Capital Punishment isn't an ideal card, but I don't think it's as bad as you're making out Prid3.
I'm not going to comment on everything you and Xyx have been debating.
What I will say is that Multiplayer IME tends to embrace taking down players with the most going on, especially if they didn't have to spend the mana.
Given how political games can be when it comes to taking down *the threat*, I think this card will often be debated heavily as to how to negate the threat to the rest of the table, and that a lot of times the player with the least going on will benefit the most.
This is in the same colour as Bloodchief Ascension.... I don't see this being a bad card here.
Capital Punishment isn't an ideal card, but I don't think it's as bad as you're making out Prid3.
Is it a boring, replaceable 6 drop that could be any number of reasonable alternatives or is it a card that you're actively happy to field (even if it's only in specific shells)? Is this ever going to be the absolute best 6 drop for a given archetype or is it merely one that fills the slot? To the people who argue that this card is above "marginal filler," post a deck where this card is actively better than alternative 5-7 drops. Show us why this is a card that we should be excited about. No one cares about cherry-picked examples specifically designed to "prove" a predetermined point. I'll only give examples where the card is bad, you'll only give ones where it's good. That doesn't accomplish anything. This is why I always reference actual decks when discussion legitimately interesting cards because actual 60 card decks are what matter in a game like Magic. No card exists in a vacuum and so the other 56-59 supporting players all play a crucial role. Show us a deck where this card isn't interchangeable with Dictate of Erebos, Massacre Wurm, Sepulchral Primordial, etc. because it brings a specific set of synergies/interactions that were't already present. When I see a 6 mana punisher spell that doesn't win the game I don't see a card that deserves to be lauded. It's on-par with every other marginal mass removal spell such as Life's Finale and Cabal Conditioning which see next-to-no play. After all, there's very little incentive to fielding these kinds of cards when things like Death Cloud already exist. It doesn't matter if it's asymmetrical because all that really matter is "what wins game" and if Liliana Vess into Death Cloud (which she can tutor for) wins significantly more games than any Capital Punishment interaction then there isn't much to say about it. Can you run it any Black creature-based deck? Sure. Is it better than cards like Army of the Damned and In Garruk's Wake? Maybe, but not by much.
I'll only give examples where the card is bad, you'll only give ones where it's good. That doesn't accomplish anything.
That's perfectly fair - but I don't remember claiming the card is great
Been playing a fair bit with Stunt Double.
So far I've been using Vedalken Mastermind and Deadeye Navigator to bounce Stunt Double repeatedly for value.
The last few times I've used the deck I've blitzed the whole field once Deadeye and SD (or Sylvan Primordial) is up and running. I thought it was good when I saw it, but at 4cmc, rather than 6cmc for Duplicant, it gives us a bit more speed, even if it's not as lethal. When an opponent is playing Eldrazi, Reanimator etc., SD has pretty useful at the 4cmc slot.
That's perfectly fair - but I don't remember claiming the card is great
FWIW I was making general statements as opposed to directing all of my commentary at you. I just want to see an actual deck where Capital Punishment is anything beyond "replaceable filler." I don't need a perfect 60 card list, I don't need to see lands (just the quantity, pretend that they're all City of Brasses for all I care), I just want to see a deck where this is the 6 drop that you want to see.
That's perfectly fair - but I don't remember claiming the card is great
FWIW I was making general statements as opposed to directing all of my commentary at you. I just want to see an actual deck where Capital Punishment is anything beyond "replaceable filler." I don't need a perfect 60 card list, I don't need to see lands (just the quantity, pretend that they're all City of Brasses for all I care), I just want to see a deck where this is the 6 drop that you want to see.
I'm also having a hard time seeing how Capital Punishment competes with something like Toxic Deluge/Languish/Damnation/Crux of Fate simply followed up the next turn with a Syphon Mind or something. You play cards that are guaranteed to do what you want them to when you cast them, not ones where the best case scenario is astronomically unlikely with reasonably skilled players and requires a specific boardstate to even be possible.
Council's Judgment cards are designed for four-player games. If you're over four, they get ridiculously strong. Lieutenants of the Guard and Orchard Elemental got legitimately frightening with seven players. Thankfully, someone hate-drafted the Expropriate in the pool...
Monarch is actually really good and quite fun (especially with Leovold floating about... hooray, I'm Monarch! Oh wait...). It'll make a really good add-on module to a Multiplayer Cube with the right cards.
I drafted a Skyline Despot... and it looks really underrated. If I got it on the board, it inevitably ended someone's game (including mine at points... thanks, opponent with a Desertion...).
The card is replaceable and arguably not the best 6-drop ever, but "absolutely heinous" is sheer hyperbole.
I'd never play it nor recommend it. I wouldn't expect to see it played in competitive decks i.e. ones trying to maximize their overall win %. It's a high-risk, medium-reward card that gives your opponents a significant amount of control over its impact on the game. You'll never see it in any of my decks nor do I expect to see in ones posted by others on this forum, the EDH forum and MP Cube thread. "Absolutely heinous" might seem like hyperbole but what am I supposed to say about a card that fits that description?
"Absolutely heinous" reads to me like "considerably worse than an extra Swamp".
You're joking; you shouldn't be. Have you seen the average land count of the decks posted in this forum? Cutting your worst spells for more lands is exactly what most players should be doing.
So I've been testing Capital Punishment rather extensively and it turns out the card is just actively good. A 6 mana Plague Wind is actually a huge game and I'm perfectly content to force discards as well if that's what the table would rather have happen. It excels in Midrange Control/Combo decks that feature a critical-mass of creatures and thus that don't want to field traditional forms of mass removal such as Toxic Deluge and Damnation. Or even if it doesn't it only wants 1-2 copies total as opposed to 4-6. It's fantastic at breaking lategame board-stalls and/or stripping everyone of their last few bombs that they're desperately clinging on to. The fact that you're getting 4 total choices basically ensures that you're almost always getting roughly a 9-for-1 out of the deal which puts it well above Hex range for example.
Thanks for getting back on that! I've yet to see it cast. My meta is kinda slow to adopt new cards.
It hasn't been quick for either tbh. The main reason why I started playing with it again is because I'm re-testing Selvala's Stampede given that everyone seems to be having so much success with it. I'm even giving Regal Behemoth a go and the card isn't half-bad, especially given that he's easy to cheat out and/or tutor up with things like Fierce Empath.
I'm just curious how your testing for those two cards have been.
I've actually had bad Selvala's Stampedes but mostly it happened out of not seeing any card draw whatsoever in a deck designed to ramp to six. Definitely would not want more than a singleton given the diminishing returns you get on any "cheat" cards.
I'm testing Regal Behemoth in a deck with a number of cheat effects and I'm wondering how effective it would be.. Haven't drawn it yet.
I'm just curious how your testing for those two cards have been.
I've actually had bad Selvala's Stampedes but mostly it happened out of not seeing any card draw whatsoever in a deck designed to ramp to six. Definitely would not want more than a singleton given the diminishing returns you get on any "cheat" cards.
I'm testing Regal Behemoth in a deck with a number of cheat effects and I'm wondering how effective it would be.. Haven't drawn it yet.
I only play Selvala's Stampede as a 1-of and it's usually in either EDH or Cube so progress is slow. I haven't been blown away by it but maybe I've just hit a few below average use-cases.
Regal Behemoth I'm also testing alongside cards like Natural Order and Lure of Prey since cheating it into play on turn ~3 (or whatever) is a fairly big game. Doubled mana and doubled draw steps (you know what I mean) is absurd and Green is fantastic at maintaining board control. Card has proved to be rather formidable but it's obviously a peaks-and-valleys effect. That is, it basically auto wins the game when it's good but in the games where it dies to removal and gives someone else a Phyrexian Arena you just want to crawl into a hole and die.
I'm just curious how your testing for those two cards have been.
I've actually had bad Selvala's Stampedes but mostly it happened out of not seeing any card draw whatsoever in a deck designed to ramp to six. Definitely would not want more than a singleton given the diminishing returns you get on any "cheat" cards.
I'm testing Regal Behemoth in a deck with a number of cheat effects and I'm wondering how effective it would be.. Haven't drawn it yet.
I only play Selvala's Stampede as a 1-of and it's usually in either EDH or Cube so progress is slow. I haven't been blown away by it but maybe I've just hit a few below average use-cases.
Regal Behemoth I'm also testing alongside cards like Natural Order and Lure of Prey since cheating it into play on turn ~3 (or whatever) is a fairly big game. Doubled mana and doubled draw steps (you know what I mean) is absurd and Green is fantastic at maintaining board control. Card has proved to be rather formidable but it's obviously a peaks-and-valleys effect. That is, it basically auto wins the game when it's good but in the games where it dies to removal and gives someone else a Phyrexian Arena you just want to crawl into a hole and die.
Hmm. Judging by this, Regal Behemoth will probably not pass my tests. The build doesn't pack much in the way of defense or control, preferring to use the damage and resource generation to build up the means to essentially combo kill a player (or multiple players) in one turn of combats.
Hmm. Judging by this, Regal Behemoth will probably not pass my tests. The build doesn't pack much in the way of defense or control, preferring to use the damage and resource generation to build up the means to essentially combo kill a player (or multiple players) in one turn of combats.
Yeah you really want to be curving 1->3->4->6/7 or something if you're playing a card like Regal Behemoth.
I'm not going to comment on everything you and Xyx have been debating.
What I will say is that Multiplayer IME tends to embrace taking down players with the most going on, especially if they didn't have to spend the mana.
Given how political games can be when it comes to taking down *the threat*, I think this card will often be debated heavily as to how to negate the threat to the rest of the table, and that a lot of times the player with the least going on will benefit the most.
This is in the same colour as Bloodchief Ascension.... I don't see this being a bad card here.
Is it a boring, replaceable 6 drop that could be any number of reasonable alternatives or is it a card that you're actively happy to field (even if it's only in specific shells)? Is this ever going to be the absolute best 6 drop for a given archetype or is it merely one that fills the slot? To the people who argue that this card is above "marginal filler," post a deck where this card is actively better than alternative 5-7 drops. Show us why this is a card that we should be excited about. No one cares about cherry-picked examples specifically designed to "prove" a predetermined point. I'll only give examples where the card is bad, you'll only give ones where it's good. That doesn't accomplish anything. This is why I always reference actual decks when discussion legitimately interesting cards because actual 60 card decks are what matter in a game like Magic. No card exists in a vacuum and so the other 56-59 supporting players all play a crucial role. Show us a deck where this card isn't interchangeable with Dictate of Erebos, Massacre Wurm, Sepulchral Primordial, etc. because it brings a specific set of synergies/interactions that were't already present. When I see a 6 mana punisher spell that doesn't win the game I don't see a card that deserves to be lauded. It's on-par with every other marginal mass removal spell such as Life's Finale and Cabal Conditioning which see next-to-no play. After all, there's very little incentive to fielding these kinds of cards when things like Death Cloud already exist. It doesn't matter if it's asymmetrical because all that really matter is "what wins game" and if Liliana Vess into Death Cloud (which she can tutor for) wins significantly more games than any Capital Punishment interaction then there isn't much to say about it. Can you run it any Black creature-based deck? Sure. Is it better than cards like Army of the Damned and In Garruk's Wake? Maybe, but not by much.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
That's perfectly fair - but I don't remember claiming the card is great
Been playing a fair bit with Stunt Double.
So far I've been using Vedalken Mastermind and Deadeye Navigator to bounce Stunt Double repeatedly for value.
The last few times I've used the deck I've blitzed the whole field once Deadeye and SD (or Sylvan Primordial) is up and running. I thought it was good when I saw it, but at 4cmc, rather than 6cmc for Duplicant, it gives us a bit more speed, even if it's not as lethal. When an opponent is playing Eldrazi, Reanimator etc., SD has pretty useful at the 4cmc slot.
FWIW I was making general statements as opposed to directing all of my commentary at you. I just want to see an actual deck where Capital Punishment is anything beyond "replaceable filler." I don't need a perfect 60 card list, I don't need to see lands (just the quantity, pretend that they're all City of Brasses for all I care), I just want to see a deck where this is the 6 drop that you want to see.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I'm also having a hard time seeing how Capital Punishment competes with something like Toxic Deluge/Languish/Damnation/Crux of Fate simply followed up the next turn with a Syphon Mind or something. You play cards that are guaranteed to do what you want them to when you cast them, not ones where the best case scenario is astronomically unlikely with reasonably skilled players and requires a specific boardstate to even be possible.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
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Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
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I'd never play it nor recommend it. I wouldn't expect to see it played in competitive decks i.e. ones trying to maximize their overall win %. It's a high-risk, medium-reward card that gives your opponents a significant amount of control over its impact on the game. You'll never see it in any of my decks nor do I expect to see in ones posted by others on this forum, the EDH forum and MP Cube thread. "Absolutely heinous" might seem like hyperbole but what am I supposed to say about a card that fits that description?
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
You're joking; you shouldn't be. Have you seen the average land count of the decks posted in this forum? Cutting your worst spells for more lands is exactly what most players should be doing.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
So I've been testing Capital Punishment rather extensively and it turns out the card is just actively good. A 6 mana Plague Wind is actually a huge game and I'm perfectly content to force discards as well if that's what the table would rather have happen. It excels in Midrange Control/Combo decks that feature a critical-mass of creatures and thus that don't want to field traditional forms of mass removal such as Toxic Deluge and Damnation. Or even if it doesn't it only wants 1-2 copies total as opposed to 4-6. It's fantastic at breaking lategame board-stalls and/or stripping everyone of their last few bombs that they're desperately clinging on to. The fact that you're getting 4 total choices basically ensures that you're almost always getting roughly a 9-for-1 out of the deal which puts it well above Hex range for example.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
It hasn't been quick for either tbh. The main reason why I started playing with it again is because I'm re-testing Selvala's Stampede given that everyone seems to be having so much success with it. I'm even giving Regal Behemoth a go and the card isn't half-bad, especially given that he's easy to cheat out and/or tutor up with things like Fierce Empath.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I've actually had bad Selvala's Stampedes but mostly it happened out of not seeing any card draw whatsoever in a deck designed to ramp to six. Definitely would not want more than a singleton given the diminishing returns you get on any "cheat" cards.
I'm testing Regal Behemoth in a deck with a number of cheat effects and I'm wondering how effective it would be.. Haven't drawn it yet.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I only play Selvala's Stampede as a 1-of and it's usually in either EDH or Cube so progress is slow. I haven't been blown away by it but maybe I've just hit a few below average use-cases.
Regal Behemoth I'm also testing alongside cards like Natural Order and Lure of Prey since cheating it into play on turn ~3 (or whatever) is a fairly big game. Doubled mana and doubled draw steps (you know what I mean) is absurd and Green is fantastic at maintaining board control. Card has proved to be rather formidable but it's obviously a peaks-and-valleys effect. That is, it basically auto wins the game when it's good but in the games where it dies to removal and gives someone else a Phyrexian Arena you just want to crawl into a hole and die.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Hmm. Judging by this, Regal Behemoth will probably not pass my tests. The build doesn't pack much in the way of defense or control, preferring to use the damage and resource generation to build up the means to essentially combo kill a player (or multiple players) in one turn of combats.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Yeah you really want to be curving 1->3->4->6/7 or something if you're playing a card like Regal Behemoth.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold