0x Mizzium Meddler? It's pretty good at protecting Azami and pairs well with Dexter's Lab. You don't need 4 or anything but 1-2 might help.
I like Voidmage Prodigy in Nykthos decks if for no other reason that it's UU. I know that having to sac dudes isn't ideal but having hard counters is still very useful. Creatures are very good and Patron Wizard doesn't lock spells out of the game by any means so I like having some amount of "Counterspells" in my U decks.
I'm surprised to see 3x Patron Wizard and 3x Master of Waves but full playsets of very marginal cards like Banneret and Thought Courier. I also think that 4x Sticher and 4x Alchemist is overkill even though I recognize that Stitcher can always be looted away and Unearthed for a big combo turn. The fact that your nut draw is like Voidmage Prodigy into Patron Wizard into Master of Waves into Azami kinda makes me want to play 4 of each personally.
On that note, I've never been impressed by Bannerets. The fact that this is a Nykthos deck slightly offsets that reaction but I still don't think that they're worth playing.
Is Aether Adept better than Tidebinder Mage? Legitimately curious. I really like 2 CMC UU dudes in Nykthos decks and if you're always bouncing some big, dumb Green thing then you may as well "kill it."
Keep Cosi's Trickster in mind. I obviously don't know your meta at all but of people use Fetchlands then she's a relevant 1 drop who's also a good blocker. Casting anything on turn 1 is useful in Nykthos decks insofar as you're not super unhappy to see the card on like turn 5. I almost always play a card like Thrull Parasite or Bloodchief Ascension in my Nykthos Black decks and I can tell you that having a few of them really does go a long way. Even if it's not cast on turn 1 any 2 spell turn is a big game when you're following it up with a card like Master of Waves.
Thoughts on Keeper of the Mind? I want to stress that I consider a resolved Azami who isn't dying to be a game win so I'm not factoring that in my evaluation of her. I'm thinking of games where you just curve out with cheap Wizards but you fail to assemble some combo or you can't protect your key threats. Keeper is a good draw engine and your deck, as it stands, actually has a ton of "ramp" which makes it easy to empty your hand.
Definitely stuff to consider. The above list is mostly all-in on the "combo" play, though it may be better to run stuff like Voidmage, Cosi's, etc and play a more balanced approach.
I do definitely like Adept over Tidebinder in this list in particular, since it can hit untapped guys, and notbaly, my own guys. If I get Azami/Fatestitcher/Nykthos/Intruder Alarm rolling, Aether Adept can let me take it fully infinite if I draw both copies. But even with one, I can bounce one wizard and recast it and get a ton of draws.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
or just cut it i suppose... i do like being able to get seat (which turns alchemist into a mana producer) or expedition map for laboratory. but you do have 4 seats and cutting trinket mage probably makes it worthwhile to just play a second laboratory and cut the map.
also, cursecatcher seems pretty good. and you are lacking in one drops.
Not sure I want to pack another Laboratory, as I don't really want to be in the position where I'm consistently hitting colorless lands with UUU-cost creatures in my hand. But I can definitely see doing something like -2 Trinket Mage, -1 Expedition Map, + each of Patron, Master, and maybe Aether Adept or Opposition.
Cursecatcher also seems okay, but I think I'm fine without one drops for now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
An alternative 1 drop is Enclave Cryptologist. It combos well with your untappers and give you something to do when you don't have an Azami kicking around. She's fairly mana-hungry which isn't ideal but she is a mana sink for Nykthos which is nice. Otherwise there's always Ponder and Preordain which are both stellar in Blue-based combo decks. I realize that you want creatures more than spells but even then I think that if you just shave combo pieces such as untappers and Bannerets in favor of cantrips your deck just plain gains additional consistency. Drawing a bunch of untappers but no Azami or drawing a bunch of 4-5 mana spells but no support are both bad outcomes but with cantrips it's difficult to have terrible draws.
The Researchers will definitely be Patron Wizard #3-4 when I get ahold of them. I may slot in the other two Voidmages over the Bannerets, depending how those play out.
In testing: The deck is definitely powerful. Intruder Alarm + Azami + untappers is basically auto-win, even without Nykthos. I'm supremely happy with how well Master of Waves plays into the Combo plan, because getting 7+ Intruder Alarm triggers off of one card is game over.
Considering a stronger Tempo "Sideboard" for games where I don't just want to combo out. Will likely include the other two Voidmages, the other two Aether Adepts, the fourth Opposition, and some one drops (Cursecatcher maybe? Cosi's Trickster?). Maybe Equilibrium? A Meloku the Clouded Mirror or two as curve-toppers?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
In testing: The deck is definitely powerful. Intruder Alarm + Azami + untappers is basically auto-win, even without Nykthos. I'm supremely happy with how well Master of Waves plays into the Combo plan, because getting 7+ Intruder Alarm triggers off of one card is game over.
Considering a stronger Tempo "Sideboard" for games where I don't just want to combo out. Will likely include the other two Voidmages, the other two Aether Adepts, the fourth Opposition, and some one drops (Cursecatcher maybe? Cosi's Trickster?). Maybe Equilibrium? A Meloku the Clouded Mirror or two as curve-toppers?
I've played the 1 drops before and have come to conclusion that they're never worth running. Soft counters such as CC are just way too weak because they become obsolete almost immediately. MP games tend to run long and most people should be playing with some form of fast mana and so I find that it's nearly impossible to get consistent value from those kinds of cards. Even in super cutthroat metagames I still think that cards like Daze and Spell Pierce are horrendous compared to things like Swan Song. Cosi's Trickster is fun on turn 1 because of fetchlands/ramp/tutors but at the end of the day she's just a generic beater who sucks to topdeck at most stages of the game. She might be the overall best Blue 1 drop creature but that's still lightyears behind a card like Ponder or Preordain. Even in decks with Nykthos which could, in theory, support really bad 1 drops (we're talking Merfolk of the Pearl Trident level bad here) it's still been my experience that the winnigest decks ignore them in favor of cards that always do something.
I think that Meloku gets a lot of hype because of good she was in her Standard format but the era in which she represents a real Magic card has long since passed. She's just not a real clock nowadays. It may seem odd but I've seen cards like Arcanis the Omnipotent and Memnarch do a ton of work as finishers because of how well they work with big mana and counterspell protection. They're slow as Hell but they have very powerful effects and these decks usually have a lot more ramp than it seems. I will qualify that statement by saying that I generally see Mind Over Matter paired with Azami and that Nykthos + MoM is uhh... yeah... It's actually hard not to go infinite, draw your deck, cast a Laboratory Maniac with trillions of backup, on and on and on. Even if you're not trying to abuse infinites you'll still accidentally stumble into one :P.
When I see Wizard decks win it's through card advantage, extra turns and counterspells so that's where I'd focus my efforts personally. I do like Master of Waves as a super threatening clock but something like Meloku just isn't going to cut it.
Blue doesn't have fantastic UU 2 drops but I will say that I was supremely disappointed with Harbinger of Tides when I tested it. I thought that a "fixed" Venser, Shaper Savant (that could be cast on turn 2 for Devotion) would still be a reasonable Magic card but it wildly underperformed for me. Even if your deck has Riptide Laboratory it's just way too weak and the card is basically worthless when you run it out on turn 2 (which you want to). Again, I recognize that Blue doesn't have amazing 2 drops by any means, but even things Voidmage Prodigy and Deranged Assistant (any mana producing 2 drop) still outperformed the crap out of Harbinger for me. The reality is that Blue decks generally don't care about turns 8+ because once you get there you've already won so you really need your 2 drops to be good on turn 2 and Harbinger just isn't. Any 2 drop that drew cards, countered spells, produced mana, etc. did so much more for me. Your expensive spells are just so ridiculous overpowered that you really don't need to worry about marginal tempo plays when you could just be ramping them out and/or protecting them.
I guess I just leave in the Aphetto Alchemists when I go into tempo mode then.
Have you tried a version of the deck with a mana rock in one of the slots to support it? Worn Powerstone at 3 CMC for example. I personally love to play ramp in Blue because the color is just so good at drawing cards and countering spells so you can really put 10+ mana to use every circuit. Even in decks with Nykthos I still like artifact ramp if you can find room for it, especially if you're already playing with untappers.
Have you tried a version of the deck with a mana rock in one of the slots to support it? Worn Powerstone at 3 CMC for example. I personally love to play ramp in Blue because the color is just so good at drawing cards and countering spells so you can really put 10+ mana to use every circuit. Even in decks with Nykthos I still like artifact ramp if you can find room for it, especially if you're already playing with untappers.
That seems feasible. I'll play around with it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Have you tried a version of the deck with a mana rock in one of the slots to support it? Worn Powerstone at 3 CMC for example. I personally love to play ramp in Blue because the color is just so good at drawing cards and countering spells so you can really put 10+ mana to use every circuit. Even in decks with Nykthos I still like artifact ramp if you can find room for it, especially if you're already playing with untappers.
That seems feasible. I'll play around with it.
It's obviously greedy since your deck is full of do-nothings so it really just boils down to your meta. I can't speak for anyone else but I'm not accustomed to facing much aggro so I'm used to slower games comprised of extremely powerful cards. We had to move away from combo since it's just too rough for newer players to compete in a turn 3-4 metagame (they just weren't having fun watching people with cutthroat decks win) and since aggro is generally terrible (mana rocks + Wrath of Gods is literally impossible to beat) we're kinda at slow, rampy, battlecruiser Magic similar to EDH.
The play routes of this deck are:
1) Make huge devotion, then Master of Waves to dominate the board, with Patron Wizard letting you keep people off of wraths
2) Utilize Azami, Lady of Scrolls + Intruder Alarm + mana-generating Wizards (Aphetto Alchemist/Fatestitcher) to dig through huge portions of your deck
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Riptide Laboratory
14 Island
4 Stonybrook Banneret
4 Aphetto Alchemist
4 Thought Courier
2 Trinket Mage
2 Aether Adept
1 Laboratory Maniac
3 Patron Wizard
4 Fatestitcher
3 Master of Waves
4 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1 Expedition Map
2 Opposition
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
0x Mizzium Meddler? It's pretty good at protecting Azami and pairs well with Dexter's Lab. You don't need 4 or anything but 1-2 might help.
I like Voidmage Prodigy in Nykthos decks if for no other reason that it's UU. I know that having to sac dudes isn't ideal but having hard counters is still very useful. Creatures are very good and Patron Wizard doesn't lock spells out of the game by any means so I like having some amount of "Counterspells" in my U decks.
I'm surprised to see 3x Patron Wizard and 3x Master of Waves but full playsets of very marginal cards like Banneret and Thought Courier. I also think that 4x Sticher and 4x Alchemist is overkill even though I recognize that Stitcher can always be looted away and Unearthed for a big combo turn. The fact that your nut draw is like Voidmage Prodigy into Patron Wizard into Master of Waves into Azami kinda makes me want to play 4 of each personally.
On that note, I've never been impressed by Bannerets. The fact that this is a Nykthos deck slightly offsets that reaction but I still don't think that they're worth playing.
Is Aether Adept better than Tidebinder Mage? Legitimately curious. I really like 2 CMC UU dudes in Nykthos decks and if you're always bouncing some big, dumb Green thing then you may as well "kill it."
Keep Cosi's Trickster in mind. I obviously don't know your meta at all but of people use Fetchlands then she's a relevant 1 drop who's also a good blocker. Casting anything on turn 1 is useful in Nykthos decks insofar as you're not super unhappy to see the card on like turn 5. I almost always play a card like Thrull Parasite or Bloodchief Ascension in my Nykthos Black decks and I can tell you that having a few of them really does go a long way. Even if it's not cast on turn 1 any 2 spell turn is a big game when you're following it up with a card like Master of Waves.
Thoughts on Keeper of the Mind? I want to stress that I consider a resolved Azami who isn't dying to be a game win so I'm not factoring that in my evaluation of her. I'm thinking of games where you just curve out with cheap Wizards but you fail to assemble some combo or you can't protect your key threats. Keeper is a good draw engine and your deck, as it stands, actually has a ton of "ramp" which makes it easy to empty your hand.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I do definitely like Adept over Tidebinder in this list in particular, since it can hit untapped guys, and notbaly, my own guys. If I get Azami/Fatestitcher/Nykthos/Intruder Alarm rolling, Aether Adept can let me take it fully infinite if I draw both copies. But even with one, I can bounce one wizard and recast it and get a ton of draws.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Trinket Mage does seem like a good cut.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
or just cut it i suppose... i do like being able to get seat (which turns alchemist into a mana producer) or expedition map for laboratory. but you do have 4 seats and cutting trinket mage probably makes it worthwhile to just play a second laboratory and cut the map.
also, cursecatcher seems pretty good. and you are lacking in one drops.
Cursecatcher also seems okay, but I think I'm fine without one drops for now.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
So what I ended up going with, based on what cards I was able to get at my LGS and what I had on me, plus suggestions here was:
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Riptide Laboratory
14 Island
2 Hapless Researcher
4 Enclave Cryptologist
2 Stonybrook Banneret
2 Voidmage Prodigy
4 Aphetto Alchemist
2 Aether Adept
1 Laboratory Maniac
2 Patron Wizard
4 Fatestitcher
4 Master of Waves
4 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
3 Opposition
The Researchers will definitely be Patron Wizard #3-4 when I get ahold of them. I may slot in the other two Voidmages over the Bannerets, depending how those play out.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Considering a stronger Tempo "Sideboard" for games where I don't just want to combo out. Will likely include the other two Voidmages, the other two Aether Adepts, the fourth Opposition, and some one drops (Cursecatcher maybe? Cosi's Trickster?). Maybe Equilibrium? A Meloku the Clouded Mirror or two as curve-toppers?
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
I've played the 1 drops before and have come to conclusion that they're never worth running. Soft counters such as CC are just way too weak because they become obsolete almost immediately. MP games tend to run long and most people should be playing with some form of fast mana and so I find that it's nearly impossible to get consistent value from those kinds of cards. Even in super cutthroat metagames I still think that cards like Daze and Spell Pierce are horrendous compared to things like Swan Song. Cosi's Trickster is fun on turn 1 because of fetchlands/ramp/tutors but at the end of the day she's just a generic beater who sucks to topdeck at most stages of the game. She might be the overall best Blue 1 drop creature but that's still lightyears behind a card like Ponder or Preordain. Even in decks with Nykthos which could, in theory, support really bad 1 drops (we're talking Merfolk of the Pearl Trident level bad here) it's still been my experience that the winnigest decks ignore them in favor of cards that always do something.
I think that Meloku gets a lot of hype because of good she was in her Standard format but the era in which she represents a real Magic card has long since passed. She's just not a real clock nowadays. It may seem odd but I've seen cards like Arcanis the Omnipotent and Memnarch do a ton of work as finishers because of how well they work with big mana and counterspell protection. They're slow as Hell but they have very powerful effects and these decks usually have a lot more ramp than it seems. I will qualify that statement by saying that I generally see Mind Over Matter paired with Azami and that Nykthos + MoM is uhh... yeah... It's actually hard not to go infinite, draw your deck, cast a Laboratory Maniac with trillions of backup, on and on and on. Even if you're not trying to abuse infinites you'll still accidentally stumble into one :P.
When I see Wizard decks win it's through card advantage, extra turns and counterspells so that's where I'd focus my efforts personally. I do like Master of Waves as a super threatening clock but something like Meloku just isn't going to cut it.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Blue doesn't have fantastic UU 2 drops but I will say that I was supremely disappointed with Harbinger of Tides when I tested it. I thought that a "fixed" Venser, Shaper Savant (that could be cast on turn 2 for Devotion) would still be a reasonable Magic card but it wildly underperformed for me. Even if your deck has Riptide Laboratory it's just way too weak and the card is basically worthless when you run it out on turn 2 (which you want to). Again, I recognize that Blue doesn't have amazing 2 drops by any means, but even things Voidmage Prodigy and Deranged Assistant (any mana producing 2 drop) still outperformed the crap out of Harbinger for me. The reality is that Blue decks generally don't care about turns 8+ because once you get there you've already won so you really need your 2 drops to be good on turn 2 and Harbinger just isn't. Any 2 drop that drew cards, countered spells, produced mana, etc. did so much more for me. Your expensive spells are just so ridiculous overpowered that you really don't need to worry about marginal tempo plays when you could just be ramping them out and/or protecting them.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Have you tried a version of the deck with a mana rock in one of the slots to support it? Worn Powerstone at 3 CMC for example. I personally love to play ramp in Blue because the color is just so good at drawing cards and countering spells so you can really put 10+ mana to use every circuit. Even in decks with Nykthos I still like artifact ramp if you can find room for it, especially if you're already playing with untappers.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
That seems feasible. I'll play around with it.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
It's obviously greedy since your deck is full of do-nothings so it really just boils down to your meta. I can't speak for anyone else but I'm not accustomed to facing much aggro so I'm used to slower games comprised of extremely powerful cards. We had to move away from combo since it's just too rough for newer players to compete in a turn 3-4 metagame (they just weren't having fun watching people with cutthroat decks win) and since aggro is generally terrible (mana rocks + Wrath of Gods is literally impossible to beat) we're kinda at slow, rampy, battlecruiser Magic similar to EDH.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold