Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
While extort is always welcome, Crypt Ghast suffers from the same issues as any mana dork in multiplayer including the somewhat similar Magus of the Coffers; sweeps are just devastating and the 2/2 body is underwhelming. It's always going to be safer to power out Exsanguinates with mana rocks and Cabal Coffers, but if you can get away with Ghast in your meta, go for it but I'd personally rather run a creature with more bite or if extort is what I'm going for; I'd rather run Thrull Parasite or Tithe Drinker that will hit the table faster.
In regards to your deck; I think it's interesting, but the amount of reliance on Crypt Ghast and the amount of assembly required makes me apprehensive.
I just feel like there are better options to ramp in black other than crypt gas. What does crypt ghast have over something like cabal coffers? Or even a Nirkana Revenant which has the same effect for 1 mana more but at least shes a 4/4 body that can pump herself.
I'd guess it's meta dependant. The ghast can be very powerful at smaller tables.
I like the list but I'm not sure about the heartless summonings. I'd trade those for a playset of win condition of your choice that aren't ghast dependent. Preferably some card that scales well with all those copy effects.
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In magic there's Harry Dresden, Fizban, Sethra Lavode, Dorotea Senjak and me...
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Yeah unfortunately he is difficult to protect. I did get a Griselbrand out with him turn 5 but that is pretty rare.
Other than that he really doesn't have a purpose in most decks. The ramp is nice but I can only see it useful for drain spells. He doesn't get to stay around once someone reads he doubles mana.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Geez. Tough crowd. I'm surprised that so many people have so many negative things to say about him. I personally think that he's an amazing card and I definitely underrated him when he was initially spoiled.
Cabal Coffers is fine and all but not every can afford them and not everyone can find them. I know that many MTG players live in foreign countries and it's not easy for them to order the cards that they need online and their LGSes aren't exactly stocked with oldschool goodies. Some people need access to newer, cheaper alternatives.
With respect to the card being weak to sweepers, meh, I don't find that to be the case. Using the OP's deck as an example, I would just field 4x Griselbrand were it me playing it. Ok, sure, that's not the most budget-friendly option, but I mean it gets the job done. The reality is that once you can start casting 8+ mana spells you can usually mitigate Wraths and such fairly easily with raw card draw. Remember, Black has a host of Promise of Power-like effects at its disposal. Once you factor Extort in to the equation these cards become quite beastly.
Could the card draw targeted hate? Sure. Still, that doesn't really bother me. People in my meta have been heavily influenced by me and so pretty much everyone is playing with stupidly powerful cards. You can't just fire off removal at the "scary" cawhile because of that. That is, good cards tend to thrive in "good card environments" in my experience.
Ok, I might have underestimated Crypt Ghast a bit, especially in regards to your deck which I have extensively been play testing because it interested me. I've had a decent amount of success, granted this wasn't testing against real opponents, but it's a start.
My list looks like this: (Some exclusions for budget and/or Legacy legality purposes). I haven't found Kessig Wolf Run overly useful in the deck as all victories have come off of massive extorts.
I run 3 of them (all I have) alongside lone copies of Nirkana Revenant, Cabal Coffers, and Magus of the Coffers to cast huge Exsanguinates from an otherwise simple monoblack deck. These are the copies I have, because, as Cz stated, not everyone can get the best options, so we settle for what's available.
My meta is sweeper lite, and sometimes the extort is useful. Truly, though, all I really use it for is a mana doubler. It is a simple deck, but it works.
In short, view extort as a bonus, with doubling as the main reason to run him.
Cheers!
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I'm putting a black/blue deck for casual play. Not looking to fit any format, particularly, but with the exception of 4 dark rituals, it's a Modern fit right now. A dark ritual to throw out a crypt ghast on turn two is just colossal. Tapping for 6 mana on 3rd turn really helps me keep up with my roommate's green ramp. Plus I'm running a reanimate deck with blue splash and 4x Dictate of Erebos,so opponents think twice about attacking my little Ghast. Then by turn 4 or 5, I'm pumping enough mana to lay down a Skinrender or Disciple of Bolas, giving me card draw and or simply removing one creature for each opponent. Then reanimate and repeat! My deck couldn't work without Crypt Ghasts right now.
If you're looking for lifedrain, and since you'll have TONS of mana from Rite of Replication and Crypt Ghast, why not throw a few Pontiff of Blight in there? Multiple instances of extort at once with a massive mana supply would be pretty useful imo.
Geez. Tough crowd. I'm surprised that so many people have so many negative things to say about him. I personally think that he's an amazing card and I definitely underrated him when he was initially spoiled.
Cabal Coffers is fine and all but not every can afford them and not everyone can find them. I know that many MTG players live in foreign countries and it's not easy for them to order the cards that they need online and their LGSes aren't exactly stocked with oldschool goodies. Some people need access to newer, cheaper alternatives.
With respect to the card being weak to sweepers, meh, I don't find that to be the case.
I agree with this entirely. This card is really really good.
The card has written on it, "Next turn I get to play whatever I have in my hand"
Considering the absurdly powerful stuff black has access to, together with blacks' ability to recur form the grave, I don't see how this card can be considered weak.
I'd guess it's meta dependant. The ghast can be very powerful at smaller tables.
I think it absolutely comes down to your play group, but even in 4 player games (what some would consider small), the card was pretty bad for me. I kinda laughed at Slave's quote on what the card basically reads to him ("Next turn I get to play whatever I have in my hand"), not because I doubt that the card does a lot of work for him, just that my version of the card's text says something totally different: "Mana Short yourself on turn 4 and brace for disappointment when I get blasted before you untap" lol
Seriously though I really wanted the card to work too, especially after seeing the (mostly) glowing reviews people were giving it in this thread. But I've been let down with each variation of the list I ran it in. Out of 10 or so games I played with it (admittedly, not a huge sample size), I never got to tap my lands for BB for more than a single turn, if even a single turn. I think the only way it might work for me is if I ran it alongside more recursion and/or protection, but that seems like a lot of effort to make the card do something relevant for me, unless the deck is already really efficient at doing those things and protecting/recurring Ghast is incidental to doing something else that's powerful. I dunno, maybe I expected too much, but I was kind of thinking it would add redundancy to the Cabal Coffers I had in the deck... A replacement for my Expedition Maps, it is not
Anyway, I'd be interesting in seeing some more successful lists with him in it. Maybe I was just trying to force him into the wrong deck.
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WUBG Atraxa Superfriends WRBG Saskia's Angry UBRG Yidris Valuetown WUBR Breya "not just for infinite combos anymore" Etherium Shaper
mana]W[/mana]UR Narset the Nerfed WBG Ghave counters madness BRG Prossh, Token Master UBG Tasigur Seedborn Control WU Brago Bouncy Castle WB Karlov Voltron B Erebos/Drana MBC R Feldon jank
Hmm... I've had in the back of my mind for some time now that I really should put my copies of Tron into a deck one of these days. In general, I've found 12-post to be better in my green shell, but you've piqued my interest a bit here. Would you mind posting the list (if you have one)? Also, how did the Ghasts work out for you in that list? Were they overshadowed by Tron, or compliment it nicely? Did you use Expedition Maps and busted black tutors of the Vampiric / Demonic variety to find Urborg + Tron pieces, or just rely on drawing them (naturally or with draw spells)? Curious... Thanks
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WUBG Atraxa Superfriends WRBG Saskia's Angry UBRG Yidris Valuetown WUBR Breya "not just for infinite combos anymore" Etherium Shaper
mana]W[/mana]UR Narset the Nerfed WBG Ghave counters madness BRG Prossh, Token Master UBG Tasigur Seedborn Control WU Brago Bouncy Castle WB Karlov Voltron B Erebos/Drana MBC R Feldon jank
'Ghasts in a Tron deck sounds horrible. You run urborg because it's better than a Swamp but having to tutor it out in addition to Tron is not where you want to be. Besides, what's the point? Tron taps for 7, Ghast taps for 6, how is that even advantageous? If you want to play Ghast, put him in a deck that wants Cabal Coffers, not Cloudpost.
And Ghast, Tron and Urborg add up.
So if you have two ghasts, tron, two swamps and an Urborg it yields 22 mana.
This happened more than once.
Note: I run seven decks at a time. Sometimes the Tron is what's left because the posts are elsewhere engaged.
If my side's filled with stuff the cogworks stay in place. When the board's a little empty the Ghasts tend to die pretty quickly.
Sorry about not having the entire list but the basics were life gain, card draw plus what I posted already.
I realize that they add up but my point is that it's overkill. If you need more than 6-7 mana to play Magic then your deck is never going to work and since Tron taps for roughly the same amount as Ghast it just seems silly to me to run both. Ghast is terrible if you don't draw Urborg and tutoring one out is hard when you need to assemble Tron as well. Obviously if people ignore you while you do nothing but ramp, draw cards and gain life then it'll work but that's basically the same thing as playing against goldfish. If you have time to tutor out 4 specific lands, draw cards and then do powerful things people aren't exactly pressuring you. I dunno, it just seems very unrealistic to me.
Thanks Thijs1301. I might try a small artifact/colorless sub-theme so the deck isn't as reliant on black mana, just in case it doesn't draw many swamps or Urborg gets blown up. Maybe play some Sundering Titans to really get the most out of those Urborgs
Anyway, I'll post back with my list if I have any success with it. Cheers!
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WUBG Atraxa Superfriends WRBG Saskia's Angry UBRG Yidris Valuetown WUBR Breya "not just for infinite combos anymore" Etherium Shaper
mana]W[/mana]UR Narset the Nerfed WBG Ghave counters madness BRG Prossh, Token Master UBG Tasigur Seedborn Control WU Brago Bouncy Castle WB Karlov Voltron B Erebos/Drana MBC R Feldon jank
The card has written on it, "Next turn I get to play whatever I have in my hand"
...I don't see how this card can be considered weak.
You just described half the wanna-be bombs, aka, 'Traps' in the game. Very, VERY rich lineage of cards like this.
Problem is, no one worth their salt will ever let you get to that next turn with this. If they didn't deal with him, chances they were in no position to stop you from doing anything anyway. That doesn't necessarily mean this guy is 'awesome' though. I agree he is not hugely playable outside of a crazy-ass combo that goes off in one turn, like what TWoo has proposed. That really seems intruguing. (But even then, reading the comments section, this deck still folds to some rather common answers. Travis is quick to agree but the deck is still so wacky, who cares?)
Groups vary, sure, but I have watched a guy in our group try to do unfair things with this card in a basically-fair deck for a few years now. I can't recall it ever having worked for him.
Edit: At the risk of sounding overly harsh, all I will say is this: If you're gonna put your faith in a card like Crypt Ghast, just make sure that whatever you're gonna do with him, be it 'Fair' or not, plan on doing it the same turn you play him or you get what you deserve... (and omg you deserve PLENTY!! :D)
You just described half the wanna-be bombs, aka, 'Traps' in the game.
Problem is, no one worth their salt will ever let you get to that next turn with this.
Yes and no. It's all relative to the game state, as in;
Whether anyone can actually do anything about it (which isn't always the case), and whether this is the biggest threat to the table.
Thing is, this card is just an enabler, it's not a red-flag like Grave Pact can be, so in my experience it's not always painted as a target.
I personally play Ghast in a deck with Cabal Coffers, so I have 2 main ways to get big mana. I get there more often than not.
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I have x4 of this dude and I really want to find a use for him in a Multiplayer environment.
Off the top of my head he would be stellar in an Exsanguinate / Ramp Deck.
Or
I found this wacky deck here Woo Brews with him.
I started my own version for casual play here Black Tides
4x Drowned Catacomb
1x Island
2x Kessig Wolf Run
12x Swamp
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Watery Grave
4x Clone
4x Crypt Ghast
4x Evil Twin
1x Griselbrand
1x Havengul Lich
4x Think Twice
1x Demonic Tutor
4x Ponder
2x Rite of Replication
1x Yawgmoth's Will
4x Heartless Summoning
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
In regards to your deck; I think it's interesting, but the amount of reliance on Crypt Ghast and the amount of assembly required makes me apprehensive.
I like the list but I'm not sure about the heartless summonings. I'd trade those for a playset of win condition of your choice that aren't ghast dependent. Preferably some card that scales well with all those copy effects.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Other than that he really doesn't have a purpose in most decks. The ramp is nice but I can only see it useful for drain spells. He doesn't get to stay around once someone reads he doubles mana.
I'll see if I can come up with a drain life deck.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Cabal Coffers is fine and all but not every can afford them and not everyone can find them. I know that many MTG players live in foreign countries and it's not easy for them to order the cards that they need online and their LGSes aren't exactly stocked with oldschool goodies. Some people need access to newer, cheaper alternatives.
With respect to the card being weak to sweepers, meh, I don't find that to be the case. Using the OP's deck as an example, I would just field 4x Griselbrand were it me playing it. Ok, sure, that's not the most budget-friendly option, but I mean it gets the job done. The reality is that once you can start casting 8+ mana spells you can usually mitigate Wraths and such fairly easily with raw card draw. Remember, Black has a host of Promise of Power-like effects at its disposal. Once you factor Extort in to the equation these cards become quite beastly.
Could the card draw targeted hate? Sure. Still, that doesn't really bother me. People in my meta have been heavily influenced by me and so pretty much everyone is playing with stupidly powerful cards. You can't just fire off removal at the "scary" cawhile because of that. That is, good cards tend to thrive in "good card environments" in my experience.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
My list looks like this: (Some exclusions for budget and/or Legacy legality purposes). I haven't found Kessig Wolf Run overly useful in the deck as all victories have come off of massive extorts.
4x Evil Twin
3x Griselbrand
1x Havengul Lich
4x Phyrexian Metamorph
4x Drowned Catacomb
1x Island
14x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Watery Grave
4x Think Twice
4x Ponder
2x Rite of Replication
4x Chromatic Lantern
My meta is sweeper lite, and sometimes the extort is useful. Truly, though, all I really use it for is a mana doubler. It is a simple deck, but it works.
In short, view extort as a bonus, with doubling as the main reason to run him.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
Or you can just curve Crypt Ghast into Gray Merchant of Asphodel + Extort into Exsanguinate .
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I agree with this entirely. This card is really really good.
The card has written on it, "Next turn I get to play whatever I have in my hand"
Considering the absurdly powerful stuff black has access to, together with blacks' ability to recur form the grave, I don't see how this card can be considered weak.
Seriously though I really wanted the card to work too, especially after seeing the (mostly) glowing reviews people were giving it in this thread. But I've been let down with each variation of the list I ran it in. Out of 10 or so games I played with it (admittedly, not a huge sample size), I never got to tap my lands for BB for more than a single turn, if even a single turn. I think the only way it might work for me is if I ran it alongside more recursion and/or protection, but that seems like a lot of effort to make the card do something relevant for me, unless the deck is already really efficient at doing those things and protecting/recurring Ghast is incidental to doing something else that's powerful. I dunno, maybe I expected too much, but I was kind of thinking it would add redundancy to the Cabal Coffers I had in the deck... A replacement for my Expedition Maps, it is not
Anyway, I'd be interesting in seeing some more successful lists with him in it. Maybe I was just trying to force him into the wrong deck.
WUBG Atraxa Superfriends
WRBG Saskia's Angry
UBRG Yidris Valuetown
WUBR Breya "not just for infinite combos anymore" Etherium Shaper
mana]W[/mana]UR Narset the Nerfed
WBG Ghave counters madness
BRG Prossh, Token Master
UBG Tasigur Seedborn Control
WU Brago Bouncy Castle
WB Karlov Voltron
B Erebos/Drana MBC
R Feldon jank
If I recall correctly it ran Urzatron, Urborg Tomb, the ghasts, Karn, Spine of Ish Sah, Disciple of Griselbrand, Skirsdag High Priest and probably some Promise of Power...
Hmmm, I forgot the rest. But it was a blast to play.
Maybe some Nezumi Graverobbers and Beacon of Unrest too.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
WUBG Atraxa Superfriends
WRBG Saskia's Angry
UBRG Yidris Valuetown
WUBR Breya "not just for infinite combos anymore" Etherium Shaper
mana]W[/mana]UR Narset the Nerfed
WBG Ghave counters madness
BRG Prossh, Token Master
UBG Tasigur Seedborn Control
WU Brago Bouncy Castle
WB Karlov Voltron
B Erebos/Drana MBC
R Feldon jank
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
And Ghast, Tron and Urborg add up.
So if you have two ghasts, tron, two swamps and an Urborg it yields 22 mana.
This happened more than once.
Note: I run seven decks at a time. Sometimes the Tron is what's left because the posts are elsewhere engaged.
If my side's filled with stuff the cogworks stay in place. When the board's a little empty the Ghasts tend to die pretty quickly.
Sorry about not having the entire list but the basics were life gain, card draw plus what I posted already.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
I realize that they add up but my point is that it's overkill. If you need more than 6-7 mana to play Magic then your deck is never going to work and since Tron taps for roughly the same amount as Ghast it just seems silly to me to run both. Ghast is terrible if you don't draw Urborg and tutoring one out is hard when you need to assemble Tron as well. Obviously if people ignore you while you do nothing but ramp, draw cards and gain life then it'll work but that's basically the same thing as playing against goldfish. If you have time to tutor out 4 specific lands, draw cards and then do powerful things people aren't exactly pressuring you. I dunno, it just seems very unrealistic to me.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
So I'll just say: no, I don't need more than 7 mana.
But when I have 22 I sure have fun spending it.
Also, it didn't come up every time I played the deck.
And the deck won a fair share (25% at a four player table).
And -repeating myself- I don't tutor, I just draw loads of cards.
Graveborn Muse plus Gutless Ghoul plus Bloodgift Demon might have been involved.
But it's been a few months so I'm not sure.
By the way, drawing the ghast without Urborg just means you get a smaller boost. Not that he's worthless.
Anyway, the man asked for my experience. Not whether the deck would succeed at your table.
Hmmm... Fell for it. Again.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Anyway, I'll post back with my list if I have any success with it. Cheers!
WUBG Atraxa Superfriends
WRBG Saskia's Angry
UBRG Yidris Valuetown
WUBR Breya "not just for infinite combos anymore" Etherium Shaper
mana]W[/mana]UR Narset the Nerfed
WBG Ghave counters madness
BRG Prossh, Token Master
UBG Tasigur Seedborn Control
WU Brago Bouncy Castle
WB Karlov Voltron
B Erebos/Drana MBC
R Feldon jank
You just described half the wanna-be bombs, aka, 'Traps' in the game. Very, VERY rich lineage of cards like this.
Problem is, no one worth their salt will ever let you get to that next turn with this. If they didn't deal with him, chances they were in no position to stop you from doing anything anyway. That doesn't necessarily mean this guy is 'awesome' though. I agree he is not hugely playable outside of a crazy-ass combo that goes off in one turn, like what TWoo has proposed. That really seems intruguing. (But even then, reading the comments section, this deck still folds to some rather common answers. Travis is quick to agree but the deck is still so wacky, who cares?)
Groups vary, sure, but I have watched a guy in our group try to do unfair things with this card in a basically-fair deck for a few years now. I can't recall it ever having worked for him.
Edit: At the risk of sounding overly harsh, all I will say is this: If you're gonna put your faith in a card like Crypt Ghast, just make sure that whatever you're gonna do with him, be it 'Fair' or not, plan on doing it the same turn you play him or you get what you deserve... (and omg you deserve PLENTY!! :D)
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
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Yes and no. It's all relative to the game state, as in;
Whether anyone can actually do anything about it (which isn't always the case), and whether this is the biggest threat to the table.
Thing is, this card is just an enabler, it's not a red-flag like Grave Pact can be, so in my experience it's not always painted as a target.
I personally play Ghast in a deck with Cabal Coffers, so I have 2 main ways to get big mana. I get there more often than not.