Wanted to know people's opinions. Do burgeoning and wild growth fulfill the same exact roles in a deck? and therefore one is just better then the other? Or do they do different things and the specifics of your deck will determine which card is actually better?
Burgeoning does not give any mana. It lets you play your lands quicker so if you draw it early in a game you can front end your lands but unless you are stupidly mana flooded or have a strong card draw mechanism you won't actually end up with more mana late game then you would have without it. A deck with 24 lands and burgeoning still just has 24 cards generating mana.
Wild Growth more directly gives mana. Its ramp early game and it also kinda functions as land 25-28. This makes it more likely that any card you draw will produce mana.
To me burgeoning has much more potential to cascade when combined with other cards, but is less stable then wild growth. I don't view them as doing the same thing and don't think that one is always better then the other.
Thoughts?
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I was the guy playing the relentless rats deck back during mirrodin and kamigawa blocks. Yes, cranial extraction was used on me. No, I didn't win much. Yes, I do have a relentless rats edh deck. No, it doesn't win much either...
They are very different, and you are correct that Burgeoning puts out massively more power when fueled by card draw. However, even without a draw engine Burgeoning can put you at 4 or 5 mana on your second turn just from lands naturally in hand which gives you a huge starting advantage. Wild Growth is a good card and yes, if you're top-decking in the lategame Wild Growth will do a bit more but in every other situation Burgeoning outpaces it by miles.
Actually, it depends on the support. Specifically, wild growth can beat burgeoning with earthcraft very easily. It is also better the turn you play it because it is efficiently free from the second turn on.
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"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin
Burgeoning is much more explosive, that much is true.
I've been playing with the card a lot in the past couple months, and there are multiplayer games where I end up on turn two with 4-5 lands, which is just back-breaking for my opponents.
Burgeoning is technically less consistent because it technically can do actual nothing assuming that you never have a land in hand. The real question is "do you care about technical technicalities?" or "do you want to win games of Magic?" Burgeoning vastly outperforms Wild Growth 97% of the time and can figuratively win games on its own as early as turn 3. Turn 1 Burgeoning, turn 2 Windfall turn 3 untap with 9 lands in play. That's it. It's that simple.
To the people talking about Wild Growth/Utopia Sprawl/Overgrowth + Arbor Elf/Voyaging Satyr/Garruk Wildspeaker you do realize that we're comparing 1-card combos to 2-card combos right? When you go turn 1 Arbor Elf turn 2 Overgrowth on turn 3 you untap with 6 mana. That's assuming that you get your dream curve and that your Elf survives. With Burgeoning you simply cast it and assuming that you have the lands you get to untap on turn 2 with 5 lands in play. Lands. I.e. things that don't die to Innocent Blood and whatnot. With Bouncelands it's trivially easy to go 5-for-5 by turn 2 and if we start to assume 2-card combos then toss in Windfall for turn 2 and now you get to untap on turn 3 with 9 lands in play. That takes the same amount of cards as Arbor Elf + Wild Growth/Overgrowth except it's better and it digs you into more action. Burgeoning is many orders of magnitude more powerful than Wild Growth.
My question would be then, is there a point where burgeoning is too oppressive and will make people not want to play with you and utopia sprawl/wild growth should be run instead? I know your focus is on the more competitive side Prid3, but for the majority of people I would assume some sort of balance between the various decks played in the group would be appropriate. I certainly don't want to be forced to run U/G in every deck (only most haha).
"do you want to win games of Magic?" Burgeoning vastly outperforms Wild Growth 97% of the time and can figuratively win games on its own as early as turn 3. Turn 1 Burgeoning, turn 2 Windfall turn 3 untap with 9 lands in play. That's it. It's that simple.
I understand your point, you don't have to respond with a replacement card but any argument involving windfall is really weak to me. Pairing something with a card that is so broken that its restricted in vintage and banned in legacy (its too old for modern or it would absolutely be banned there too) is where most of you guys lose me.
I don't want to win games of magic bad enough to run the cards that are so overpowered that they ruin the game.
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I was the guy playing the relentless rats deck back during mirrodin and kamigawa blocks. Yes, cranial extraction was used on me. No, I didn't win much. Yes, I do have a relentless rats edh deck. No, it doesn't win much either...
My question would be then, is there a point where burgeoning is too oppressive and will make people not want to play with you and utopia sprawl/wild growth should be run instead? I know your focus is on the more competitive side Prid3, but for the majority of people I would assume some sort of balance between the various decks played in the group would be appropriate. I certainly don't want to be forced to run U/G in every deck (only most haha).
By no means am I here debating that you must run Burgeoning. The card is egregiously overpowered and much like Burning Wish I wouldn't blame anyone for banning it. The question posed by the OP is "which card is better." The answer is "Burgeoning, not close" and that's objectively true assuming that your goal is to win games of Magic. If your goal is to maximize the aggregate fun of the table then you should probably steer clear of the card. Bluntly put I don't like deciding these sorts of things for other people because it's your life, your money, your meta, etc. I like presenting the facts, highlighting powerful cards and showcasing cool synergies. That's it. What people do with that information is up to them. If you decide "untapping with 4-5 mana on turn 2 is too powerful for my meta" then that's fine. It's your call to make. My goal is to help players of all skill levels win games of Magic because I know that it's not easy for a lot of people. If you have the luxury of being able to hold back, conceal your power-level, etc. then you're probably not someone who needs to hang on to my every word to begin with. Odds are you know your stuff (relatively speaking) and can figure out deckbuilding on your own. Rather, I try to focus my efforts on the players who don't have the luxury of holding back and want to learn how to build game-winning, budget-minded lists that can compete with their peers.
FWIW Burgeoning isn't oppressive because it literally wins games or because you must pair it with Windfall. No, Burgeoning is oppressive because you can't have a bad game when you cast it on turn 1. Your probability of having a bad start that opens with Forest -> Burg is in the single digits and we all know that a good early game typically means a strong midgame and a strong midgame often gets you to the lategame in prime position. Again, this all goes back to maximizing your overall win % and I'm not blowing anyone's minds when I say "people who excel early tend to finish strong." By extension people who struggle early tend to flounder and fail. When you jam Burgeoning, a 1 CMC card that asks nothing of you, you almost always have a very strong game. That makes it a "game winning" 1 drop that dramatically improves your over all win %. Not because of any one pairing or sequence but because you get to avoid all of those non-games where your deck is too slow, too awkward, etc. to compete.
I understand your point, you don't have to respond with a replacement card but any argument involving windfall is really weak to me. Pairing something with a card that is so broken that its restricted in vintage and banned in legacy (its too old for modern or it would absolutely be banned there too) is where most of you guys lose me.
I use Windfall as my example because it's cheap ($ wise), powerful and iconic. It could be Trade Secrets, Whispering Madness, Tidings, Reforge the Soul, literally any big draw spell will work. You're not required to play exactly Windfall to untap with ~7ish mana on turn 3. The point isn't that you need Windfall, the point is that fast mana loves draw 7s and there are plenty of "fair" draw 7s. Hell, just look at Day's Undoing. Nothing wrong with that card right? Turn 1 Burg, turn 2 (spell +) Day's Undoing, no one can call you out for that right?
In this case, slow and steady doesn't win. The hare never would have lost that race anyway if it hadn't been an idiot and gotten distracted, and likewise Burgeoning will always win the fight unless something has gone off, which isn't impossible.
Burgeoning does not give any mana. It lets you play your lands quicker so if you draw it early in a game you can front end your lands but unless you are stupidly mana flooded or have a strong card draw mechanism you won't actually end up with more mana late game then you would have without it. A deck with 24 lands and burgeoning still just has 24 cards generating mana.
Wild Growth more directly gives mana. Its ramp early game and it also kinda functions as land 25-28. This makes it more likely that any card you draw will produce mana.
To me burgeoning has much more potential to cascade when combined with other cards, but is less stable then wild growth. I don't view them as doing the same thing and don't think that one is always better then the other.
Thoughts?
The only time I would consider Wild Growth over Burgeoning is in a deck built around untapping a souped-up land repeatedly, adding Overgrowth, Arbor Elf, Voyaging Satyr as friends. A well-supported Wild Growth though still can't match the power of a well-supported Burgeoning, using cards like Mystic Remora, Rhystic Study, Trade Secrets, Syphon Mind Consecrated Sphinx, or more niche engines like Mentor of the Meek or Well of Lost Dreams.
Should you run 4x B in your green decks, people will hate you.
It's that good
I've been playing with the card a lot in the past couple months, and there are multiplayer games where I end up on turn two with 4-5 lands, which is just back-breaking for my opponents.
UGTurboFogGU
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In multiplayer burgeoning is just mad ramp.
To the people talking about Wild Growth/Utopia Sprawl/Overgrowth + Arbor Elf/Voyaging Satyr/Garruk Wildspeaker you do realize that we're comparing 1-card combos to 2-card combos right? When you go turn 1 Arbor Elf turn 2 Overgrowth on turn 3 you untap with 6 mana. That's assuming that you get your dream curve and that your Elf survives. With Burgeoning you simply cast it and assuming that you have the lands you get to untap on turn 2 with 5 lands in play. Lands. I.e. things that don't die to Innocent Blood and whatnot. With Bouncelands it's trivially easy to go 5-for-5 by turn 2 and if we start to assume 2-card combos then toss in Windfall for turn 2 and now you get to untap on turn 3 with 9 lands in play. That takes the same amount of cards as Arbor Elf + Wild Growth/Overgrowth except it's better and it digs you into more action. Burgeoning is many orders of magnitude more powerful than Wild Growth.
I'll echo what noodle said: Not. Even. Close.
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I understand your point, you don't have to respond with a replacement card but any argument involving windfall is really weak to me. Pairing something with a card that is so broken that its restricted in vintage and banned in legacy (its too old for modern or it would absolutely be banned there too) is where most of you guys lose me.
I don't want to win games of magic bad enough to run the cards that are so overpowered that they ruin the game.
By no means am I here debating that you must run Burgeoning. The card is egregiously overpowered and much like Burning Wish I wouldn't blame anyone for banning it. The question posed by the OP is "which card is better." The answer is "Burgeoning, not close" and that's objectively true assuming that your goal is to win games of Magic. If your goal is to maximize the aggregate fun of the table then you should probably steer clear of the card. Bluntly put I don't like deciding these sorts of things for other people because it's your life, your money, your meta, etc. I like presenting the facts, highlighting powerful cards and showcasing cool synergies. That's it. What people do with that information is up to them. If you decide "untapping with 4-5 mana on turn 2 is too powerful for my meta" then that's fine. It's your call to make. My goal is to help players of all skill levels win games of Magic because I know that it's not easy for a lot of people. If you have the luxury of being able to hold back, conceal your power-level, etc. then you're probably not someone who needs to hang on to my every word to begin with. Odds are you know your stuff (relatively speaking) and can figure out deckbuilding on your own. Rather, I try to focus my efforts on the players who don't have the luxury of holding back and want to learn how to build game-winning, budget-minded lists that can compete with their peers.
FWIW Burgeoning isn't oppressive because it literally wins games or because you must pair it with Windfall. No, Burgeoning is oppressive because you can't have a bad game when you cast it on turn 1. Your probability of having a bad start that opens with Forest -> Burg is in the single digits and we all know that a good early game typically means a strong midgame and a strong midgame often gets you to the lategame in prime position. Again, this all goes back to maximizing your overall win % and I'm not blowing anyone's minds when I say "people who excel early tend to finish strong." By extension people who struggle early tend to flounder and fail. When you jam Burgeoning, a 1 CMC card that asks nothing of you, you almost always have a very strong game. That makes it a "game winning" 1 drop that dramatically improves your over all win %. Not because of any one pairing or sequence but because you get to avoid all of those non-games where your deck is too slow, too awkward, etc. to compete.
I use Windfall as my example because it's cheap ($ wise), powerful and iconic. It could be Trade Secrets, Whispering Madness, Tidings, Reforge the Soul, literally any big draw spell will work. You're not required to play exactly Windfall to untap with ~7ish mana on turn 3. The point isn't that you need Windfall, the point is that fast mana loves draw 7s and there are plenty of "fair" draw 7s. Hell, just look at Day's Undoing. Nothing wrong with that card right? Turn 1 Burg, turn 2 (spell +) Day's Undoing, no one can call you out for that right?
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
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Burgeoning: An unfair card that isn't always on.
In this case, slow and steady doesn't win. The hare never would have lost that race anyway if it hadn't been an idiot and gotten distracted, and likewise Burgeoning will always win the fight unless something has gone off, which isn't impossible.
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You should play the Prophet of Kruphix yourself
Could you share your decklist? I also want to try a similar deck: Burgeoning/Mystic Remora/Landfall