MTG Salvation

This is what it looks like now... I still feel it needs fine tuning... I am thinking I need to fit 4 more 2 drops (Ideally, probably 4x Bloodghast, but Wight of Precinct Six could work too).



I know that Underworld Connections is worse than Phyrexian Arena... it's more budgety though. My money only goes so many places all at once. Eventually, I will make the switch... probably one by one.

Let me know what you think!

Gatekeeper of Malakir seems to be a better match than Fleshbag Marauder and/or Gatekeeper.

Edit: You also probably want to up the Exsanguinates because theyr'e that awesome.

Quote from Tev »

Gatekeeper of Malakir seems to be a better match than Fleshbag Marauder and/or Gatekeeper.

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Why's that? Devotion only?

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Fleshbag Marauder is actually my "board wipe" and is vital to surviving long enough to chain merchants and exsanguinates.

Trust me, I know how disgusting exsanguinates is... I have to have a really great reason not to auto-include a play set in any deck that even splashes black... But in this deck, with the play set of merchant, 3 exsanguinates really is enough.

Yeah, just for Devotion.

To me it looks like you're really short on creatures which is why I suggested something that sticks around rather than something that 'takes you with me'.

4 Erebos necessary? I think you can cut a copy. It's not like he's just an Enchantment you can sit on and slap down another.

Or basically the plan is you expect all your guys to die and drain out your opponent in the mean time?

Not sure why I would want less than a playset of Erebos. I understand that he is Legendary, but this dude is my 4 drop creature, and if I am not playing either Erebos or Grave Pact on turn 4, I am not a happy mage.

It isn't that I am expecting for all of my guys to die, but I AM expecting the inevitable board wipe/other removal... and I don't want to care about them. Erebos hoses lifegain. Period. And I ALWAYS face life gain of some sort or another. If I can play a 5/7 indestructible creature that BY HIMSELF lets me ignore mirror drain, Ajani's Pridemate, Serra Ascendant, Test of Endurance, Blood Baron of Vizkopa, Thragtusk shinanigans, etc... I don't feel that 4 is too many. Oh, and he is extra draw as well, just in case. Never bad.

I have to say... It must be that, as I usually play control decks (with little to no creatures), my perception is skewed... but 23 creatures is running "really short on creatures"? Play testing certainly hasn't indicated that... Anyway, using the marauder lock has not made me sad yet, and it certainly hasn't caused my drains to hit like wet noodles or anything...

Coffers is horrendous in your proposed list. It's significantly worse than any other land (including Basic Swamp) IMO. I also think that 23 lands is greedy given that you basically want to make land drops for the first 6 or so turns of the game. I tend to play closer to 26 when possible. Don't forget that Nykthos is Legendary so cheating on lands is probably a very bad idea. It's a good ritual, sure, but I mean you still need actual lands to cast spells to get the stage where rituals will help you.

I actively dislike Abyssal Gatekeeper in Nythos Devotion shells. It's not BB, it doesn't have 2 power to trigger your turn 1 Ascensions and it makes it very awkward to play future creatures. I personally play Nantuko Shade in that slot more often than not. It's not the best card in the world or anything but it scales well and it's BB. It has good synergy with Vampire Hexmage in that sense. After all, Hexmage is good on turn 2 to trigger Ascension but I mean I don't really want to draw it on turn 5. All it does is threaten to eat Walkers that that point. Nantuko Shade isn't great on turn 2, it's just a Vanilla 2/1, but I actually want to see it on turn 8. I've tested Gatekeeper of Malakir and was better than I thought that it'd be but it never blew me away (even with recursion). This deck wants to curve out on turns 1-5 whenever possible and that sometimes means casting a Grizzly Bears. It's usually not worth Time Walking yourself just to kill a marginal threat. That's why I started using Nantuko Shade. It's a dumb 2 power beater on turn 2 but I can actually do something with it beyond that. One thing that becomes apparent when playing the deck is that your creatures all kind of suck and that's not a trivial weakness to overlook. Drain is good and all but sometimes people play things like Inferno Titan or whatever and you need some actual meat to deal with it.

Wight of Precinct Six on 2 into Fleshbag Marauder on 3 is a very powerful curve regardless of the shell. I also tend to play Nighthowler in those lists because the card can do a lot of work. If nothing else I'd want to have those cards around to try different variations of the deck. Sometimes I cut the Bloodchief Ascensions and Vampire Hexmages (I don't think that Hexmage is very good if you don't have Ascension in your list) in favor of these "Mortivores" and saccers which will, on occasion, include 1-2 copies of Slum Reaper to act as Fleshbag Marauder numbers 5 and 6. All of these cards are dirt cheap, most of them are uncommons, so it doesn't really cost you anything to switch things up.

I typically always play 4 draw engines, even if they're ultra budget ones such as Dark Prophecy and I like to have the 1x Whip of Erebos for lifegain. This is especially true for versions of the deck that use Nighthowler and whatnot. I also keep 4x Thrull Parasite handy as an alternative to Bloodchief Ascension which synergizes well with Grave Pact, Dark Prophecy, Oversold Cemetery, etc. It's not amazing or anything but it gets the job gone. The fact that it's a dirt cheap uncommon helps. It's also fun to play versions of the deck with eight 1 drops and treat it like Standard Mono-Blue Devotion. You just flood the field, stick a draw engine and start chaining Gray Merchants for the win.

Mono-Black devotion, to me, isn't about about finding the perfect list. I think that it's a shame to never mix things up with different threats, different answers and alternative defensive options. Stinkweed Imp, No Mercy, Dictate of Erebos, Demigod of Revenge, Grave Titan, Sepulchral Primordial, there's so many powerful options at your disposal. Even the basic curve of 1-4 can vary wildly and still be effective. As long as you have 4 draw engines and 4 Gray Merchants everything else is up in the air as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah... I know what you mean about the Coffers. Like I said... I tend to be a control player at heart, so it's hard to let things go sometimes!

I was already thinking of switching out the Gatekeepers for Wights. Doing that, I would end up taking Oversold Cemetery out (since Unholy Grotto would recur all my zombies anyway) to fit in a 4th connections.

As for the lands... I know. 23 is way greedy. I am thinking I may just take out Phyrexian Reclamation as well to throw in another swamp. Getting to 26 lands without cutting something good may be a problem. The only thing I could think of is cutting a couple Erebos or ascensions... and I am not sure how well that would work out. Both of those cards do a lot of work in this deck... Bloodchief Ascension is just disgusting after all.

I think Stinkweed Imp and his other dredge buddies are hilarious with Syphon Mind... but I would probably ditch the black devotion all together and go with B/G graveyard. Anyway...

So here is my updated version...



I would still love to make room for more land, a fourth Wight of Precinct Six, and... sigh... my Tendrils of Corruption are sitting here calling me... Too many good cards, so little space.

If you are adding Tendrils I would make room for Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

I would drop 1 Unholy Grotto and 1 Erebos, God of the Dead

Add another Grave Pact and exsanguinate

You want to draw GP each game and 2 of them won't do that consistently. Also, Exsanguinates in multiples just wins games.

So, after playtesting (Goldfishing a lot and playing with my group), my current version is quite strong. I ended up going down to 13 swamps and using a playset of Nykthos.

I don't think there is a "correct" balance between number of copies of Erebos, God of the Dead and Grave Pact... but between the six of them I almost never hurt for a turn four drop. There tends to be at LEAST one deck that uses lifegain as an integral part of their strategy in my playgroup at any given time, and several others who simply use it to help them make it to the late game, which is why I went with 4x Erebos.

Thus far, 24x lands has worked well for me... even with 4x Nikthos. Mana screw just oh so rarely happens... mana flooding is really the only "issue" this deck has had thus far... and honestly that isn't much of an issue.

Erebos vs Pact seems simple enough to me. Erebos is good against removal-light (since he turns on and stays on) and mass removal-heavy (draw engines are great vs Control) metas. Grave Pact is very good against spot removal-heavy metas (spot removal starts look terrible when it's a 1 for 2). Erebos is also bad vs creature-based decks in general whereas Pact crushes them. Erebos is arguably decent against creature decks if you can turn him and keep him on but in general he's not great if you're worried about early pressure. Basically it boils down your personal meta and what people generally like to play. Both cards are fairly insane though and I could easily see someone running 4 of each.

I would still play 26 lands in the deck, especially if you have Exsanguinate. The only real way to lose games is to miss land drops I've found.

Quote from Prid3 »

I would still play 26 lands in the deck, especially if you have Exsanguinate. The only real way to lose games is to miss land drops I've found.

So what would you take out for 2x Swamps? 3 drops are the heaviest, so maybe 1 Fleshbag and 1 Nighthawk?

Were it me I'd cut a Hexmage and a Nighthawk but that's because I really don't think that Hexmage is a very good card if it's not being cast on turn 2. Like I said I usually play Nantuko Shade and Wight of Precinct Six because they're warm bodies on turn 2 who are legitimately good draws later on. I recognize that Shade is just a vanilla 2/1 for 2 early on but I mean it's multiplayer. As long as you have SOMETHING people can't really attack you the vast majority of the time.

Quote from iemsparticus »

Quote from Prid3 »

I would still play 26 lands in the deck, especially if you have Exsanguinate. The only real way to lose games is to miss land drops I've found.

So what would you take out for 2x Swamps? 3 drops are the heaviest, so maybe 1 Fleshbag and 1 Nighthawk?

Quote from Prid3 »

Were it me I'd cut a Hexmage and a Nighthawk but that's because I really don't think that Hexmage is a very good card if it's not being cast on turn 2. Like I said I usually play Nantuko Shade and Wight of Precinct Six because they're warm bodies on turn 2 who are legitimately good draws later on. I recognize that Shade is just a vanilla 2/1 for 2 early on but I mean it's multiplayer. As long as you have SOMETHING people can't really attack you the vast majority of the time.

Makes sense. The ONLY reason I play Hexmage is that, in my play group, Plainswalkers are extremely prevalent, for whatever reason. If they start to go away, better believe Shades will go in instead.

Yeah but... don't they just die? I've never understood 'Walkers in MP. You'd have to crazy to allow them to live so, all things being equal, players attack them over life total (at least in my circles). Since it's virtually impossible to ever have a truly stable board in MP 'Walkers just kind of do-nothing and die from what I've experienced.

But all things aren't equal. I am the player getting ganged up on because if they don't, I just win. This being the case, other people's walkers sneak by unless I kill them, usually. Which is where Hexmage comes in.

It's not really a replacement to the Hexmage because Sorceries can't block, but Aether Snap can turn off planeswalkers, proliferate, +1 counters, and token strategies.

If you don't see a lot of sweepers or spot removal, Ophiomancer can occasionally be a combat deterrent. It's not No Mercy, but it does come down one turn earlier.

Pass on Ophiomancer, but thanks. I don't really need much more deterrent than Grave Pact, tbh, with my Fleshbag lock. Hexmage is at least 100% better in this list than Aethersnap is to combat Walkers... She gives max devotion and hits for 2 (for Ascension)... And I REALLY don't need ANY more than 3 Walker haters. Aethersnap would be a dead draw 99.9% of the time.

I suggested AS in response to the earlier comment that no one else your playgroup would deal with Planeswalkers.

There's about a 50% chance that you'd have drawn one of three Vampiric Hexmages by the time Vraska hits the table, for example. The deck doesn't appear to have an ability to recur non-Zombies if multiple PWs need answering. If PWs are a big issue, then AS is useful - if PWs are only an occasional issue, then AS can be safely ignored.

I really like having tutors in Black decks since they enable a broader range of answers and threats. Or they can be used to search for combo pieces.

With 2 copies of GP, 4 copies of Fleshbag Maurader, 3 Unholy Grotto, and 0 tutors to cheat, that 3 card combination isn't favored to come together in most games (Deck-u-lator says 31% chance after seeing 20 cards).

Quote from cme »

With 2 copies of GP, 4 copies of Fleshbag Maurader, 3 Unholy Grotto, and 0 tutors to cheat, that 3 card combination isn't favored to come together in most games (Deck-u-lator says 31% chance after seeing 20 cards).

Except that what you're describing isn't a combo. It's synergy. Grave Pact + creatures is often oppressively difficult for creature-based decks to beat. While some creatures are stronger than others at the end of the day EVERYTHING is going to do work once GP hits the table. Unholy Grotto is just a (more-or-less) strictly better basic land in a mono-Black deck with Gray Merchants and Marauders. You don't need all of your lands to tap for Black mana and so you just get to play a "free" recursion engine for 2 of the most powerful cards in your deck. It's a next-to-no-cost investment that will, on average, have a high payout. Fleshbag Marauder can be recurred, supports Pact and makes a turn 2 Wight of Precinct Six a real threat. It's like an Innocent Blood on crack in that sense. Rather than fielding dorky removal that just does a passable job you get the luxury of fielding an incredibly synergistic and versatile mass removal spell that shores up one of the only weaknesses of the deck's overall strategy. You still get the interact with your opponents but you don't have to play bad cards to do so.

The OP described Fleshbag Maurader + Grave Pact as a "lock," which was why I used combination math to evaluate how often the "lock" would come together to ensure opponent's creatures are irrelevant. I don't think tutors are bad cards in this deck (unless that comment was targeted at something else?)

Quote from cme »

The OP described Fleshbag Maurader + Grave Pact as a "lock," which was why I used combination math to evaluate how often the "lock" would come together to ensure opponent's creatures are irrelevant. I don't think tutors are bad cards in this deck (unless that comment was targeted at something else?)

If they come together, yes, he immediately kills the creature decks. It does more-or-less lock them out of the game. That beauty of the lock is that every card is perfectly playable as a standalone "thing."

Anyways, I do think that most tutors are very bad cards in these kinds of decks. Given the choice of expanding the board or finding a card you have a lot of incentive to the former and very little to do the latter. When your deck has Nykthos, Gary and Erebos there is a real cost associated to tapping out for something that doesn't add Devotion.

I'd rather have Demonic Tutor in there over the 3rd Exsanguinate, for example. I could find another card to shave for a Vampiric Tutor as well. The cards do cost $, but they also go into just about every Black deck.

Edit: NM - deck is heading in more of a budget direction.

Quote from cme »

I'd rather have Demonic Tutor in there over the 3rd Exsanguinate, for example. I could find another card to shave for a Vampiric Tutor as well. The cards do cost $, but they also go into just about every Black deck.

Edit: NM - deck is heading in more of a budget direction.

Very few playgroups use Vintage B&R lists from what I've seen.