I typically play star (i.e., I have to kill 2 people first in a 5 player game), 2HG (or 3 or 4HG), or in a group that usually ends up with me vs. 3 players (they try to take me out first, so any of them can win). Games are on the shorter end of the spectrum and "all opponents" would never be more than 3. No infinite combos - though if there are cards that are good on their own and just happen to combo, that's kosher.
I need to shave creatures a bit. Two questions: 1) Any additional suggestions - what would you swap for what? 2) It feels like no matter how I tweak this, it will only become marginally better - and perhaps the dollars would be better spent on an Exalted deck or something. Thoughts?
I would personally cut Ajani for Cathars' Crusade or Dictate of Heliod. Obelisk or Urd or Coat of Arms would also work fine. This deck needs 1 or 2 big, dumb, game-winning spells. For what it's worth I would just plain never even consider omitting Angel of Glory's Rise entirely (even 1 is fine) because it's just so God damned good when it's good and your deck does have Nykthos. I dunno, I just hate playing decks that don't have Sun Titans and Angel of Despairs when I know that games are going to go long. I want at least 2-4 cards in my deck that are just gigantic bombs.
For creatures, -1 Champion -1 Adaptive -1 Syndic. I'll also throw out my 2 cents and say that I think that War Priest of Thune is crap and I would personally run Utter End in its place. I've been EXTREMELY impressed by that card in every MP setting. WPoT, on the other hand, has always disappointed me. Utter End is like a dollar and I'll still happily play 4 of them in all of my BW decks. It's so freaking versatile and powerful. 2 big thumbs-up for that one. It's not better than Vindicate obviously but it's a freaking dollar and it's still sugoi~~~.
You're right; adding money to this deck will only make it marginally better. I would keep it more-or-less as is and focus on other projects.
Thanks for the perspective - I agree on all points (i.e., the need for bombs, Utter End as superior removal, and that tribal human is currently not a very synergistic tribe). There are only 19 humans that care about being human (i.e., where the creature subtype is Human and the rules also reference human).
If you would consider running red as the secondary color instead of Black or Green, then 3 copies of Norin the Wary becomes rather hilarious in MP alongside Champion of the Parish and/or Mentor of the Meek as you will blink on pretty much everyone's turns. Red offers other interesting Humans too.
Assuming you stay 3 color, Cavern of Souls? Helps cast stuff.
Since you're aggro, why not Banisher Priest over Fiend Hunter? Card is definitely better in 1-on-1 than multiplayer, but is not awful.
Why ruling out Xathrid Necromancer? Haruspex is good, but you could run both. It's a lot of Wrath protection.
With 4 Skullclamp in deck, why not run more efficient ways to produce 1/1s? e.g Lingering Souls (admittedly not Human), or Raise the Alarm, or Increasing Devotion or similar cards. Or even Doomed Travelers. If you're going to play that many of a broken card, seems like you should be trying to abuse it more or just replace it with a card that doesn't enrage people so much?
I somehow missed the "Adaptive Automaton is the chosen type in addition to its other types." part. So yes, Paragon of New Dawns is the worse card. Only advantage is, that Paragon of New Dawns can be recurred with Angel of Glory's Rise (which isn't in the decklisrt right now).
How can you not run Angel of Glory's Rise in a human tribal deck that runs white as its main color in a multiplayer deck?!
Yeah, it's a great card and reading Pride3's blog post on it + Humans was what started me on this deck. In practice, though, the 7 CMC was a big deterrent in a deck without much draw and conditional ramp (I'm so used to casting Primeval Titan around turn 4 - so waiting until turn 9 or 10 to resolve the angel was frustrating. And often the game was already over). So I had pulled those.
With stronger card draw and Nykthos, I'll revisit. I'm sure I can find space for a couple.
If you would consider running red as the secondary color instead of Black or Green, then 3 copies of Norin the Wary becomes rather hilarious in MP alongside Champion of the Parish and/or Mentor of the Meek as you will blink on pretty much everyone's turns.
Sure - I've been looking at that EDH deck for a while. I think that's another direction for the deck, though - adding Purphoros, etc. Might do that with the tokens deck (and already do that with a Hornet Nest deck), but wasn't initially thinking about taking this in the same direction. i.e., 3 decks would be enough.
Why ruling out Xathrid Necromancer? Haruspex is good, but you could run both. It's a lot of Wrath protection.
I could, but I'm not sure how many spaces I really need. Skullclamp also allows me to draw a couple cards when that Wrath resolves. The Angel is another couple slots - and doesn't necessarily love the Necromancer tokens. What would you remove for Xathrid Necromancer?
Your deck has 4 Clamps and 2 Mentors. What exactly qualifies as "strong" card draw to you lol?
Yes, but that's the future deck. The current deck only has 4 Mentors as draw. But I have a few Clamps kicking around to at least move the deck that far forward - and I can add back a couple Angels at the same time.
i.e., I'm sold on the card, but my initial deck implementation didn't really support them.
Given that you're running 4 clamps now, don't you want to be running some 1/1 Human token generators?
Would prolly need non-human token generators since there is a good chance that a Human lord would be in play, making those 1/1s into 2/2s. Spirits or soldiers seem easiest (and it already has a few Hero of Bladeholds). Did you have something in mind?
I'm also OK with just using the clamps when creatures die of other causes - i.e., they are less likely to be targeted by removal in that case.
Unfortunately, we don't really do infinite combos in my group (Meta information is in the first post in spoiler tags). But the angel and the Fiend Hunter would certainly provide board wipe protection.
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4 Champion of the Parish
3 Mother of Runes
4 Syndic of Tithes
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Mentor of the Meek
4 Silverblade Paladin
4 Mirror Entity
1 Frontline Medic
2 Fiend Hunter
1 Gideon's Avenger
3 Hero of Bladehold
1 Kongming, "Sleeping Dragon"
4 Honor of the Pure
2 Spear of Heliod
Lands (22)
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
21 Plains
Quantities were driven mostly by what I had available. I'm thinking of rebuilding with some combination of these cards:
4 Mother of Runes (Evasion)
3 Champion of the Parish (Beater)
4 Mayor of Avabruck (Lord)
4 Syndic of Tithes (Extort)
2 War Priest of Thune (Enchantments)
4 Adaptive Automaton (Lord)
2 Mentor of the Meek (Draw)
2 Silverblade Paladin (Beater)
1 Mirror Entity ("Lord")
3 Grim Haruspex (Wrath recovery)
1 Athreos, God of Passage (Wrath recovery)
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Ajani Goldmane ("Lord")
Equipment (5)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (Jitte)
4 Skullclamp (Draw)
Lands (24)
4 Mutavault
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Temple Garden
2 Overgrown Cemetery
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
6 Plains
(Cards I prolly won't play)
0 Skirsdag Flayer (No space)
0 Fiend Hunter (??)
0 Thraben Doomsayer (No space, slow)
0 Xathrid Necromancer (Using Grim Haruspex instead)
0 Armageddon (Incompatible with meta)
0 Somberwald Sage (??)
0 Magus of the Disk (Game is prolly already lost if I have to use this)
0 Angel of Glory's Rise (7 CMC)
0 Emeria, the Sky Ruin (8 CMC)
0 Homura, Human Ascendant (6 CMC)
0 Warden of the First Tree (6 CMC, not good enough)
0 Riders of Gavony (Using Mom instead)
I need to shave creatures a bit. Two questions: 1) Any additional suggestions - what would you swap for what? 2) It feels like no matter how I tweak this, it will only become marginally better - and perhaps the dollars would be better spent on an Exalted deck or something. Thoughts?
For creatures, -1 Champion -1 Adaptive -1 Syndic. I'll also throw out my 2 cents and say that I think that War Priest of Thune is crap and I would personally run Utter End in its place. I've been EXTREMELY impressed by that card in every MP setting. WPoT, on the other hand, has always disappointed me. Utter End is like a dollar and I'll still happily play 4 of them in all of my BW decks. It's so freaking versatile and powerful. 2 big thumbs-up for that one. It's not better than Vindicate obviously but it's a freaking dollar and it's still sugoi~~~.
You're right; adding money to this deck will only make it marginally better. I would keep it more-or-less as is and focus on other projects.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Assuming you stay 3 color, Cavern of Souls? Helps cast stuff.
Since you're aggro, why not Banisher Priest over Fiend Hunter? Card is definitely better in 1-on-1 than multiplayer, but is not awful.
Why ruling out Xathrid Necromancer? Haruspex is good, but you could run both. It's a lot of Wrath protection.
With 4 Skullclamp in deck, why not run more efficient ways to produce 1/1s? e.g Lingering Souls (admittedly not Human), or Raise the Alarm, or Increasing Devotion or similar cards. Or even Doomed Travelers. If you're going to play that many of a broken card, seems like you should be trying to abuse it more or just replace it with a card that doesn't enrage people so much?
I somehow missed the "Adaptive Automaton is the chosen type in addition to its other types." part. So yes, Paragon of New Dawns is the worse card. Only advantage is, that Paragon of New Dawns can be recurred with Angel of Glory's Rise (which isn't in the decklisrt right now).
Yeah, it's a great card and reading Pride3's blog post on it + Humans was what started me on this deck. In practice, though, the 7 CMC was a big deterrent in a deck without much draw and conditional ramp (I'm so used to casting Primeval Titan around turn 4 - so waiting until turn 9 or 10 to resolve the angel was frustrating. And often the game was already over). So I had pulled those.
With stronger card draw and Nykthos, I'll revisit. I'm sure I can find space for a couple.
Sure - I've been looking at that EDH deck for a while. I think that's another direction for the deck, though - adding Purphoros, etc. Might do that with the tokens deck (and already do that with a Hornet Nest deck), but wasn't initially thinking about taking this in the same direction. i.e., 3 decks would be enough.
Yep. I haven't been paying attention to the card - from $11 @ rotation to $28 now.
I could, but I'm not sure how many spaces I really need. Skullclamp also allows me to draw a couple cards when that Wrath resolves. The Angel is another couple slots - and doesn't necessarily love the Necromancer tokens. What would you remove for Xathrid Necromancer?
Your deck has 4 Clamps and 2 Mentors. What exactly qualifies as "strong" card draw to you lol?
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Yes, but that's the future deck. The current deck only has 4 Mentors as draw. But I have a few Clamps kicking around to at least move the deck that far forward - and I can add back a couple Angels at the same time.
i.e., I'm sold on the card, but my initial deck implementation didn't really support them.
Highway Robber is my personal choice. But if you go that route, you may as well play 4x Buried Alive.
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I'm also OK with just using the clamps when creatures die of other causes - i.e., they are less likely to be targeted by removal in that case.
Cool suggestions!
Unfortunately, we don't really do infinite combos in my group (Meta information is in the first post in spoiler tags). But the angel and the Fiend Hunter would certainly provide board wipe protection.