So I've been trying to put together a good deck to play Multiplayer with for a while, and I've always wanted to try to put together a creatureless deck with Chandra Ablaze as the 'keystone' card, if you will. I thought multiplayer would be a good chance to break out something like this, where there's a little less focus on strong starts/protection from Aggro. Not to mention the people I play with don't play super competitively, so I imagine it would perform at least decently if it was put together well. And that's what I need help with! I'm okay with thematic creatures in small numbers, like Aetherflame Wall and Chandra's Phoenix, but that's about it. Additionally, I'd like to stay on a relatively tight budget, so no Chain Lightning or other cards that are upwards of 7-10 bucks a piece, aside from Chandra Ablaze.
The biggest weaknesses I have this guy is that it just goes through cards too quickly, and I'm relying too much on Reforge the Soul to get me back in the game. Most of the cards are cheap and therefore easy to play one or two a turn, running me out of cards rather quickly. In playtests, getting a clutch Reforge the Soul means that I could usually dump my hand then redraw 7 for the miracle cost. However, if they aren't perfectly spaced, I'm left with 6 mana on the board and a Lightning Bolt in my hand playing in topdeck mode. Which is not so good. I was considering Browbeat as it pulls double duty for great burn damage or card draw. I'm not sure what to sub out for it though.
The other big problem is the lack of a finisher - I can wear people down left and right, but end game, when I've got a ton of free mana, I don't really have anything to do with it, especially with no cards in the hand. Maybe some Devil's Play? I already have one so it'd be pretty cheap for me to get a few more.
All advice is appreciated! Remember that I'm trying to keep the 'Pyromancy' theme and would prefer to stick to cheaper cards if possible!
EDIT: I would also like to add that I'd love more cards like Circle of Flame and to a lesser extent, Arc Blade, that I can put onto the field and get continuous return on. It helps with the lack of cards I will run into as well as doing double-duty of deterrent and a continuous return on my investment.
I would also consider splashing black for things like Terminate if it would enhance the deck and keep the theme.
What is Braid of Fire actually doing for you? Most of your deck consists of non-instant speed spells and permanents. The only two cards I see it working with are Pyrohemia and Lightning Bolt, neither of which seem like that great of a reason to include it. I'd drop the Braid of Fires.
You might want to also consider less single target damaging spells and move more towards things like Flame Rift, Sizzle and possibly even Breath of Malfegor if you think you're going to include black.
I prefer Slagstorm over Pyroclasm just for the situational ability to use it as burn. Both spells kill your only creature so the extra damage can only help clear the board.
What is Braid of Fire actually doing for you? Most of your deck consists of non-instant speed spells and permanents. The only two cards I see it working with are Pyrohemia and Lightning Bolt, neither of which seem like that great of a reason to include it. I'd drop the Braid of Fires.
You might want to also consider less single target damaging spells and move more towards things like Flame Rift, Sizzle and possibly even Breath of Malfegor if you think you're going to include black.
I prefer Slagstorm over Pyroclasm just for the situational ability to use it as burn. Both spells kill your only creature so the extra damage can only help clear the board.
Braid of Fire wasn't in the deck, just on the Maybeboard. I tossed it in there because I thought it might be worth considering, but it's good to know that it doesn't have synergy with my current loadout. I'll toss in some more multi-target damage spells, I'll get much more out of them than all the Lightning Bolts and whatnot. I'll keep Breath on the backburner in case I decide to splash black.
Yeah, good call, I definitely want to hold on to those lightning bolts as they're the most efficient single-target burn I have. Here's the changes I made:
I figure I can dump the phoenix's for board wipe. They're not that good and this is more fun anyway, which is the whole point of the deck. That leaves my burn looking like this:
I think that'll be plenty to keep me going until I can get a gauntlet out and do some mass damage. If I decide to splash black I'll probably dump the Arc Blades (I know they're crap, they're just too cool of a card) for Terminate and drop Sizzle or Flamebreak for Breath.
EDIT: I'm also going to -2 Everlasting Torment because they're about 3 bucks a pop, as well as the fact that one of the players I play with frequently plays lifegain. I figure make the deck a little less malicious as well as open up space and money to throw in another Chandra Ablaze. And an Arc Blade. Because I like Arc Blade.
Well if your going to remove your only creature then I think Flamebreak should be replaced with something like Blasphemous Act or even Earthquake. Both of those scale a lot better into late game.
Two problems I see here, and both are likely going to take this deck apart (yes, I'm going to be a debbie-downer... sorry...)
- I have never, ever, ever managed to get Chandra Ablaze to work. She comes down way too late for my meta, and never gets the opportunity to ultimate. By Turn 6, I was finding I was working too hard on staying alive to have the time and space to drop Chandra. And if I did, I've probably been slinging red things about for the best part of five turns, so your opponents know what's going to happen if they let her ultimate (hence, she gets blown off the table in short order). I would much rather be running Past in Flames - it's not telegraphed, it's cheaper to play, and it's repeatable thanks to its flashback (and it's cheaper to buy, too).
- Having all those high numbers of one-shot, one-target spells is a guarantee of running out of bullets in a multiplayer environment. In my experience, you'll end up throwing all those Forked Bolts, Lightning Bolts et al at the one guy who's taken a shine to beating you up, blow all his creatures away, and hopefully him too... and then the other guy who's been sitting quietly in the corner will start swinging, and you'll be out of ammo. Pyroclasm is really only good against token decks in my meta, and isn't something that gets played much... Titans, Consuming Aberration, and all the other gorillas running around in my meta will laugh Pyroclasm off. What you do want is repeatable blanket damage, like the aforementioned Blasphemous Act. Chain Reaction is good too.
Well if your going to remove your only creature then I think Flamebreak should be replaced with something like Blasphemous Act or even Earthquake. Both of those scale a lot better into late game.
Yeah, that's a good point. I should have 2-3 Blasphemous Acts already, so that'll be an easy fix.
Don't worry about it, I'm glad to hear the criticism! Let me preface by saying that meta is very, very casual and the decks aren't particularly crazy or competitive. The last multiplayer game I played was myself, a near-stock Kiora Duel Deck, and a life-gain deck built from scratch. The only reason I thought this could work is because of the relatively slow and plodding pace that most of our multiplayer games go. It's not uncommon for everyone to stock up and play defensively until someone plays something crazy and brings everything to a head. I've loved Chandra Ablaze from the moment I saw that card, and I've always been looking for a way to make her work. That's why I was so excited at the prospect of coming up with a deck for multiplayer games, as it was finally in a meta where the games were near-guaranteed to go on for a long time. Most of my choices are based on what I see my friends play, and I think it'll work at least reasonably well. I certainly don't expect to bring this deck into any other environs and expect it to shine. It's purely fun and thematic.
That being said, I think you're right about RX spells, as I need some finishers anyway. Also I don't know why I don't have Repercussion... If I'm playing creatureless, that seems like a no-brainer.
Don't worry about it, I'm glad to hear the criticism! Let me preface by saying that meta is very, very casual and the decks aren't particularly crazy or competitive. The last multiplayer game I played was myself, a near-stock Kiora Duel Deck, and a life-gain deck built from scratch. The only reason I thought this could work is because of the relatively slow and plodding pace that most of our multiplayer games go. It's not uncommon for everyone to stock up and play defensively until someone plays something crazy and brings everything to a head. I've loved Chandra Ablaze from the moment I saw that card, and I've always been looking for a way to make her work. That's why I was so excited at the prospect of coming up with a deck for multiplayer games, as it was finally in a meta where the games were near-guaranteed to go on for a long time. Most of my choices are based on what I see my friends play, and I think it'll work at least reasonably well. I certainly don't expect to bring this deck into any other environs and expect it to shine. It's purely fun and thematic.
That being said, I think you're right about RX spells, as I need some finishers anyway. Also I don't know why I don't have Repercussion... If I'm playing creatureless, that seems like a no-brainer.
Haha! I thought that might be the case, given the decklist... my meta is much faster, and threats get removed quickly. If we go the whole hog and turn this into Repercussion / Past in Flames and then Blasphemous Act for the win on Turn 5 or something, your playgroup will probably ask you to dismantle it in fairly short order!
So, yeah, we do need to temper it a little bit. If it's a slow meta with not much removal then Chandra can probably work. How about stuff that you can discard with Chandra and then reuse anyway? Punishing Fire? Devil's Play? Faithless Looting? Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded might even be worth a shout.
If you do take this down the Repercussion route, I know they're expensive-ish, but Forbidden Orchard is a wicked land to run.
You got it! After my Eldrazi ramp deck got all but banned in our casual circle, I figured it was time to pick up something a bit more easygoing, haha. They tend to pack a lot of removal, but generally only creature based. Doom Blade is a popular one, usually a four-off in any deck with black, but there's very little boardwipe/exile/planeswalker type removal. I really like the idea of reusable fodder - Punishing Fire is perfect because as I said, one of the players plays a life-gain deck. I was even considering Squee, Goblin Nabob, but unfortunately it's not fitting with the deck and would be useless if I ever got more than one in my hand. Do you have any recommendations on cards to swap out for Punishing Fire and Devil's Play? For reference, my current list of burn spells looks like this:
3 Arc Blade [Love the flavor of this card, I'll drop it if the deck is really crap without it, but if I can keep it in I will]
My knee-jerk reaction is to drop Sizzle since Punishing Fire and Devil's Play both accomplish the same thing but have more flexibility. I should mention that our MP games are usually three players, the most we might see is four, so in retrospect Sizzle and Breath of Malfegor are good but might not be as good as something else.
I really need to post an updated deck list after all these suggestions, haha! I decided to take out Everlasting Torment to save some cash and have enough to get another Chandra Ablaze, as well as because one of the newest players in the circle plays a life-gain deck that she's really taken a shine to. Everlasting Torment would shut her out pretty handily and as CadaverousBl00m was saying, I need to temper it a bit if I don't want it to end up like my Eldrazi deck, which is well hated by all of my friends now.
I think Punishing Fire should be alright without Grove because of our life-gain player, but perhaps I'll swap in Devil's Play when she's playing a different deck or not at all. I do agree with you though, Everlasting Torment is definitely a strong choice, and if this deck falls on it's face I'll probably add it in later.
If you're playing a mono-Red burn deck that's worried about lifegain just play Sulfuric Vortex. It's 1/3rd of the price of Everlasting Torment and it has a relevant trigger even if players aren't gaining life (i.e. no need to sideboard it in or out based on what other people are playing). Hell, it's basically the best card for this kind of strategy to begin with so there's very little reason to omit it.
I don't fully understand why you're hesitating on cards such as Sizzle. You said that your games comprise of 3-4 players. Breath of Malfegor deals 10-15 damage in those scenarios. Bolt deals 3-3. If you're playing a deck that wins by counting down from 60 I don't understand how you can elect to forgo fielding burn spells such as Flame Rift, Sizzle, Flamebreak, Acidic Soil, Manabarbs, etc. in favor of marginal playables such as Lightning Bolt and Arc Blade. You'll probably deck yourself before those kinds of spells will deal the necessary damage to to burn 3 players out lol.
I think that you overestimate Circle of Flame. Your list has a handful of small creatures (the Phoenixes) and nothing else. Unless your opponents are playing nothing but X/1s (unlikely) the card will do actual nothing in games/scenarios where you don't have a Phoenix out and even when you do every X/4 or greater will still be able to tangle with you. In order to make these kinds of cards effective you either need to play a lot of them (Caltrops, Powerstone Minefield, Lightmine Field), which is a flimsy + weak plan at best, or you need to hope to combo them with a card like Death Pits of Rath. Still, if you're just going to run a multi-card defense combo Glacial Chasm + Eon Hub is probably the way to go. I've employed that tactic in the past to moderate success mostly because it works extremely well with your burn gameplan. Faithless Looting, Tormenting Voice, Reforge the Soul, etc. can help you assemble it and/or pitch excess combo pieces so it's more consistent than it probably seems.
With respect to X burn spells, Comet Storm is worth considering. I've played Mana Geyser in the past to fuel giant X spells but I doubt that that card will work in 3 player games. It was trivial to generate enough mana in my 8 player ones, it always enabled me to empty my hand and/or fire off ginormous X spells, but that probably won't work for you.
Prid3, thank you for the suggestion, I'll keep Sulphuric Vortex in mind as well. But I'd like to clarify that it's not that I'm worried about lifegain, I'm worried it'll be very disappointing for our newest player, who runs a lifegain deck. The other day Erebos, God of the Dead got played and since she's still working on a well-rounded deck, she was unable to remove it and it completely knee-capped her game. I'm just trying to be a conscious of how much fun the other players are going to have as well.
You'll have to help me understand the usefulness of things like Manabarbs, Acidic Soil, etc. I'm rather new to that kind of card, and it seems like it would do just as much to me as anyone else. And since I'll have no creatures on the board, and perhaps only marginally useful defenses in Circle of Flame... it seems to me that it would just facilitate my own removal. What am I missing? You're probably right about Sizzle too, I'm just concerned that the board will be flooded with creatures or bigguns and I won't be able to effectively deal with them. Arc Blade is not very good, I just love the card. It'll be the first to go if it comes to that.
Circle of Flame, in hindsight, is not very good without Everlasting Torment. The two together make it much, much more effective, as well as make all my board-sweepers do good damage even to things they couldn't normally touch. Now Death Pits of Rath is a very interesting idea. I was considering splashing black just to make use of Terminate, so I really like that idea. The Glacial Chasm+Eon Hub combo is excellent too, although I'm thinking my playgroup will have no way to deal with it, and therefore make it gg as soon as I get the two out. I'll have to see how the deck performs without it, but I'd like some ways to bolster my defenses via thematic cards like Circle of Flame or Wall of Fire while also making them actually worthwhile. I agree that without getting several Circle of Flames out, it's pretty easily overcome. And then of course fliers.
As I'm new to cards like Manabarbs, Sulphuric Vortex and other ones that do just as much damage to me as to my opponent. Without any creatures on the field, I feel like it'll just facilitate my death that much quicker.
It depends on how you play the deck. For example, you can elect to play cards such Sun Droplet to negate the effects of your own burn or you can simply sandbag them for giant Glacial Chasm sequences. Rather casting burn spells on turns 2, 3, 4 etc. you can play a more defensive game, build up your land count and go for a quick win over the course of 2-3 turns (starting on oh, say turn 7) while hiding behind Glacial Chasm. Taking 2-4-6 is significantly less than what your Rifts, Soils, Barbs, etc. would do to you and so if you can dump your entire hand then it's easy to win the race. This requires a slightly different take on the deck, one that's more defensive and that sees more cards, but it's certainly an option. Otherwise, as I previously explained, sometimes you can go for big mana plays using Mana Geyser but that probably won't work in this particular instance.
The problem with what you're currently proposing is that it just plain doesn't make much sense. You can board clear, kill critters and dome players for a bit but there's virtually no world in which you can actually win the game. This is especially true if someone is on a dedicated lifegain deck and Punishing Fire isn't going to change that. Burn is an inherently weak multiplayer strategy in general and it's usually one that isn't very fun to play with or against. The deck itself kind of sucks to pilot because you tend to lack defense yet draw hate so you usually get beaten up and killed early on without having accomplished much. The alternative is allow you burn everyone out and win (which is completely nonsensical) so it's not as though people have much of a choice. I dunno, it's just not a very appropriate archetype in my mind. The absolute last thing that I would want to pit against newer players is burn because it teaches them all of the wrong lessons in my mind. It forces them to aggressively gang-up on you rather than play a relaxed, social game in which you have the option to play as aggressively or defensively as you choose.
Oooo, I do like manasinks! Planeswalker's fury is excellent, and Obsidian Fireheart is a creature that would totally fit with the theme of the deck. I am going to try and keep this as Modern as possible, since that seems to be the best way to keep balance with the other decks in my casual circle. Valakut is awesome, and totally affordable enough for at least a one-off in my deck. Thanks for the suggestion!
Yeah, I suppose that's true, as disappointing as it is to hear. I guess my personal problem is that I always like to play something unique and wild, which means I have a hard time putting together a regular old midrange deck. I was hoping this would be a fun opportunity to make a deck with a unique premise that's not very competitive - a stark contrast to my Eldrazi which are basically banned in our playgroup... It may fizzle out, and you're probably right, the amount of hate in the deck is probably going to be rough to play against. If it is, and it's terrible, I'll scrap it and make a Lorwyn flamekin tribal deck like I'd been planning on initially. I appreciate the input, in any case.
Yeah, I suppose that's true, as disappointing as it is to hear. I guess my personal problem is that I always like to play something unique and wild, which means I have a hard time putting together a regular old midrange deck. I was hoping this would be a fun opportunity to make a deck with a unique premise that's not very competitive - a stark contrast to my Eldrazi which are basically banned in our playgroup... It may fizzle out, and you're probably right, the amount of hate in the deck is probably going to be rough to play against. If it is, and it's terrible, I'll scrap it and make a Lorwyn flamekin tribal deck like I'd been planning on initially. I appreciate the input, in any case.
Midrange isn't the most exciting archetype but at least you always get to play Magic. Take the following Modern-legal deck:
You can build decks that don't have cards that cost more than 2 dollars that still have a ton of power, card draw, endgame bombs, defensive threats, scaling threats that beef up as time goes on, etc. It games are slow, that's fine. If they're fast, that's fine. If people have removal, that's fine. If they don't, that's fine. It kinda doesn't matter how many opponents you're facing nor what they're doing. Your deck is a just a pile of good cards supported by some powerful removal and card draw and even when you fall behind you can always draw into cards like Inferno Titan and Mob Rule to pull yourself out of the muck. It may not be a unique or novel idea but you know that you're getting a solid deck out of the deal and all of the cards will be useful even if you take it apart at a later point in time. Whereas generic burn is always going to be iffy if your deck has Mountains it probably wants Inferno Titan.
With respect to X burn spells, Comet Storm is worth considering. I've played Mana Geyser in the past to fuel giant X spells but I doubt that that card will work in 3 player games. It was trivial to generate enough mana in my 8 player ones, it always enabled me to empty my hand and/or fire off ginormous X spells, but that probably won't work for you.
I actually think that Comet Storm is overrated in general so don't feel too bad about forgetting about it. This is especially true in a format like Cube where you can't support it with Cloudposts and/or Mana Geyser.
Prid3, you're definitely right, I'll probably get more mileage out of a well-rounded midrange deck than I will out of something crazy and out there. That'll be next on my to-do list. I appreciate the input, as well as the excellent decklist.
Ordered some Fiery Tempers, I'll maybe include those as a 2 or 3-off in the deck, since they're sub-par without the madness bonus, but great if I can use them with Chandra.
Frankly, that's the reason I'm asking here, among a crowd of far more experienced players than myself. Here's the thing - I get a lot of enjoyment out of playing something unique that may not be entirely competitive. My first deck was Werewolves, and despite their jankiness, I love them. Part of the fun for me is finding something sub-par that has a lot of flavor and optimizing it as much as possible. I realize that by asking for not only thematic cards, but also something that fits this niche power-level that will be appropriate in my playgroup, I'm severely limiting the amount of choices that are available to me. But that's okay, and that's the reason I posted this in Casual as well as mentioning several times that I'm just doing this for fun. So far this thread has been a huge help in sorting out what kinds of cards are going to be key in this sort of deck.
Volley of Boulders and Firebolt were two that I hadn't even considered. I'll have to look into those. I've got a few Blasphemous Acts from the first iteration of my werewolf deck, I think I'll throw those in as well. Rolling Temblor would make a great substitute for Pyroclasm, maybe, since it's got the flashback. Nevinyrral's Disk was one I was aware of, but hadn't even considered, that's damn near perfect. I appreciate the input and card suggestions, that really opens up some more options.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So I've been trying to put together a good deck to play Multiplayer with for a while, and I've always wanted to try to put together a creatureless deck with Chandra Ablaze as the 'keystone' card, if you will. I thought multiplayer would be a good chance to break out something like this, where there's a little less focus on strong starts/protection from Aggro. Not to mention the people I play with don't play super competitively, so I imagine it would perform at least decently if it was put together well. And that's what I need help with! I'm okay with thematic creatures in small numbers, like Aetherflame Wall and Chandra's Phoenix, but that's about it. Additionally, I'd like to stay on a relatively tight budget, so no Chain Lightning or other cards that are upwards of 7-10 bucks a piece, aside from Chandra Ablaze.
Here's the decklist I'm working with currently
23 Mountain
The Deeps
2 Arc Blade
4 Flamebreak
4 Forked Bolt
4 Pyroclasm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Reforge the Soul
2 Everlasting Torment
4 Pyromancer's Gauntlet
1 Chandra Ablaze
Deterrents
4 Circle of Flame
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Browbeat
4 Braid of Fire
4 Pyrohemia
The biggest weaknesses I have this guy is that it just goes through cards too quickly, and I'm relying too much on Reforge the Soul to get me back in the game. Most of the cards are cheap and therefore easy to play one or two a turn, running me out of cards rather quickly. In playtests, getting a clutch Reforge the Soul means that I could usually dump my hand then redraw 7 for the miracle cost. However, if they aren't perfectly spaced, I'm left with 6 mana on the board and a Lightning Bolt in my hand playing in topdeck mode. Which is not so good. I was considering Browbeat as it pulls double duty for great burn damage or card draw. I'm not sure what to sub out for it though.
The other big problem is the lack of a finisher - I can wear people down left and right, but end game, when I've got a ton of free mana, I don't really have anything to do with it, especially with no cards in the hand. Maybe some Devil's Play? I already have one so it'd be pretty cheap for me to get a few more.
All advice is appreciated! Remember that I'm trying to keep the 'Pyromancy' theme and would prefer to stick to cheaper cards if possible!
EDIT: I would also like to add that I'd love more cards like Circle of Flame and to a lesser extent, Arc Blade, that I can put onto the field and get continuous return on. It helps with the lack of cards I will run into as well as doing double-duty of deterrent and a continuous return on my investment.
I would also consider splashing black for things like Terminate if it would enhance the deck and keep the theme.
You might want to also consider less single target damaging spells and move more towards things like Flame Rift, Sizzle and possibly even Breath of Malfegor if you think you're going to include black.
I prefer Slagstorm over Pyroclasm just for the situational ability to use it as burn. Both spells kill your only creature so the extra damage can only help clear the board.
Braid of Fire wasn't in the deck, just on the Maybeboard. I tossed it in there because I thought it might be worth considering, but it's good to know that it doesn't have synergy with my current loadout. I'll toss in some more multi-target damage spells, I'll get much more out of them than all the Lightning Bolts and whatnot. I'll keep Breath on the backburner in case I decide to splash black.
Good call on Slagstorm as well, I'll sub that out instead of Pyroclasm
I'd consider dropping Forked Bolt and/or Arc Blade before any Lightning Bolts when you switch stuff out.
-4 Pyroclasm +4 Slagstorm
-4 Forked Bolt +4 Browbeat
-4 Chandra's Phoenix +4 Sizzle
I figure I can dump the phoenix's for board wipe. They're not that good and this is more fun anyway, which is the whole point of the deck. That leaves my burn looking like this:
I think that'll be plenty to keep me going until I can get a gauntlet out and do some mass damage. If I decide to splash black I'll probably dump the Arc Blades (I know they're crap, they're just too cool of a card) for Terminate and drop Sizzle or Flamebreak for Breath.
EDIT: I'm also going to -2 Everlasting Torment because they're about 3 bucks a pop, as well as the fact that one of the players I play with frequently plays lifegain. I figure make the deck a little less malicious as well as open up space and money to throw in another Chandra Ablaze. And an Arc Blade. Because I like Arc Blade.
- I have never, ever, ever managed to get Chandra Ablaze to work. She comes down way too late for my meta, and never gets the opportunity to ultimate. By Turn 6, I was finding I was working too hard on staying alive to have the time and space to drop Chandra. And if I did, I've probably been slinging red things about for the best part of five turns, so your opponents know what's going to happen if they let her ultimate (hence, she gets blown off the table in short order). I would much rather be running Past in Flames - it's not telegraphed, it's cheaper to play, and it's repeatable thanks to its flashback (and it's cheaper to buy, too).
- Having all those high numbers of one-shot, one-target spells is a guarantee of running out of bullets in a multiplayer environment. In my experience, you'll end up throwing all those Forked Bolts, Lightning Bolts et al at the one guy who's taken a shine to beating you up, blow all his creatures away, and hopefully him too... and then the other guy who's been sitting quietly in the corner will start swinging, and you'll be out of ammo. Pyroclasm is really only good against token decks in my meta, and isn't something that gets played much... Titans, Consuming Aberration, and all the other gorillas running around in my meta will laugh Pyroclasm off. What you do want is repeatable blanket damage, like the aforementioned Blasphemous Act. Chain Reaction is good too.
If I had to build something similar myself, I suspect I would turn this into a Repercussion deck with Past in Flames and a couple of RX spells (like Banefire / RSZ / Rolling Thunder / Fanning the Flames) to take out those running decks that are creature-light.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Yeah, that's a good point. I should have 2-3 Blasphemous Acts already, so that'll be an easy fix.
Don't worry about it, I'm glad to hear the criticism! Let me preface by saying that meta is very, very casual and the decks aren't particularly crazy or competitive. The last multiplayer game I played was myself, a near-stock Kiora Duel Deck, and a life-gain deck built from scratch. The only reason I thought this could work is because of the relatively slow and plodding pace that most of our multiplayer games go. It's not uncommon for everyone to stock up and play defensively until someone plays something crazy and brings everything to a head. I've loved Chandra Ablaze from the moment I saw that card, and I've always been looking for a way to make her work. That's why I was so excited at the prospect of coming up with a deck for multiplayer games, as it was finally in a meta where the games were near-guaranteed to go on for a long time. Most of my choices are based on what I see my friends play, and I think it'll work at least reasonably well. I certainly don't expect to bring this deck into any other environs and expect it to shine. It's purely fun and thematic.
That being said, I think you're right about RX spells, as I need some finishers anyway. Also I don't know why I don't have Repercussion... If I'm playing creatureless, that seems like a no-brainer.
Haha! I thought that might be the case, given the decklist... my meta is much faster, and threats get removed quickly. If we go the whole hog and turn this into Repercussion / Past in Flames and then Blasphemous Act for the win on Turn 5 or something, your playgroup will probably ask you to dismantle it in fairly short order!
So, yeah, we do need to temper it a little bit. If it's a slow meta with not much removal then Chandra can probably work. How about stuff that you can discard with Chandra and then reuse anyway? Punishing Fire? Devil's Play? Faithless Looting? Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded might even be worth a shout.
If you do take this down the Repercussion route, I know they're expensive-ish, but Forbidden Orchard is a wicked land to run.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
My knee-jerk reaction is to drop Sizzle since Punishing Fire and Devil's Play both accomplish the same thing but have more flexibility. I should mention that our MP games are usually three players, the most we might see is four, so in retrospect Sizzle and Breath of Malfegor are good but might not be as good as something else.
I think Punishing Fire should be alright without Grove because of our life-gain player, but perhaps I'll swap in Devil's Play when she's playing a different deck or not at all. I do agree with you though, Everlasting Torment is definitely a strong choice, and if this deck falls on it's face I'll probably add it in later.
I don't fully understand why you're hesitating on cards such as Sizzle. You said that your games comprise of 3-4 players. Breath of Malfegor deals 10-15 damage in those scenarios. Bolt deals 3-3. If you're playing a deck that wins by counting down from 60 I don't understand how you can elect to forgo fielding burn spells such as Flame Rift, Sizzle, Flamebreak, Acidic Soil, Manabarbs, etc. in favor of marginal playables such as Lightning Bolt and Arc Blade. You'll probably deck yourself before those kinds of spells will deal the necessary damage to to burn 3 players out lol.
I think that you overestimate Circle of Flame. Your list has a handful of small creatures (the Phoenixes) and nothing else. Unless your opponents are playing nothing but X/1s (unlikely) the card will do actual nothing in games/scenarios where you don't have a Phoenix out and even when you do every X/4 or greater will still be able to tangle with you. In order to make these kinds of cards effective you either need to play a lot of them (Caltrops, Powerstone Minefield, Lightmine Field), which is a flimsy + weak plan at best, or you need to hope to combo them with a card like Death Pits of Rath. Still, if you're just going to run a multi-card defense combo Glacial Chasm + Eon Hub is probably the way to go. I've employed that tactic in the past to moderate success mostly because it works extremely well with your burn gameplan. Faithless Looting, Tormenting Voice, Reforge the Soul, etc. can help you assemble it and/or pitch excess combo pieces so it's more consistent than it probably seems.
With respect to X burn spells, Comet Storm is worth considering. I've played Mana Geyser in the past to fuel giant X spells but I doubt that that card will work in 3 player games. It was trivial to generate enough mana in my 8 player ones, it always enabled me to empty my hand and/or fire off ginormous X spells, but that probably won't work for you.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Obsidian Fireheart for example. Dragon Roost and Planeswalker's Fury are singletons you could try.
And pimp up your mana base! Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle if you got the budget. Kher Keep for chump blockers. And Hammerheim. Oh, yeah, you need that one. Just for style.
3 Arc Blade
4 Browbeat
4 Flamebreak
4 Sizzle
4 Slagstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Chandra Ablaze
4 Pyromancer's Gauntlet
4 Circle of Flame
Manabase
23 Mountain
Maybeboard
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Devil's Play
2 Everlasting Torment
4 Forked Bolt
4 Punishing Fire
4 Pyroclasm
Prid3, thank you for the suggestion, I'll keep Sulphuric Vortex in mind as well. But I'd like to clarify that it's not that I'm worried about lifegain, I'm worried it'll be very disappointing for our newest player, who runs a lifegain deck. The other day Erebos, God of the Dead got played and since she's still working on a well-rounded deck, she was unable to remove it and it completely knee-capped her game. I'm just trying to be a conscious of how much fun the other players are going to have as well.
You'll have to help me understand the usefulness of things like Manabarbs, Acidic Soil, etc. I'm rather new to that kind of card, and it seems like it would do just as much to me as anyone else. And since I'll have no creatures on the board, and perhaps only marginally useful defenses in Circle of Flame... it seems to me that it would just facilitate my own removal. What am I missing? You're probably right about Sizzle too, I'm just concerned that the board will be flooded with creatures or bigguns and I won't be able to effectively deal with them. Arc Blade is not very good, I just love the card. It'll be the first to go if it comes to that.
Circle of Flame, in hindsight, is not very good without Everlasting Torment. The two together make it much, much more effective, as well as make all my board-sweepers do good damage even to things they couldn't normally touch. Now Death Pits of Rath is a very interesting idea. I was considering splashing black just to make use of Terminate, so I really like that idea. The Glacial Chasm+Eon Hub combo is excellent too, although I'm thinking my playgroup will have no way to deal with it, and therefore make it gg as soon as I get the two out. I'll have to see how the deck performs without it, but I'd like some ways to bolster my defenses via thematic cards like Circle of Flame or Wall of Fire while also making them actually worthwhile. I agree that without getting several Circle of Flames out, it's pretty easily overcome. And then of course fliers.
I will certainly consider Comet Storm. Maybe Devil's Play+Comet Storm as finishers?
It depends on how you play the deck. For example, you can elect to play cards such Sun Droplet to negate the effects of your own burn or you can simply sandbag them for giant Glacial Chasm sequences. Rather casting burn spells on turns 2, 3, 4 etc. you can play a more defensive game, build up your land count and go for a quick win over the course of 2-3 turns (starting on oh, say turn 7) while hiding behind Glacial Chasm. Taking 2-4-6 is significantly less than what your Rifts, Soils, Barbs, etc. would do to you and so if you can dump your entire hand then it's easy to win the race. This requires a slightly different take on the deck, one that's more defensive and that sees more cards, but it's certainly an option. Otherwise, as I previously explained, sometimes you can go for big mana plays using Mana Geyser but that probably won't work in this particular instance.
The problem with what you're currently proposing is that it just plain doesn't make much sense. You can board clear, kill critters and dome players for a bit but there's virtually no world in which you can actually win the game. This is especially true if someone is on a dedicated lifegain deck and Punishing Fire isn't going to change that. Burn is an inherently weak multiplayer strategy in general and it's usually one that isn't very fun to play with or against. The deck itself kind of sucks to pilot because you tend to lack defense yet draw hate so you usually get beaten up and killed early on without having accomplished much. The alternative is allow you burn everyone out and win (which is completely nonsensical) so it's not as though people have much of a choice. I dunno, it's just not a very appropriate archetype in my mind. The absolute last thing that I would want to pit against newer players is burn because it teaches them all of the wrong lessons in my mind. It forces them to aggressively gang-up on you rather than play a relaxed, social game in which you have the option to play as aggressively or defensively as you choose.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Oooo, I do like manasinks! Planeswalker's fury is excellent, and Obsidian Fireheart is a creature that would totally fit with the theme of the deck. I am going to try and keep this as Modern as possible, since that seems to be the best way to keep balance with the other decks in my casual circle. Valakut is awesome, and totally affordable enough for at least a one-off in my deck. Thanks for the suggestion!
Yeah, I suppose that's true, as disappointing as it is to hear. I guess my personal problem is that I always like to play something unique and wild, which means I have a hard time putting together a regular old midrange deck. I was hoping this would be a fun opportunity to make a deck with a unique premise that's not very competitive - a stark contrast to my Eldrazi which are basically banned in our playgroup... It may fizzle out, and you're probably right, the amount of hate in the deck is probably going to be rough to play against. If it is, and it's terrible, I'll scrap it and make a Lorwyn flamekin tribal deck like I'd been planning on initially. I appreciate the input, in any case.
Midrange isn't the most exciting archetype but at least you always get to play Magic. Take the following Modern-legal deck:
22x Mountain
2x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1x Urza's Factory
Creatures (23)
2x Ashling the Pilgrim
4x Everflame Eidolon
4x Boros Reckoner
3x Taurean Mauler
2x Rakka Mar
2x Obsidian Fireheart
2x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Zealous Conscripts
3x Inferno Titan
2x Lightning Bolt
4x Mizzium Mortars
4x Outpost Siege
2x Mob Rule
You can build decks that don't have cards that cost more than 2 dollars that still have a ton of power, card draw, endgame bombs, defensive threats, scaling threats that beef up as time goes on, etc. It games are slow, that's fine. If they're fast, that's fine. If people have removal, that's fine. If they don't, that's fine. It kinda doesn't matter how many opponents you're facing nor what they're doing. Your deck is a just a pile of good cards supported by some powerful removal and card draw and even when you fall behind you can always draw into cards like Inferno Titan and Mob Rule to pull yourself out of the muck. It may not be a unique or novel idea but you know that you're getting a solid deck out of the deal and all of the cards will be useful even if you take it apart at a later point in time. Whereas generic burn is always going to be iffy if your deck has Mountains it probably wants Inferno Titan.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Gah, how did I miss Comet Storm out of my initial RX spell list?
Incredible card is incredible. Gets drafted ahead of RSZ, Rolling Thunder and Fanning the Flames in my cube.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
I actually think that Comet Storm is overrated in general so don't feel too bad about forgetting about it. This is especially true in a format like Cube where you can't support it with Cloudposts and/or Mana Geyser.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Ordered some Fiery Tempers, I'll maybe include those as a 2 or 3-off in the deck, since they're sub-par without the madness bonus, but great if I can use them with Chandra.
Frankly, that's the reason I'm asking here, among a crowd of far more experienced players than myself. Here's the thing - I get a lot of enjoyment out of playing something unique that may not be entirely competitive. My first deck was Werewolves, and despite their jankiness, I love them. Part of the fun for me is finding something sub-par that has a lot of flavor and optimizing it as much as possible. I realize that by asking for not only thematic cards, but also something that fits this niche power-level that will be appropriate in my playgroup, I'm severely limiting the amount of choices that are available to me. But that's okay, and that's the reason I posted this in Casual as well as mentioning several times that I'm just doing this for fun. So far this thread has been a huge help in sorting out what kinds of cards are going to be key in this sort of deck.
Volley of Boulders and Firebolt were two that I hadn't even considered. I'll have to look into those. I've got a few Blasphemous Acts from the first iteration of my werewolf deck, I think I'll throw those in as well. Rolling Temblor would make a great substitute for Pyroclasm, maybe, since it's got the flashback. Nevinyrral's Disk was one I was aware of, but hadn't even considered, that's damn near perfect. I appreciate the input and card suggestions, that really opens up some more options.