The end game is either to make some big doofs or take a bunch of extra turns with Sage of Hours. Problem is my doofs are never big enough, and the combos with Sage are pretty inconsistent. I wanted to make it more around Sage of Hours, but I don't feel like putting in Sandsteppe Mastodon/Roaring Primadox, as they don't do much with the rest of the deck. The card I like the most in here is Inspiring Call, but in practice just drawing a bunch of ground dudes is disappointing.
... is... is that the dwarf from Golden Axe in your avvie? I just clicked. Damn, I feel old.
As an initial kicking of the tyres, guys I would expect to see in a Simic +1/+1 counter deck, or at least to be considered...
... Prime Speaker Zegana, Master Biomancer, Fertilid, Bramblewood Paragon, Gilder Bairn, Triskelion, Tetravus. Inspiring Call is an... er... interesting card here. I worry that you'll burn it to draw cards only to have someone blow your dudes off the board afterwards, or use it to save your creatures and hold off on the card draw when you really need it. I can see it's going to be pretty versatile here, but in no way would I be relying upon it as the sole form of card draw. Sage of Fables might be worth thinking about too.
Life is too short to run Aquastrand Spider or Simic Initiate. I take it you're concerned about fliers?
Zegana obviously has a lot of power, but card draw is something this deck has plenty of, and I'm not running any blink shenanigans. Master Biomancer I definitely need to try, although the 4-drop slot is a little clogged already. I was also trying Fathom Mage. Triskelion just seems like a lot of mana to invest in something that doesn't really do a whole lot... unless I'm doubling the counters?
Inspiring Call is an... er... interesting card here. I worry that you'll burn it to draw cards only to have someone blow your dudes off the board afterwards, or use it to save your creatures and hold off on the card draw when you really need it. I can see it's going to be pretty versatile here, but in no way would I be relying upon it as the sole form of card draw. Sage of Fables might be worth thinking about too.
Well I do have Tezzeret's Gambit, which is pretty sweet because it pumps up all my creatures. Inspiring Call is something I see myself saving until eot unless I topdeck it, since it's better value to go doofs -> call as opposed to call -> doofs. The deck isn't combo-y enough to do anything special after drawing a bunch of cards anyway.
So... yeah, and this may be the main problem with the deck: those two creatures are kind of important. I know they're bad, but I want to dump a bunch of creatures in play and refill with Inspiring Call, and those are the cheapest ones for the job. They work pretty well with Hardened Scales and Cytoplast Root-Kin, too.
I had Servant of the Scale in there, but without any sac effects it did nothing.
Zegana obviously has a lot of power, but card draw is something this deck has plenty of, and I'm not running any blink shenanigans. Master Biomancer I definitely need to try, although the 4-drop slot is a little clogged already. I was also trying Fathom Mage. Triskelion just seems like a lot of mana to invest in something that doesn't really do a whole lot... unless I'm doubling the counters?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I only run one or two Trikes in my Golgari version of this deck (it runs Corpsejack Menace, rather than going for the infinite with Sage of Hours). Certainly, I wouldn't consider anything more than two copies of Trike, Tetravus or Zegana. And definitely not all three in this deck (there's not enough room). The guys I would probably put at the top of that list are Biomancer and Bramblewood Paragon (for reasons I get to below).
Inspiring Call is an... er... interesting card here. I worry that you'll burn it to draw cards only to have someone blow your dudes off the board afterwards, or use it to save your creatures and hold off on the card draw when you really need it. I can see it's going to be pretty versatile here, but in no way would I be relying upon it as the sole form of card draw. Sage of Fables might be worth thinking about too.
Well I do have Tezzeret's Gambit, which is pretty sweet because it pumps up all my creatures. Inspiring Call is something I see myself saving until eot unless I topdeck it, since it's better value to go doofs over call as opposed to call over doofs. The deck isn't combo-y enough to do anything special after drawing a bunch of cards anyway.
Yeah, true... I don't mind it as a card, TBH. Just worried that you'll use it for one of its two purposes, wishing that you'd saved it for the other one. Tezzeret's Gambit is the bomb, though.
So... yeah, and this may be the main problem with the deck: those two creatures are kind of important. I know they're bad, but I want to dump a bunch of creatures in play and refill with Inspiring Call, and those are the cheapest ones for the job. They work pretty well with Hardened Scales and Cytoplast Root-Kin, too.
I had Servant of the Scale in there, but without any sac effects it did nothing.
If you use some of the green and blue removal spells, and then make sure your guys have trample, this shouldn't be an issue.
I would run Beast Within, Rapid Hybridization or Pongify, next to a bunch of Bramblewood Paragons (so that I am always trampling over what I've just swapped the flier for).
Zegana obviously has a lot of power, but card draw is something this deck has plenty of, and I'm not running any blink shenanigans. Master Biomancer I definitely need to try, although the 4-drop slot is a little clogged already. I was also trying Fathom Mage. Triskelion just seems like a lot of mana to invest in something that doesn't really do a whole lot... unless I'm doubling the counters?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I only run one or two Trikes in my Golgari version of this deck (it runs Corpsejack Menace, rather than going for the infinite with Sage of Hours). Certainly, I wouldn't consider anything more than two copies of Trike, Tetravus or Zegana. And definitely not all three in this deck (there's not enough room). The guys I would probably put at the top of that list are Biomancer and Bramblewood Paragon (for reasons I get to below).
Inspiring Call is an... er... interesting card here. I worry that you'll burn it to draw cards only to have someone blow your dudes off the board afterwards, or use it to save your creatures and hold off on the card draw when you really need it. I can see it's going to be pretty versatile here, but in no way would I be relying upon it as the sole form of card draw. Sage of Fables might be worth thinking about too.
Well I do have Tezzeret's Gambit, which is pretty sweet because it pumps up all my creatures. Inspiring Call is something I see myself saving until eot unless I topdeck it, since it's better value to go doofs over call as opposed to call over doofs. The deck isn't combo-y enough to do anything special after drawing a bunch of cards anyway.
Yeah, true... I don't mind it as a card, TBH. Just worried that you'll use it for one of its two purposes, wishing that you'd saved it for the other one. Tezzeret's Gambit is the bomb, though.
So... yeah, and this may be the main problem with the deck: those two creatures are kind of important. I know they're bad, but I want to dump a bunch of creatures in play and refill with Inspiring Call, and those are the cheapest ones for the job. They work pretty well with Hardened Scales and Cytoplast Root-Kin, too.
I had Servant of the Scale in there, but without any sac effects it did nothing.
If you use some of the green and blue removal spells, and then make sure your guys have trample, this shouldn't be an issue.
I would run Beast Within, Rapid Hybridization or Pongify, next to a bunch of Bramblewood Paragons (so that I am always trampling over what I've just swapped the flier for).
Thanks for the suggestions. I've decided to go with Black for Corpsejack Menace instead of with Blue--making Sage of Hours work without a dedicated combo deck is way too much effort. Here's what I've got now:
I don't know the numbers for sure yet, but this version makes all the cheap donks a lot better. I'm thinking Tuskguard Captain over Bramblewood Paragon because the Captain can pump itself and thus get extra counters from Cytoplast Root-Kin and Tezzeret's Gambit. Buuut this may not be necessary due to all the graft creatures that are already there.
Kalonian hydra would be good in this deck. Of course once Kalonian Hydra is involved you might as well make the deck entirely dedicated to getting him out as soon as possible and just say screw it to the other +1/+1 counter guys. If the opponent doesn't have a solution to it in like 2 turns you just win the game with kalonian hydra alone, even if he is your only creature in play.
I hate how he just wins games for you alone. The other things in play don't even matter.
I was the guy playing the relentless rats deck back during mirrodin and kamigawa blocks. Yes, cranial extraction was used on me. No, I didn't win much. Yes, I do have a relentless rats edh deck. No, it doesn't win much either...
I hate how he just wins games for you alone. The other things in play don't even matter.
It's a protection-less 5 drop that has to attack, that usually requires a board and that doesn't kill multiplayer players at a time. Of all the cards to hate this one is fairly low on my own list. I'm not saying that it can't win games, the card is obviously extremely powerful, it's just no different from any other "Vigor-esque" threat that does powerful things but dies to removal.
I hate how he just wins games for you alone. The other things in play don't even matter.
It's a protection-less 5 drop that has to attack, that usually requires a board and that doesn't kill multiplayer players at a time. Of all the cards to hate this one is fairly low on my own list. I'm not saying that it can't win games, the card is obviously extremely powerful, it's just no different from any other "Vigor-esque" threat that does powerful things but dies to removal.
I love synergy between cards. I love how he pumps your other creatures. Its just that since he himself has to attack for his ability to work, and since when he attacks he immediately becomes a 8/8 trample and then a 16/16 trample I just feel that any deck that runs him would be better off focusing on playing him fast or keeping him alive rather then pairing him with other +1/+1 counter creatures.
If the board is in a state where he can attack at all then you just don't need the other +1/+1 creature you have, and in that case what is the point of the other +1/+1 creatures? I would much rather he be a worse card. Like "when Kalonian hydra attacks double the number of +1/+1 counters on other creatures you control" I don't like these bomb cards.
I was the guy playing the relentless rats deck back during mirrodin and kamigawa blocks. Yes, cranial extraction was used on me. No, I didn't win much. Yes, I do have a relentless rats edh deck. No, it doesn't win much either...
I hate how he just wins games for you alone. The other things in play don't even matter.
It's a protection-less 5 drop that has to attack, that usually requires a board and that doesn't kill multiplayer players at a time. Of all the cards to hate this one is fairly low on my own list. I'm not saying that it can't win games, the card is obviously extremely powerful, it's just no different from any other "Vigor-esque" threat that does powerful things but dies to removal.
At first I discounted the hydra because it's 'just another big creature,' but since this deck is just a bunch of creatures anyway, we might as well use the best ones.
The other reason I discounted it was that its price always seemed steep for a card that wasn't even good in Standard, but maybe I'll throw in a couple proxied copies and see.
The idea for my deck is to shuffle around counters while getting the benefit from Hardened Scales.
If you have the ability to add counters to creatures individually, you should play Kitchen Finks. The +1/+1 counters and the -1/-1 counters cancel each other out.
2 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Cytoplast Root-Kin
4 Forgotten Ancient
4 Gyre Sage
2 Sage of Hours
4 Simic Initiate
4 Hardened Scales
4 Inspiring Call
4 Tezzeret's Gambit
3 Breeding Pool
7 Forest
3 Hinterland Harbor
1 Island
4 Llanowar Reborn
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH
As an initial kicking of the tyres, guys I would expect to see in a Simic +1/+1 counter deck, or at least to be considered...
... Prime Speaker Zegana, Master Biomancer, Fertilid, Bramblewood Paragon, Gilder Bairn, Triskelion, Tetravus.
Inspiring Call is an... er... interesting card here. I worry that you'll burn it to draw cards only to have someone blow your dudes off the board afterwards, or use it to save your creatures and hold off on the card draw when you really need it. I can see it's going to be pretty versatile here, but in no way would I be relying upon it as the sole form of card draw. Sage of Fables might be worth thinking about too.
Life is too short to run Aquastrand Spider or Simic Initiate. I take it you're concerned about fliers?
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Hahaha nope, it's a rifleman from Warcraft 3. 12 years old instead of 26, now how old do you feel?
Zegana obviously has a lot of power, but card draw is something this deck has plenty of, and I'm not running any blink shenanigans. Master Biomancer I definitely need to try, although the 4-drop slot is a little clogged already. I was also trying Fathom Mage. Triskelion just seems like a lot of mana to invest in something that doesn't really do a whole lot... unless I'm doubling the counters?
Well I do have Tezzeret's Gambit, which is pretty sweet because it pumps up all my creatures. Inspiring Call is something I see myself saving until eot unless I topdeck it, since it's better value to go doofs -> call as opposed to call -> doofs. The deck isn't combo-y enough to do anything special after drawing a bunch of cards anyway.
So... yeah, and this may be the main problem with the deck: those two creatures are kind of important. I know they're bad, but I want to dump a bunch of creatures in play and refill with Inspiring Call, and those are the cheapest ones for the job. They work pretty well with Hardened Scales and Cytoplast Root-Kin, too.
I had Servant of the Scale in there, but without any sac effects it did nothing.
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH
Neurok Transmuter, a bunch of modular creatures and a sac-outlet?
(-:
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Hahahaa!! I'm sure it's just a cynical, cheap ripoff of the original... get off my lawn, Warcraft 3!
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I only run one or two Trikes in my Golgari version of this deck (it runs Corpsejack Menace, rather than going for the infinite with Sage of Hours). Certainly, I wouldn't consider anything more than two copies of Trike, Tetravus or Zegana. And definitely not all three in this deck (there's not enough room). The guys I would probably put at the top of that list are Biomancer and Bramblewood Paragon (for reasons I get to below).
Yeah, true... I don't mind it as a card, TBH. Just worried that you'll use it for one of its two purposes, wishing that you'd saved it for the other one.
Tezzeret's Gambit is the bomb, though.
If you use some of the green and blue removal spells, and then make sure your guys have trample, this shouldn't be an issue.
I would run Beast Within, Rapid Hybridization or Pongify, next to a bunch of Bramblewood Paragons (so that I am always trampling over what I've just swapped the flier for).
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I did think of that, but it made my head hurt so I stopped.
Thanks for the suggestions. I've decided to go with Black for Corpsejack Menace instead of with Blue--making Sage of Hours work without a dedicated combo deck is way too much effort. Here's what I've got now:
2 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Hardened Scales
4 Simic Initiate
4 Cytoplast Root-Kin
4 Gyre Sage
4 Wooded Foothills
7 Forest
1 Aquastrand Spider
4 Tezzeret's Gambit
4 Llanowar Reborn
2 Servant of the Scale
3 Corpsejack Menace
2 Tuskguard Captain
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Woodland Cemetery
1 Swamp
I don't know the numbers for sure yet, but this version makes all the cheap donks a lot better. I'm thinking Tuskguard Captain over Bramblewood Paragon because the Captain can pump itself and thus get extra counters from Cytoplast Root-Kin and Tezzeret's Gambit. Buuut this may not be necessary due to all the graft creatures that are already there.
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH
I hate how he just wins games for you alone. The other things in play don't even matter.
It's a protection-less 5 drop that has to attack, that usually requires a board and that doesn't kill multiplayer players at a time. Of all the cards to hate this one is fairly low on my own list. I'm not saying that it can't win games, the card is obviously extremely powerful, it's just no different from any other "Vigor-esque" threat that does powerful things but dies to removal.
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I love synergy between cards. I love how he pumps your other creatures. Its just that since he himself has to attack for his ability to work, and since when he attacks he immediately becomes a 8/8 trample and then a 16/16 trample I just feel that any deck that runs him would be better off focusing on playing him fast or keeping him alive rather then pairing him with other +1/+1 counter creatures.
If the board is in a state where he can attack at all then you just don't need the other +1/+1 creature you have, and in that case what is the point of the other +1/+1 creatures? I would much rather he be a worse card. Like "when Kalonian hydra attacks double the number of +1/+1 counters on other creatures you control" I don't like these bomb cards.
At first I discounted the hydra because it's 'just another big creature,' but since this deck is just a bunch of creatures anyway, we might as well use the best ones.
The other reason I discounted it was that its price always seemed steep for a card that wasn't even good in Standard, but maybe I'll throw in a couple proxied copies and see.
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH
The idea for my deck is to shuffle around counters while getting the benefit from Hardened Scales.
If you have the ability to add counters to creatures individually, you should play Kitchen Finks. The +1/+1 counters and the -1/-1 counters cancel each other out.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Ob Nixilis, Unshackled + Fertilid / Collective Voyage
Since you're in the BUG colors, I thought you might benefit from this gem as well