any suggestion appreciated, does this look a good build for you ?
Thought Scour can be a good response if your Alchemist is under a bolt as we are in multiplayer and if you are lucky enough to drop a creature all your opponent will have to mill once for each creature put in the graveyard, it is not a combo but not so far ^^
Lightning Greaves makes no sense. People can respond to the Equip with spot removal and since you'll never cast Undead Alchemist unless it's to win the game on the spot it doesn't actually do anything. Something like Defense Grid or Monastery Siege makes significantly more sense, especially if you pair them with free/cheap counterspells.
Dictate of Kruphix seems wildly out of place. Why help your opponents draw into answers?
Ghostly Prison as the only White card even though Blue already has Propaganda? I don't think that 'Ganda is even good but this makes no sense to me.
Polymorphist's Jest in a deck devoid of creatures is just a 3 mana Fog unless someone is kind enough to do the rest of the work for you.
Dissipation Field doesn't actually prevent people from killing you (you'll still die to combat damage) and in my experience it's actively bad since people will purposely attack you to get more value from their ETB triggers and/or protect their creatures from their own mass removal spells.
The deck needs to be streamlined. First of all you need the 4x Alchemist because your deck literally can't win without it. You also want to play some cantrips and broken card draw such as Preordain, Ponder, Mystic Remora (it affects each opponent, read the Oracle text, not the printed text!), Rhystic Study and Trade Secrets. It's also worth noting that cards like Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time love self-mill. That way you can reliably find your combo because you want this to be a turn 5 deck or you'll get crushed by creature-based strategies.
Hey I really hoped you would answer Prid3 ! Thank you very much for the tips.
I think Rune Snag goes well with Mesmeric Orb because you will have to pay the tax to play your spell and it is a double tax because it mills. I have Profane Memento that is great against creatures based decks (without infect). I added Ghostly Prison instead of Propaganda so it could be a Modern Legal deck as well, furthermore it allowed my sideboard to contain Rest in Peace or Suprem Verdict. I think Dictate of Kruphix is not bad because not everyone as a good curve to draw too much cards while my spells are pretty cheap and I can play them every turn which cause to mill with Altar of the Brood. The Lightning Greaves are here because it was cheap and could help milling has it is a permanent but yes probably it is a little bit pointless here.
Thank you for your answers and I will think about your advice and try to strenghten my deck out of it. I totally forgot abour Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time
I think Rune Snag goes well with Mesmeric Orb because you will have to pay the tax to play your spell and it is a double tax because it mills.
Some of the time. "Some of the time" doesn't cut it for combo decks. You lose if you fail to go off so you can't afford to take that risk. Dispel, for example, will always protect your Alchemist from a spot removal spell and for half of the mana.
I think Dictate of Kruphix is not bad because not everyone as a good curve to draw too much cards while my spells are pretty cheap and I can play them every turn which cause to mill with Altar of the Brood.
Why not simply play a card like Thirst for Knowledge that only affects you? Digging 3 for your key combo cards now is significantly better than allowing everyone to draw 5-6 cards over 5-6 turns.
Thank you for your answers and I will think about your advice and try to strenghten my deck out of it. I totally forgot abour Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time
If this is an Altar of the Brood deck, you want as many fetch-style lands in the landbase as you can stomach. This doesn't necessarily have to be full playsets of Flooded Strand - even Terramorphic Expanse / Evolving Wilds will work. They'll thin your deck out and produce a double Altar trigger.
TBH, I would seriously consider switching this to UB instead of WU. The white is only there for Ghostly Prison ATM, correct? The entire aim of the deck is to get creatures into other peoples' graveyards, and black will riff off that something cruel... think Animate Dead, Sepulchral Primordial... if you really want a Prison card, Propaganda is the same thing but blue (and somehow cheaper). I can think of a few UB Zombie cards that would probably appreciate playing with Undead Alchemist too.
Oh, and I know Rune Snag is a cute combo, but it's too cute here. If you want a cute counterspell for this deck, run Memory Lapse (which is conveniently reprinted in EMA with nice new art). People think it's cool until you mill the card away in your turn with Altar of the Brood (and it's even funnier with Mesmeric Orb out). Easily splashable, and produces so many "Oh, only on top of my library? That's cool... HEEEEYYY!!!" moments that it's worth running.
Do you need other mill besides your combo? I mean do you have enough players that the combo most likely mills everybody in one go?
Well the "combo" doesn't finish the game always that's why I supposed Thought Scour was good. The thing is that if I have two Altar of the Brood on the battlefield I need very few creatures to be milled to finish the game. Thank you for the idea of Stinkweed Imp for the defense, really appreciated, I will tell you if I try it out !
Why not simply play a card like Thirst for Knowledge that only affects you? Digging 3 for your key combo cards now is significantly better than allowing everyone to draw 5-6 cards over 5-6 turns.
Mmmmm yes you are probably right, even more than most of the time I can't play them in end of turn 3. I was thinking of Thoughtcast
TBH, I would seriously consider switching this to UB instead of WU. The white is only there for Ghostly Prison ATM, correct? The entire aim of the deck is to get creatures into other peoples' graveyards, and black will riff off that something cruel... think Animate Dead, Sepulchral Primordial... if you really want a Prison card, Propaganda is the same thing but blue (and somehow cheaper). I can think of a few UB Zombie cards that would probably appreciate playing with Undead Alchemist too. Smile
Oh, and I know Rune Snag is a cute combo, but it's too cute here. If you want a cute counterspell for this deck, run Memory Lapse (which is conveniently reprinted in EMA with nice new art). People think it's cool until you mill the card away in your turn with Altar of the Brood (and it's even funnier with Mesmeric Orb out). Easily splashable, and produces so many "Oh, only on top of my library? That's cool... HEEEEYYY!!!" moments that it's worth running. Grin
Yes that's exactly what I thought of, why not turning it into a zombie deck, the problem with this deck actually is that I am focused a lot (I guess it the case for every miller) so I need defense, maybe having a more creature based strategy would help a lot but I don't know much about zombies so I'll have to do some research. By the way I added white because I consider having one slot of Rest in Peace in my main deck in case I am fighting a deck containing Emrakul, Kozilek or Ulamog
Thanks everyone for answering I will do some research and propose something better I hope. There must be a way to build around these two cards
If undead alchemist doesn't seem like enough to mill the table on his own (or gets removed too often) you could run a couple dread summons as a backup plan (assuming you change white to black). They don't necessarily combo kill, but work well with altar of the brood.
I also like the idea of Risen Executioner along with Altar of Dementia as a back-up plan. With all of the self-mill you should be able to cast him from the yard and he pumps all of your tokens to mill for more (or just swing if necessary).
[
By the way I added white because I consider having one slot of Rest in Peace in my main deck in case I am fighting a deck containing Emrakul, Kozilek or Ulamog
Remember, alchemist exiles. If you are able to mill your opponent on their turn (so that they are the active player) you can exile ulamog before his trigger resolves. Fetchlands, mesmeric orb, and/or altar of dementia help with this. They will still be able to shuffle back once, but will have lost their eldrazi in the process. This doesn't work on your turn (AP/NAP) and is kind of clunky, but offers you an out without diluting the combo or running another color. Remember rest in peace is a replacement effect so alchemist could not make any tokens as long as it is in play.
By the way I should quote that in another topic probably but do you know where it is possible to find a book of rules for multiplayer on internet.
With my friends we use to play with 20 life, 7 cards in hand (+the draw for the non starting players) and everyone can attack everyone or many opponents at the same time. Is it the way we usually do ? I like this way to play multiplayer.
And also are there tournament in multiplayer ? Is the community big enough to consider the idea of doing some ?
By the way I should quote that in another topic probably but do you know where it is possible to find a book of rules for multiplayer on internet.
99.99% of the rules between duel and multiplayer Magic are identical. Here's the comprehensive guide and it includes a section for multiplayer. It will cover the minor tweaks that change when you make the move over to MP.
With my friends we use to play with 20 life, 7 cards in hand (+the draw for the non starting players) and everyone can attack everyone or many opponents at the same time. Is it the way we usually do ? I like this way to play multiplayer.
In multiplayer everyone draws a card on their first turn (even the person who goes first) and everyone gets a free mulligan. These rules don't always apply to specific formats such as 2HG but that probably doesn't affect you.
"Chaos magic" (free-for-all, no attack restrictions) is a popular format because it's what EDH employs. In multiplayer it's uncommon for players to start with more than 20 life and/or more than 7 cards in their starting hand unless you're playing a variant format such as EDH in which case you obviously start with 40 life or 2HG in which case you start with 30 life. While some metas employ "attack restrictions" it's not expected by any means and, again, the most popular MP format by many orders of magnitude (EDH) doesn't employ them. In that sense "anything goes" is completely reasonable way to address combat and 20 life/7 cards in hand is the default that most people adhere to.
While this is merely an objective opinion I agree that "anything goes" is the best way to address combat. The beauty of multiplayer, in my mind, is that a bunch of bad players can band together to beat stronger ones. It's "the great equalizer" in that sense since all of the experience and technical skill in the world won't save you when 4 people are beating you into submission. I think that it makes for more interesting group dynamics in that sense since when attack restrictions are in effect it's still too easy for the people "in the know" to take advantage of the weaker, less experienced combatants.
Yes sometimes it is easier to seem weaker. I even think it is not too bad to sometimes do a "bad move" as the "great equalizer" will turn the attention on him or her. Well maybe not. Thank you for your answer !
If undead alchemist doesn't seem like enough to mill the table on his own (or gets removed too often) you could run a couple dread summons as a backup plan (assuming you change white to black). They don't necessarily combo kill, but work well with altar of the brood.
I also like the idea of Risen Executioner along with Altar of Dementia as a back-up plan. With all of the self-mill you should be able to cast him from the yard and he pumps all of your tokens to mill for more (or just swing if necessary).
[
By the way I added white because I consider having one slot of Rest in Peace in my main deck in case I am fighting a deck containing Emrakul, Kozilek or Ulamog
Remember, alchemist exiles. If you are able to mill your opponent on their turn (so that they are the active player) you can exile ulamog before his trigger resolves. Fetchlands, mesmeric orb, and/or altar of dementia help with this. They will still be able to shuffle back once, but will have lost their eldrazi in the process. This doesn't work on your turn (AP/NAP) and is kind of clunky, but offers you an out without diluting the combo or running another color. Remember rest in peace is a replacement effect so alchemist could not make any tokens as long as it is in play.
I really like your vision but I don't think I run enough creatures to play Altar of dementia, and if I played it it would only be 2 of maximum. Dread Summons seems very powerful with the deck indeed, I want to try it !
Here is what I have decided to do for the moment :
If you aren't too concerned with keeping the deck Modern legal, then running straight Counterspell instead of Lapse/Negate seems like an excellent upgrade. It might be worth running a couple of Seat of the Synod in order to get the artifact synergy (discarding to Thirst, getting a land with Academy Ruins if you need to, copying with Sculpting Steel if you're desperate for mana.)
If you can manage the black splash - 1-2 Swamp should work fine given the fetches - then I'd consider Forbidden Alchemy over Thirst for Knowledge. It digs slightly deeper, you're probably looking for an individual card anyway, and you can still get value if it gets milled.
My gut feeling is that Æther Spellbomb might be a better choice for this deck than Vapor Snag. It's a permanent (relevant for Altar), an artifact (therefore recurrable via Ruins and copiable by Sculpting Steel/Metamorph if you really have to), and depending on your playgroup, might influence people to attack elsewhere if you demonstrate that you have a bounce effect (though this part might backfire, as noted above with Dissipation Field.)
To answer you Artscrafter, yes as I already have Counterspell I was thinking of using it but being able to change it for modern. Same for Seat of the Synod so thank you but right now I am mono blue so do you think I really need a black splash ?
By the way AEther Spellbomb is interesting though it costs one more it also mill more so thanks I didn't know this card ^^
Prid3 Thanks a lot for you recommendation. There are a few things I'd like to say. So the creatures seems to be a good choice ! :p. But at first I wanted to splash white for Suprem Verdict, isn't it better than Whelming Wave or Engulf the shore ? and I really like playing Cryptic Command, its ability to tap all creatures your opponents control goes very well with Mesmeric Orb. I am gonna give a try because having more creatures is fun ! And you think then I wouldn't need counterspell ? maybe in Sideboard ?
Seat of the Synod is probably only worth it if you're running Thirst for Knowledge specifically since it will let you act like it's Compulsive Research instead on occasion.
Black splash is only a thing if you want to run Forbidden Alchemy as a dig spell and be able to use the flashback. Note that both Seat and basic Swamps make Engulf the Shore slightly worse, so you probably want to spring for 1-2 Sunken Hollow if you go with a mix of both suggestions.
Verdict is great, but the WW cost will mean that you need to run a more complex manabase. You'll need at least some duals to be able to cast either Verdict or Cryptic on turn 4 with the same lands, and a good number of duals/fetches if you want to do it reliably.
Prid3 Thanks a lot for you recommendation. There are a few things I'd like to say. So the creatures seems to be a good choice ! :p. But at first I wanted to splash white for Suprem Verdict, isn't it better than Whelming Wave or Engulf the shore ?
Not strictly better. Bouncing your own Manic Scribes and Trinket Mages is actively good and it's conceivable that you'll be able to regenerate additional value from your Phyrexian Metamorphs as well. If you still want to splash White and field Verdict that's certainly reasonable but there is some merit to playing bounce in its stead. It's something to keep in mind if nothing else.
and I really like playing Cryptic Command... And you think then I wouldn't need counterspell ?
As I previously explained I don't think for a second that my build is optimal. I just think that it's closer to where you want to be. Vapor Snag blanks one attacker from one opponent once. Fog Bank, on a theoretical level, blocks one attacker from each opponent each combat phase. When paired with Manic Scribe (blanks 2/Xs) and possibly even Metamorph on Scribe/Fog Bank that could legitimately protect you in a multiplayer game. Vapor Snag virtually never will on the other hand and I'd expect those kinds of cards to fail miserably in practice.
If you believe that you'll need Negates/CCs then by all means add them to the deck.
Ok thanks a lot for answering quick and yes bouncing has its advantage if I myself have a battlefield with creatures. Thank you very much, I think the deck is much stronger now. I don't have all the cards yet so I guess I will use proxies before buying them. Anyway thanks a lot for helping me. Actually I play Magic for only 1 year more or less so there are still a lot of things I am discovering ! (like bouncing that helps my mana scribes and tricket mage, very good idea).
Ok thanks a lot for answering quick and yes bouncing has its advantage if I myself have a battlefield with creatures. Thank you very much, I think the deck is much stronger now. I don't have all the cards yet so I guess I will use proxies before buying them. Anyway thanks a lot for helping me. Actually I play Magic for only 1 year more or less so there are still a lot of things I am discovering ! (like bouncing that helps my mana scribes and tricket mage, very good idea).
Just so we're clear it's still easily possible that fielding 4x Verdict 4x Wrath of God could be objectively superior. I have 0 testing under my belt one way or another. I merely wanted to highlight the fact that most Blue decks are actively happy to bounce their own threats. For example, I frequently pair Archaeomancer with Whelming Wave in order to "infinitely" bounce the board. Imagine a board state where you have an Altar of the Brood in play and every (other) turn you jam an Archaeomancer to recur a Whelming Wave (or even Devastation Tide/Crush of Tentacles) in order to lock your opponents out of having creatures while forcing them to mill a ton of cards as you're constantly bouncing + re-casting Manic Scribes with one or more Altar of the Broods in play. Maybe that sucks, I literally have no way of knowing, but these are the kinds of interactions that I think about when I play multiplayer. I don't want to Vapor Snag one creature once or Counterspell one creature once. I want a "permanent" solution to every creature from every opponent.
Awesome I have Archaeomancer and I was already using it has a combo in my "blink" deck with Eerie Interlude. Honestly that's a great idea. I find that what is hard when deck building is that there are so many good combination of cards but you have to find a good balance and the meta is really important as well so it is hard to really have finished your deck.
Even more. Once I will have finished the deck, my friends will change their deck in order to be able to answer my deck, and so I will have to make adjustments too, etc. So in fact, I feel like we are (I play with players that started the same moment as me) trying to optimize our decks for our meta, but if we continue the optimization, we'll end up having really optimized our decks but this'll take time.
So here is a mill deck for multiplayer with a combination of Altar of the Brood and Undead Alchemist :
Creatures
3 Undead Alchemist
Artifact
2 Lightning Greaves
4 Mesmeric Orb
2 Elixir of Immortality
4 Altar of the Brood
3 Profane Memento
Enchant
3 Dictate of Kruphix
3 Ghostly Prison
1 Dissipation Field
Instant
2 Cryptic Command
2 Polymorphist's Jest
4 Rune Snag
4 Thought Scour
2 Visions of Beyond
Lands
1 Academy Ruins
+21 other lands
any suggestion appreciated, does this look a good build for you ?
Thought Scour can be a good response if your Alchemist is under a bolt as we are in multiplayer and if you are lucky enough to drop a creature all your opponent will have to mill once for each creature put in the graveyard, it is not a combo but not so far ^^
Lightning Greaves makes no sense. People can respond to the Equip with spot removal and since you'll never cast Undead Alchemist unless it's to win the game on the spot it doesn't actually do anything. Something like Defense Grid or Monastery Siege makes significantly more sense, especially if you pair them with free/cheap counterspells.
Dictate of Kruphix seems wildly out of place. Why help your opponents draw into answers?
Ghostly Prison as the only White card even though Blue already has Propaganda? I don't think that 'Ganda is even good but this makes no sense to me.
Polymorphist's Jest in a deck devoid of creatures is just a 3 mana Fog unless someone is kind enough to do the rest of the work for you.
Rune Snag doesn't pass muster in combo decks. If your combo fails you lose so you need cards that always work. This is why people use things like Pact of Negation, Swan Song, Dispel, Counterspell, Mana Drain, Foil, Force of Will, Misdirection, etc.
Dissipation Field doesn't actually prevent people from killing you (you'll still die to combat damage) and in my experience it's actively bad since people will purposely attack you to get more value from their ETB triggers and/or protect their creatures from their own mass removal spells.
The deck needs to be streamlined. First of all you need the 4x Alchemist because your deck literally can't win without it. You also want to play some cantrips and broken card draw such as Preordain, Ponder, Mystic Remora (it affects each opponent, read the Oracle text, not the printed text!), Rhystic Study and Trade Secrets. It's also worth noting that cards like Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time love self-mill. That way you can reliably find your combo because you want this to be a turn 5 deck or you'll get crushed by creature-based strategies.
Mesmeric Orb is at its best alongside Basalt Monolith. You can tap + untap it an arbitrarily large number of times to mill your deck which will fuel cards like Shelldock Isle and Ancestral Recall in additional to Delve spells such as Treasure Cruise. It also makes Wake Thrasher a monster and can be paired with Narcomoeba, Dread Return and Laboratory Maniac to easily win games. Lots of combo potential.
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Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I think Rune Snag goes well with Mesmeric Orb because you will have to pay the tax to play your spell and it is a double tax because it mills. I have Profane Memento that is great against creatures based decks (without infect). I added Ghostly Prison instead of Propaganda so it could be a Modern Legal deck as well, furthermore it allowed my sideboard to contain Rest in Peace or Suprem Verdict. I think Dictate of Kruphix is not bad because not everyone as a good curve to draw too much cards while my spells are pretty cheap and I can play them every turn which cause to mill with Altar of the Brood. The Lightning Greaves are here because it was cheap and could help milling has it is a permanent but yes probably it is a little bit pointless here.
Thank you for your answers and I will think about your advice and try to strenghten my deck out of it. I totally forgot abour Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time
Oh and yes Dissipation Field is not that great ..
Some of the time. "Some of the time" doesn't cut it for combo decks. You lose if you fail to go off so you can't afford to take that risk. Dispel, for example, will always protect your Alchemist from a spot removal spell and for half of the mana.
Why not simply play a card like Thirst for Knowledge that only affects you? Digging 3 for your key combo cards now is significantly better than allowing everyone to draw 5-6 cards over 5-6 turns.
Not Legal in Modern :<.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
TBH, I would seriously consider switching this to UB instead of WU. The white is only there for Ghostly Prison ATM, correct? The entire aim of the deck is to get creatures into other peoples' graveyards, and black will riff off that something cruel... think Animate Dead, Sepulchral Primordial... if you really want a Prison card, Propaganda is the same thing but blue (and somehow cheaper). I can think of a few UB Zombie cards that would probably appreciate playing with Undead Alchemist too.
Oh, and I know Rune Snag is a cute combo, but it's too cute here. If you want a cute counterspell for this deck, run Memory Lapse (which is conveniently reprinted in EMA with nice new art). People think it's cool until you mill the card away in your turn with Altar of the Brood (and it's even funnier with Mesmeric Orb out). Easily splashable, and produces so many "Oh, only on top of my library? That's cool... HEEEEYYY!!!" moments that it's worth running.
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Well the "combo" doesn't finish the game always that's why I supposed Thought Scour was good. The thing is that if I have two Altar of the Brood on the battlefield I need very few creatures to be milled to finish the game. Thank you for the idea of Stinkweed Imp for the defense, really appreciated, I will tell you if I try it out !
Mmmmm yes you are probably right, even more than most of the time I can't play them in end of turn 3. I was thinking of Thoughtcast
Yes that's exactly what I thought of, why not turning it into a zombie deck, the problem with this deck actually is that I am focused a lot (I guess it the case for every miller) so I need defense, maybe having a more creature based strategy would help a lot but I don't know much about zombies so I'll have to do some research. By the way I added white because I consider having one slot of Rest in Peace in my main deck in case I am fighting a deck containing Emrakul, Kozilek or Ulamog
Thanks everyone for answering I will do some research and propose something better I hope. There must be a way to build around these two cards
I was also thinking of Phyrexian Metamorph, what do you think ?
I also like the idea of Risen Executioner along with Altar of Dementia as a back-up plan. With all of the self-mill you should be able to cast him from the yard and he pumps all of your tokens to mill for more (or just swing if necessary).
Remember, alchemist exiles. If you are able to mill your opponent on their turn (so that they are the active player) you can exile ulamog before his trigger resolves. Fetchlands, mesmeric orb, and/or altar of dementia help with this. They will still be able to shuffle back once, but will have lost their eldrazi in the process. This doesn't work on your turn (AP/NAP) and is kind of clunky, but offers you an out without diluting the combo or running another color. Remember rest in peace is a replacement effect so alchemist could not make any tokens as long as it is in play.
Also mesmeric orb, Altar of the Brood and Profane Momento can finish the job on their own if there is no infect and no destroy all artifacts, etc. :/
With my friends we use to play with 20 life, 7 cards in hand (+the draw for the non starting players) and everyone can attack everyone or many opponents at the same time. Is it the way we usually do ? I like this way to play multiplayer.
And also are there tournament in multiplayer ? Is the community big enough to consider the idea of doing some ?
99.99% of the rules between duel and multiplayer Magic are identical. Here's the comprehensive guide and it includes a section for multiplayer. It will cover the minor tweaks that change when you make the move over to MP.
In multiplayer everyone draws a card on their first turn (even the person who goes first) and everyone gets a free mulligan. These rules don't always apply to specific formats such as 2HG but that probably doesn't affect you.
"Chaos magic" (free-for-all, no attack restrictions) is a popular format because it's what EDH employs. In multiplayer it's uncommon for players to start with more than 20 life and/or more than 7 cards in their starting hand unless you're playing a variant format such as EDH in which case you obviously start with 40 life or 2HG in which case you start with 30 life. While some metas employ "attack restrictions" it's not expected by any means and, again, the most popular MP format by many orders of magnitude (EDH) doesn't employ them. In that sense "anything goes" is completely reasonable way to address combat and 20 life/7 cards in hand is the default that most people adhere to.
While this is merely an objective opinion I agree that "anything goes" is the best way to address combat. The beauty of multiplayer, in my mind, is that a bunch of bad players can band together to beat stronger ones. It's "the great equalizer" in that sense since all of the experience and technical skill in the world won't save you when 4 people are beating you into submission. I think that it makes for more interesting group dynamics in that sense since when attack restrictions are in effect it's still too easy for the people "in the know" to take advantage of the weaker, less experienced combatants.
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Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I really like your vision but I don't think I run enough creatures to play Altar of dementia, and if I played it it would only be 2 of maximum. Dread Summons seems very powerful with the deck indeed, I want to try it !
Here is what I have decided to do for the moment :
Artifacts
4 Profane Memento
4 Altar of the Brood
4 Mesmeric Orb
4 Sculpting Steel
Creatures
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Undead Alchemist
Instant
2 Vapor Snag
2 Dispel
2 Visions of Beyond
2 Cryptic Command
4 Memory Lapse or Negate
4 Thirst for Knowledge
Lands
1 Academy Ruins
4 Polluted Delta
2 to 4 Evolving Wilds
11 to 13 Island
If you can manage the black splash - 1-2 Swamp should work fine given the fetches - then I'd consider Forbidden Alchemy over Thirst for Knowledge. It digs slightly deeper, you're probably looking for an individual card anyway, and you can still get value if it gets milled.
My gut feeling is that Æther Spellbomb might be a better choice for this deck than Vapor Snag. It's a permanent (relevant for Altar), an artifact (therefore recurrable via Ruins and copiable by Sculpting Steel/Metamorph if you really have to), and depending on your playgroup, might influence people to attack elsewhere if you demonstrate that you have a bounce effect (though this part might backfire, as noted above with Dissipation Field.)
I would play:
17x Island
4x Polluted Delta
1x Academy Ruins
Creatures (18)
4x Manic Scribe
4x Fog Bank
4x Phyrexian Metamorph
2x Trinket Mage
4x Undead Alchemist
4x Profane Memento
4x Altar of the Brood
4x Mesmeric Orb
4x Whelming Wave
4x Engulf the Shore
There's no way that it's optimal but that's what I'd initially test.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
To answer you Artscrafter, yes as I already have Counterspell I was thinking of using it but being able to change it for modern. Same for Seat of the Synod so thank you but right now I am mono blue so do you think I really need a black splash ?
By the way AEther Spellbomb is interesting though it costs one more it also mill more so thanks I didn't know this card ^^
Prid3 Thanks a lot for you recommendation. There are a few things I'd like to say. So the creatures seems to be a good choice ! :p. But at first I wanted to splash white for Suprem Verdict, isn't it better than Whelming Wave or Engulf the shore ? and I really like playing Cryptic Command, its ability to tap all creatures your opponents control goes very well with Mesmeric Orb. I am gonna give a try because having more creatures is fun ! And you think then I wouldn't need counterspell ? maybe in Sideboard ?
Black splash is only a thing if you want to run Forbidden Alchemy as a dig spell and be able to use the flashback. Note that both Seat and basic Swamps make Engulf the Shore slightly worse, so you probably want to spring for 1-2 Sunken Hollow if you go with a mix of both suggestions.
Verdict is great, but the WW cost will mean that you need to run a more complex manabase. You'll need at least some duals to be able to cast either Verdict or Cryptic on turn 4 with the same lands, and a good number of duals/fetches if you want to do it reliably.
Not strictly better. Bouncing your own Manic Scribes and Trinket Mages is actively good and it's conceivable that you'll be able to regenerate additional value from your Phyrexian Metamorphs as well. If you still want to splash White and field Verdict that's certainly reasonable but there is some merit to playing bounce in its stead. It's something to keep in mind if nothing else.
As I previously explained I don't think for a second that my build is optimal. I just think that it's closer to where you want to be. Vapor Snag blanks one attacker from one opponent once. Fog Bank, on a theoretical level, blocks one attacker from each opponent each combat phase. When paired with Manic Scribe (blanks 2/Xs) and possibly even Metamorph on Scribe/Fog Bank that could legitimately protect you in a multiplayer game. Vapor Snag virtually never will on the other hand and I'd expect those kinds of cards to fail miserably in practice.
If you believe that you'll need Negates/CCs then by all means add them to the deck.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Just so we're clear it's still easily possible that fielding 4x Verdict 4x Wrath of God could be objectively superior. I have 0 testing under my belt one way or another. I merely wanted to highlight the fact that most Blue decks are actively happy to bounce their own threats. For example, I frequently pair Archaeomancer with Whelming Wave in order to "infinitely" bounce the board. Imagine a board state where you have an Altar of the Brood in play and every (other) turn you jam an Archaeomancer to recur a Whelming Wave (or even Devastation Tide/Crush of Tentacles) in order to lock your opponents out of having creatures while forcing them to mill a ton of cards as you're constantly bouncing + re-casting Manic Scribes with one or more Altar of the Broods in play. Maybe that sucks, I literally have no way of knowing, but these are the kinds of interactions that I think about when I play multiplayer. I don't want to Vapor Snag one creature once or Counterspell one creature once. I want a "permanent" solution to every creature from every opponent.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Even more. Once I will have finished the deck, my friends will change their deck in order to be able to answer my deck, and so I will have to make adjustments too, etc. So in fact, I feel like we are (I play with players that started the same moment as me) trying to optimize our decks for our meta, but if we continue the optimization, we'll end up having really optimized our decks but this'll take time.