After lots of playtesting I have created pretty much final version of this deck.
Thank you for all of your recommendations and helping me to create it.
Deck works really well and is a blast to play. Win ratio is good and even in larger matches I'm last players to stay in game.
Here is card-by-card analysis how cards work and how they interact with other cards :
E) Removal Far / Away Scaling removal that can take care of hexproof / indestructible creatures Simic Charm Bounce for slowing down heroic decks and similar. Sultai Charm Conditional creature removal and artifact / enchantment removal
F) Cards tested and results Fleshbag Marauder instant speed removal every turn turned out to be too good. Most opponents complained and ganged me out in next match. Sepulchral Primordial & Sylvan Primordial Great finishers with strong etb effects. Won game by themselves, but i wanted to win by reanimating opponents graveyard so I removed them for now and replaced with protection for combo. Mulldrifter & Shriekmaw good cards. My playgroup just plays too much black for Shriekmaw and Zameck Guildmage gives combo as well as card advantage compared to Mulldrifter Reclamation Sage Strong ETB but I'm not sure what to remove to give them place
More card tesing and results might be coming later
-= WOTC Gatherer Enhanced =- theme project for Gatherer from Stylish.
I really appreciate help with developing the theme, so please send me ideas or CSS code and I will try to include it in my theme.
If that's not an option I really like the Lich.
I run it in 5 color decks and if I'm worried it gets killed I add a few Lord of the Undead.
Maybe some Graveborn Muses for card draw.
I'd be wary of the Agenda. But that's probably because I really dislike exiling my own stuff.
Not sure about the draw spells. I prefer reusable draw or big draw spells. (Shamanic Revelation)
Thanks for Great suggestions.
I dropped Omnath, Locus of Mana to one as suggested and increased Havengul Lich to 3x.
I'm just worried that adding too many 5 CMC cards might end up me drawing 2-3 of them in my starting hand and losing early game. Meren of Clan Nel Toth is also great card for the deck and its price is in my budget limit. Vampire Nighthawks are pretty much best defensive cards in 3 CMC slot that I have so i'm leaving them in the deck for now. They let me cast turn 4 Fact or Fiction in peace.
Shardless Agent is also great card but unfortunately bit out of my price range.
My playgroup runs pretty many black creatures so Shriekmaw may not be best option even if its evoke is nice in this deck.
I proxied Reclamation Sage, Deadeye Navigator, Sylvan Primordial and I'm trying to figure out what instants to replace from the deck.
Maybe 25 creatures is the best count for this deck?
-= WOTC Gatherer Enhanced =- theme project for Gatherer from Stylish.
I really appreciate help with developing the theme, so please send me ideas or CSS code and I will try to include it in my theme.
I don't understand the Yawgmoth's Agenda aspect of the deck at all. I get that you can bounce it with Into the Roil... but why? What's the incentive? Blue/Black/Green are the overpowered colors and have access to absurdly broken draw spells such as Mystic Remora, Rhystic Study, Trade Secrets, Greater Good, Syphon Mind, Recurring Insight, on and on and on. Rather than slowly accruing value over a time period of time by investing a whack of mana into Roiling an Agenda you could simply dedicated 6-8 slots to overpowered draw and not have to worry about fielding a ton of marginal spells. That way you could focus your efforts on developing an extremely powerful value deck that features solid finishers like PoKruphix and the Lich. I mean, isn't that why the Lich is here? To recur your/their best threats? What do you need Agenda for? Why bother supporting it?
I dunno, would't you rather jam those BSZs and ItRs and Agendas into an UB Control deck? Tons of mass removal, good recursion and then some bomby finisher like Sepulchral Primordial? I just don't understand why you'd play a bunch of Wraths in a creature-based combo deck, especially since it's a Wrath that never hits the GY in a deck that's playing GY recursion (Agenda). I feel like there's too many moving parts when all you really need are good threats that curve into PoKruphix.
I also feel like you have a very different meta than most because your deck is PACKED with early-game interaction. Strixes, Nighthawks, Trygons, Wraths, spot removal, and you still feel like your deck is too slow? What is everyone else doing lol? You play way more cheap interaction than most of us do because, let's get real, cards like Strix and Nighthawk and Trygon and such don't actually win games. They block, they disrupt, they gain a bit of life, etc. but they do not swing for 60. Look at your deck and count the number of cards that can actually win games. 3 Liches, 1 Meren and 1 Omnath? So 5? You have good cards, don't get me wrong, but how many them can legitimately win a game of Magic in a multiplayer setting? The number is very small. I like value as much of the next guy but you can't win until everyone else loses and your deck isn't using Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord to FlingLord of Extinctions at people or comboing Miakeus, the Unahllowed with Triskelion. You're turning dudes sideways and hoping for the best and you're not going to get there 1-2 points at a time. In that sense I definitely agree that you need cards like Deadeye Navigator and Sylvan Primordial that have a profound impact on the game.
Thanks for in-depth reply. It might help if I explain better how my playgroup works.
We play mostly teams or attack left and many decks have really fast starts in first 3 turns.
T1 -> Monastery Swiftspear, T2 -> Rancor, T3 -> Assault Strobe + Vines of Vastwood is very realistic start from some of the players.
In teams if my teammate(s) is/are shielded behind walls for getting combo out, I have to take care of 2-3 players so my life goes down really fast if I don't have many cheap creatures and removal. Many of my cards are also dedicated to help my teammates from early aggro if many opponents target them. Many players have up to 20-40 deck so I have seen everything from super slow horsemanship decks to turn 3-4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. So I have to be prepared for early defense, helping my teammates and occasional nasty surprises.
Yawgmoth's Agenda is my personal flavor card to add for the deck as other players don't use it and it works pretty well even if it might not be optimal. I agree that I have really low count of late game threats, but I have difficulties in finding balance between early - late game cards.
I had 4x Black Sun's Zenith already and better mass removal costs usually much more in the colors. Bsz takes care of hexproofed, indestructible creatures and doesn't exile itself even if Yawgmoth's Agenda is in play so it works pretty ok. I need some mass removal to take care of 2-3 players creatures at once mostly at turn 4. 4x Barter in Blood might also work ok?
I usually play strong control with smaller value / utility creatures as it keeps my aggro down. I can always add Havengul Lich count to 4x as its my main wincon. I'm always interested if there are good 1-8$ cards that don't cost tons of mana and can win the game with this deck.
-= WOTC Gatherer Enhanced =- theme project for Gatherer from Stylish.
I really appreciate help with developing the theme, so please send me ideas or CSS code and I will try to include it in my theme.
We play mostly teams or attack left and many decks have really fast starts in first 3 turns.
The fact that you play with teams is extremely relevant to deckbuilding. This dramatically decreases the need for powerful finishers. A motley crew of 1/1s and 2/2s is more than good enough in a 2HG setting (or whatever). It also guts the power-level of cards like Prophet of Kruphix too for what it's worth but that card is still pretty sweet.
Yawgmoth's Agenda is my personal flavor card to add for the deck as other players don't use it and it works pretty well even if it might not be optimal. I agree that I have really low count of late game threats, but I have difficulties in finding balance between early - late game cards.
It's also the third "build around me" 5 drop in your deck. I like the synergy of curving PoK into Lich into critters. Unlike most 5 drops you can't get these stuck in your hand because PoK removes mana from the equation. If you need more acceleration then that's also an easy fix since Green is the king of 1 CMC ramp. 4 of those goes a long way to helping to cast your spells ahead of the curve.
I had 4x Black Sun's Zenith already and better mass removal costs usually much more in the colors. Bsz takes care of hexproofed, indestructible creatures and doesn't exile itself even if Yawgmoth's Agenda is in play so it works pretty ok. I need some mass removal to take care of 2-3 players creatures at once mostly at turn 4. 4x Barter in Blood might also work ok?
I just don't understand why you wouldn't play with cards like Fleshbag Marauder and Shriekmaw in your creature-based revival deck that has cards like Meren of Clan Nel Toth. Mass removal is extremely weak in creature-based combo decks and I can't imagine wanting to draw a ton of Wraths when I have things like Strix, Nighthawk, Trygon, Meren, PoK and Lich in play. I would love to be the person casting Wraths against you so why be your own worst enemy? You want removal, ok. Why not play the removal that actually works with your strategy?
By the way, if no one in your meta plays with removal then you'd probably love Managorger Hydra. You know those people who invest 4 cards to build an attacker? Imagine that without the "4 cards" component.
Play together well.
The first fills graveyards very quickly for your Lich, especially when the Prophet's online.
The second ends games.
Combined the end is very nigh...
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In magic there's Harry Dresden, Fizban, Sethra Lavode, Dorotea Senjak and me...
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Great suggestions again. I proxied lots of your suggested cards and tested them heavily today.
Deck seems to work much better with increased creature count and lesser support for Yawgmoth's Agenda.
I still need some instants to help my teammates but 6x instant removal / bounce should be enough for first turns.
I'm really warming up for breaking my 20 creatures / 20 lands / 20 spells ratio with this deck and I could even add some milling. Managorger Hydra and Forgotten Ancient are great cards and work overtime in my other deck, but I could use creatures that grow with graveyards for a change?
If Havengul Lich + Prophet of Kruphix are not online, they grow stronger and eat removal. If I have combo online they get weaker as I reanimate creatures but I should be winning at that point anyway.
-= WOTC Gatherer Enhanced =- theme project for Gatherer from Stylish.
I really appreciate help with developing the theme, so please send me ideas or CSS code and I will try to include it in my theme.
Thank you again for great suggestions!
It's going to be game day at Saturday and I have proxied many cards from this thread.
Early game cards seem to be ok and its time to test how many finishers I can fit in the deck.
I'll report later how deck worked out and if it needs fine tuning
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-= WOTC Gatherer Enhanced =- theme project for Gatherer from Stylish.
I really appreciate help with developing the theme, so please send me ideas or CSS code and I will try to include it in my theme.
With only Havengul Lich out it gave me enough mana to reanimate 2-3 targets instantly and with just Prophet of Kruphix it grew really fast and won me few matches
Baleful Strix performed well and gave great value as defender but Coiling Oracle was pretty irrelevant as most creatures had evasion or trample after turn 3
Fleshbag Marauder was too overpowered with flash and reanimate from gy every turn. I had to remove them from the deck as they locked every other players creatures out of the game and I had to play pretty much archenemy.
They might not be best 4cmc creatures but they eat bolt like a champ, hit hard and have evasion.
I can also use them for situational card advantage when I know my top card with Courser of Kruphix, Oracle of Mul Daya and Future Sight
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-= WOTC Gatherer Enhanced =- theme project for Gatherer from Stylish.
I really appreciate help with developing the theme, so please send me ideas or CSS code and I will try to include it in my theme.
Hi, I commented on your TappedOut.net deck list, but I'm not sure if you saw it, so I'll post here as well.
I don't want to repeat too much of what has already been said (because I agree with most of it), but I did want to draw your attention to a few things.
If you are using the Lich to primarily cast your own creature spells, your only ETB triggers are:
Next point; with BSZ as your only 'sac outlet' Meren looks very weak and more like an oops than a real fit in the build. I read your concern about locking people out with the Marauder, but that is the point of the deck. When you take that out, you neuter yourself into mediocrity.
You use Prophet, but you have no mana producing creatures. If you put in 4x Joraga Treespeaker, your deck would suddenly feel like it's on speed. I agree this deck isn't the right one for Coiling Oracle (one of my top 5 favorite cards), they work better in bounce/blink decks, not graveyard manipulation.
I'm also confused by the high number of Instant cards. If you have 4x Lich, you should be using the spell effects on creatures so that you can reuse them any turn you like. As is, you are relying on the very expensive and slow method of recurring your Instant cards with the Witness. For example:
Thanks for suggestions and recommendations!
I decided to test one version of this deck before answering and I came to conclusion that your deck that you linked in Tappedout seems really fun to play, but I have to fit in different role in my team matches.
Your suggested cards are really good and are in line with what others have told me to use as well, so I'm dropping most of my earlier creatures and placing most suggested creatures in the deck.
I need certain amount of Instants to counter removal spells as my playgroup loves to play them and to keep my team-mates alive, but I decided to include dual-purpose cards, that counter spells and let me play my ETB-creatures again.
Smaller creatures from this thread work great and will stay in the deck.
I'm looking for alternatives for next cards:
Soul Manipulation nice counter-spell against big creatues that are hard to remove otherwise and can return my combo pieces / other removal creatures to play
-= WOTC Gatherer Enhanced =- theme project for Gatherer from Stylish.
I really appreciate help with developing the theme, so please send me ideas or CSS code and I will try to include it in my theme.
After tons of test games I have finally created pretty much final version of the deck.
I also posted analysis of some suggested cards and how they worked. Some were too OP and others too conditional for my playgroup.
Deck Is fun to play, has answers for most situations and in longer games really shines.
I have bought copies of many suggested cards that I have not yet tested and I will try them later.
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-= WOTC Gatherer Enhanced =- theme project for Gatherer from Stylish.
I really appreciate help with developing the theme, so please send me ideas or CSS code and I will try to include it in my theme.
After lots of playtesting I have created pretty much final version of this deck.
Thank you for all of your recommendations and helping me to create it.
Deck works really well and is a blast to play. Win ratio is good and even in larger matches I'm last players to stay in game.
Here is card-by-card analysis how cards work and how they interact with other cards :
A) Wincon
Havengul Lich + Prophet of Kruphix Combo to reanimate stuff from all graveyards at instant speed every turn.
B) Card Advantage
Fact or Fiction Draw 2-3 and reanimate rest with Havengul Lich later
Zameck Guildmage Draws cards really fast from Forgotten Ancient and Managorger Hydra. Basically opponent plays spell, I draw card. Also lets me add +1/+1 counters on creatures I reanimate from opponents graveyard so that I can later remove them for card advantage.
Sultai Charm Way to dig for either Havengul Lich or Prophet of Kruphix. Reanimate discarded cards later.
C) Protection
Glen Elendra Archmage Easy way to eat most of spot removal. Comboes nicely with Zameck Guildmage +1/+1 ability and comes back instant speed with Havengul Lich or Prophet of Kruphix online
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner Nice early game defence. Cheap to reanimate and Zameck Guildmage or Forgotten Ancient abilities doesn't target
Pact of Negation Counterspell to protect Prophet of Kruphix the turn I cast her as I play stuff on opponents turn anyway
Simic Charm Most problem for the deck is constant spot removal for Havengul Lich or Prophet of Kruphix so hexproof is nice counterspell
Llanowar Reborn Grafting Prophet of Kruphix saves her from lightning bolts
Far / Away Bounce for my creatures
Simic Charm Bounce for my creatures
D) Beaters
Forgotten Ancient fast grower that eats removal for Havengul Lich or Prophet of Kruphix. Enables card draw with Zameck Guildmage
Managorger Hydra fast grower that eats removal for Havengul Lich or Prophet of Kruphix. Enables card draw with Zameck Guildmage
E) Removal
Far / Away Scaling removal that can take care of hexproof / indestructible creatures
Simic Charm Bounce for slowing down heroic decks and similar.
Sultai Charm Conditional creature removal and artifact / enchantment removal
F) Cards tested and results
Fleshbag Marauder instant speed removal every turn turned out to be too good. Most opponents complained and ganged me out in next match.
Sepulchral Primordial & Sylvan Primordial Great finishers with strong etb effects. Won game by themselves, but i wanted to win by reanimating opponents graveyard so I removed them for now and replaced with protection for combo.
Mulldrifter & Shriekmaw good cards. My playgroup just plays too much black for Shriekmaw and Zameck Guildmage gives combo as well as card advantage compared to Mulldrifter
Reclamation Sage Strong ETB but I'm not sure what to remove to give them place
More card tesing and results might be coming later
2x Drowned Catacomb
4x Hinterland Harbor
2x Island
4x Llanowar Reborn
4x Opulent Palace
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Swamp
4x Forgotten Ancient
4x Glen Elendra Archmage
4x Havengul Lich
3x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4x Managorger Hydra
4x Prophet of Kruphix
3x Zameck Guildmage
3x Fact or Fiction
3x Far / Away
2x Pact of Negation
3x Simic Charm
3x Sultai Charm
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
I really appreciate help with developing the theme, so please send me ideas or CSS code and I will try to include it in my theme.
If that's not an option I really like the Lich.
I run it in 5 color decks and if I'm worried it gets killed I add a few Lord of the Undead.
Maybe some Graveborn Muses for card draw.
I'd be wary of the Agenda. But that's probably because I really dislike exiling my own stuff.
Not sure about the draw spells. I prefer reusable draw or big draw spells. (Shamanic Revelation)
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
I dropped Omnath, Locus of Mana to one as suggested and increased Havengul Lich to 3x.
I'm just worried that adding too many 5 CMC cards might end up me drawing 2-3 of them in my starting hand and losing early game.
Meren of Clan Nel Toth is also great card for the deck and its price is in my budget limit.
Vampire Nighthawks are pretty much best defensive cards in 3 CMC slot that I have so i'm leaving them in the deck for now. They let me cast turn 4 Fact or Fiction in peace.
Shardless Agent is also great card but unfortunately bit out of my price range.
My playgroup runs pretty many black creatures so Shriekmaw may not be best option even if its evoke is nice in this deck.
I proxied Reclamation Sage, Deadeye Navigator, Sylvan Primordial and I'm trying to figure out what instants to replace from the deck.
Maybe 25 creatures is the best count for this deck?
I really appreciate help with developing the theme, so please send me ideas or CSS code and I will try to include it in my theme.
I dunno, would't you rather jam those BSZs and ItRs and Agendas into an UB Control deck? Tons of mass removal, good recursion and then some bomby finisher like Sepulchral Primordial? I just don't understand why you'd play a bunch of Wraths in a creature-based combo deck, especially since it's a Wrath that never hits the GY in a deck that's playing GY recursion (Agenda). I feel like there's too many moving parts when all you really need are good threats that curve into PoKruphix.
I also feel like you have a very different meta than most because your deck is PACKED with early-game interaction. Strixes, Nighthawks, Trygons, Wraths, spot removal, and you still feel like your deck is too slow? What is everyone else doing lol? You play way more cheap interaction than most of us do because, let's get real, cards like Strix and Nighthawk and Trygon and such don't actually win games. They block, they disrupt, they gain a bit of life, etc. but they do not swing for 60. Look at your deck and count the number of cards that can actually win games. 3 Liches, 1 Meren and 1 Omnath? So 5? You have good cards, don't get me wrong, but how many them can legitimately win a game of Magic in a multiplayer setting? The number is very small. I like value as much of the next guy but you can't win until everyone else loses and your deck isn't using Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord to Fling Lord of Extinctions at people or comboing Miakeus, the Unahllowed with Triskelion. You're turning dudes sideways and hoping for the best and you're not going to get there 1-2 points at a time. In that sense I definitely agree that you need cards like Deadeye Navigator and Sylvan Primordial that have a profound impact on the game.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
We play mostly teams or attack left and many decks have really fast starts in first 3 turns.
T1 -> Monastery Swiftspear, T2 -> Rancor, T3 -> Assault Strobe + Vines of Vastwood is very realistic start from some of the players.
In teams if my teammate(s) is/are shielded behind walls for getting combo out, I have to take care of 2-3 players so my life goes down really fast if I don't have many cheap creatures and removal. Many of my cards are also dedicated to help my teammates from early aggro if many opponents target them. Many players have up to 20-40 deck so I have seen everything from super slow horsemanship decks to turn 3-4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. So I have to be prepared for early defense, helping my teammates and occasional nasty surprises.
Yawgmoth's Agenda is my personal flavor card to add for the deck as other players don't use it and it works pretty well even if it might not be optimal. I agree that I have really low count of late game threats, but I have difficulties in finding balance between early - late game cards.
I had 4x Black Sun's Zenith already and better mass removal costs usually much more in the colors. Bsz takes care of hexproofed, indestructible creatures and doesn't exile itself even if Yawgmoth's Agenda is in play so it works pretty ok. I need some mass removal to take care of 2-3 players creatures at once mostly at turn 4. 4x Barter in Blood might also work ok?
I usually play strong control with smaller value / utility creatures as it keeps my aggro down. I can always add Havengul Lich count to 4x as its my main wincon. I'm always interested if there are good 1-8$ cards that don't cost tons of mana and can win the game with this deck.
I really appreciate help with developing the theme, so please send me ideas or CSS code and I will try to include it in my theme.
The fact that you play with teams is extremely relevant to deckbuilding. This dramatically decreases the need for powerful finishers. A motley crew of 1/1s and 2/2s is more than good enough in a 2HG setting (or whatever). It also guts the power-level of cards like Prophet of Kruphix too for what it's worth but that card is still pretty sweet.
It's also the third "build around me" 5 drop in your deck. I like the synergy of curving PoK into Lich into critters. Unlike most 5 drops you can't get these stuck in your hand because PoK removes mana from the equation. If you need more acceleration then that's also an easy fix since Green is the king of 1 CMC ramp. 4 of those goes a long way to helping to cast your spells ahead of the curve.
I just don't understand why you wouldn't play with cards like Fleshbag Marauder and Shriekmaw in your creature-based revival deck that has cards like Meren of Clan Nel Toth. Mass removal is extremely weak in creature-based combo decks and I can't imagine wanting to draw a ton of Wraths when I have things like Strix, Nighthawk, Trygon, Meren, PoK and Lich in play. I would love to be the person casting Wraths against you so why be your own worst enemy? You want removal, ok. Why not play the removal that actually works with your strategy?
By the way, if no one in your meta plays with removal then you'd probably love Managorger Hydra. You know those people who invest 4 cards to build an attacker? Imagine that without the "4 cards" component.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Play together well.
The first fills graveyards very quickly for your Lich, especially when the Prophet's online.
The second ends games.
Combined the end is very nigh...
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Deck seems to work much better with increased creature count and lesser support for Yawgmoth's Agenda.
I dropped number if instants heavily and added Fleshbag Marauders for removal. They may work with Havengul Lich + Prophet of Kruphix as well as any instant removal.
I also dropped Yawgmoth's Agendas to 1 and added few Venser, Shaper Savant to support it instead of Into the Roils
I still need some instants to help my teammates but 6x instant removal / bounce should be enough for first turns.
I'm really warming up for breaking my 20 creatures / 20 lands / 20 spells ratio with this deck and I could even add some milling.
Managorger Hydra and Forgotten Ancient are great cards and work overtime in my other deck, but I could use creatures that grow with graveyards for a change?
If Havengul Lich + Prophet of Kruphix are not online, they grow stronger and eat removal. If I have combo online they get weaker as I reanimate creatures but I should be winning at that point anyway.
I have hard time deciding late game threats from Vulturous Zombie, Lord of Extinction and Consuming Aberration as they are 5 CMC and compete with Havengul Lich and Prophet of Kruphix.
Should I just add more 3-4 CMC growing threats or 5 < CMC finishers even if I have 7-8 5CMC cards?
I really appreciate help with developing the theme, so please send me ideas or CSS code and I will try to include it in my theme.
24 land
12 spells of cost 0 to 2
12 of cost 3 or 4
12 of cost 5 and up.
With these numbers a lot of 5 cost cards are not a problem.
(sometimes I tweak the numbers but this is the startingpoint)
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
It's going to be game day at Saturday and I have proxied many cards from this thread.
Early game cards seem to be ok and its time to test how many finishers I can fit in the deck.
I'll report later how deck worked out and if it needs fine tuning
I really appreciate help with developing the theme, so please send me ideas or CSS code and I will try to include it in my theme.
What I have gathered from decks performance and what changes were made :
CARD PERFORMANCE
CARD BALANCE
I'm adding Future Sight to be able to play creatures from top of my library as they had flash with Prophet of Kruphix.
Few Eternal Witness are also going in to deck as they are best at what they do.
I can also use them for situational card advantage when I know my top card with Courser of Kruphix, Oracle of Mul Daya and Future Sight
I really appreciate help with developing the theme, so please send me ideas or CSS code and I will try to include it in my theme.
I don't want to repeat too much of what has already been said (because I agree with most of it), but I did want to draw your attention to a few things.
If you are using the Lich to primarily cast your own creature spells, your only ETB triggers are:
- Baleful Strix
- Eternal Witness
- Venser, Shaper Savant
How about adding some things with real punch like:- The Mimeoplasm
- Grave Titan
- Massacre Wurm
- Avenger of Zendikar
- Diluvian Primordial
- Sepulchral Primordial
- Sylvan Primordial
Next point; with BSZ as your only 'sac outlet' Meren looks very weak and more like an oops than a real fit in the build. I read your concern about locking people out with the Marauder, but that is the point of the deck. When you take that out, you neuter yourself into mediocrity.You use Prophet, but you have no mana producing creatures. If you put in 4x Joraga Treespeaker, your deck would suddenly feel like it's on speed. I agree this deck isn't the right one for Coiling Oracle (one of my top 5 favorite cards), they work better in bounce/blink decks, not graveyard manipulation.
I'm also confused by the high number of Instant cards. If you have 4x Lich, you should be using the spell effects on creatures so that you can reuse them any turn you like. As is, you are relying on the very expensive and slow method of recurring your Instant cards with the Witness. For example:
- Acidic Slime
- Nekrataal
- Overseer of the Damned
- Reclamation Sage
I also want to throw out the idea of Kruphix, God of HorizonsThanks for suggestions and recommendations!
I decided to test one version of this deck before answering and I came to conclusion that your deck that you linked in Tappedout seems really fun to play, but I have to fit in different role in my team matches.
Your suggested cards are really good and are in line with what others have told me to use as well, so I'm dropping most of my earlier creatures and placing most suggested creatures in the deck.
I need certain amount of Instants to counter removal spells as my playgroup loves to play them and to keep my team-mates alive, but I decided to include dual-purpose cards, that counter spells and let me play my ETB-creatures again.
Smaller creatures from this thread work great and will stay in the deck.
I'm looking for alternatives for next cards:
I really appreciate help with developing the theme, so please send me ideas or CSS code and I will try to include it in my theme.
I also posted analysis of some suggested cards and how they worked. Some were too OP and others too conditional for my playgroup.
Deck Is fun to play, has answers for most situations and in longer games really shines.
I have bought copies of many suggested cards that I have not yet tested and I will try them later.
I really appreciate help with developing the theme, so please send me ideas or CSS code and I will try to include it in my theme.
Happy to help and looking forward for the next.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.