I have a rat deck that wins some games and loses some games, but never really brings a smile to my face in the way that my Ion Storm deck or my Sunforger deck do. I am looking to make a change to the rat deck via Training Grounds which hopefully will make the deck feel like it has something special to do.
These are the rats that have activated abilities - as you can see, it is a short list! I am looking for recommendations to make the list more solid - whether rats are involved or not! Alternatively, a different direction to go with the rats would be equally lovely
With respect to rat tribal it's hard to overlook Marrow-Gnawer since the "Black Krenko, Mob Boss" is still very much ridiculous if left unchecked. Ogre Slumlord and Eldrazi Monument give you game against mass removal and pair well with your various token generators. Both have insane synergy with Crypt Rats as well.
Liliana of the veil is always good (it can be an honorary rat...) Its pretty expensive tho
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Ah. It's definitely an AA but apparently TG doesn't effect the AAs of creatures in zones other than the battlefield. No idea why but I'll chock it up to "it's Magic."
Sorry. You're right, Ninjutsu is an AA. Alas, activating Ninjutsu happends from you hand and the TG says "creatures you control" and a creature card in your hand is not a creature you control.
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In magic there's Harry Dresden, Fizban, Sethra Lavode, Dorotea Senjak and me...
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Sorry. You're right, Ninjutsu is an AA. Alas, activating Ninjutsu happends from you hand and the TG says "creatures you control" and a creature card in your hand is not a creature you control.
That makes sense. "Control" does have a specific meaning in Magic. Same reason you can't Threaten a creature sitting in someone's GY/hand.
Sorry. You're right, Ninjutsu is an AA. Alas, activating Ninjutsu happends from you hand and the TG says "creatures you control" and a creature card in your hand is not a creature you control.
That makes sense. "Control" does have a specific meaning in Magic. Same reason you can't Threaten a creature sitting in someone's GY/hand.
More specifically, a creature card anywhere other than on the battlefield is not a creature. That's why Giant Growth says "Target creature" and Green Sun's Zenith searches for a "creature card".
Why would he drop Tasigur for that and not a swamp?
He probably thinks that the deck could use a 24th land and Tasigur seems marginal at best given the immense amount of card advantage already present in the list. He has no cantrips, few fetchlands, no cheap removal, etc. so it's not as though he's casting them early on and you don't want to draw a bunch of lategame legendaries that you can't chain together if needed.
But my point is that cutting a Tasigur for a land isn't needed. I disagree that he needs a 24th land, per se. I would, myself, cut Trade Secrets and whips for 1cmc cantrips. That makes it much more likely that Tasigur goes down for cheap, 4 spells with cmc >3 and Coffers? Then cut a swamp for Urborg. Business time.
The Pack Rats and the Graverobbers love big mana. (Crypt rats too but that gets suicidal.)
And those TG's can be destroyed.
So I suggested adding a land to reach 24 and that land potentially adds a more than one mana because of the coffers and the Delta's. (Plus you won't need to activate the Delta's with Urborg in play unless you need an Island.)
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In magic there's Harry Dresden, Fizban, Sethra Lavode, Dorotea Senjak and me...
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
I was re-looking through the thread and saw that I missed the Necrotic Ooze suggestion before. I didn't realize that the ooze gained abilities from all graveyards! I don't expect that to be relevant all the time, but it is nice in some circumstances In any case, restarting a Pack Rat chain or using axed Marrow-Gnawer / Crypt Rats is some sweet action.
How does that work? Bringing back Erebos's Titan requires you to discard another card.
Hence "moderate synergy" as opposed to "immense synergy." A 5/5 is a big dumb idiot that clogs up the ground and dissuades people from messing with you. It will frequently have more value than a random card from your deck and having the option to upgrade a weak draw into a big blocker can be useful in some metas. It's similar to a looter in that it's able to convert unwanted draws into something more relevant. It's not a broken interaction by any means but it's still worth considering.
The strongest card in that list, in my opinion, is the Baleful Strix, that card is so strong for it's cost, I would definitely add a playset to your deck, cant go wrong with this one. Mindshrieker is also a very sick card with Training Grounds. I hope it helps.
I went ahead and added the Baleful Strix in place of the Swarm of Rats and they worked great Clamping them felt dirty.
By far the greatest interaction in the deck is drawing a second Training Grounds with Nezumi Graverobber. In the late game, I had around 8 mana, plopped down the Robber, flipped him immediately (after some earlier activations) and recurred Marrow-Gnawer, a Pack Rat, and an opponent's Fleshbag Marauder three times to clear everyone else's board.
This was exactly what I was hoping for in returning to this deck.
Problems with Tasigur, the Golden Fang - never EVER wanted to delve away my graveyard, because I have so much recursion in the form of Graverobber and Whip. Looking for a replacement here!
1) It's a real heavy hitter when you have a Training Grounds in play but can still hit pretty hard even without the Training Grounds.
2) It's harder to block since it has flying
3) It will send cards into your opponents graveyard for you to reanimate with your rat
4) You can always Skullclamp it if you are looking for something else.
4 Pack Rat
4 Nezumi Graverobber
4 Crypt Rats
2 Whip of Erebos
These are the rats that have activated abilities - as you can see, it is a short list! I am looking for recommendations to make the list more solid - whether rats are involved or not! Alternatively, a different direction to go with the rats would be equally lovely
With respect to rat tribal it's hard to overlook Marrow-Gnawer since the "Black Krenko, Mob Boss" is still very much ridiculous if left unchecked. Ogre Slumlord and Eldrazi Monument give you game against mass removal and pair well with your various token generators. Both have insane synergy with Crypt Rats as well.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
You could do life-gain, card draw, high mana, graveyard filling and reanimation of any cool target. (and two Necrotic Ooze just because you can...)
Not the most winning strategy but certainly a lot of fun!
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
And Ninjutsu (plus her regen) is even an activated ability!
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/492881-trainging-grounds-ninjutsu
Seems that Ninjutsu is not an activated ability.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Ah. It's definitely an AA but apparently TG doesn't effect the AAs of creatures in zones other than the battlefield. No idea why but I'll chock it up to "it's Magic."
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
That makes sense. "Control" does have a specific meaning in Magic. Same reason you can't Threaten a creature sitting in someone's GY/hand.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
More specifically, a creature card anywhere other than on the battlefield is not a creature. That's why Giant Growth says "Target creature" and Green Sun's Zenith searches for a "creature card".
4 Crypt Rats
4 Nezumi Graverobber
4 Swarm of Rats
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Marrow-Gnawer
4 Training Grounds
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Eldrazi Monument
4 Trade Secrets
4 Watery Grave
4 Polluted Delta
8 Swamp
3 Cabal Coffers
Obviously this would involve some proxying, so I don't really mind pricy suggestions. How does this look for mana distribution, etc.?
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Why would he drop Tasigur for that and not a swamp?
My Powered 630 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
He probably thinks that the deck could use a 24th land and Tasigur seems marginal at best given the immense amount of card advantage already present in the list. He has no cantrips, few fetchlands, no cheap removal, etc. so it's not as though he's casting them early on and you don't want to draw a bunch of lategame legendaries that you can't chain together if needed.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
And he said money is not an issue.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
My Powered 630 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
And those TG's can be destroyed.
So I suggested adding a land to reach 24 and that land potentially adds a more than one mana because of the coffers and the Delta's. (Plus you won't need to activate the Delta's with Urborg in play unless you need an Island.)
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
My Powered 630 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
4 Crypt Rats
4 Nezumi Graverobber
4 Swarm of Rats
2 Necrotic Ooze
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Marrow-Gnawer
4 Training Grounds
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Eldrazi Monument
2 Trade Secrets
4 Underground Sea
4 Watery Grave
4 Polluted Delta
8 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Cabal Coffers
Hence "moderate synergy" as opposed to "immense synergy." A 5/5 is a big dumb idiot that clogs up the ground and dissuades people from messing with you. It will frequently have more value than a random card from your deck and having the option to upgrade a weak draw into a big blocker can be useful in some metas. It's similar to a looter in that it's able to convert unwanted draws into something more relevant. It's not a broken interaction by any means but it's still worth considering.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
4 Baleful Strix
4 Mindshrieker
4 Nezumi Graverobber
4 Azure Mage
3 Undying Evil
2 Soul of New Phyrexia
2 Gilded Lotus
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Time Warp
2 Sepulchral Primordial
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Dark Impostor
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Sol Ring
4 Dimir Aqueduct
4 Sunken Ruins
4 Island
2 Swamp
2 Bojuka Bog
The strongest card in that list, in my opinion, is the Baleful Strix, that card is so strong for it's cost, I would definitely add a playset to your deck, cant go wrong with this one. Mindshrieker is also a very sick card with Training Grounds. I hope it helps.
Kain
Training Rats is sick!
I went ahead and added the Baleful Strix in place of the Swarm of Rats and they worked great Clamping them felt dirty.
By far the greatest interaction in the deck is drawing a second Training Grounds with Nezumi Graverobber. In the late game, I had around 8 mana, plopped down the Robber, flipped him immediately (after some earlier activations) and recurred Marrow-Gnawer, a Pack Rat, and an opponent's Fleshbag Marauder three times to clear everyone else's board.
Also of note is Crypt Rats with Eldrazi Monument and playing Flamebreak for (B) over and over again.
Whip of Erebos also can return a Pack Rat who can make copies that stick around.
This was exactly what I was hoping for in returning to this deck.
Problems with Tasigur, the Golden Fang - never EVER wanted to delve away my graveyard, because I have so much recursion in the form of Graverobber and Whip. Looking for a replacement here!
1) It's a real heavy hitter when you have a Training Grounds in play but can still hit pretty hard even without the Training Grounds.
2) It's harder to block since it has flying
3) It will send cards into your opponents graveyard for you to reanimate with your rat
4) You can always Skullclamp it if you are looking for something else.