I would like to rework my decks, but I have a hard time figuring out what to do. My decks became boring and my friends know what I will play in most situations, because my decks are somewhat linear and they know them pretty well by now.
That's why I came here. Hopefully you can help me.
Me and my friends play 1v1 and 2v2 most of the time, sometimes FFA. There is no ban list or restriction on deckbuilding, we just want to keep it fair and have some fun. Our powerlevel is not that high, most decks are worth $100-150.
I would like to invest like $50 per deck.
It would be great if you guys could give me some input
The deck does a good job against aggressive creature-based decks, but has a hard time when it comes to control decks. Zurgo Helmsmasher is, most of the times, my only win condition, but he gets taken out easily.
I would like to keep the core idea (control the board, play Zurgo, smash faces), but I need more options and better protection. Hand destruction doesn't work out well and I don't really like it. Also, creatures are not the only threats when playing against my friends, so I need some kind of other removal and not just creature destruction.
The idea is simple: Play Chasm Skulker, let him grow, attack.
The problem is: I can't get him on board consistently/fast enough and/or make him big enough.
I can protect him most of the times, but the idea behind the deck doesn't work out well. It feels like it's an all-in deck and I don't like that. Control decks are not really a problem, but I have a hard time against aggro/creature based decks. Once the skulker is down, the game is over.
This deck feels very slow/inconsistent. I can get all five basic lands in turn 4 on the board, but from then on it feels like I can do barely anything at all.
The idea was to enchant Farhaven Elf/Matca Rioters with Chromanticore and have a threat on board, alternatively support my partner when we're playing 2v2, but my stuff gets removed most of the time (except for Clearwater Goblet, so I/we usually have tons of life).
On the positive side is the explosive potential of this deck. Ordered Migration + Tromp the Domains or an enchanted creature + Gaea's Might can win the game quickly.
Well, those are my decks. Do you guys have any ideas on how to improve them? I'm happy for every kind of feedback.
Cut Radiant Fountain for colored sources (even non-Swamp Basics would work) and axe Mardu Banner for a Boros Signet. You need more colored sources to consistently cast your spells and you'll want cheaper ramp since so many of your lands ETBT. Also cut a land since you have plenty of ramp and so few 5+ drops. 24 lands + 4 ramp spells + 4 draw spells should easily suffice.
Cut Mardu Charm, Duress, Murder and Whip of Erebos. You don't like discard and you need more flexible forms of removal. Whip can work in some decks but not in a list with 4 total creatures. The strongest card that you could possibly add is Grasp of Fate since it's an easy answer-all that you can confidently field 4-of. It's still Oblivion Ring in a 1v1 setting and is fantastic in 2v2s, FFAs, etc. Otherwise consider Act of Authority and/or Serenity.
Beyond that what you need are win conditions moreso than anything else. The ones that come to mind are Goblin Dark-Dwellers and Inferno Titan.
I'm thinking something closer to this. Note that Mystic Remora's Oracle text indicates that it affects each opponent and not just one. I've opted for Mana Leak over Counterspell for color considerations but run whatever you want. Just be aware that Counterspell in a "14x Island" deck isn't a guarantee. Your call.
The third deck:
Wandering Stream, Exotic Curse and Gaea's Might are stone unplayable. You need more card draw to ensure that you'll always have things to play. I can't offer a decklist because I don't play "Domain" decks myself but removing the weaker cards is a good place to start.
Why is Painful Truths better than Read the Bones? RtB gives me Scry 2 and 2 cards, no matter what. PT doesn't give Scry and 1-3 cards. I don't see why I should use it :/
The same applies to Radiant Flames and Anger of the Gods. RF deals 1-3 damage, AotG 3 and creatures don't go into the graveyard. Or am I missing something here?
You're right about Radiant Fountain and the signet. The land didn't help me a lot and mana fixing is always great.
I will cut the cards you mentioned and add Grasp of Fate and/or Act of Authority. Both seem to be much better. Also, I think I will cut Gideon Jura and play without planeswalkers.
Thinking about adding more creatures, makes me want to convert the deck into some kind of warrior-theme. Maybe Blood-Chin Fanatic and Ogre Battledriver + Coat of Arms + Secure the Wastes + Rush of Battle? What do you think?
Second deck:
Mystic Remora looks good. What about Rhystic Studies?
Managorger Hydra and Forgotten Ancient are nice creatures. I was thinking about something like this, maybe Quirion Dryad, but I'd need a way to let her deal combat damage. Also, I need some way to support the Chasm Skulker. What about Protective Bubble or Whispersilk Cloak?
Also, Treasure Cruise is great, but I got 2x Dig Through Time. I think I use those.
Third deck:
I'm not sure about what to do with this deck, but I guess I will cut Farhaven Elf and Rampant Growth for Sakura-Tribe Elder and Cultivate. Also, I will replace the cards you mentioned + Tribal Flames (maybe the Fusion Elementals too) for something more useful, like more Allied Strategies or Worldly Counsel and some threats, like Dragonsoul Knight/Paragon of the Amesha or Etched Oracle/Etched Monstrosity.
Why is Painful Truths better than Read the Bones? RtB gives me Scry 2 and 2 cards, no matter what. PT doesn't give Scry and 1-3 cards. I don't see why I should use it :/
That's the wrong way to analyze the card. The deck that I posted for you has a carefully manufactured manabase that allows it to consistently (90%+ probability) cast all of its spells on curve. If you want to know the math and methodology that I use I actually wrote a Primer on it here. In that sense Painful Truths isn't a "draw 1-3" but rather a "draw 3" by the time that you're realistically looking to cast it (which is rarely going to be on turn 3 for either card by the way). With that in mind the real question that you need to ask is "what's better, Scry 2 + draw 2 or draw 3?" In practice drawing 3 will almost always win out and that's why when you look at the second most degenerate format in all of magic (Legacy) Painful Truths seems a large amount of competitive play whereas Read the Bones sees none. An additional card is significantly more powerful than Scrying 2 as it provides you with tangible resources to work with for the remainder of the match. If you want objective proof of this visit http://mtgtop8.com/search and search for Painful Truths and Read the Bones in Modern/Legacy. The former sees play in 3.4% of Legacy Black decks (that number sounds a lot smaller than it actually is given the thousands of data points) as of writing this reply whereas Read the Bones sees play in 0.00% (as in 0 copies have been played in Legacy in the past 12 months). 3 mana to draw 3 cards is an extremely competitive rate that vastly out-performs Scry 2 + draw 2 and meeting the mana requirements isn't a concern in the deck that I posted. It's literally good enough for the second most powerful format of all time whereas Read the Bones is stone-unplayable (literally 0 play by comparison). Regardless of what you or I think it's hard to argue with statistical data.
The same applies to Radiant Flames and Anger of the Gods. RF deals 1-3 damage, AotG 3 and creatures don't go into the graveyard. Or am I missing something here?
Mana. In order to consistently cast Anger of the Gods on turn 3 you'll need roughly 18 sources of untapped Red mana. Again, you can consult the mana primer that I wrote to verify that number but the TL;DR is that it's based on hypergeometric distribution + conditional probability to account for mulliganing. Your deck isn't (and shouldn't be) an 18 source Red deck which makes curving out with a RR spell on turn 3 problematic. Unlike Painful Truths this is a card that you'll frequently want to jam on turn 3 and since getting 1 of each is significantly easier than hitting double Red I opted to include a more consistent form of mass removal. You can still run AoTG if you wish just be aware that the mana isn't designed to support it.
Now, you're probably thinking "Prid3 you moron, just cut 2x Plains for 2x Temple of Triumph." Sure, you could do that, but then you're adding more ETBT lands to a deck that already has 12. At some point you have have to weigh the pros and cons of casting your spells on curve since by no means is it "free" to bump that number up to 14 (or whatever). I personally try to limit my ETBT lands to 12 or fewer insofar as I can still meet my mana requirements because I value casting my spells on time and not having the majority of my lands ETBT.
If you want to make the deck slower + more consistent to support AoTG, go for it. If you want the less mana-intensive card, go for it.
Thinking about adding more creatures, makes me want to convert the deck into some kind of warrior-theme. Maybe Blood-Chin Fanatic and Ogre Battledriver + Coat of Arms + Secure the Wastes + Rush of Battle? What do you think?
That doesn't seem like a practical solution to me. You don't have the deckslots, none of those cards have any inherent value and you're begging to get blown-out by mass removal by pursuing that route. Think about it, what happens when you don't draw a Secures the Wastes or it gets countered/Wrathed? What will your Fanatics, Battledrivers, Coats, Rushes, etc. accomplish other than to rot in your hand? This is a Control deck, not a token deck, and you need "Control finishers" such as Assemble the Legion and not 5-6 card combos that fold to a bit of creature removal. I strongly discourage you from pursuing this alternative.
Also, I need some way to support the Chasm Skulker. What about Protective Bubble or Whispersilk Cloak?
I'd run Counterspells and/or Dense Foliage if anything. I don't think that durdly Equipment that still loses to spot removal (they can kill your dudes in response to the Equip) is the way to go. I would never put those kinds of cards in my own decks but I mean you can obviously play whatever you want. That being said I see no reason to play the Cloak over Dense Foliage because I don't value the unblockability nearly as much as other people do.
Also, Treasure Cruise is great, but I got 2x Dig Through Time. I think I use those.
DtT is fantastic but it doesn't draw cards which means that it doesn't work nearly as well with your Skulkers and such. Keep that in mind. You can still run it if you want but there is a compelling reason to field actual draw spells when your list has Skulkers.
I just realized that the only spell I can play when Goblin Dark-Dwellers enter the battlefield is Crackling Doom, since Painful Truths and Radiant Flames use the converge mechanic. Does it matter much?
Also, do you think your decklists are a straight upgrade to my decks? Or more like a different approach on the topic?
I just realized that the only spell I can play when Goblin Dark-Dwellers enter the battlefield is Crackling Doom, since Painful Truths and Radiant Flames use the converge mechanic. Does it matter much?
No it doesn't matter at all.
< . <
> . >
In my defense I don't play Mardu >.<!
Back in with the Anger of the Gods and Read the Bones! Also cut 2x Plains for 2x R/W duals. Could be Boros Guildgate or the aforementioned Temple or anything really. Also, to reiterate what I said before I don't think that Zurgo is very good and I would rather see 4x GDD and 2x Zurgo than the inverse. Bluntly put I would never actually put Zurgo in a multiplayer (or duel) deck period but it's up to you.
If you cut Gideon feel free to add a card like Serenity (or whatever).
Also, do you think your decklists are a straight upgrade to my decks? Or more like a different approach on the topic?
Without trying to sound too harsh, yes. I've been playing multiplayer magic for 16 years and follow the game at a competitive level across every major format. I play the best cards, know the math/theory on how to build proper manabases and build decks designed to crush kids and win games. Win or lose I always enjoy a good game but everyone likes winning and so I don't pull many punches when it comes to deckbuilding. Be it 2 or 20 turns I want to give it my all and emerge victorious and my deckbuilding tends to reflect that.
I can't play Give/Take when Dense Foliage is on the battlefield and I don't think my friends play a lot of spot removal, so I guess I'm better off without it.
I can't play Give/Take when Dense Foliage is on the battlefield and I don't think my friends play a lot of spot removal, so I guess I'm better off without it.
You can always swap out the GTs for Rhystic Studys when you side them in if needed.
as spells and when I feel the need to protect my creatures (if my friends start playing (more) removal), I will try Dense Foliage.
Speaking of Wild Growth, does the deck really need that much green mana? Wouldn't Abundant Growth be better? It's slower, but it gives a card and mana of any color.
Speaking of Wild Growth, does the deck really need that much green mana? Wouldn't Abundant Growth be better? It's slower, but it gives a card and mana of any color.
Carpet of Flowers would be ideal if there's a lot of Blue in your meta. That being said you need actual ramp because as it sits you have twelve 3 drops but only four 2 drops (and they're Counters) which makes WG the perfect turn 1 play since it ensures maximum use of your mana on each of your turns. It's not even remotely close with respect to which is more suitable for the deck.
Birds of Paradise are in an "ok" spot, pricewise, I'd say, but $50 for one card is just stupid. $50-100 is the price I'd pay for a whole deck, but not for single cards. Oh well, that's how MTG works
Also, to reiterate what I said before I don't think that Zurgo is very good and I would rather see 4x GDD and 2x Zurgo than the inverse. Bluntly put I would never actually put Zurgo in a multiplayer (or duel) deck period but it's up to you.
What would you change if there were no Zurgo in the deck?
I would like to rework my decks, but I have a hard time figuring out what to do. My decks became boring and my friends know what I will play in most situations, because my decks are somewhat linear and they know them pretty well by now.
That's why I came here. Hopefully you can help me.
Me and my friends play 1v1 and 2v2 most of the time, sometimes FFA. There is no ban list or restriction on deckbuilding, we just want to keep it fair and have some fun. Our powerlevel is not that high, most decks are worth $100-150.
I would like to invest like $50 per deck.
It would be great if you guys could give me some input
That being said, this is my first deck:
4 Zurgo Helmsmasher
Planeswalkers (2):
2 Gideon Jura
Enchantment Artifacts (1):
1 Whip of Erebos
Artifacts (4):
4 Mardu Banner
Instants (12):
4 Crackling Doom
4 Mardu Charm
4 Murder
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Duress
4 Read the Bones
2 Wrath of God
Lands (25):
4 Nomad Outpost
4 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Malice
4 Radiant Fountain
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Swamp
I stole the deck idea from this page.
The deck does a good job against aggressive creature-based decks, but has a hard time when it comes to control decks. Zurgo Helmsmasher is, most of the times, my only win condition, but he gets taken out easily.
I would like to keep the core idea (control the board, play Zurgo, smash faces), but I need more options and better protection. Hand destruction doesn't work out well and I don't really like it. Also, creatures are not the only threats when playing against my friends, so I need some kind of other removal and not just creature destruction.
The second deck:
4 Chasm Skulker
4 Horizon Chimera
2 Vorel of the Hull Clade
2 Zameck Guildmage
Enchantments (2):
2 Hatching Plans
Enchantment - Auras (4):
4 Rancor
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
2 Perilous Research
4 Simic Charm
Sorceries (6):
4 Give/Take
2 Ponder
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Temple of Mystery
3 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Novijen, Heart of Progress
5 Island
4 Forest
The idea is simple: Play Chasm Skulker, let him grow, attack.
The problem is: I can't get him on board consistently/fast enough and/or make him big enough.
I can protect him most of the times, but the idea behind the deck doesn't work out well. It feels like it's an all-in deck and I don't like that. Control decks are not really a problem, but I have a hard time against aggro/creature based decks. Once the skulker is down, the game is over.
The third deck was meant to be a support deck:
4 Farhaven Elf
2 Fusion Elemental
4 Matca Rioters
Enchantment Creatures (4):
4 Chromanticore
Enchantments - Auras (2):
2 Exotic Curse
Artifacts (2):
2 Clearwater Goblet
3 Gaea's Might
Sorceries (15):
2 Allied Strategies
2 Ordered Migration
4 Rampant Growth
3 Tribal Flames
2 Tromp the Domains
2 Wandering Stream
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Terramorphic Expanse
8 Forest
2 Island
2 Mountain
2 Plains
2 Swamp
This deck feels very slow/inconsistent. I can get all five basic lands in turn 4 on the board, but from then on it feels like I can do barely anything at all.
The idea was to enchant Farhaven Elf/Matca Rioters with Chromanticore and have a threat on board, alternatively support my partner when we're playing 2v2, but my stuff gets removed most of the time (except for Clearwater Goblet, so I/we usually have tons of life).
On the positive side is the explosive potential of this deck. Ordered Migration + Tromp the Domains or an enchanted creature + Gaea's Might can win the game quickly.
Well, those are my decks. Do you guys have any ideas on how to improve them? I'm happy for every kind of feedback.
Thank you for reading
Why not Painful Truths over Read the Bones?
Cut Radiant Fountain for colored sources (even non-Swamp Basics would work) and axe Mardu Banner for a Boros Signet. You need more colored sources to consistently cast your spells and you'll want cheaper ramp since so many of your lands ETBT. Also cut a land since you have plenty of ramp and so few 5+ drops. 24 lands + 4 ramp spells + 4 draw spells should easily suffice.
Cut Mardu Charm, Duress, Murder and Whip of Erebos. You don't like discard and you need more flexible forms of removal. Whip can work in some decks but not in a list with 4 total creatures. The strongest card that you could possibly add is Grasp of Fate since it's an easy answer-all that you can confidently field 4-of. It's still Oblivion Ring in a 1v1 setting and is fantastic in 2v2s, FFAs, etc. Otherwise consider Act of Authority and/or Serenity.
Beyond that what you need are win conditions moreso than anything else. The ones that come to mind are Goblin Dark-Dwellers and Inferno Titan.
So maybe something like:
6x Plains
4x Mountain
4x Nomad Outpost
4x Temple of Silence
4x Temple of Malice
2x Swamp
4x Tithe Drinker
4x Zurgo Helmsmasher
2x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
4x Inferno Titan
Spells (22)
4x Boros Signet
4x Crackling Doom
4x Painful Truths
4x Grasp of Fate
2x Radiant Flames
2x Wrath of God
2x Gideon Jura
That being said I think that Zurgo is a piss-poor finisher and I'd personally never field 4.
The second deck:
8x Forest
4x Island
4x Yavimaya Coast
4x Temple of Mystery
2x Cephalid Coliseum
4x Managorger Hydra
4x Chasm Skulker
4x Forgotten Ancient
4x Horizon Chimera
Spells (22)
4x Wild Growth
4x Mystic Remora
4x Brainstorm
4x Mana Leak
4x Give // Take
2x Treasure Cruise
I'm thinking something closer to this. Note that Mystic Remora's Oracle text indicates that it affects each opponent and not just one. I've opted for Mana Leak over Counterspell for color considerations but run whatever you want. Just be aware that Counterspell in a "14x Island" deck isn't a guarantee. Your call.
The third deck:
Wandering Stream, Exotic Curse and Gaea's Might are stone unplayable. You need more card draw to ensure that you'll always have things to play. I can't offer a decklist because I don't play "Domain" decks myself but removing the weaker cards is a good place to start.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
First deck:
Why is Painful Truths better than Read the Bones? RtB gives me Scry 2 and 2 cards, no matter what. PT doesn't give Scry and 1-3 cards. I don't see why I should use it :/
The same applies to Radiant Flames and Anger of the Gods. RF deals 1-3 damage, AotG 3 and creatures don't go into the graveyard. Or am I missing something here?
You're right about Radiant Fountain and the signet. The land didn't help me a lot and mana fixing is always great.
I will cut the cards you mentioned and add Grasp of Fate and/or Act of Authority. Both seem to be much better. Also, I think I will cut Gideon Jura and play without planeswalkers.
Thinking about adding more creatures, makes me want to convert the deck into some kind of warrior-theme. Maybe Blood-Chin Fanatic and Ogre Battledriver + Coat of Arms + Secure the Wastes + Rush of Battle? What do you think?
Second deck:
Mystic Remora looks good. What about Rhystic Studies?
Managorger Hydra and Forgotten Ancient are nice creatures. I was thinking about something like this, maybe Quirion Dryad, but I'd need a way to let her deal combat damage. Also, I need some way to support the Chasm Skulker. What about Protective Bubble or Whispersilk Cloak?
Also, Treasure Cruise is great, but I got 2x Dig Through Time. I think I use those.
Third deck:
I'm not sure about what to do with this deck, but I guess I will cut Farhaven Elf and Rampant Growth for Sakura-Tribe Elder and Cultivate. Also, I will replace the cards you mentioned + Tribal Flames (maybe the Fusion Elementals too) for something more useful, like more Allied Strategies or Worldly Counsel and some threats, like Dragonsoul Knight/Paragon of the Amesha or Etched Oracle/Etched Monstrosity.
That's the wrong way to analyze the card. The deck that I posted for you has a carefully manufactured manabase that allows it to consistently (90%+ probability) cast all of its spells on curve. If you want to know the math and methodology that I use I actually wrote a Primer on it here. In that sense Painful Truths isn't a "draw 1-3" but rather a "draw 3" by the time that you're realistically looking to cast it (which is rarely going to be on turn 3 for either card by the way). With that in mind the real question that you need to ask is "what's better, Scry 2 + draw 2 or draw 3?" In practice drawing 3 will almost always win out and that's why when you look at the second most degenerate format in all of magic (Legacy) Painful Truths seems a large amount of competitive play whereas Read the Bones sees none. An additional card is significantly more powerful than Scrying 2 as it provides you with tangible resources to work with for the remainder of the match. If you want objective proof of this visit http://mtgtop8.com/search and search for Painful Truths and Read the Bones in Modern/Legacy. The former sees play in 3.4% of Legacy Black decks (that number sounds a lot smaller than it actually is given the thousands of data points) as of writing this reply whereas Read the Bones sees play in 0.00% (as in 0 copies have been played in Legacy in the past 12 months). 3 mana to draw 3 cards is an extremely competitive rate that vastly out-performs Scry 2 + draw 2 and meeting the mana requirements isn't a concern in the deck that I posted. It's literally good enough for the second most powerful format of all time whereas Read the Bones is stone-unplayable (literally 0 play by comparison). Regardless of what you or I think it's hard to argue with statistical data.
Mana. In order to consistently cast Anger of the Gods on turn 3 you'll need roughly 18 sources of untapped Red mana. Again, you can consult the mana primer that I wrote to verify that number but the TL;DR is that it's based on hypergeometric distribution + conditional probability to account for mulliganing. Your deck isn't (and shouldn't be) an 18 source Red deck which makes curving out with a RR spell on turn 3 problematic. Unlike Painful Truths this is a card that you'll frequently want to jam on turn 3 and since getting 1 of each is significantly easier than hitting double Red I opted to include a more consistent form of mass removal. You can still run AoTG if you wish just be aware that the mana isn't designed to support it.
Now, you're probably thinking "Prid3 you moron, just cut 2x Plains for 2x Temple of Triumph." Sure, you could do that, but then you're adding more ETBT lands to a deck that already has 12. At some point you have have to weigh the pros and cons of casting your spells on curve since by no means is it "free" to bump that number up to 14 (or whatever). I personally try to limit my ETBT lands to 12 or fewer insofar as I can still meet my mana requirements because I value casting my spells on time and not having the majority of my lands ETBT.
If you want to make the deck slower + more consistent to support AoTG, go for it. If you want the less mana-intensive card, go for it.
That doesn't seem like a practical solution to me. You don't have the deckslots, none of those cards have any inherent value and you're begging to get blown-out by mass removal by pursuing that route. Think about it, what happens when you don't draw a Secures the Wastes or it gets countered/Wrathed? What will your Fanatics, Battledrivers, Coats, Rushes, etc. accomplish other than to rot in your hand? This is a Control deck, not a token deck, and you need "Control finishers" such as Assemble the Legion and not 5-6 card combos that fold to a bit of creature removal. I strongly discourage you from pursuing this alternative.
The card is stellar. I only excluded it for budget reasons, not for power-level concerns.
Why? Just keep turning your giant fatties sideways.
I'd run Counterspells and/or Dense Foliage if anything. I don't think that durdly Equipment that still loses to spot removal (they can kill your dudes in response to the Equip) is the way to go. I would never put those kinds of cards in my own decks but I mean you can obviously play whatever you want. That being said I see no reason to play the Cloak over Dense Foliage because I don't value the unblockability nearly as much as other people do.
DtT is fantastic but it doesn't draw cards which means that it doesn't work nearly as well with your Skulkers and such. Keep that in mind. You can still run it if you want but there is a compelling reason to field actual draw spells when your list has Skulkers.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I just realized that the only spell I can play when Goblin Dark-Dwellers enter the battlefield is Crackling Doom, since Painful Truths and Radiant Flames use the converge mechanic. Does it matter much?
Also, do you think your decklists are a straight upgrade to my decks? Or more like a different approach on the topic?
No it doesn't matter at all.
< . <
> . >
In my defense I don't play Mardu >.<!
Back in with the Anger of the Gods and Read the Bones! Also cut 2x Plains for 2x R/W duals. Could be Boros Guildgate or the aforementioned Temple or anything really. Also, to reiterate what I said before I don't think that Zurgo is very good and I would rather see 4x GDD and 2x Zurgo than the inverse. Bluntly put I would never actually put Zurgo in a multiplayer (or duel) deck period but it's up to you.
If you cut Gideon feel free to add a card like Serenity (or whatever).
Without trying to sound too harsh, yes. I've been playing multiplayer magic for 16 years and follow the game at a competitive level across every major format. I play the best cards, know the math/theory on how to build proper manabases and build decks designed to crush kids and win games. Win or lose I always enjoy a good game but everyone likes winning and so I don't pull many punches when it comes to deckbuilding. Be it 2 or 20 turns I want to give it my all and emerge victorious and my deckbuilding tends to reflect that.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Alright, I will order some cards and report back how the games went. Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it!
Are you going to grab some Dense Foliages for your UG deck in case you want that protection?
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
You can always swap out the GTs for Rhystic Studys when you side them in if needed.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
4x Rhystic Study
4x Brainstorm
4x Mana Leak
4x Give // Take
2x Treasure Cruise
as spells and when I feel the need to protect my creatures (if my friends start playing (more) removal), I will try Dense Foliage.
Speaking of Wild Growth, does the deck really need that much green mana? Wouldn't Abundant Growth be better? It's slower, but it gives a card and mana of any color.
Carpet of Flowers would be ideal if there's a lot of Blue in your meta. That being said you need actual ramp because as it sits you have twelve 3 drops but only four 2 drops (and they're Counters) which makes WG the perfect turn 1 play since it ensures maximum use of your mana on each of your turns. It's not even remotely close with respect to which is more suitable for the deck.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
This where cards like Breeding Pool and Misty Rainforest shine as they enable you to play Utopia Sprawl.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Wouldn't Utopia Sprawl be better than Wild Growth in my deck?
You need 14 Forests in order to consistently cast it on turn 1. Hence whey having Fetchlands/Duals opens up better options for early-game ramp.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Yeah it's unfortunate that all of the "good" 1 CMC ramp is either conditional or expensive or both >.<!
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Edit:
What would you change if there were no Zurgo in the deck?
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
4 Inferno Titan
4 Tithe Drinker
4 Zurgo Helmsmasher
Spells (22):
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Boros Signet
4 Crackling Doom
4 Grasp of Fate
4 Read the Bones
2 Wear // Tear
2 Wrath of God
4 Nomad Outpost
4 Temple of Malice
4 Temple of Silence
2 Battlefield Forge
4 Mountain
4 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Chasm Skulker
4 Forgotten Ancient
4 Horizon Chimera
4 Managorger Hydra
Spells (22):
4 Brainstorm
4 Give // Take
4 Mana Leak
4 Rhystic Study
2 Treasure Cruise
4 Wild Growth
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Yavimaya Coast
2 Cephalid Coliseum
8 Forest
4 Island
4 Chromanticore
1 Dragonsoul Knight
4 Etched Oracle
2 Etched Monstrosity
4 Matca Rioters
1 Paragon of the Amesha
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Allied Strategies
2 Clearwater Goblet
4 Cultivate
2 Ordered Migration
2 Tromp the Domains
2 Worldly Counsel
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Terramorphic Expanse
8 Forest
2 Island
2 Mountain
2 Plains
2 Swamp
Probably the full 4 Dark Dwellers and then any generic 4 drop I suppose. Flametongue Kavu, Outpost Siege, Pia and Kiran Nalaar, anything really.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Me and my friends play kitchentable magic, so the decks don't need to be perfect. We'll see.
Thank you for the help! Great feedback