As the title suggests, I'm wanting to make a BGx reanimator deck. I don't want it to be broken to the point that I am jamming 4x Entomb, but I want it to be highly competitive up to that point. Every time I sit down to work on the list, however, something isn't "clicking." The list either feels stale, or it just seems like a strictly worse version of the Entomb deck (which, I grant you, that was my first stipulation... hopefully you know what I mean though?), etc... I already play a BUG Recurring Nightmare deck with Iname, Death Aspect, all the sweet spirit cards, yada yada. It's a sweet deck, but I'm looking for something different for the list I am trying to put together here.
On the subject of Ooze, I have a couple lists that may give you some ideas. I first was brainstorming a list with a GB graveyard type theme, but ultimately went with a BR theme since there aren't as many as in BG (pod, dredge, etc).
OOC why do you want the deck to be Green? What does it bring to Reanimator over Blue and/or Red? Sylvan Primordial? Basically I don't understand how you actually get cards in your GY assuming no Entomb because Buried Alive alone isn't going to cut it and the Black discard outlets suck at doing anything other than pitching a fatty. Whereas Careful Study and Faithless Looting dig into action Putrid Imp is literally worthless at doing anything other than binning Griselbrand.
OOC why do you want the deck to be Green? What does it bring to Reanimator over Blue and/or Red? Sylvan Primordial? Basically I don't understand how you actually get cards in your GY assuming no Entomb because Buried Alive alone isn't going to cut it and the Black discard outlets suck at doing anything other than pitching a fatty. Whereas Careful Study and Faithless Looting dig into action Putrid Imp is literally worthless at doing anything other than binning Griselbrand.
My mistake. I should have just called the post "Multiplayer Reanimator." I'm honestly not positive why I called it BG(x) - but it took a while for me to actually post this, and I think I had been thinking Jarad - which is why BG(x) came out.
No, no... U/B, U/R, Grixis, etc... any color combination. I don't care. I love me some Careful Study (I wish I could love me some Frantic Search tbh...)
EDIT: I renamed the post so as to not cause further ambiguity.
Or do you want something that actually plays Magic? There's a world of difference between a dedicated Ooze deck and a generic Nic Fit deck that wants to play Magic and grind people out using cards like Jarad and Meren.
EDIT: Oh, and no, the Dracos are definitely not optimal, I just get a massive kick out of playing them.
The Nic Fit playstyle is awesome, but I don't really want to build another Recurring Nightmare deck. Yeah... I think my issue with building an Entomb deck is that is doesn't play magic really at all. I want a deck that plays magic, but does so in down right busted ways. Not that infinite combos can't be a part of that, but it should be more of the RiP/Helm combo in a miracles deck as opposed to a Belcher combo deck, if you take my meaning.
I guess, in answer to your question, I am looking for more of a Nic Fit type deck that grinds people out in unfair ways.
The Nic Fit playstyle is awesome, but I don't really want to build another Recurring Nightmare deck.
What does that mean exactly? When I think GBx I think of cards like Green Sun's Zenith, Painful Truths (assuming 3+ color decks obv), Buried Alive, Birthing Pod, Deathreap Ritual, Greater Good (so good with Myriad creatures!) and various other nonsense. Could the decks field Rec NM? Sure. Do they have to? Lord no. There's a metric ton of legitimately competitive alternatives and by no means is Rec NM the only viable option.
IMO you just need to pick 1-2 value engines and a color combo because the rest is easy. BGx has amazing mass removal in the form of Toxic Deluge and Pernicious Deed and the best 1 CMC accelerant in Deathrite Shaman. It also has stellar spot removal since Abrupt Decay/Putrefy/Maelstrom Pulse and such are utterly insane and since value isn't a problem all you need to do is pick the support that you like best.
Lots of power but not much Reanimation going on. Cards like Sensei's Top and Glissa probably need to get axed if you want to make room for recursion. The Birds can probably also go since if anything you want Sakura-Tribe Elder to combo with Meren/Deathreap Ritual but also because it survives your mass removal. As long as you're splashing White for Rhino/Painful Truths I like Sun Titan (recurs Deeds which is sweet) and it also combos well with Animate Dead/Dance of the Dead/Necromancy which presumably you're going to add? Maybe not though. It's also fantastic at recurring Fleshbag Marauder which is another amazing card with Meren/Deathreap Ritual.
Glissa just doesn't do anything (she's not recurring Birthing Pods or whatever) and Sensei's Top is overrated IMO. Too slow and mana intensive for too little effect, plus it consumes way more time that it's worth. Maybe you just want the blocker for Glissa though? Still seems worse than Fleshbag Marauder to me.
maybe it's a little late for another direction, but i faced a very mean reanimator deck in the past using Flayer of the Hatebound and Artisan of Kozilek (just for it's high power). Add Reforge the Soul and other red discard-and-draw spells and you will have enough reanimate targets in your graveyard.
Otherwise, concernig your decklist, i copy the suggestions from Prid3 concerning birds, Divining Top and Glissa. I would suggest to take in a couple of Ravnica duals like Golgari Rot Farm to increase your mana count and for a turn two discard (T1: Land, T2: Ravnica dual-> land to your hand = 8 hand cards = discard).
It just depends on what you want the deck to do. Pod curves Jarad into the Aberration at which point Jarad recurs himself to go for a kill. It's not the most powerful or consistent combo finish of all time but it only uses cards that you're happy to play anyways unlike various Deceiver Exarch into Restoration Angel kills. I've never liked playing combo versions of Pod because all the cards are horrendous on their own and Pod combo kills are easy to predict and counter with basically any form of removal. Your deck is also garbage if you fail to draw Pod or if it's destroyed since none of your regular cards do anything relevant.
I think that Venser, Shaper Savant is overrated in multiplayer. It generates value but only in the form of tempo and that's never where I want to be. Given the choice of cheating out a Disciple of Bolas to help me or a Venser to hinder someone else I'll always opt for the former. Basically if you're never happy to Pod out a Venser and bounce an opposing threat (I'm not but I won't speak for everyone else) then you probably don't want it as one of the few 4 drops in the list.
Deck looks good though, reminds me a lot of an Abzan deck that I play. I'm a fan of consistently ramping into various good stuffs and this deck does that to a T.
can someone please explain to me why Phyrexian Devourer is in these types of decks? I'm having trouble seeing the benefit.
Phyrexian Devourer is part of a combo kill. You get Triskelion and Phyrexian Devourer into the graveyard with Buried Alive or something similar and then play a Necrotic Ooze. Ooze uses Devourer's ability to get a million counters(note the Oracle text replaces the single +X/+X counter with X +1/+1 counters) and then removes them to do a million damage with Triskelion's ability.
can someone please explain to me why Phyrexian Devourer is in these types of decks? I'm having trouble seeing the benefit.
In addition to the Necrotic Ooze combo it's also a 2 card combo with Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. While the text is confusing you can indeed stack the Devourer as much as you want and it won't "automatically" die once its power is 7 or greater. It's a trigger and like all triggers it gets placed on the stack and needs to resolve first. Assuming that you have a Jarad in play you can keep exiling cards until it's a 20/20 (or whatever) and then Fling it to kill everyone.
From the official rules:
9/22/2011 Phyrexian Devourer's first ability continually checks its power as a state trigger. Once it triggers, it won't trigger again as long as the ability is on the stack. If the ability is countered and the trigger condition is still true, it will immediately trigger again. If the ability resolves, you'll have to sacrifice Phyrexian Devourer even if its power has been reduced to 6 or less by then.
Also, w.r.t Necrotic OozeBuried Alive + Animate Dead (or any reanimation spell for matter) is a 2-card combo whereas Survival of the Fittest is a 1-card combo. You can bin the Devourer + Trike then search up + cast the Ooze to win on the spot. Fauna Shaman technically works as well but less reliably. As such this series of cards enables numerous 1, 2 and 3 card combo kills.
As the title suggests, I'm wanting to make a BGx reanimator deck. I don't want it to be broken to the point that I am jamming 4x Entomb, but I want it to be highly competitive up to that point. Every time I sit down to work on the list, however, something isn't "clicking." The list either feels stale, or it just seems like a strictly worse version of the Entomb deck (which, I grant you, that was my first stipulation... hopefully you know what I mean though?), etc... I already play a BUG Recurring Nightmare deck with Iname, Death Aspect, all the sweet spirit cards, yada yada. It's a sweet deck, but I'm looking for something different for the list I am trying to put together here.
Broken combos are fine by me, so stuff like the Necrotic Ooze package (which, of course, includes Buried Alive) would be fine, Bad Mike and friend (plus Living Death)is cool, Undead Alchemist+Altar of the Brood, etc... I have played Legacy Reanimator, so I own all of the awesome reanimate targets as well. Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord also seems sweet, as well as Meren, etc...
I don't know, I have to many "that sounds sweet" ideas in my head, I think, that I'm not happy thus far with any of the actual lists I put together.
I adhere strictly to the Legacy B&R. I'm open to deck list dumping, idea dumping, anything. Give me your thoughts.
I adhere to a Legacy B&R, so Frantic Search is not an option.
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
Core Creatures (23)
4x Elves of Deep Shadow
4x Fauna Shaman
1x Nyx Weaver
3x Splinterfright
2x Bloodline Keeper
4x Necrotic Ooze
2x Thornling
1x Oona, Queen of the Fae
2x Avatar of Woe
1x Civilized Scholar
1x Jorubai Murk Lurker
1x Wall of Blood
1x Magus of the Disk
1x Sturdy Hatchling
1x Jodah's Avenger
1x Gigantomancer
4x Grisly Salvage
4x Buried Alive
2x Gnaw to the Bone
Lands (20)
20x Lands
Obviously needs some work since then.
Core Creatures (18)
3x Spikeshot Elder
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Necrotic Ooze
1x Olivia Voldaren
4x Demigod of Revenge
2x Twisted Abomination
1x Crypt Rats
1x Wall of Blood
1x Jorubai Murk Lurker
1x Magus of the Disk
1x Jodah's Avenger
1x Gigantomancer
4x Faithless Looting
2x Exhume
1x Oversold Cemetery
3x Buried Alive
2x Bonehoard
2x Syphon Mind
22x Lands
So pretty fun to play with. Can win with Ooze via pumped attack or "fling", 4xDemigod of Revenge, Olivia Voldaren pinging and taking stuff, Spikeshot Elder+Bonehoard, making all your early game weenies into big 7/7s with Gigantomancer later on, repetitive board wipe with Ooze+Magus of the Disk+Twisted Abomination+Crypt Rats.
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
My mistake. I should have just called the post "Multiplayer Reanimator." I'm honestly not positive why I called it BG(x) - but it took a while for me to actually post this, and I think I had been thinking Jarad - which is why BG(x) came out.
No, no... U/B, U/R, Grixis, etc... any color combination. I don't care. I love me some Careful Study (I wish I could love me some Frantic Search tbh...)
EDIT: I renamed the post so as to not cause further ambiguity.
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
Ah fair.
So are you looking to play a deck like:
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
4x Underground Sea
3x Island
3x Swamp
Creature (10)
1x Putrid Imp
3x Necrotic Ooze
1x Phyrexian Devourer
1x Triskelion
4x Draco
4x Brainstorm
4x Dark Ritual
4x Ponder
4x Personal Tutor
4x Exhume
4x Animate Dead
4x Lim-Dûl's Vault
4x Buried Alive
Or do you want something that actually plays Magic? There's a world of difference between a dedicated Ooze deck and a generic Nic Fit deck that wants to play Magic and grind people out using cards like Jarad and Meren.
EDIT: Oh, and no, the Dracos are definitely not optimal, I just get a massive kick out of playing them.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I guess, in answer to your question, I am looking for more of a Nic Fit type deck that grinds people out in unfair ways.
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
What does that mean exactly? When I think GBx I think of cards like Green Sun's Zenith, Painful Truths (assuming 3+ color decks obv), Buried Alive, Birthing Pod, Deathreap Ritual, Greater Good (so good with Myriad creatures!) and various other nonsense. Could the decks field Rec NM? Sure. Do they have to? Lord no. There's a metric ton of legitimately competitive alternatives and by no means is Rec NM the only viable option.
IMO you just need to pick 1-2 value engines and a color combo because the rest is easy. BGx has amazing mass removal in the form of Toxic Deluge and Pernicious Deed and the best 1 CMC accelerant in Deathrite Shaman. It also has stellar spot removal since Abrupt Decay/Putrefy/Maelstrom Pulse and such are utterly insane and since value isn't a problem all you need to do is pick the support that you like best.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Birds of Paradise
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
2 Siege Rhino
1 Lord of Extinction
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Painful Truths
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Putrefy
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Deathreap Ritual
This is 55 cards. Thoughts so far?
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
Lots of power but not much Reanimation going on. Cards like Sensei's Top and Glissa probably need to get axed if you want to make room for recursion. The Birds can probably also go since if anything you want Sakura-Tribe Elder to combo with Meren/Deathreap Ritual but also because it survives your mass removal. As long as you're splashing White for Rhino/Painful Truths I like Sun Titan (recurs Deeds which is sweet) and it also combos well with Animate Dead/Dance of the Dead/Necromancy which presumably you're going to add? Maybe not though. It's also fantastic at recurring Fleshbag Marauder which is another amazing card with Meren/Deathreap Ritual.
Glissa just doesn't do anything (she's not recurring Birthing Pods or whatever) and Sensei's Top is overrated IMO. Too slow and mana intensive for too little effect, plus it consumes way more time that it's worth. Maybe you just want the blocker for Glissa though? Still seems worse than Fleshbag Marauder to me.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Do you have enough defense/blockers?
Would you want life gain?
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
maybe it's a little late for another direction, but i faced a very mean reanimator deck in the past using Flayer of the Hatebound and Artisan of Kozilek (just for it's high power). Add Reforge the Soul and other red discard-and-draw spells and you will have enough reanimate targets in your graveyard.
Otherwise, concernig your decklist, i copy the suggestions from Prid3 concerning birds, Divining Top and Glissa. I would suggest to take in a couple of Ravnica duals like Golgari Rot Farm to increase your mana count and for a turn two discard (T1: Land, T2: Ravnica dual-> land to your hand = 8 hand cards = discard).
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
2 Siege Rhino
1 Lord of Extinction
1 Sun Titan
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Animate Dead
2 Dance of the Dead
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Painful Truths
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Putrefy
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Deathreap Ritual
There is also a possible BUG version:
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Bayou
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Island
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Hapless Researcher
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Consuming Aberration
1 Lord of Extinction
1 Griselbrand
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Animate Dead
2 Dance of the Dead
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Painful Truths
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Putrefy
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Deathreap Ritual
Thoughts?
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Consuming Aberration
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Bane of Progress
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Primeval Titan
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Sylvan Primordial
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Blade of Selves
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Painful Truths
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Birthing Pod
2 Deathreap Ritual
Lands (24)
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Island
2 Bayou
3 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
Venser, Shaper Savant and Vendilion Clique also seem pretty sweet with Blade of Selves and Karakas, but I don't really want to throw off my mana curve too much considering I'm using Birthing Pod. Try as I might, I wasn't able to get away from Recurring Nightmare. It's just so sweet in grindy games. Prime Speaker Zegana may actually slide in for Consecrated Sphinx... which sounds like heresy... but the ETB ability is so sweet with Blade of Selves, as is the ability to bounce her with Karakas.
If I put in Venser, Shaper Savant, I would be taking out Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord... and if I did that, I would take out Consuming Aberration as well, likely for Prophet of Kruphix.
Any thoughts?
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
I think that Venser, Shaper Savant is overrated in multiplayer. It generates value but only in the form of tempo and that's never where I want to be. Given the choice of cheating out a Disciple of Bolas to help me or a Venser to hinder someone else I'll always opt for the former. Basically if you're never happy to Pod out a Venser and bounce an opposing threat (I'm not but I won't speak for everyone else) then you probably don't want it as one of the few 4 drops in the list.
Deck looks good though, reminds me a lot of an Abzan deck that I play. I'm a fan of consistently ramping into various good stuffs and this deck does that to a T.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Phyrexian Devourer is part of a combo kill. You get Triskelion and Phyrexian Devourer into the graveyard with Buried Alive or something similar and then play a Necrotic Ooze. Ooze uses Devourer's ability to get a million counters(note the Oracle text replaces the single +X/+X counter with X +1/+1 counters) and then removes them to do a million damage with Triskelion's ability.
Or you put all three in with Buried Alive, and then Animate Dead the Necrotic Ooze.
My Powered 610 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
In addition to the Necrotic Ooze combo it's also a 2 card combo with Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. While the text is confusing you can indeed stack the Devourer as much as you want and it won't "automatically" die once its power is 7 or greater. It's a trigger and like all triggers it gets placed on the stack and needs to resolve first. Assuming that you have a Jarad in play you can keep exiling cards until it's a 20/20 (or whatever) and then Fling it to kill everyone.
From the official rules:
9/22/2011 Phyrexian Devourer's first ability continually checks its power as a state trigger. Once it triggers, it won't trigger again as long as the ability is on the stack. If the ability is countered and the trigger condition is still true, it will immediately trigger again. If the ability resolves, you'll have to sacrifice Phyrexian Devourer even if its power has been reduced to 6 or less by then.
Also, w.r.t Necrotic Ooze Buried Alive + Animate Dead (or any reanimation spell for matter) is a 2-card combo whereas Survival of the Fittest is a 1-card combo. You can bin the Devourer + Trike then search up + cast the Ooze to win on the spot. Fauna Shaman technically works as well but less reliably. As such this series of cards enables numerous 1, 2 and 3 card combo kills.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold