MTG Salvation

Hey all. I'm having a dilemma right now. I'm going through my cards in order to buy list all the ones I'm not currently using after I make 2-3 new decks. I have so many 'works well together piles, I can't seem to narrow things down to a solid deck list. I posted one other thread like this with different cards.

The final list based on the discussion below:

I'm thinking this is the perfect shell for ZC, right? I'm avoiding Gravepact due to cost, but I do own a Sheoldred, so that can go in for the top end. Is this the right shell for Fleshbag/Executioner? I have trouble picking that one. Elvish Visionary instead of the Emissary?

I can also add a third color, but this is usually where I have trouble making a decision. I already have: Abzan Pod and Constellation decks and a Sultai graveyard deck. For those of you that follow my threads, I ran a AoGR deck for a few years that was also Abzan colors. I like to have decks that do different things and use different cards as much as possible. I don't like owning more than 4 as a general rule and don't want to move between sleeves or print proxy cards.

Thanks in advance for any help!

I would 100% play the Fleshbag Marauder. ZC is fine if you want to go that route. That being said you might want to consider building a Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord deck for a change. He's great in big mana decks and loves all of this self-sacrifice. Otherwise he's a nutter win condition and converts any big, dumb idiot into a game win.

If you add Red you can add Prossh, Skyraider of Kher which is obviously insane with Clamp, ZC, Marauders, and all of the other typical Jund garbage. I know that putting it directly into play with Meren sucks but I can live with that. Your deck is all about drawing and casting a million dudes so cards like Purphoros, God of the Forge are already good and cards like Prossh make them oppressive. Were this me I'd probably build a Prossh deck but that's mostly because Prossh in my favorite Jund card by a lot. It's basically the best 6 drop in the game sitting just behind Conq Sphinx and Primetime.

I like adding R so that I can use the new dual lands (I bought a bunch and sold the shock lands). I also have a Purphoros, so that would fit nicely. What would a deck list look like that you would want to play that has the cards I listed above and includes the ones you suggested?

Quote from Xyx »

Hard to go wrong with Ye Olde Bloodbraid Elf and Sprouting Thrinax. Maybe not degenerate enough for 8-player games but good value in 4-player games.

I like Thrinax well enough but I personally dislike BBE in ramp decks. Paying 4 mana for a 3/2 and a Rampant Growth is worse than Solemn Simulacrum in my books and I think that Solemn is unplayable trash to begin with. In that sense I think that BBE is extremely overrated in most MP Green decks. Personal opinion obviously but it hasn't been a winning card for anyone in our circles.

Quote from calderstrake »

I like adding R so that I can use the new dual lands (I bought a bunch and sold the shock lands). I also have a Purphoros, so that would fit nicely. What would a deck list look like that you would want to play that has the cards I listed above and includes the ones you suggested?

Assuming a Skullclamp deck maybe something like this. There's a million good cards that you could run though.

Similar deck I posted in another thread recently. Skullclamp all your little dudes and eldrazi tokens to dig through your deck. Main win is with Purphoros + Prossh. ZC & Shared Animosity are there for when you get stuck without your combo.

Quote from Xyx »

Hard to go wrong with Ye Olde [card]If you have cards that you want to give a home, though, unless they're three-color cards it's better to reduce the number of colors. Otherwise you'll always gravitate to the same subsets of cards. Better to build BR, RG, and GB decks than a single RGB deck.

What you say makes sense, but at the same time I can't afford to maintain more than about 10 decks total (I keep 3x Commander ready for play as well). It works better for me to find a single home for each unique card. This also allows me to have maximum exposure to different cards given my personal constraints (three kids, one income).

Quote from Prid3 »

*deck list*

Assuming a Skullclamp deck maybe something like this. There's a million good cards that you could run though.

This is FANTASTIC! I'm excited to play a list like this. This is the kind of threat I've been facing (not the specific cards) with the constant onslaught of pressure and supporting Enchantment cards. The only major expense for me in this list is the second Purphoros, which I'm sure I could get by with one if necessary.

Quote from WetBanditMarv »

*deck list*

Similar deck I posted in another thread recently. Skullclamp all your little dudes and eldrazi tokens to dig through your deck. Main win is with Purphoros + Prossh. ZC & Shared Animosity are there for when you get stuck without your combo.

I like a few of your card choices. Thank you very much for offering a different perspective. Ophiomancer is very strong with Goblin Bombardment.

I'm going to order the missing pieces for this deck next week.

What is the opinion on Mogis, God of Slaughter and Tymaret, the Murder King? Are they better than one of the other threats or worth losing some lower CMC cards to slot it in?

Quote from calderstrake »

I'm going to order the missing pieces for this deck next week.

What is the opinion on Mogis, God of Slaughter and Tymaret, the Murder King? Are they better than one of the other threats or worth losing some lower CMC cards to slot it in?

Mogis I personally think is hot garbage. I've never seen him come online as a creature period and otherwise he's a slower, weaker version of Sulfuric Vortex that pisses everyone off without improving your board. I'm biased because I see him in EDH more than any other format and he's so UNBELIEVABLY bad in that format but even when I have seen him in Constructed, again, the card doesn't do anything except piss people off. Red/Black/Green have way too many good 4 drops to waste a single deckslot on trash like this IMO.

Tymaret I've played sporadically as a 1-of in decks with cards like Grenzo, Dungeo Warden, Alesha, Who Smiles At Death and obviously some recursive threats such as Reassembling Skeleton. He's the type of card that you can sink 10-12 mana into and realize that nothing meaningful has manifested from your investments. You feel good because you used all of your mana every turn but you never accomplish anything dignificant throughout the process. I don't hate the card and I still play him as a 1-of in BR decks we're not talking about anything exciting here. Personally I would stick to Green cards since Green cards aren't fair or even good old Fellwar Stone.

Probably an impractical suggestion but Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is ridonkulous. I know that he's a billion dollars and it kills me that he's not more affordable but the card is actually just insane. When I first saw him I was kinda mentally comparing him to Ogre Slumlord and figured "good but not better than Crypt Ghast and Graveborn Muse" but he's actually just the best Black 4 drop in the game and it's not close.

Finally after weeks of waiting, I finally got to play this today. As anticipated, IT TOTALLY SMASHED FACES!

The first game I won with Purp + Offering where X=7.

Game two I was preparing to win and Purp got sent back to the library courtesy of Unexpectedly Absent.

Very happy with this and it may move to my #2 favorite deck to play. Thanks for all the input!

Quote from calderstrake »

As anticipated, IT TOTALLY SMASHED FACES!

Prossh is completely bonkers, only costs a buck and combos with actual millions of competitive staples. It makes no sense to me why more people don't build decks that include him. Hell, I routinely splash for him and him alone!

Quote from Prid3 »

Prossh is completely bonkers, only costs a buck and combos with actual millions of competitive staples. It makes no sense to me why more people don't build decks that include him. Hell, I routinely splash for him and him alone!

What kinds of broken things have you done with him that are Legacy legal? I would be interested in seeing a bunch of ideas on him that don't include things like Skullclamp.

Quote from iemsparticus »

Quote from Prid3 »

Prossh is completely bonkers, only costs a buck and combos with actual millions of competitive staples. It makes no sense to me why more people don't build decks that include him. Hell, I routinely splash for him and him alone!

What kinds of broken things have you done with him that are Legacy legal? I would be interested in seeing a bunch of ideas on him that don't include things like Skullclamp.

The basic combo of the deck tends to be Zulaport Cutthroat + Purphoros, God of the Forge + Prossh, Skyraider of Kher which is a kill. Prossh puts 7 bodies into play which deals 14 and you can immediately sac the 6 tokens (and presumably the 1 Cutthroat) for another 6-7. Still, the deck isn't reliant on combo kills to win the game and while it's a 3 card combo all of the cards are very powerful on their own. The deck can still easily win w/o it but it's nice to know that your 2-4-6 curve wins the game on the spot.

The next "combo" is that Prossh triggers Beastmaster Ascension on his own and with Ogre Battledriver that's 60 Hasted damage which isn't an auto-kill but it's close in a 3 player game. Ogre Battledriver is just plain good in token decks and since I always run cards like Sylvan Offering and Tempt with Vengeance I never feel bad about having them in my list. When your combo works, cool, but it's fine if it doesn't.

Otherwise Prossh has amazing draw engines in cards like Skullmulcher and Shamanic Revelation. 7 bodies in a lot of cards and between things like Sylvan Offering your fall-backs aren't too shabby either. It also got an insane buff with Cryptolith Rite which now makes the deck very rampy and allows it to Tooth and Nail things like Avenger of Zendikar and Ogre Battledriver/Craterhoof Behemoth into play. Cryptolith Rite is insane with Tempt with Vengeance and Sylvan Offering as well and turns early creatures such as Wall of Roots and Zulaport Cutthroat into major ramp engines.

Otherwise the deck has Purphoros, God of the Forge which means that past turn 5 any 2 token spells wins. They each put at least 5 dudes into play so you get a lot of free wins that way.

Now, a lot of what I've explained here clearly isn't broken in the same way that turn 1 Gemstone Caverns Waste Not turn 2 Dark Deal is. This isn't a deck that combo kills on turn 2-3. What it does do is convert relatively inexpensive "bombs" into a powerful, synergistic archetype. Granted, Tempt with Vengeance isn't the 50 cent card that it was back when I purchased them and Purphoros, God of the Forge isn't free but neither are required to make Prossh work and the idea is moreso to combine multi-bodies threats with powerful draw engines/sac outlets/etc. and abuse the synergies at work. Unlike true combo decks none of your cards are bad on their own and so you win a ton of games by playing normal Magic. That being said sometimes you go turn turn 1 Elvish Mystic turn 2 Wall of Roots + 2 drop turn 3 Zulaport Cutthroat + 2-3 drop turn 4 Purphoros turn 5 Prossh and you win. It doesn't have to happen but when it does hey, I'll take it!

Prossh is, dollar-for-dollar, right up there with 6 drops like Recurring Insight with respect to being a game-ending bomb that won't break the bank. I like playing budget-friendly-yet-powerful cards that fit well in many archetypes and he fits the bill perfectly. All of the card discussed in this reply are extremely powerful multiplayer threats in general so even if you rip the deck apart everything finds a new home. That's what I look for when I invest in decks/staples which makes Prossh a truly perfect card for someone like me.

Gotcha. I mean, a lot of things aren't as busted as T1 Gemstone Caverns/Waste Not T2 Dark Deal. But yeah, that archetype(s?) look powerful indeed. And, even as someone who owns 2 playsets of Force of Will, some ABUR duals, multiples playsets of each fetchland, a playset of Future Sight Tarmogoyf, on and on, budget is still a thing! And I very much appreciate the ability to take apart a deck, and still have 60 playable cards, because, let's face it, I tend to get bored playing the same decks over and over, and like to change things up. I'm certainly going to look at making a Prossh/ZC/Purphoros deck - looks like a blast!

(and if it doesn't win as much as I want it to, I'll play Grixis Waste Not until I feel like the bee's knees again!)

Gonna try and run this. Is the manabase okay?
Did get the B/G C15 precon (with Meren), but trying to not use too many of the good pieces from it in this one since I do keep a 60 deck of it as well.

Quote from Wardbuyer »

Gonna try and run this. Is the manabase okay?

Cut 2x Bloodfell Caves for 2x Mountain and 2x Jungle Hollow for 2x Swamp. The numbers still work out and you get to play fewer ETBT lands. You don't have to make this swap if you don't want to but the math on casting all of your spells on curve still checks out and I would rather field as few ETBT lands as possible personally. Your call.

FYI you need roughly 18 sources of each color to reliably cast your spells on curve and I personally count the 2x STEve as 1 (total) source of Black/Red and I discount the Harts entirely since they're way too slow. Using my suggested changes you have at least 19 sources of every color (more Green obv) so the math does check out and your deck becomes slightly "faster."

OOC why Burnished Hart in Green? 6 mana to Explosive Vegetation is very freaking weak. Yes, I get that you sac it which triggers various nonsense but the base card isn't playable in my opinion and a touch of synergy doesn't change that. If you were playing monowhite Sun Titan, sure, but you have access to Green ramp.

I did order a singleton Yavimaya Elder for the other deck, but switching it back and forth should be okay. Just figured it'd be a bit difficult to cast in comparison to the Burnished Hart.
Also forgot that there's a Vivid Marsh and a Vivid Grove from the precon which would fit instead of some of the duals.

Quote from Wardbuyer »

I did order a singleton Yavimaya Elder for the other deck, but switching it back and forth should be okay. Just figured it'd be a bit difficult to cast in comparison to the Burnished Hart.
Also forgot that there's a Vivid Marsh and a Vivid Grove from the precon which would fit instead of some of the duals.

This deck can reliably cast Yavimaya Elder.

Vivid lands don't change anything. They're still ETB lands. The proposed changes that I made cut 4 ETB lands and still allow you to cast your spells on curve including Yavimaya Elder if you want. You did a great job of fielding enough colored sources to the point where you can even afford to cut some.

Just wanted to chime-in again to say this deck continues to perform very well. I took out one Skullwinder to put in a single Deathreap Ritual. Today I eliminated 3 other players and only missed eliminating the 4th and final one due to a misplay on my part.

If you haven't tried a deck with Prossh, you are missing out on some real fun!

Quote from calderstrake »

If you haven't tried a deck with Prossh, you are missing out on some real fun!

Assuming that the current build isn't too slow you should try playing Avenger of Zendikar as a 7 drop. You don't have to run 4 or anything but the card is also nuts in this archetype. I like it way better than the Butcher that you're currently running for example.