unfun draws. I would much rather just play a blue ramp deck with Quicksilver Amulet to flash fatties in play... skip Quest alltogether.
I've seen this general sentiment a lot in regards to the Quest. Having played the deck a few times, I certainly can see its downsides. That said, being able to slam any fatty at the end of EACH end step is quite strong in a multiplayer game.
Deck is consistent but folds faster than Superman on laundry day to Enchantment removal. It's also significantly better if you can afford to field a ton of Fetchlands because it makes your "look 4s" significantly more potent. In a perfect world you'd field Enlightened Tutor over Serum Powder but the goal was to make something budget-minded so /shrug.
You really have to play with Quest for Ula's Temple to get a feel for how bad that it actually is. Even when you go turn 1 Quest, turn 2 blind flip a critter (~50%) + deck stacker it barely feels like you're cheating.
You really have to play with Quest for Ula's Temple to get a feel for how bad that it actually is.
I feel the same way - it's one of those *sounds good* cards that just doesn't play out anywhere near as good as it's seems to be.
I'm talking from a budget-minded perspective, in case anyone disagree's.
I'm talking from a budget-minded perspective, in case anyone disagree's.
Even the "good" versions of the deck aren't that good :/.
This is what I've been saying from the beginning of this thread. I've put a lot of time and energy into trying to make it competitive... it's just not.
Tied up a few minutes wondering about a less blue approach. Got something which may be clunky, but the Quest has us jumping through hoops anyway. We could run UG, with green tutors helping make triggers.
Early game Worldly Tutor can set up a couple triggers, finding Mwonvuli Beast Tracker into a Kraken. Late game Tutor can find a Kraken or a Fierce Empath into Grozoth depending on how soon we need fatties. I haven't really fleshed out a full list to see if this works, maybe other little creatures to help thin the deck and slightly up the chance of a lucky Quest trigger? Sakura-Tribe Elder or Coiling Oracle?
My other idea on this less blue Quest brainstorm is a self enclosed chain, existing only the trigger Quest. One or two playsets between Goblin Recruiter, Flamkin or Treefolk Harbinger can set up our triggers, but we'd need to find the starting link and they don't have the late game flexibility we get from the Worldly/Beast Tracker set up.
(I'm still not sure how that thing is "elder". It has to have been around long before it got eldrazified to qualify as "elder". So, what was it before it became a deep-fiend? A deep-friend?)
Relatively small body, not resilient, not tutorable with Grozoth, does nothing if you cheat it into play with Quest, only disrupts a single adversary when cast "the fair way."
Yeah, I tried to point out the merits of Posts, Urzatron & Nyxy, he doesn't feel like spending that much currently.
4x High Tide
4x Whelming Wave
4x Quest for Ula's Temple
4x Mulldrifter
4x Sea Gate Oracle
The fatties will be a mix of Breaching Leviathan, Deep-Sea Kraken, Inkwell Leviathan, Kederekt Leviathan, Grozoth, Lorthos, the Tidemaker, Shipbreaker Kraken, Stormtide Leviathan I'm guessing, this will be his job to work out. I've seen him play a few of them before, so I don't think his expense on a few fatties will be much.
This deck needs a lot to go right in order to reach the mana to drop fatties, so mulling for either Quest or Tide is plan A.
I'm looking for better options here, but the cards above are (mostly) cards he already owns.
I don't think he owns Archaeomancer or the similar wall - but being able to recur Wave & Tide is definitely an idea I'll push him to pursue.
So what do you think we could do to make the deck a little more consistent without spending a lot?
And just for *****s and giggles, if money wasn't a concern, how would you change it up?
Thanks
Personally I don't like augury owl, mulldrifter or sea gate oracle in this deck. I also think some of the fatties you list are clearly better then others.
What else do you play in ultra-budget Quest for Ula's Temple.dec?
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Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Seems to me he would be better served playing a generic blue deck with a more solid curve of creatures/spells with some of those fatties as finishers.
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cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
Yeah he is - and yeah I'm struggling to come up with a super budget version that any good.
Reef Worm might work as a chump blocker?
I mean it certainly highlights the issue with these decks... that's an early play that, while providing solid defense and triggering Quest, doesn't scry to help chain Quest triggers, and doesn't do much to win the game on its own. It's a solid card, but the Quest REALLY needs early turn scries (or other forms of top deck manipulation) to turn Quest on somewhat reliably in a reasonable time frame. The cards I was using were things like Augurs Owl, Sigil Starfish, Omenspeaker, etc... They are decent early blockers who all help chain Quest triggers.
My Powered 630 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
The reason for Mulldrifters, is that Temple & Tide require fatties in hand to actually do anything, so combining Mully with Wave was the idea to fill up your hand by the time Temple or Tide is firing.
If it were my choice for a budget deck idea, I'd be looking at a Polymorph / Mass Polymorph deck with token engines.
Honestly guys, I don't like this deck design much at all, but given the low budget, and his wish to play with Wave & Temple, I'm running out of idea's.
I think I'm gonna have to relegate this one to a "Is this really what you wanna play with?" conversation. His choice.
Thanks everyone
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
1 Sol Ring
4 Sigiled Starfish
3 Callous Oppressor
3 Trinket Mage
4 Trade Secrets
4 Whelming Wave
4 Quest for Ula's Temple
2 Scourge of Fleets
2 Grozoth
4 Inkwell Leviathan
3 Stormtide Leviathan
It's fairly casual because my group is a little lower-powered than the decks that normally get posted here, so there's no countermagic or Archaeomancer+Whelming Wave but when it works it churns out fatties quick, and Grozoth into 4x Inkwell is usually enough to close out games.
EDIT: This deck hasn't been updated in a while. If I were to change things up, I'd probably include Breaching LEviathan and Void Winnower to tutor up with Grozoth. Since a lot of the good sweepers cost 4 and 6, the Winnower would help a lot in not straight-up folding to a boardwipe.
2x Crush of Tentacles
4x Preordain
1x Rite of Replication
4x Trade Secrets
4x Whelming Wave
4x Inkwell Leviathan
3x Mnemonic Wall
2x Scourge of Fleets
4x Stormtide Leviathan
Planeswalker (3)
3x Jace, Architect of Thought
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
16x Island
Artifact (5)
1x Elixir of Immortality
4x Expedition Map
4x Sage of Epityr
4x Omenspeaker
3x Sigiled Starfish
2x Prognostic Sphinx
2x Scourge of Fleets
1x Tromokratis
2x Stormtide Leviathan
1x Lorthos, the Tidemaker
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Deep-Sea Kraken
4x Quest for Ula's Temple
3x Brainstorm
4x Whelming Wave
Lands (24)
16x Island
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
Archenemy: Nicol Bolas Upgrades
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Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Archenemy: Nicol Bolas Upgrades
OOC have you or anyone else tested a build with Serum Powder? Ramp isn't worthless and the deck only cares about opening with Island + Quest on turn 1 with everything else being largely irrelevant.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
My current list:
4x Sage of Epityr
4x Omenspeaker
3x Thassa, God of the Sea
2x Prognostic Sphinx
2x Scourge of Fleets
1x Tromokratis
2x Stormtide Leviathan
1x Lorthos, the Tidemaker
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Deep-Sea Kraken
4x Quest for Ula's Temple
4x Whelming Wave
2x Quicksilver Amulet
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
Lands (24)
15 Island
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Vesuva
Archenemy: Nicol Bolas Upgrades
Strikes me as way too much effort to make an iffy card work well. In my experience, even a T1 Quest needs a bunch of support, which still opens you up for some pretty unfun draws. I would much rather just play a blue ramp deck with Quicksilver Amulet to flash fatties in play... skip Quest alltogether.
My Powered 630 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
Archenemy: Nicol Bolas Upgrades
You've just described Quest for Ula's Temple. Nobody plays with cards with Sage of Epityr and Omenspeaker because they want to.
Agreed, but this is a thread about building a solid Quest deck.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
16x Island
Creatures (32)
4x Sage of Epityr
4x Augury Owl
4x Sage Owl
2x Spire Owl
2x Omenspeaker
4x Simic Sky Swallower
2x Trench Gorger
2x Stormtide Leviathan
4x Grozoth
4x Inkwell Leviathan
4x Quest for Ula's Temple
4x Clockspinning
4x Serum Powder
Deck is consistent but folds faster than Superman on laundry day to Enchantment removal. It's also significantly better if you can afford to field a ton of Fetchlands because it makes your "look 4s" significantly more potent. In a perfect world you'd field Enlightened Tutor over Serum Powder but the goal was to make something budget-minded so /shrug.
You really have to play with Quest for Ula's Temple to get a feel for how bad that it actually is. Even when you go turn 1 Quest, turn 2 blind flip a critter (~50%) + deck stacker it barely feels like you're cheating.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I feel the same way - it's one of those *sounds good* cards that just doesn't play out anywhere near as good as it's seems to be.
I'm talking from a budget-minded perspective, in case anyone disagree's.
Even the "good" versions of the deck aren't that good :/.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
This is what I've been saying from the beginning of this thread. I've put a lot of time and energy into trying to make it competitive... it's just not.
My Powered 630 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
Early game Worldly Tutor can set up a couple triggers, finding Mwonvuli Beast Tracker into a Kraken. Late game Tutor can find a Kraken or a Fierce Empath into Grozoth depending on how soon we need fatties. I haven't really fleshed out a full list to see if this works, maybe other little creatures to help thin the deck and slightly up the chance of a lucky Quest trigger? Sakura-Tribe Elder or Coiling Oracle?
My other idea on this less blue Quest brainstorm is a self enclosed chain, existing only the trigger Quest. One or two playsets between Goblin Recruiter, Flamkin or Treefolk Harbinger can set up our triggers, but we'd need to find the starting link and they don't have the late game flexibility we get from the Worldly/Beast Tracker set up.
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Relatively small body, not resilient, not tutorable with Grozoth, does nothing if you cheat it into play with Quest, only disrupts a single adversary when cast "the fair way."
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold