So I thought I'd give an old deck a re-do. It's consistently okay, fair and non-oppressive, I'm wondering if it's worth spending more time/money on the idea, as stuff like Wrath of God etc. really messes with it.
The idea is simple, land creatures, get lots of counters, attack. Then they printed Chandra's Ignition, which replaced Fling in my build, however Fling could still have a place. My old version also had singles of Kresh the Bloodbraided & Necropolis Regent and 2x Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord as a finisher. The old version also made use of 8x free mana (instead of land).
I've purposefully left out the flab.
Card draw, recursion, non-creature sweepers are all a possibility, but I'd like to see what you guys might suggest.
I'm considering Brawn, Mage slayer, Decimate among others.
What other cards do you guys think are worth an inclusion?
And is there a way to lessen, or even limit, Wrath effects from killing this deck?
This deck wants ramp way more than it wants Lotus Petals. I would personally field something like Carpet of Flowers to accelerate straight to 3 CMC on turn 2, 4-5 CCM on turn 3, etc.
So many fun directions you could take this in. Charnelhoard Wurm probably wants a look-in, at the very least (point Chandra's Ignition at it and stick your graveyard back in your hand for repeatable fun).
This deck wants ramp way more than it wants Lotus Petals. I would personally field something like Carpet of Flowers to accelerate straight to 3 CMC on turn 2, 4-5 CCM on turn 3, etc.
Yep, I got rid of the free mana from last time. This deck needs to hit 3cmc on T2 reliably more than anything else.
I own some Carpets too, good idea.
EDIT: Utopia Sprawl is another option, but neither re 100% consistent. I find a lot of blue mages in my group use non-islands.
So many fun directions you could take this in. Charnelhoard Wurm probably wants a look-in, at the very least (point Chandra's Ignition at it and stick your graveyard back in your hand for repeatable fun).
Ha ha, I actually have a single of that card! Didn't think of that interaction, but now you mention it that's not a bad way of using it at all.
Outside of manadorks I can't think of anything else that really fits here. I've used Carpets plenty of times in the past, but find a lot of my opponents might use blue, but not *islands*. Any other idea's?
I guess you're right, Manadorks are cheap and work. And Forgotten Ancient does make a dork useful potentially.
Burgeoning Ha! I always forget about that card? Glad I got mine a while back, it's really shot up in price!
Okay, well 4x Carpets and 2x Burgeoning sounds like a plan (that's what I have), but could easily be 6x Manadork. I don't own any Fastbond, but I'm adding it to my list. Realistically, this might be all the ramp the deck needs.
That's 59 cards. The final slot could easily be Charnelhoard Wurm, Brawn etc. but I'll have to see if a enchantment/artefact sweeper is even necessary. Ignition/Jarad can are both alternate win con's that get around most perms.
You could realistically shave a couple of lands (or ramp spells, either way). I can't imagine needing more than 28 mana sources in a deck that tops off at 5 CMC.
Don't underestimate Cauldron of Souls. The first is really freaking good given that all removal will naturally put a +1/+1 counter on all of your newly -1/-1'd threats.
Fastbond seems a better fit here than Burgeoning/Carpets. Being able to drop 3 land and a creature on turn1 with a deck that feeds off others seems pretty strong. And yeah, 4 Lands + 6 ramp is probably a little too much. I'm gonna try 23 Lands & 4 Fastbond and see where that goes. Given we have a free mulligan, searching for Fastbond is worth it. Kessig Wolf Run is a strong card, but given all the avenues to damage in this deck I just don't think it's necessary either.
Cauldron seems good. There's only one creature it doesn't really work with, the Hydra, but that's not important. 1 should be enough I guess.
Extort is a real thing in my group, so some measure of life gain may be useful, but given this deck has quite a few ways to get the damage through I still don't know if it will be absolutely needed. Another card I'm testing with is Spike Feeder. So far I'm not too sure of it. Unless the fungus or forgots is out, it doesn't do enough, but I can't think of any other creatures that can abuse all the counters flying around and gain life.
Extort is a real thing in my group, so some measure of life gain may be useful, but given this deck has quite a few ways to get the damage through I still don't know if it will be absolutely needed. Another card I'm testing with is Spike Feeder. So far I'm not too sure of it. Unless the fungus or forgots is out, it doesn't do enough, but I can't think of any other creatures that can abuse all the counters flying around and gain life.
Whip of Erebos can be useful for giving your massive creatures lifelink.
Grim Feast typically gains obnoxious quantities of life. Just so we're all on the same page it's be errata'd to read "each opponent."
A pet combo of mine involves pairing Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth with Roots of Life. Both cards are "fine" on their own but together they're utterly absurd. Again, it's been errata'd to say "each opponent."
I don't own any Craterhoof Behemoth
In all honesty though, I wasn't going to, just sayin it works with it. I'd rather play singletons of Brawn & Kessig.
(4x Fastbond will no doubt stir people up, I'll keep it to a single)
The only thing I've been finding so far, is that the deck is vulnerable to durdling and manascrew early. I gave it a go with Faithless Looting instead of Syphon Mind just for testings sake - and consistency at hitting 4 mana by turn 4 was way better. But of course we know how good Syphon Mind is....
The only thing I've been finding so far, is that the deck is vulnerable to durdling and manascrew early. I gave it a go with Faithless Looting instead of Syphon Mind just for testings sake - and consistency at hitting 4 mana by turn 4 was way better. But of course we know how good Syphon Mind is...
With 24 lands and some Explorations? Weird. It shouldn't be a serious concern assuming that you mull obviously bad hands.
Maybe add some Night's Whispers or something that generate actual CA and shave some of the Syphons? If Syphon is merely a Concentrate then it's not stellar to begin with. Shaving any of the spells would work, you could easily cut most of the numbers by 1 to support 4x Whispers for early-game draw fixing.
Alternatively Painful Truths is a solid turn 3 play that will help dig you to your 4th and 5th lands.
4x Managorger Hydra
4x Taurean Mauler
4x Corpsejack Menace
4x Forgotten Ancient
So I thought I'd give an old deck a re-do. It's consistently okay, fair and non-oppressive, I'm wondering if it's worth spending more time/money on the idea, as stuff like Wrath of God etc. really messes with it.
The idea is simple, land creatures, get lots of counters, attack. Then they printed Chandra's Ignition, which replaced Fling in my build, however Fling could still have a place. My old version also had singles of Kresh the Bloodbraided & Necropolis Regent and 2x Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord as a finisher. The old version also made use of 8x free mana (instead of land).
I've purposefully left out the flab.
Card draw, recursion, non-creature sweepers are all a possibility, but I'd like to see what you guys might suggest.
I'm considering Brawn, Mage slayer, Decimate among others.
What other cards do you guys think are worth an inclusion?
And is there a way to lessen, or even limit, Wrath effects from killing this deck?
Cheers
Your best answers to mass removal are things like draw spells/engines, mass discard, mass protection, etc.
This deck wants ramp way more than it wants Lotus Petals. I would personally field something like Carpet of Flowers to accelerate straight to 3 CMC on turn 2, 4-5 CCM on turn 3, etc.
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Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Charnelhoard Wurm probably wants a look-in, at the very least (point Chandra's Ignition at it and stick your graveyard back in your hand for repeatable fun).
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Agreed. I was going to pop 2 in, I'm doubtful it needs more than that. I think this, Regent and Kresh are probably competing for the same slots.
Sire of Insanity is one of my fave cards for giving everyone the *****s. However I must have missed Cauldron of Souls - what a cool effect!
Yep, I got rid of the free mana from last time. This deck needs to hit 3cmc on T2 reliably more than anything else.
I own some Carpets too, good idea.
EDIT: Utopia Sprawl is another option, but neither re 100% consistent. I find a lot of blue mages in my group use non-islands.
Ha ha, I actually have a single of that card! Didn't think of that interaction, but now you mention it that's not a bad way of using it at all.
Other cards I've been thinking of in small numbers;
Domri Rade, Kessig Wolf Run, Stalking Vengeance, Mossbridge Troll, Bane of Progress
Troll & Vengeance are cards that would love to be used with Ignition, but the mana cost is pretty steep, not sure how effective this might work to be.
Pathbreaker Ibex would be hilarious....
What's wrong with mana dorks? Either way you can use Gemstone Caverns, Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, Wild Growth, Utopia Sprawl, Carpet of Flowers, Burgeoning, Exploration and Fastbond to accelerate 3 drops out on turn 2.
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Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Burgeoning Ha! I always forget about that card? Glad I got mine a while back, it's really shot up in price!
Okay, well 4x Carpets and 2x Burgeoning sounds like a plan (that's what I have), but could easily be 6x Manadork. I don't own any Fastbond, but I'm adding it to my list. Realistically, this might be all the ramp the deck needs.
Here's the deck so far;
4x Forgotten Ancient
2x Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
4x Managorger Hydra
4x Taurean Mauler
3x Decimate
4x Syphon Mind
2x Burgeoning
24x Savage Lands
That's 59 cards. The final slot could easily be Charnelhoard Wurm, Brawn etc. but I'll have to see if a enchantment/artefact sweeper is even necessary. Ignition/Jarad can are both alternate win con's that get around most perms.
Don't underestimate Cauldron of Souls. The first is really freaking good given that all removal will naturally put a +1/+1 counter on all of your newly -1/-1'd threats.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
After some goldfishing....
Fastbond seems a better fit here than Burgeoning/Carpets. Being able to drop 3 land and a creature on turn1 with a deck that feeds off others seems pretty strong. And yeah, 4 Lands + 6 ramp is probably a little too much. I'm gonna try 23 Lands & 4 Fastbond and see where that goes. Given we have a free mulligan, searching for Fastbond is worth it.
Kessig Wolf Run is a strong card, but given all the avenues to damage in this deck I just don't think it's necessary either.
Cauldron seems good. There's only one creature it doesn't really work with, the Hydra, but that's not important. 1 should be enough I guess.
Extort is a real thing in my group, so some measure of life gain may be useful, but given this deck has quite a few ways to get the damage through I still don't know if it will be absolutely needed. Another card I'm testing with is Spike Feeder. So far I'm not too sure of it. Unless the fungus or forgots is out, it doesn't do enough, but I can't think of any other creatures that can abuse all the counters flying around and gain life.
It's primary role is as a low opportunity cost Trample enabler.
Whip of Erebos can be useful for giving your massive creatures lifelink.
Grim Feast typically gains obnoxious quantities of life. Just so we're all on the same page it's be errata'd to read "each opponent."
A pet combo of mine involves pairing Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth with Roots of Life. Both cards are "fine" on their own but together they're utterly absurd. Again, it's been errata'd to say "each opponent."
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Some nice options there!
I think this one is the easiest to just blindly chuck in. The activated ability would work well with Pathbreaker Ibex....
Why play an Overrun with "Suspend 1" when you're already worried about removal?
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
In all honesty though, I wasn't going to, just sayin it works with it. I'd rather play singletons of Brawn & Kessig.
Here's the list (subject to change)
6x Forest
2x Mountain
3x Swamp
3x Rootbound Crag
2x Woodland Cemetery
2x Evolving Wilds
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Carpet of Flowers
1x Fastbond
4x Managorger Hydra
4x Taurean Mauler
4x Corpsejack Menace
4x Forgotten Ancient
2x Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
1x Brawn
3x Decimate
4x Syphon Mind
1x Cauldron of Souls
2x Whip of Erebos
(4x Fastbond will no doubt stir people up, I'll keep it to a single)
The only thing I've been finding so far, is that the deck is vulnerable to durdling and manascrew early. I gave it a go with Faithless Looting instead of Syphon Mind just for testings sake - and consistency at hitting 4 mana by turn 4 was way better. But of course we know how good Syphon Mind is....
You don't have any creature tutors anyways and Overwhelming Stampede et al. don't have that "Suspend 1" restriction. I see what you're saying though.
With 24 lands and some Explorations? Weird. It shouldn't be a serious concern assuming that you mull obviously bad hands.
Maybe add some Night's Whispers or something that generate actual CA and shave some of the Syphons? If Syphon is merely a Concentrate then it's not stellar to begin with. Shaving any of the spells would work, you could easily cut most of the numbers by 1 to support 4x Whispers for early-game draw fixing.
Alternatively Painful Truths is a solid turn 3 play that will help dig you to your 4th and 5th lands.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold