And another $25 goes down the drain for the sake of torturing my friends...
Anything specific about crown of flames in the confusion deck other than equip it on Norin to steal enchantments? I know it has a bounce effect but any way to use it w/o cancelling the swap?
And another $25 goes down the drain for the sake of torturing my friends...
Anything specific about crown of flames in the confusion deck other than equip it on Norin to steal enchantments? I know it has a bounce effect but any way to use it w/o cancelling the swap?
Sorry about that! The Crown is actually the card that retains the ability (not the creature itself!) so the idea is to cast it on opposing creatures. That way if they try and kill them in response at least it's a 2-for-1. Otherwise you just constantly bounce them to steal Enchantments but you should always be casting it on opposing threats.
Crown on Norin doesn't actually work. He gets exiled before the spell resolves which would result in having the Crown placed in your graveyard. The idea is to never cast it on your own creatures.
I'll update the explanation for the deck in a bit.
Wouldn't the first opportunity to activate crown be after confusion goes on the stack? Meaning crown resolves first and the swap is cancelled?
No. Here's the order of operations:
1. Norin the Wary is in play.
2. Crown of Flames gets cast targeting Norin and is placed on the stack.
3. Norin the Wary's triggered ability triggers and is placed on the stack.
4. Stack resolves using LIFO (last in, first out). Norin gets exiled. CoF fizzles and gets placed into your graveyard.
Edit: Assuming I'm right put Mark of fury in its place. Same cost but the bounce is built in and allows you to steal ***** and then swing with it.
I don't like that it can only be returned at EOT and you don't need your for mana anything else in this archetype. That being said it's rather immaterial and you could field either.
The issue I'm having is if I wanna use crown to steal an enchantment/am forced to switch. Either Crown's bounce resolves first and the swap won't happen due to Crown not being in play (at least that is what gatherer says) or they get the crown and I can't bounce it.
Maybe there is something my dense self is missing?
The issue I'm having is if I wanna use crown to steal an enchantment/am forced to switch. Either Crown's bounce resolves first and the swap won't happen due to Crown not being in play (at least that is what gatherer says) or they get the crown and I can't bounce it.
Maybe there is something my dense self is missing?
Ahh you're right, my bad. I completely forgot that both cards had to be in play for the exchange to occur. I haven't played a CiTR deck in like a decade >.<.
Good on you for being vigilant. I mostly added it to the guide a fun alternative because I know that people used to love that deck a long time ago. It's not especially competitive but it's incredibly fun and makes for interesting games.
Good on you for being vigilant. I mostly added it to the guide a fun alternative because I know that people used to love that deck a long time ago. It's not especially competitive but it's incredibly fun and makes for interesting games.
Its a hilarious gimmick that keeps people honest. Don't wanna get taken to the honeybee inn by Norin? Pack enchantment hate.
It's clear that we each have a different stance on the subject and since we've both said our pieces I'm willing to leave it at that.
What would you suggest that I do to make the guide more applicable to someone like you? I agree that I'm biased towards 4-8 player games since I primarily play online, Cube, competitive EDH and my personal 6-8 player FFAs all of which are 4+ FFAs with no teams and no attack restrictions. Moreover when I play 2HG it's always during pre-release events and/or competitive store events (usually Legcy) when you get to build your decks with a partner in mind as opposed to not knowing. I think we can both agree that that's significantly different than how you experience 2HG. As such my guides are heavily slanted towards those kinds of formats.
Do you think that I would help if I had a section for smaller games/team formats that showcased cards like Bolt, Pyroblast, Young Pyromancer and other cream-of-the-crop tempo cards? I know that you know that Bolt is good in formats such as 2HG but I can help by plugging cards like Fall of the Titans and Pyrohemia that are especially powerful when you get to work with any ally. Fall is just nuts and Hemia is insane when you use all of your mana to kill everything and then your Ally plays his creatures "second mainphase" (you know what I mean) to keep it around. Otherwise you want the powerful tempo spells like Bolt and Chain Lightning to efficiently remove threats.
New question for people! Should I bother with obvious card descriptions? Does Earthquake or Taurean Mauler need explanation text? Is it unclear why Insurrection is powerful? I'll keep it for the non-obvious stuff but I feel like I'm wasting everyone's time with a ton of these statements. Would it improve the guide if I removed them?
If the guides are for newbs, keep them. Newbs may not understand why earthquake is good and if they're dense like me need to have it bashed in, Repeatedly.
If the guides are for newbs, keep them. Newbs may not understand why earthquake is good and if they're dense like me need to have it bashed in, Repeatedly.
That was the idea. My worry is that explanations make the guide overly wordy when maybe the only thing that people need are lists. Hence why I'm looking for any and all input.
New players could definitely use the help. I remember being a kid and looking at Wrath of God, thinking "You have to destroy your OWN stuff too? Why not just play Plague Wind? Earthquake is a similar symmetric effect that may seem like a waste of a card if you don't have a few months' experience at least.
Anything specific about crown of flames in the confusion deck other than equip it on Norin to steal enchantments? I know it has a bounce effect but any way to use it w/o cancelling the swap?
Sorry about that! The Crown is actually the card that retains the ability (not the creature itself!) so the idea is to cast it on opposing creatures. That way if they try and kill them in response at least it's a 2-for-1. Otherwise you just constantly bounce them to steal Enchantments but you should always be casting it on opposing threats.
Crown on Norin doesn't actually work. He gets exiled before the spell resolves which would result in having the Crown placed in your graveyard. The idea is to never cast it on your own creatures.
I'll update the explanation for the deck in a bit.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Or am I wrong and didn't waste a dollar?
Edit: Assuming I'm right put Mark of fury in its place. Same cost but the bounce is built in and allows you to steal ***** and then swing with it.
No. Here's the order of operations:
1. Norin the Wary is in play.
2. Crown of Flames gets cast targeting Norin and is placed on the stack.
3. Norin the Wary's triggered ability triggers and is placed on the stack.
4. Stack resolves using LIFO (last in, first out). Norin gets exiled. CoF fizzles and gets placed into your graveyard.
They don't combo together at all.
I don't like that it can only be returned at EOT and you don't need your for mana anything else in this archetype. That being said it's rather immaterial and you could field either.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
1. Crown with a valid target enters play.
2. Confusion goes on the stack upon entry,
3. 1st chance to activate Crown?
Am I wrong about this? Is there a point where Crown can be activated so it goes on the stack before Confusion?
Yes, if you target any other creature then that works.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Maybe there is something my dense self is missing?
Ahh you're right, my bad. I completely forgot that both cards had to be in play for the exchange to occur. I haven't played a CiTR deck in like a decade >.<.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Good on you for being vigilant. I mostly added it to the guide a fun alternative because I know that people used to love that deck a long time ago. It's not especially competitive but it's incredibly fun and makes for interesting games.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Its a hilarious gimmick that keeps people honest. Don't wanna get taken to the honeybee inn by Norin? Pack enchantment hate.
It's clear that we each have a different stance on the subject and since we've both said our pieces I'm willing to leave it at that.
What would you suggest that I do to make the guide more applicable to someone like you? I agree that I'm biased towards 4-8 player games since I primarily play online, Cube, competitive EDH and my personal 6-8 player FFAs all of which are 4+ FFAs with no teams and no attack restrictions. Moreover when I play 2HG it's always during pre-release events and/or competitive store events (usually Legcy) when you get to build your decks with a partner in mind as opposed to not knowing. I think we can both agree that that's significantly different than how you experience 2HG. As such my guides are heavily slanted towards those kinds of formats.
Do you think that I would help if I had a section for smaller games/team formats that showcased cards like Bolt, Pyroblast, Young Pyromancer and other cream-of-the-crop tempo cards? I know that you know that Bolt is good in formats such as 2HG but I can help by plugging cards like Fall of the Titans and Pyrohemia that are especially powerful when you get to work with any ally. Fall is just nuts and Hemia is insane when you use all of your mana to kill everything and then your Ally plays his creatures "second mainphase" (you know what I mean) to keep it around. Otherwise you want the powerful tempo spells like Bolt and Chain Lightning to efficiently remove threats.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
That was the idea. My worry is that explanations make the guide overly wordy when maybe the only thing that people need are lists. Hence why I'm looking for any and all input.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Can someone fix them?
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.