Earthquake looks inferior if that's possible. These are on my list straight up, Big-Red/Red-post just got a whole more interesting. Subterranean Tremors
I really like the Goad mechanic (creature has to attack but can't attack you) such as on Grenzo, Havoc Raiser. Made a number of decks in the past that force my opponents to attack but they always want to go after me because of it, lol.
Really like Leovold, Emissary of Trest too for the "Each opponent can't draw more than one card each turn" lol.
Sanctum Prelate: Ridonkulously powerful hatebear for the competitive multiplayer crowd. Setting this at 1-3 with any combination of Sphere Effects is going to be a nightmare for degenerate spell-based archetypes to play against.
Expropriate: Absurd card that will be wildly underrated for reasons beyond me. People look at the mana cost and think "no way" despite the fact that cards like Enter the Infinite are legitimately some of the strongest multiplayer cards in the game. Anytime you can literally win the game with a single card (and this qualifies) you're looking at a high-tier finisher.
Serum Visions: A solid alternative to Impulse (well below Preordain obviously) for people looking for a cantrip that doesn't require cheap shuffle effects.
Capital Punishment: I hold the opposite view of Xyx on this one. This card seems absolutely heinous. It's not always going to be what you need when you need it and at 6 CMC you're not exactly pushing any boundaries to begin with. If this card read "each player sacs 4 dudes, discards 4 cards and loses 4 life" then sure, count me in, but this is some terrible Life's Finale (not even) that will force a discard. Seems awful.
Phyrexian Arena: Glad to see this reprinted. Starting any deck with 4x Dark Ritual and 4x Arena is a great place to be.
Inquisition of Kozilek: Much needed reprint for the competitive community. As with Thoughtseize and Unmask anything that can strip permission/combo pieces for 0-1 CMC is solid.
Subterranean Tremors: I think that Earthquake is one of the most criminally underplayed cards in the game and this is an extremely compelling alternative. You can't ding players/PWers but it also doesn't nuke your own life total and the "bonuses" are likely enough to offset any risks incurred.
Burning Wish: I hate that Wishes are coming back. These cards are egregiously degenerate in multiplayer games given their ability to nab anything from your collection. They should all be banned IMO.
Birds of Paradise: Stellar form of acceleration and color fixing. Glad to see it back.
Burgeoning: Oppressive staple for any Gx shell that has utterly absurd applications in decks with Bouncelands. Untapping with 5 mana on turn 2 isn't even remotely fair. For best results pair with mass card draw such as Mystic Remora.
Kaya, Ghost Assassin: Of all her modes the only one that interests me is her 0. I just want to cast and blink Gray Merchant of Asphodel or Sepulchral Primordial every turn. I don't understand why people seem to care about her other modes (they suck) because a free, uninteractive Blink engine is actually insanely powerful. Also, this card with mass removal is nuts. Cast her, blink something, untap, blink a fatty then Death Cloud or Cataclysm or Jokulhaups or whatever. Next turn untap with the biggest thing in play and start locking people out with her "Syphon Mind" mode or whatever. Seems solid.
Leovold, Emissary of Trest: :O! Notion Thief lite as your Commander? Sign me up! Pairing this guy with Wheels is disgusting and he offers fantastic protection to Laboratory Maniac combos. Go ahead, try using your spot removal! The card draw clause is reasonable and I love anything that makes Bloom Tender busted. He's 3 CMC (i.e. he comes down on turn 2 in most green decks), he's a creature, he's an Elf, he's the 3 good colors, what's not to love about this beast?
Queen Marchesa: Mardu Stax already has Alesha, Who Smiles at Death and Kaalia of the Vast so I don't expect her to makes waves in EDH. As a generic threat she's reasonable but less exciting than you probably think. That being said I have low expectations for the Monarch mechanic in general. I dunno, I see a terrible Ophiomancer, draw engine hybrid who has the massive drawback of coming down, dying and giving someone else a "Phyrexian Arena" of sorts. All I can say is that I personally won't be playing any Monarch cards if these are Wizard's best offerings.
Can I just get this out of the way? Lack of Damnation reprint is disappointing.
There are some fantastic reprints in here and a few cards that will play well in MP. I think we can comfortably say that this is a far better bang/buck set than Eternal Masters was.
Hmm.... now that more cards are spoiled, there are a few seriously good ones I want to get. I'm liking this set a lot. Salvala, Heart of the Wilds looks ridiculous. Show and Tell & Followed Footsteps get reprints - all good stuff.
Show, Salvala & Recruiter are reason enough to buy some packs of Conspiracy alone, let alone all the other cards that will be worth decent coin. There's so much good stuff here in this set!
Sanctum Prelate is another good one. New Grenzo looks okay without being stellar, might fit into my gob deck.
I like Capital Punishment. I think the way Xyx describes it, sounds just like how it would work in my group.
Stunt Double What? Clone with FLASH?!?! THIS is a card I can get excited about. Flash effects this powerful in a colour that cares about instants is massive. Sign me up!!
Borderland explorer has an interesting effect. The discard might be useful for Nighthowler-style decks that care about graveyards, but I think we have better options here.
I think capital punishment is being seriously overrated. When you're paying 6 mana for a spell you need something either very strong and consistent, or high variance and game ending, and this one is neither. Opponents are gonna collude so it wiffs once in awhile. I mean if everyone has one or two creatures its gonna be pay 6 for innocent blood + everyone discard 1 card. Even if it becomes a board wipe, it's a life's finale which is a card I find very underwhelming. Also, many good strategies WANT to discard things, so this may help them. If everone has creatures, they will agree to discard a bunch of cards and then kill you before you get another turn. Giving your opponents these choices means that things arn't likely to go your way. Even with illusion of choice, someone other than you is likely to come out happy and its an underwhelming 2 card combo. Sure, best case scenario its great, but it won't do enough on average for the cost.
I'm not usually a fan of punisher cards but Capital Punishment's worst case scenario is "Each opponent sacrifices a creature and discards his or her hand".
No it's not. It's not even close to being that. I would absolutely love to have access to that card for my Asylum Visitor + Waste Not decks. If your opponents elect to discard their hands because they have full boards guess who's not living to untap? The idea that it reliably generates meaningful value is utter nonsense since your opponents always have the option to mitigate the damage that it deals to themselves. People playing noncreature decks will gladly support your over-costed Barter in Blood and if everyone is on some midrange nonsense and you spent your turn tapping out doing nothing then you die.
About Selvala, Heart of the Wilds... I don't like potentially giving other people free cards, but she does tap for an awful lot of mana, especially for a 3-drop. Even without any assistance whatsoever, she already taps for 2. It's kind of hard to go wrong there.
Oh lord if she inherently tapped for 2 she's be bonkers. Sadly she only taps for 1 innately because otherwise she'd be an auto-include in just about everything.
I feel like Goad is suicidal. I would never play that in MP. Folks don't like 'puppet masters' in MP--think about how fun it is to get Mindslavered. In my experience, they're gonna decide to just gang up and kill you first. Good luck with it.
I know... punisher cards suck yadda yadda, but that reply seems a bit knee-jerk-ish. How can you possibly get a worse outcome than "Each opponent sacrifices a creature and discards a card"?
So Smallpox? You're not making the strongest case here.
You may expect a bit more from a 6-mana spell, but it takes a very specific set of parameters to be that underwhelming (and even then isn't entirely worthless). Like... either all of your opponents have at most one creature, or all of your opponents have at most one card. Any deviation from these narrow parameters is going to increase your value.
I don't care about whether or not it's worthless. Even Break Open has applications if you try hard enough. I care about whether or not it'll win games of Magic and from where I'm sitting it doesn't qualify. Hive Mind, 6 mana spell that can win games of Magic. Primeval Titan, 6 mana spell that can win games of Magic. Lurking Predators, 6 mana spell that can win games of Magic. Consecrated Sphinx, 6 mana spell that can win games of Magic. You get the idea. If you're trying to convince me that a 6 CMC Smallpox with potential upsides will win games of Magic then you're going to have to more than prove that it's slightly better than a 2 CMC alternative. When I open with a turn 1-2 Waste Not into Smallpox, Pox, Dark Deal, Liliana of the Veil, Mindslicer, Tasigur's Cruelty, etc. I'm setting myself up to win. This card doesn't read "each opponent discards their hand" because that would be legitimately awesome and I would slam that card in my WN brews. No, this very clearly a punisher card and it's weak for very obvious reasons. No one is going to opt for the "we all discard our hands" mode when I have a Waste Not in play because they can choose an alternative that doesn't lose the game on the spot. This isn't "punisher cards are bad blah blah blah," this is a legitimate strike against these kinds of cards. Waste Not is by far and away the strongest reason to play mass discard and if this thing doesn't work alongside it then good is it? Are you going to build a mass discard deck w/o Waste Not? And win more games as a result? No, you're not. The onus in you to prove that this is a winning Magic card. When you tap 6 mana and play your card that reads "each player sacs 2-4 creatures and discards 0-2 cards" is that better than what other people are doing at 6 CMC? When someone taps out for Lurking Predators or Consecrated Sphinx is this what you want to respond with? It doesn't even seem close to me.
Just so we're clear I want to distinguish between "value" and "game winning value." The best example that I can think of is Solemn Simulacrum. The card is unplayable trash but everyone plays him in EDH because he's "good value." You get a land, a card and a 2/2 body. If people kill it then you get a 3-for-1. Doesn't matter, card is heinous. Literally doesn't do anything and will never games of Magic for you. You get "value" from your card but never significant value that you can convert into a game win. That is, I'm not saying that Capital Punishment won't provide value. It always does "something" just like Solemn Simulacrum always does "something." My argument is that these are not Magic cards that will consistently win games of multiplayer Magic. I don't mean that literally, I don't expect every card to literally win games on its own, but I do expect my cards to meaningfully contribute to that end. I want my opponents my cast things like Solemn and Cap Pun because those are not cards that I will ever care about playing against. If I want my opponents to play certain cards against me then how good can they realistically be?
Yes, yes, we get it, you're obsessed with Waste Not. But not every deck is a Waste Not deck.
No but it's the card that you play if you want to convert mass discard into a game win. I've been playing Pox decks unsuccessfully for almost 2 decades (I love the archetype even though it never wins) and my win % with all flavours of the build were abysmal until Waste Not was printed. It legitimately enables sub turn 4 kills on a routine basis which allows it to compete with real decks. Every deck isn't a Waste Not deck but every winning multiplayer mass discard deck is a Waste Not deck.
No, but what are you using the card for? If your opponents have a board full of creatures and you cast this as your mass removal spell won't they simply elect to pitch their hands and kill you after you've wasted your turn casting a 6 CMC Innocent Blood? They might all be down 3 cards in hand but you're dead. If people don't have much in the way of creatures then it's a Life's Finale. No one even plays Life's Finale.
Ah, your go-to cop-out. And right away, too. Of course it's up to me to supply data that you know isn't there. (And even if there was, there'd be no way to get it to you. (And even if there were, you'd just dismiss it anyway.)) It's getting a bit cliché. Did you run out of actual arguments?
I don't actually expect you to post empirical data. I want to see what a good deck that contains the card would look like. I've already explained to you why I think that the card is bad. The best decks don't care about creatures and employ degenerate combos to win. They don't care about a 6 CMC Wrath of God because that doesn't effect them in the slightest. If you're facing fair, creature-based decks and you jam this when people have a whack of creatures in play then the same thing happens when you cast Cabal Conditioning. People go "**** you" and kill you because you literally pissed the entire table off without effecting the board. Yes, you get an Innocent Blood at the very least but come turn 6 that's not going to pass muster.
But seriously, why wouldn't "each opponent sacs some dudes and discards some cards" be good?
Because it's 6 mana and you don't get to reliably control the quantities. You can't force each opponent to pitch their hand if you're playing a mass discard deck nor can you force it to be a Damnation when you're significantly behind on board.
You know that that's not true. Nature's Lore and Three Visits fetching untapped duals is God-tier whereas Skyshroud Claim is a marginal playable at best by comparison. It's "double Nature's Lore" but it's not nearly as competitive because it's significantly slower. Now look at Boundless Realms or whatever and you'll see that it's not remotely playable. Exploration is bonkers whereas Azusa, Lost but Seeking is barely playable. Multiplayer Magic is all about speed because the sooner that you can do something broken the better. Early advantage can be snowballed all throughout the game and so the quicker than you can enact something oppressive the better.
Especially when you factor in that it doesn't affect the caster. (You did read that, right? You keep implying it affects each player.)
What I'm saying is that cards like Pox (that effect you) win more games of Magic on average because you can easily mitigate their blow-back and leverage the fact that they cost a fraction of the mana. Going turn 2 Waste Not turn 3 Pox is devastating whereas casting Capital Punishment on turn 6 is far from special regardless of what it was preceded by.
I think we could all benefit from a bit of toning down on the language here...
In any case, I do think that while there are situations Capital Punishment could be good, your opponents are strongly incentivized to collude to select all of one mode, whichever hurts them less. "Discarding six" doesn't hurt too much with two cards in hand and "Sacrificing six" means little to those with few or no meaningful creatures. Yes, it's the classic "punisher" critique but there really is a reason almost every hyped punisher card disappoints.
As for other cards, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Regal Behemoth! A Mirari's Wake effect on legs that draws you potentially multiple cards is pretty exciting in green- all you need is an evasive creature to take back the monarchy on your turn. Yes it will attract removal but green can provide shroud or indestructible, or even flash it in before your turn. One untap with it should give you a huge advantage anyway.
As for other cards, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Regal Behemoth! A Mirari's Wake effect on legs that draws you potentially multiple cards is pretty exciting in green- all you need is an evasive creature to take back the monarchy on your turn. Yes it will attract removal but green can provide shroud or indestructible, or even flash it in before your turn. One untap with it should give you a huge advantage anyway.
My set review is nearly complete and rest assured that I give him some love. Spoiler alert: the first 9 pages are devoted to Leovold, Emissary of Trest. Why the **** was that card printed?
the first is: which do you believe has the more powerful ability? Grenzo, Havoc Raiser with the goad ability? or Adriana, Captain of the Guard with the melee ability?
second question: just to be clear on the goad mechanic, if i were to goad a players creatures but we are the last two remaining players then the creatures that are goaded are still able to attack me because there are no other players left in the game right?
the first is: which do you believe has the more powerful ability? Grenzo, Havoc Raiser with the goad ability? or Adriana, Captain of the Guard with the melee ability?
Of those 2 Adriana's is more likely to win games of Magic. That being said Grenzo's ability to generate card advantage is extremely relevant and jamming that on a 2 CMC threat is powerful given that you can always pick blockers off with Red's stellar suite of removal. Still, Adriana is actually decent in token-based archetypes because if you do attack 7 players with 1/1s you do convert them into 8/8s. That ostensibly turns her into a Craterhoof Behemoth. That's clearly an above-average use-case scenario but it illustrates the fact that she has a high power-ceiling in large metas. Worst-case scenario she's a do-nothing 4/4 for 5, I'm not suggesting otherwise, but the card has potential.
second question: just to be clear on the goad mechanic, if i were to goad a players creatures but we are the last two remaining players then the creatures that are goaded are still able to attack me because there are no other players left in the game right?
And the funny thing is that the best-case scenario of "wipe all the boards and discard all the hands" is also better!
Except that's a wildly inaccurate statement. My opponent jammed a turn 1 Dark Ritual into Entomb and Exhume on Griselbrand. What % of the time does this function as as Innocent Blood? 0%. My opponents are curving out with threats. What % of time does this Toxic Deluge the board on turn 3? 0%. My opponent has 50 creatures in play, how frequently does this card Damnation the board? 0%. My opponent drew their deck with Trade Secrets, what % of the time does this Mindslicer them? 0%. The card has hard limits based on players and can't even come close to competing with the most powerful of mass removal/discard. Nothing about this card reads "each players pitches their hand and sacs their board." You're grossly exaggerating it's power-ceiling because it doesn't come close to offering the same value that cheap mass removal/discard can offer.
Capital Punishment is relevant in exactly one scenario: each opponent has ~3+ creatures in play, ~3+ cards in hand, you have a relatively stable board yourself and you're not banking on any specific outcome. That's basically it. If you need it to be an In Garruk's Wake then the card sucks. If you need it to be a Cabal Conditioning then the card sucks. If you're behind on-board when you cast it then the card sucks. If you've already won then it sucks. If you've already lost then it sucks. You need a board stall, you need a solid board yourself and you need everyone to have a whack of creatures and cards in hand. Does that scenario occur? Yes, absolutely. Will it frequently occur? Sure, assuming a fair metagame then that's a fairly common occurrence. Does that make this card an exciting, powerful, above-the-curve 6 drop? No, not even close. This is a marginal playable at best that could reasonably be any number of alternatives. Take any 6 drop under the sun and it's just as good if not better. That being said whereas most 6 drops are basically always good this one has the unfortunate function of being a punisher card. This means that when people don't have big boards it literally doesn't do anything relevant. If no one has cards in hands it's heinous. Whereas you can blindly jam a Grave Titan and have it do things this is a card that only operates when certain conditions are met. If 2 of your adversaries show up with control, stax, prison, pillow-fort, etc. grats on your 6 CMC Mindlash Sliver. Then get to punish the crap out of you for no other reason than the fact that you allowed them to. That happens. I mean, this is multiplayer. What if someone comes with Storm, another person Stax, Elf-ball for a third and Reanimator for a 4th? Is this a card that you want in your deck? 6 mana conditional interaction? Because whereas Innocent Blood, Smallpox and Toxic Deluge interact with a fast Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur this doesn't. When the Elf player Natural Orders out a Craterhoof Behemoth on turn 4 this doesn't do anything. When the Storm players goes with with Burgeoning into Windfall into Waste Not/Leovold, Emissary of Trest/Notion Thief into Wheel of Fortune you're already dead.
Capital Punishment simply hurts people. However, you can't focus the damage as to where you need it to be in any particular scenario.
It might be amusing to try and play this to see how much bickering goes on with the vote choices among a group, but when my back is to a wall and I need a tool to bail me out of certain scenarios, I cannot count on this whether the threat be a swarm or a fistful of expensive blue game winners.
This is even in the context of very fair metagames.
Thank you for elaborately pointing out that cards are bad in their worst-case scenarios. I fail to see how that relates to my best-case scenario statement, though.
Your best case scenario is imaginary. Capital Punishment can never kill every creature in play and force each opponent to discard their hands. It's bound by a finite variable which is "number of players." It's literally impossible for CP to Damnation someone's 20 creature board if there's only 4 players in the game. Period. CP's best-case scenario is forcing players to sacrifice or discard N cards total where N is the number of players.
You're not exactly presenting fair arguments, you know?
Are you asking me why turn 2 Dimir Signet turn 3 Damnation is good against Elf-ball?
Also, why do you assume that Grave Titan has to be hard-cast? There's a reason why I recommend playing cards like Smallpox and Pox and part of it so that you can support them with some Animate Deads to recur some fatties. A combination of land destruction, discard and pressure is exactly what you want against Storm and Grave Titan gives them exactly 2 turns to go off while you pummel them with Smallpoxes, Collective Brutalitys, Liliana of the Veils, Poxes, Tasigur's Crueltys, etc.
FWIW I don't even think that Grave Titan is good, it's simply the first 6 drop that came to mind.
You're trying to achieve a technical win as opposed to a practical one. Toxic Deluge's best-case scenario is extremely powerful because the card ostensibly reads "3 mana destroy all creatures." In practice that's the type of effect that will consistently enable you to win games of multiplayer Magic. Mindslicer same thing. You can construct scenarios where Capital Punishment is the better card to draw but what matters is "which cards will consistently win games of multiplayer Magic?" and not "which card is better in these cherry-picked examples?" Toxic Deluge and Mindslicer will, Capital Punishment won't.
I'm not arguing that Capital Punishment isn't powerful if certain conditions are met. I recognize that it has applications. What I'm saying is that this isn't a consistently worthwhile effect at 6 CMC. This card will not meaningfully contribute to the goal of "winning the game" very reliably. Alternatively I can confidently state that if you play 1x Toxic Deluge in all of your Black decks that it will. You will consistently be able to extract meaningful value from it. It will actively boost your overall win % regardless of the setting, level of competition, format, number of players, presence of teams, etc.
Sure, because why wouldn't I have 72 mana available for those Sphere of Safetys?
When your opponent is jamming (turn 1 Entomb) turn 2 Smallpox turn 3 Animate Dead turn 4 Pox it's not that easy to jam a whack of 3-5 drops, especially when Dark Ritual is around to speed the process up. Clearly if you're facing Legacy Enchantress and they have an average (or better) draw you then you're going to get stomped but that's true for any creature-based deck facing a true Prison lock. Still, the Black deck can easily ultimate Liliana of the Veil, splash Back to Nature, employ Leyline of the Void + Helm of Obedience, nut draw with Waste Not, or even VictimizeMikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion. By no means should White-based Enchantress/Prison decks dissuade you.
No, I was talking about on-curve scenarios. Moving the goalposts to include ramp is going to muddle the issue even further.
Wait wait wait. Let me get this straight. You're willing to accept the idea of an Elf-ball deck nut-drawing into a turn 4 win but the second that I suggest "ramp into mass removal" in multiplayer I'm moving the goal-post? Ok, let's do it your way and use your parameters. Post an Elf-ball curve that wins on turn 4 without ramping. After all, ramp throws off the math and muddies the issue and so we can't have that. If my sequences are forced to adhere to restrictions then so are yours. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. If we have assume "no ramp" for simplicity's sake then it has to apply to both decks. So yeah, by all means, post an Elf curve that doesn't ramp and that handily beats a turn 4 Damnation. There's absolutely no way that I'm going to sit here and argue with you if your baseline assumptions are "Elf deck nut draws every game" and "Control deck isn't allowed to ramp or cast any spell other than Damnation."
"Oh, but Prid3, it's ridiculous to suggest that an Elf deck wouldn't be casting ramp early on." No kidding. It's equally ridiculous to argue that an UB Control deck can't jam a turn 2 Dimir Signet or Fellwar Stone simply because it doesn't suit your agenda. If the Elf deck is allowed to open with turn 1 Llanowar Elves turn 2 Elvish Archdruid why isn't the Control deck allowed to curve turn 2 Fellwar Stone turn 3 Damnation or a basic turn 3 Toxic Deluge? Sprinkle in things like Innocent Blood (castable on turn 2 off of Fellwar Stone) and Massacre as needed. Am I not being consistent and holding both curves to the same standards?
I agree with you that once you start assuming specific curves and combos that things get muddy. I wouldn't deny that for a second. Still, I'm not going to sit idly by as you assume "Elf-ball nut draws, Control deck doesn't." If both decks aren't being held to the same standards then there's absolutely nothing worthwhile to be gained from these discussions.
Uhh, sure, but I don't see what any of that has to do with my criticism of your suggestion that a random Grave Titan would work better against a pillow fort than Capital Punishment.
What does CP do against creatureless decks? They choose the Innocent Blood mode and lose nothing but a single card in hand. You pay 6 mana to Raven's Crime them. Are you arguing that Raven's Crime will win more games than Grave Titan against a Prison deck?
Feel free to assume whatever you want. That being said for someone who likes to call out "moving goal-posts" you seem to be doing a lot of that yourself. When I say Damnation, a card that you reliably cast on turn 4 without support, you say that it's too slow. Suddenly a turn 4 Capital Punishment is fast enough to get the job done? Where's the consistency in your statements?
You've gone on record countless times explaining how you purposely build weaker decks in order to avoid oppressing your personal metagame. Does it surprise you to learn that others follow suit?
You're comparing a "Prison deck" to "Grave Titan" as if the latter exists in a vacuum. It doesn't. "Grave Titan" isn't an archetype in of itself. Rather, it's merely a cog in a larger network of gears.
Good to see them reprinting Phyrexian Arena, Desertion, Burgeoning etc.
Recruiter of the Guard is out of my budget range. Very good card.
Earthquake looks inferior if that's possible. These are on my list straight up, Big-Red/Red-post just got a whole more interesting.
Subterranean Tremors
Anything you guys are looking at?
Really like Leovold, Emissary of Trest too for the "Each opponent can't draw more than one card each turn" lol.
I see some nice deckbuilding potential in sanctum prelate. I think these kinds of cards are really good. I find void winnower underplayed.
That one draws groans at my table. I don't know why....
I'm liking the Monarch mechanic. Looking forward to seeing what other support it's going to get.
Sanctum Prelate: Ridonkulously powerful hatebear for the competitive multiplayer crowd. Setting this at 1-3 with any combination of Sphere Effects is going to be a nightmare for degenerate spell-based archetypes to play against.
Expropriate: Absurd card that will be wildly underrated for reasons beyond me. People look at the mana cost and think "no way" despite the fact that cards like Enter the Infinite are legitimately some of the strongest multiplayer cards in the game. Anytime you can literally win the game with a single card (and this qualifies) you're looking at a high-tier finisher.
Illusion of Choice: Between Council's Judgment, Plea for Power and Expropriate this card is looking rather solid.
Serum Visions: A solid alternative to Impulse (well below Preordain obviously) for people looking for a cantrip that doesn't require cheap shuffle effects.
Capital Punishment: I hold the opposite view of Xyx on this one. This card seems absolutely heinous. It's not always going to be what you need when you need it and at 6 CMC you're not exactly pushing any boundaries to begin with. If this card read "each player sacs 4 dudes, discards 4 cards and loses 4 life" then sure, count me in, but this is some terrible Life's Finale (not even) that will force a discard. Seems awful.
Phyrexian Arena: Glad to see this reprinted. Starting any deck with 4x Dark Ritual and 4x Arena is a great place to be.
Inquisition of Kozilek: Much needed reprint for the competitive community. As with Thoughtseize and Unmask anything that can strip permission/combo pieces for 0-1 CMC is solid.
Grenzo, Havoc Raiser: He's no Edric, Spymaster of Trest but he's a relevant Red creature with power 2 or less (Grenzo, Dungeon Warden, Alesha, Who Smiles at Death) and will see play as a result.
Subterranean Tremors: I think that Earthquake is one of the most criminally underplayed cards in the game and this is an extremely compelling alternative. You can't ding players/PWers but it also doesn't nuke your own life total and the "bonuses" are likely enough to offset any risks incurred.
Burning Wish: I hate that Wishes are coming back. These cards are egregiously degenerate in multiplayer games given their ability to nab anything from your collection. They should all be banned IMO.
Selvala, Heart of the Wilds: The comments that I read pertaining to this card absolutely blow my mind. This card is utterly ridiculous and could see endless amounts of play. Kessig Wolf Run, Umezawa's Jitte, Animate Dead, Show and Tell, Grafted Wargear, Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Eureka, Natural Order, Defense of the Heart there's endless ways to abuse her tap ability and the card draw is simply icing on the cake. Turn 4 Natural Order your Elvish Mystic into a Worldspine Wurm, draw a card and tap for 15 mana? Are you serious? How are people not excited about this monstrosity?
Birds of Paradise: Stellar form of acceleration and color fixing. Glad to see it back.
Burgeoning: Oppressive staple for any Gx shell that has utterly absurd applications in decks with Bouncelands. Untapping with 5 mana on turn 2 isn't even remotely fair. For best results pair with mass card draw such as Mystic Remora.
Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast: Shattergang Brothers Stax loves seeing Artifact Creatures. Card is also fantastic in Jokulhaups style decks that nuke the board with a PWer in play. Presumably you can Faithless Looting something away (Ward of Bones for example) at which point people are kinda screwed.
Kaya, Ghost Assassin: Of all her modes the only one that interests me is her 0. I just want to cast and blink Gray Merchant of Asphodel or Sepulchral Primordial every turn. I don't understand why people seem to care about her other modes (they suck) because a free, uninteractive Blink engine is actually insanely powerful. Also, this card with mass removal is nuts. Cast her, blink something, untap, blink a fatty then Death Cloud or Cataclysm or Jokulhaups or whatever. Next turn untap with the biggest thing in play and start locking people out with her "Syphon Mind" mode or whatever. Seems solid.
Leovold, Emissary of Trest: :O! Notion Thief lite as your Commander? Sign me up! Pairing this guy with Wheels is disgusting and he offers fantastic protection to Laboratory Maniac combos. Go ahead, try using your spot removal! The card draw clause is reasonable and I love anything that makes Bloom Tender busted. He's 3 CMC (i.e. he comes down on turn 2 in most green decks), he's a creature, he's an Elf, he's the 3 good colors, what's not to love about this beast?
Queen Marchesa: Mardu Stax already has Alesha, Who Smiles at Death and Kaalia of the Vast so I don't expect her to makes waves in EDH. As a generic threat she's reasonable but less exciting than you probably think. That being said I have low expectations for the Monarch mechanic in general. I dunno, I see a terrible Ophiomancer, draw engine hybrid who has the massive drawback of coming down, dying and giving someone else a "Phyrexian Arena" of sorts. All I can say is that I personally won't be playing any Monarch cards if these are Wizard's best offerings.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
There are some fantastic reprints in here and a few cards that will play well in MP. I think we can comfortably say that this is a far better bang/buck set than Eternal Masters was.
Salvala, Heart of the Wilds looks ridiculous. Show and Tell & Followed Footsteps get reprints - all good stuff.
Show, Salvala & Recruiter are reason enough to buy some packs of Conspiracy alone, let alone all the other cards that will be worth decent coin. There's so much good stuff here in this set!
Sanctum Prelate is another good one. New Grenzo looks okay without being stellar, might fit into my gob deck.
I like Capital Punishment. I think the way Xyx describes it, sounds just like how it would work in my group.
Stunt Double What? Clone with FLASH?!?! THIS is a card I can get excited about. Flash effects this powerful in a colour that cares about instants is massive. Sign me up!!
Grenzo's Ruffians. I've been waiting for more cards like Hydra Omnivore, Caller of the Pack, Pestilence Demon etc., but this isn't exactly what I was hoping for. Even for a goblin deck, I think we have better options.
Borderland explorer has an interesting effect. The discard might be useful for Nighthowler-style decks that care about graveyards, but I think we have better options here.
No it's not. It's not even close to being that. I would absolutely love to have access to that card for my Asylum Visitor + Waste Not decks. If your opponents elect to discard their hands because they have full boards guess who's not living to untap? The idea that it reliably generates meaningful value is utter nonsense since your opponents always have the option to mitigate the damage that it deals to themselves. People playing noncreature decks will gladly support your over-costed Barter in Blood and if everyone is on some midrange nonsense and you spent your turn tapping out doing nothing then you die.
Oh lord if she inherently tapped for 2 she's be bonkers. Sadly she only taps for 1 innately because otherwise she'd be an auto-include in just about everything.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I DO have high hopes for Selvala's Stampede. That card has a very good pedigree in MP. Either case, I'm good with that. Vote away, chums.
Looks positively GOOFY.
I also think Grenzo's Ruffians is pretty sexy/clever.
I feel like Goad is suicidal. I would never play that in MP. Folks don't like 'puppet masters' in MP--think about how fun it is to get Mindslavered. In my experience, they're gonna decide to just gang up and kill you first. Good luck with it.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
So Smallpox? You're not making the strongest case here.
I don't care about whether or not it's worthless. Even Break Open has applications if you try hard enough. I care about whether or not it'll win games of Magic and from where I'm sitting it doesn't qualify. Hive Mind, 6 mana spell that can win games of Magic. Primeval Titan, 6 mana spell that can win games of Magic. Lurking Predators, 6 mana spell that can win games of Magic. Consecrated Sphinx, 6 mana spell that can win games of Magic. You get the idea. If you're trying to convince me that a 6 CMC Smallpox with potential upsides will win games of Magic then you're going to have to more than prove that it's slightly better than a 2 CMC alternative. When I open with a turn 1-2 Waste Not into Smallpox, Pox, Dark Deal, Liliana of the Veil, Mindslicer, Tasigur's Cruelty, etc. I'm setting myself up to win. This card doesn't read "each opponent discards their hand" because that would be legitimately awesome and I would slam that card in my WN brews. No, this very clearly a punisher card and it's weak for very obvious reasons. No one is going to opt for the "we all discard our hands" mode when I have a Waste Not in play because they can choose an alternative that doesn't lose the game on the spot. This isn't "punisher cards are bad blah blah blah," this is a legitimate strike against these kinds of cards. Waste Not is by far and away the strongest reason to play mass discard and if this thing doesn't work alongside it then good is it? Are you going to build a mass discard deck w/o Waste Not? And win more games as a result? No, you're not. The onus in you to prove that this is a winning Magic card. When you tap 6 mana and play your card that reads "each player sacs 2-4 creatures and discards 0-2 cards" is that better than what other people are doing at 6 CMC? When someone taps out for Lurking Predators or Consecrated Sphinx is this what you want to respond with? It doesn't even seem close to me.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
No but it's the card that you play if you want to convert mass discard into a game win. I've been playing Pox decks unsuccessfully for almost 2 decades (I love the archetype even though it never wins) and my win % with all flavours of the build were abysmal until Waste Not was printed. It legitimately enables sub turn 4 kills on a routine basis which allows it to compete with real decks. Every deck isn't a Waste Not deck but every winning multiplayer mass discard deck is a Waste Not deck.
No, but what are you using the card for? If your opponents have a board full of creatures and you cast this as your mass removal spell won't they simply elect to pitch their hands and kill you after you've wasted your turn casting a 6 CMC Innocent Blood? They might all be down 3 cards in hand but you're dead. If people don't have much in the way of creatures then it's a Life's Finale. No one even plays Life's Finale.
I don't actually expect you to post empirical data. I want to see what a good deck that contains the card would look like. I've already explained to you why I think that the card is bad. The best decks don't care about creatures and employ degenerate combos to win. They don't care about a 6 CMC Wrath of God because that doesn't effect them in the slightest. If you're facing fair, creature-based decks and you jam this when people have a whack of creatures in play then the same thing happens when you cast Cabal Conditioning. People go "**** you" and kill you because you literally pissed the entire table off without effecting the board. Yes, you get an Innocent Blood at the very least but come turn 6 that's not going to pass muster.
I'm also saying that fielding cards that consistently do something tend to win more games than ones such as these. If I want mass removal I will always use Toxic Deluge and Damnation. If I want mass discard I will always use Smallpox, Liliana of the Veil, Necrogen Mists, Pox, Delirium Skeins, Dark Deal, Mindslicer, Tasigur's Cruelty, etc. That way I can build around the effects because I know exactly what my cards will do when I draw them.
Because it's 6 mana and you don't get to reliably control the quantities. You can't force each opponent to pitch their hand if you're playing a mass discard deck nor can you force it to be a Damnation when you're significantly behind on board.
You know that that's not true. Nature's Lore and Three Visits fetching untapped duals is God-tier whereas Skyshroud Claim is a marginal playable at best by comparison. It's "double Nature's Lore" but it's not nearly as competitive because it's significantly slower. Now look at Boundless Realms or whatever and you'll see that it's not remotely playable. Exploration is bonkers whereas Azusa, Lost but Seeking is barely playable. Multiplayer Magic is all about speed because the sooner that you can do something broken the better. Early advantage can be snowballed all throughout the game and so the quicker than you can enact something oppressive the better.
What I'm saying is that cards like Pox (that effect you) win more games of Magic on average because you can easily mitigate their blow-back and leverage the fact that they cost a fraction of the mana. Going turn 2 Waste Not turn 3 Pox is devastating whereas casting Capital Punishment on turn 6 is far from special regardless of what it was preceded by.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
In any case, I do think that while there are situations Capital Punishment could be good, your opponents are strongly incentivized to collude to select all of one mode, whichever hurts them less. "Discarding six" doesn't hurt too much with two cards in hand and "Sacrificing six" means little to those with few or no meaningful creatures. Yes, it's the classic "punisher" critique but there really is a reason almost every hyped punisher card disappoints.
As for other cards, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Regal Behemoth! A Mirari's Wake effect on legs that draws you potentially multiple cards is pretty exciting in green- all you need is an evasive creature to take back the monarchy on your turn. Yes it will attract removal but green can provide shroud or indestructible, or even flash it in before your turn. One untap with it should give you a huge advantage anyway.
Custodi Soulcaller isn't for every deck but I'm pretty excited to put it in my deck that abuses Selfless Spirit, Dauntless Escort, and Frontline Medic with Magus of the Disk and Akroma's Vengeance. Reminds me of Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, which is not a bad card to resemble.
My set review is nearly complete and rest assured that I give him some love. Spoiler alert: the first 9 pages are devoted to Leovold, Emissary of Trest. Why the **** was that card printed?
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
the first is: which do you believe has the more powerful ability? Grenzo, Havoc Raiser with the goad ability? or Adriana, Captain of the Guard with the melee ability?
second question: just to be clear on the goad mechanic, if i were to goad a players creatures but we are the last two remaining players then the creatures that are goaded are still able to attack me because there are no other players left in the game right?
Of those 2 Adriana's is more likely to win games of Magic. That being said Grenzo's ability to generate card advantage is extremely relevant and jamming that on a 2 CMC threat is powerful given that you can always pick blockers off with Red's stellar suite of removal. Still, Adriana is actually decent in token-based archetypes because if you do attack 7 players with 1/1s you do convert them into 8/8s. That ostensibly turns her into a Craterhoof Behemoth. That's clearly an above-average use-case scenario but it illustrates the fact that she has a high power-ceiling in large metas. Worst-case scenario she's a do-nothing 4/4 for 5, I'm not suggesting otherwise, but the card has potential.
Right. They must attack you.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Except that's a wildly inaccurate statement. My opponent jammed a turn 1 Dark Ritual into Entomb and Exhume on Griselbrand. What % of the time does this function as as Innocent Blood? 0%. My opponents are curving out with threats. What % of time does this Toxic Deluge the board on turn 3? 0%. My opponent has 50 creatures in play, how frequently does this card Damnation the board? 0%. My opponent drew their deck with Trade Secrets, what % of the time does this Mindslicer them? 0%. The card has hard limits based on players and can't even come close to competing with the most powerful of mass removal/discard. Nothing about this card reads "each players pitches their hand and sacs their board." You're grossly exaggerating it's power-ceiling because it doesn't come close to offering the same value that cheap mass removal/discard can offer.
Capital Punishment is relevant in exactly one scenario: each opponent has ~3+ creatures in play, ~3+ cards in hand, you have a relatively stable board yourself and you're not banking on any specific outcome. That's basically it. If you need it to be an In Garruk's Wake then the card sucks. If you need it to be a Cabal Conditioning then the card sucks. If you're behind on-board when you cast it then the card sucks. If you've already won then it sucks. If you've already lost then it sucks. You need a board stall, you need a solid board yourself and you need everyone to have a whack of creatures and cards in hand. Does that scenario occur? Yes, absolutely. Will it frequently occur? Sure, assuming a fair metagame then that's a fairly common occurrence. Does that make this card an exciting, powerful, above-the-curve 6 drop? No, not even close. This is a marginal playable at best that could reasonably be any number of alternatives. Take any 6 drop under the sun and it's just as good if not better. That being said whereas most 6 drops are basically always good this one has the unfortunate function of being a punisher card. This means that when people don't have big boards it literally doesn't do anything relevant. If no one has cards in hands it's heinous. Whereas you can blindly jam a Grave Titan and have it do things this is a card that only operates when certain conditions are met. If 2 of your adversaries show up with control, stax, prison, pillow-fort, etc. grats on your 6 CMC Mindlash Sliver. Then get to punish the crap out of you for no other reason than the fact that you allowed them to. That happens. I mean, this is multiplayer. What if someone comes with Storm, another person Stax, Elf-ball for a third and Reanimator for a 4th? Is this a card that you want in your deck? 6 mana conditional interaction? Because whereas Innocent Blood, Smallpox and Toxic Deluge interact with a fast Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur this doesn't. When the Elf player Natural Orders out a Craterhoof Behemoth on turn 4 this doesn't do anything. When the Storm players goes with with Burgeoning into Windfall into Waste Not/Leovold, Emissary of Trest/Notion Thief into Wheel of Fortune you're already dead.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
It might be amusing to try and play this to see how much bickering goes on with the vote choices among a group, but when my back is to a wall and I need a tool to bail me out of certain scenarios, I cannot count on this whether the threat be a swarm or a fistful of expensive blue game winners.
This is even in the context of very fair metagames.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Your best case scenario is imaginary. Capital Punishment can never kill every creature in play and force each opponent to discard their hands. It's bound by a finite variable which is "number of players." It's literally impossible for CP to Damnation someone's 20 creature board if there's only 4 players in the game. Period. CP's best-case scenario is forcing players to sacrifice or discard N cards total where N is the number of players.
6 mana "each opponent discards a card and sacs 2 creatures" doesn't sound especially competitive to me.
The difference being that a 1 mana Innocent Blood is actually castable on turn 1.
The same thing that every other 10/10 does; kill people.
Are you asking me why turn 2 Dimir Signet turn 3 Damnation is good against Elf-ball?
Also, why do you assume that Grave Titan has to be hard-cast? There's a reason why I recommend playing cards like Smallpox and Pox and part of it so that you can support them with some Animate Deads to recur some fatties. A combination of land destruction, discard and pressure is exactly what you want against Storm and Grave Titan gives them exactly 2 turns to go off while you pummel them with Smallpoxes, Collective Brutalitys, Liliana of the Veils, Poxes, Tasigur's Crueltys, etc.
FWIW I don't even think that Grave Titan is good, it's simply the first 6 drop that came to mind.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
A 6 mana Divination.
You're trying to achieve a technical win as opposed to a practical one. Toxic Deluge's best-case scenario is extremely powerful because the card ostensibly reads "3 mana destroy all creatures." In practice that's the type of effect that will consistently enable you to win games of multiplayer Magic. Mindslicer same thing. You can construct scenarios where Capital Punishment is the better card to draw but what matters is "which cards will consistently win games of multiplayer Magic?" and not "which card is better in these cherry-picked examples?" Toxic Deluge and Mindslicer will, Capital Punishment won't.
I'm not arguing that Capital Punishment isn't powerful if certain conditions are met. I recognize that it has applications. What I'm saying is that this isn't a consistently worthwhile effect at 6 CMC. This card will not meaningfully contribute to the goal of "winning the game" very reliably. Alternatively I can confidently state that if you play 1x Toxic Deluge in all of your Black decks that it will. You will consistently be able to extract meaningful value from it. It will actively boost your overall win % regardless of the setting, level of competition, format, number of players, presence of teams, etc.
When your opponent is jamming (turn 1 Entomb) turn 2 Smallpox turn 3 Animate Dead turn 4 Pox it's not that easy to jam a whack of 3-5 drops, especially when Dark Ritual is around to speed the process up. Clearly if you're facing Legacy Enchantress and they have an average (or better) draw you then you're going to get stomped but that's true for any creature-based deck facing a true Prison lock. Still, the Black deck can easily ultimate Liliana of the Veil, splash Back to Nature, employ Leyline of the Void + Helm of Obedience, nut draw with Waste Not, or even Victimize Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion. By no means should White-based Enchantress/Prison decks dissuade you.
Wait wait wait. Let me get this straight. You're willing to accept the idea of an Elf-ball deck nut-drawing into a turn 4 win but the second that I suggest "ramp into mass removal" in multiplayer I'm moving the goal-post? Ok, let's do it your way and use your parameters. Post an Elf-ball curve that wins on turn 4 without ramping. After all, ramp throws off the math and muddies the issue and so we can't have that. If my sequences are forced to adhere to restrictions then so are yours. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. If we have assume "no ramp" for simplicity's sake then it has to apply to both decks. So yeah, by all means, post an Elf curve that doesn't ramp and that handily beats a turn 4 Damnation. There's absolutely no way that I'm going to sit here and argue with you if your baseline assumptions are "Elf deck nut draws every game" and "Control deck isn't allowed to ramp or cast any spell other than Damnation."
"Oh, but Prid3, it's ridiculous to suggest that an Elf deck wouldn't be casting ramp early on." No kidding. It's equally ridiculous to argue that an UB Control deck can't jam a turn 2 Dimir Signet or Fellwar Stone simply because it doesn't suit your agenda. If the Elf deck is allowed to open with turn 1 Llanowar Elves turn 2 Elvish Archdruid why isn't the Control deck allowed to curve turn 2 Fellwar Stone turn 3 Damnation or a basic turn 3 Toxic Deluge? Sprinkle in things like Innocent Blood (castable on turn 2 off of Fellwar Stone) and Massacre as needed. Am I not being consistent and holding both curves to the same standards?
I agree with you that once you start assuming specific curves and combos that things get muddy. I wouldn't deny that for a second. Still, I'm not going to sit idly by as you assume "Elf-ball nut draws, Control deck doesn't." If both decks aren't being held to the same standards then there's absolutely nothing worthwhile to be gained from these discussions.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
What does CP do against creatureless decks? They choose the Innocent Blood mode and lose nothing but a single card in hand. You pay 6 mana to Raven's Crime them. Are you arguing that Raven's Crime will win more games than Grave Titan against a Prison deck?
Feel free to assume whatever you want. That being said for someone who likes to call out "moving goal-posts" you seem to be doing a lot of that yourself. When I say Damnation, a card that you reliably cast on turn 4 without support, you say that it's too slow. Suddenly a turn 4 Capital Punishment is fast enough to get the job done? Where's the consistency in your statements?
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
A turn 2 Grave Titan is still pretty good at racing a pillow-fort strategy.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Do you even understand what that term means? I've literally been referencing the same deck this entire time.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
You've gone on record countless times explaining how you purposely build weaker decks in order to avoid oppressing your personal metagame. Does it surprise you to learn that others follow suit?
You're comparing a "Prison deck" to "Grave Titan" as if the latter exists in a vacuum. It doesn't. "Grave Titan" isn't an archetype in of itself. Rather, it's merely a cog in a larger network of gears.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold