Originally posted by mondu_the_fat: One minute you're arguing about meatlof and the next thing you know someone's sex life is being dredged up.
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
Mind's Eye probably isn't stellar in Wolfrun deck. Maybe drop another couple of ramp spells or Triumph of Ferocitys in there? Maybe your utility bears?
Mind's Eye probably isn't stellar in Wolfrun deck. Maybe drop another couple of ramp spells or Triumph of Ferocitys in there? Maybe your utility bears?
How much should I stray away from your ramp formula?
Well, I am not sure about that pick: Mind's Eye or Triumph of Ferocity? The way I see it, Triumph doesn't work without a creature. That alone makes it less reliable to me. Mind's Eye will always work if I have the mana. I will always draw at least three cards with it, possibly more if a certain opponent plays a certain deck.
It's not easy for me to pick threats because there are so many cool creatures.
I wanted Vorapede for the Undying ability, Primeval Titan + Avenger for the army-in-a-can effect, plus the pumping. Maro may not always work the way I want it. It can be around 10 most of the time though. Verdant Force seems kinda slow compared to Avenger, and I added Thragtusk mostly for the lifegain. I absolutely love Terastodon.
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Originally posted by mondu_the_fat: One minute you're arguing about meatlof and the next thing you know someone's sex life is being dredged up.
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
Well, I am not sure about that pick: Mind's Eye or Triumph of Ferocity? The way I see it, Triumph doesn't work without a creature. That alone makes it less reliable to me. Mind's Eye will always work if I have the mana. I will always draw at least three cards with it, possibly more if a certain opponent plays a certain deck.
Mind's Eye and LP are both slow. Sometimes it helps to combine slow and powerful draw with quick and efficient draw. If you like how they play out then that's fine. The problem is that sometimes this type of deck can be far too slow.
I wanted Vorapede for the Undying ability, Primeval Titan + Avenger for the army-in-a-can effect, plus the pumping. Maro may not always work the way I want it. It can be around 10 most of the time though. Verdant Force seems kinda slow compared to Avenger, and I added Thragtusk mostly for the lifegain. I absolutely love Terastodon.
MP isn't about playing perfect decks. If you're having fun playing with good creatures than I don't see the problem. There's no need to "optimize" a deck that doesn't really need optimization in the first place.
Originally posted by mondu_the_fat: One minute you're arguing about meatlof and the next thing you know someone's sex life is being dredged up.
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
For non creature ramp in mono green as stated above Skyshroud claim and also Nature's lore are my two favorites and my placeholder's unless I find something else that either works better or differently. I also subscribe to the cmc 2 and cmc 4 ramp slotting when I can.
Cultivate works well in a multi colored deck and explosive vegetation also has it's benefits in a more limited role.
Also, I'm trying to play a mono G version of this deck.
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Originally posted by mondu_the_fat: One minute you're arguing about meatlof and the next thing you know someone's sex life is being dredged up.
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
Primordial Hydra dies immediately when it enters play through LP. A couple more Primeval Titans might fit comfortably into those slots - they also have trample and can get almost as big through KWR and pulling lands.
If you win the lottery someday, your Primeval Titans could also pull a Vault of the Archangel combined with singleton Forest/Swamp, Forest/Mountain, and Forest/Plains.
While some of the creatures have a high casting cost, you'll be able to ramp or cheat them into play so 25 lands probably isn't necessary.
Personal preference - but I think I run 4 STE, 4 Solemn Simulacrum, 4 Joraga Treespeaker, and 4 Primeval Titan as my ramp package. By keeping it creature-only, LP hits more often. Removal is also all creature-based.
Originally posted by mondu_the_fat: One minute you're arguing about meatlof and the next thing you know someone's sex life is being dredged up.
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
I was about to comment that with only 22/60 creatures that Lurking Predators wouldn't hit nearly as often as if you had 32/60 creatures. But I see now that LP no longer makes the cut. And Kessig Wolf Run is another pretty significant loss in late game inevitability.
I was about to comment that with only 22/60 creatures that Lurking Predators wouldn't hit nearly as often as if you had 32/60 creatures. But I see now that LP no longer makes the cut. And Kessig Wolf Run is another pretty significant loss in late game inevitability.
Were you trying to tone down the effectiveness?
Well, if I was going to play a RG version, I would add more mountains. Having 4 Kessig Wolf Run AND 4 Raging Ravine was cumbersome. Now I have more lands coming into play untapped.
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Originally posted by mondu_the_fat: One minute you're arguing about meatlof and the next thing you know someone's sex life is being dredged up.
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
I don't encounter land destruction very often, so typically only run a single Kessig Wolf Run, with 4 Primeval Titans to fetch it and the Mountain. With only a single copy of KWR in the deck, I rarely draw it.
Ramping creatures + 4 Lurking Predators + 4 Primeval Titan + Kessig Wolf Run + creatures that deal with nasty artifacts/enchantments is one of the most effective multiplayer deck combinations possible. 24 lands, 4 LP, 32 creatures. If you haven't tried the archetype, I would strongly encourage it. Wicked good.
If you have tried LP and found that it wins too often to be fun, then by all means change gears.
It looks like the latest iteration is heading more towards a token strategy:
Avenger of Zendikar is one of my favorite token makers. There are many others.
Oblivion Stone - since Green can usually get out to a fast start with ramp has so many ways of dealing with permanents, board resets tend to have less utility.
I think there is a singleton Genesis and at least one Eternal Witness in every green deck I play.
If you aren't cheating creatures into play, I'd probably split the Terastodon and Woodfall Primus. Hard casting Terastodon can be difficult.
For card draw in this type of deck, my personal preference is Garruk, Primal Hunter, which unfortunately seems to be creeping up in price again. Not necessarily better than Harmonize, but other Green draw options are Momentous Fall and Greater Good.
I'd probably still run only 24 lands.
Oh, and it looks like Cz's green guide contains a section on tokens.
I play a Lurking Predators deck as well, and I vastly prefer the red splash for Wolf Run, as well as Mage Slayer. Those two cards alone are well worth the splash, as they add both inevitability and a way to get around other creatures/annoying effects in multiplayer.
I would highly recommend reconsidering a red splash, and Lurking Predators in general... unless you want to play tokens.
The reason I don't like Lurking Predators is that I can't control it. I can easily walk into a trap. For example, I get several creatures put into play and the next spell is a Wrath of God. Not only does it destroy all my current creatures, it destroys the next one as well.
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Originally posted by mondu_the_fat: One minute you're arguing about meatlof and the next thing you know someone's sex life is being dredged up.
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
I generally do not have that problem, because usually when I cast Lurking Predators there are least one or two other creature cards in my hand. I usually won't play these unless I have to, and instead let Predator do the work. So even if there is a Wrath, I'll still have some gas in hand (or man-lands, or Garruk), and Wrath doesn't answer Lurking Predators itself, which should refill your board quickly. You just have to be careful not to over-commit.
Sure, Wrath deals with creature-centric decks. But Lurking Predators puts you in a situation where your opponents HAVE to wrath each turn. And even then, good Green multiplayer decks use creatures that provide value through ETB or LTB triggers.
Sure, Wrath deals with creature-centric decks. But Lurking Predators puts you in a situation where your opponents HAVE to wrath each turn. And even then, good Green multiplayer decks use creatures that provide value through ETB or LTB triggers.
Originally posted by mondu_the_fat: One minute you're arguing about meatlof and the next thing you know someone's sex life is being dredged up.
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
Originally posted by mondu_the_fat: One minute you're arguing about meatlof and the next thing you know someone's sex life is being dredged up.
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
Woops. Forgot about this thread. Sorry for not answering your earlier questions.
As for the new list, how is the mana base? I love the idea of KWR and Vault in the same deck lol. Although, would Gavony Township be better than Sunhome? I don't like Sunhome because it makes good creatures slightly better. It doesn't do anything relevant for bad creatures. Cards like KWR, Gavony and Vault turn useless mana dorks into legitimate threats. I like that aspect of those cards.
Another small thing is that cards like KWR and Gavony make Triumph of Ferocity better. Triumph will ALWAYS trigger EVEN IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE BIGGEST GUY. Yes, that matters. It means that you can do things like activate KWR/Gavony in response if it will allow you to draw another card.
Still, let's get the actual concern. Solemn and STEve do NOT fetch duals. They fetch basic lands. That's not the same thing as a land with a basic land type. I don't know if that's clear or not. I realize that Wood Elves can find duals, I get that, but the other 8 creatures cannot.
The reason why I just splash Red is so that I can just jam a few mountains and Raging Ravines in there and call it a day. Ravine is a great threat and KWR is awesome.
Beyond that, how are you liking 36 sources of mana? I realize that people have historically ran up to 40 but I personally don't like going that deep in multiplayer. Were I playing this list I'd probably shave 2 of the mana dorks for some more threats. I just personally prefer having a solid backup plan or drawing and casting enough creatures to get the job done.
Out of curiosity, why the Winding Canyon? I mean, I love the card, but I don't see this deck getting much use out of it, since once things are rolling, you shouldn't have many of your turns pass where you aren't tapped out.
Winding Canyons is likely ran for its low opportunity cost and utility. The list doesn't realistically need another Forest and it's going to be useful a non-trivial % of the time. LP is great and all but it's just as mortal as any other card. This deck is often forced to play a fair game and it's nice to have tools to fight Control decks when you are. Being able to played "hasted" creatures is fantastic in a world of Wraths after all. It's actually a big reason why I've started adding Anger to my RG decks. I never appreciated how powerful the effect is until I really started playing with it.
Sure, and after mentally playing through a few games, I can see that this deck plays quite a bit differently than I had thought - though that does lead me to a new concern:
The deck is almost 100% dependent on getting out a Primeval Titan out to make the utility lands work and with no way of digging them out, that does seem like a concern. This is one deck that I would run a playset of Worldy Tutors in. It's not my favorite thing, but otherwise, every utility land you draw is dead in the water until you draw your Prime.
and with no way of digging them out, that does seem like a concern.
Digging out utility lands isn't that important. This is something that I don't think a lot of people appreciate. Extracting value from your mana base is nice because most people don't do it. It gives you a slight edge over the people who got lazy and just ran normal lands and keeps you on par with people who are, in fact, running utility lands. If he adds a Winding Canyons and doesn't see it every game that's fine. He's still playing a deck that does stuff. Every now and then he'll draw/Titan out a KWR and go big but I mean even when he doesn't he's still ramping out fatties. It's value that he gets at a very low opportunity cost.
This is one deck that I would run a playset of Worldy Tutors in. It's not my favorite thing, but otherwise, every utility land you draw is dead in the water until you draw your Prime.
Adding some basic lands to the deck seems much less taxing than cutting 4 spells for 4 cards that will 0 for 1 yourself. At that point he may as well just add Green Sun's Zenith or Living Wish. Both seem much more powerful by comparison.
He could always add few basics to shore that weakness up. With 12 land fetchers it's not overly difficult to find a splash color.
Digging out utility lands isn't that important. This is something that I don't think a lot of people appreciate. Extracting value from your mana base is nice because most people don't do it. It gives you a slight edge over the people who got lazy and just ran normal lands and keeps you on par with people who are, in fact, running utility lands. If he adds a Winding Canyons and doesn't see it every game that's fine. He's still playing a deck that does stuff. Every now and then he'll draw/Titan out a KWR and go big but I mean even when he doesn't he's still ramping out fatties. It's value that he gets at a very low opportunity cost.
Adding some basic lands to the deck seems much less taxing than cutting 4 spells for 4 cards that will 0 for 1 yourself. At that point he may as well just add Green Sun's Zenith or Living Wish. Both seem much more powerful by comparison.
Ah, right; adding a singleton of each basic land works too Though at that point the mana base starts to occasionally miss the critical T2 green. Still, that is a better solution.
And you're right that it's not the end of the world if none of the cool lands get to play, but to actually win, the deck is going to need one of them in play or LP in play to go the distance.
(Though, I agree that they probably aren't the answer here, Wordly Tutor is considerably better than the other two tutors in a LP deck :p)
Ah, right; adding a singleton of each basic land works too Though at that point the mana base starts to occasionally miss the critical T2 green. Still, that is a better solution.
His current deck has 19 sources of Green mana. Cutting 2 Forests for 2 basics drops that to 17. Still, let's ignore the ETBT land and assume a worst case scenario at 16. At that point he still has a 95.204% chance of having a turn 2 source of Green. This number is, in reality, virtually 100% if you assume a "standard" multiplayer game. You can mulligan 7 card hands that don't have Green but I'd be willing to bet money that his games have "soft" mulligan rules that allow you to mull terrible hands (i.e. 1 colorless land hands) for free. I have no insider information and know nothing about his meta but I mean I've never seen a playgroup that didn't allow for this type of thing.
I really don't think that finding Green for turn 2 would be problem even if he added 2 basics to the list.
16 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Raging Ravine
1 Yavimaya Hollow
//Creatures (20)
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Primordial Hydra
2 Vorapede
1 Verdant Force
1 Terastodon
1 Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
2 Avenger of Zendikar
2 Spearbreaker Behemoth
2 Thragtusk
1 Hornet Queen
2 Primeval Titan
2 Mind's Eye
4 Lurking Predators
4 Rampant Growth
4 Explosive Vegetation
So what do you guys think?
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
Mind's Eye probably isn't stellar in Wolfrun deck. Maybe drop another couple of ramp spells or Triumph of Ferocitys in there? Maybe your utility bears?
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
How much should I stray away from your ramp formula?
Well, I am not sure about that pick: Mind's Eye or Triumph of Ferocity? The way I see it, Triumph doesn't work without a creature. That alone makes it less reliable to me. Mind's Eye will always work if I have the mana. I will always draw at least three cards with it, possibly more if a certain opponent plays a certain deck.
It's not easy for me to pick threats because there are so many cool creatures.
I wanted Vorapede for the Undying ability, Primeval Titan + Avenger for the army-in-a-can effect, plus the pumping. Maro may not always work the way I want it. It can be around 10 most of the time though. Verdant Force seems kinda slow compared to Avenger, and I added Thragtusk mostly for the lifegain. I absolutely love Terastodon.
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
I don't like Boundless Realms but you're free to try whatever you want. I just don't see the point in ramping from 6 to 12 or whatever.
Mind's Eye and LP are both slow. Sometimes it helps to combine slow and powerful draw with quick and efficient draw. If you like how they play out then that's fine. The problem is that sometimes this type of deck can be far too slow.
I don't see the problem in running singletons myself. I normally do the same thing.
MP isn't about playing perfect decks. If you're having fun playing with good creatures than I don't see the problem. There's no need to "optimize" a deck that doesn't really need optimization in the first place.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I like Solemn Simulacrum a lot, but I still have to find a suitable replacement for Explosive Vegetation.
Silklash Spider is powerful, but Cloudthresher can really surprise an opponent. Choices, choices...
EDIT: Anyways, I'm updating the deck.
16 Forest
4 Kessig Wolf Run
3 Raging Ravine
1 Mountain
1 Yavimaya Hollow
//Creatures (23)
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Viridian Emissary
2 Primordial Hydra
2 Terastodon
2 Avenger of Zendikar
3 Silklash Spider
2 Primeval Titan
2 Acidic Slime
2 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Triumph of Ferocity
2 Oblivion Stone
4 Lurking Predators
4 Explosive Vegetation
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
Cultivate works well in a multi colored deck and explosive vegetation also has it's benefits in a more limited role.
I wish we had a functional reprint of Sakura-Tribe Elder.
Also, I'm trying to play a mono G version of this deck.
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
If you win the lottery someday, your Primeval Titans could also pull a Vault of the Archangel combined with singleton Forest/Swamp, Forest/Mountain, and Forest/Plains.
While some of the creatures have a high casting cost, you'll be able to ramp or cheat them into play so 25 lands probably isn't necessary.
Personal preference - but I think I run 4 STE, 4 Solemn Simulacrum, 4 Joraga Treespeaker, and 4 Primeval Titan as my ramp package. By keeping it creature-only, LP hits more often. Removal is also all creature-based.
//Lands (25)
19 Forest
4 Treetop Village
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Winding Canyons
//Creatures (22)
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Craterhoof Behemoth
2 Cloudthresher
2 Primeval Titan
4 Ant Queen
2 Pelakka Wurm
2 Thragtusk
2 Woodfall Primus or Terastodon
//Other (12)
4 Nature’s Lore
2 Harmonize
3 Beacon of Creation
2 Oblivion Stone
4 Skyshroud Claim
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
Were you trying to tone down the effectiveness?
Well, if I was going to play a RG version, I would add more mountains. Having 4 Kessig Wolf Run AND 4 Raging Ravine was cumbersome. Now I have more lands coming into play untapped.
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
Ramping creatures + 4 Lurking Predators + 4 Primeval Titan + Kessig Wolf Run + creatures that deal with nasty artifacts/enchantments is one of the most effective multiplayer deck combinations possible. 24 lands, 4 LP, 32 creatures. If you haven't tried the archetype, I would strongly encourage it. Wicked good.
If you have tried LP and found that it wins too often to be fun, then by all means change gears.
It looks like the latest iteration is heading more towards a token strategy:
Oh, and it looks like Cz's green guide contains a section on tokens.
I would highly recommend reconsidering a red splash, and Lurking Predators in general... unless you want to play tokens.
WBGJunk TokensGBW
Multiplayer:
WWWLuminarch StonebladeWWW
BBBMono-Black ControlBBB
GRGKessig PredatorsGRG
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
Also, you should run Genesis.
WBGJunk TokensGBW
Multiplayer:
WWWLuminarch StonebladeWWW
BBBMono-Black ControlBBB
GRGKessig PredatorsGRG
Sakura-Tribe Elder, Solemn Simulacrum, Thragtusk, Pelakka Wurm, Primeval Titan, Yavimaya Elder, Wood Elves, Eternal Witness, Terastodon, Acidic Slime, Woodfall Primus, etc. And you kind of want Genesis to die.
What are the alternatives? If you cast a creature or make a bunch of tokens instead of casting LP, they die as easily to that Wrath.
Well, I guess that makes sense. I've also made a third version of the classic ramp. Of course I tinkered with the land base.
17x Forest
3x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Raging Ravine
2x Mountain
1x Yavimaya Hollow
1x Winding Canyons
2x Ulvenwald Tracker
4x Wood Elves
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Genesis
2x Acidic Slime
2x Cloudthresher
2x Spearbreaker Behemoth
2x Pelakka Wurm
2x Woodfall Primus
4x Primeval Titan
2x Triumph of Ferocity
4x Lurking Predators
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
I have version 3.1
15x Forest
1x Savannah
1x Taiga
1x Bayou
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Raging Ravine
1x Yavimaya Hollow
1x Winding Canyons
1x Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1x Vault of the Archangel
4x Wood Elves
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Genesis
2x Acidic Slime
2x Cloudthresher
2x Spearbreaker Behemoth
2x Pelakka Wurm
2x Woodfall Primus or Terastodon
3x Primeval Titan
1x Avenger of Zendikar
1x Eternal Witness
4x Lurking Predators
My playgroup: four people total.
We use the Legacy B&R list.
My meta consists of combo, control and some aggro / midrange decks.
My group uses proxies, so budget is not an issue. Because of this, things can get out of hand.
As for the new list, how is the mana base? I love the idea of KWR and Vault in the same deck lol. Although, would Gavony Township be better than Sunhome? I don't like Sunhome because it makes good creatures slightly better. It doesn't do anything relevant for bad creatures. Cards like KWR, Gavony and Vault turn useless mana dorks into legitimate threats. I like that aspect of those cards.
Another small thing is that cards like KWR and Gavony make Triumph of Ferocity better. Triumph will ALWAYS trigger EVEN IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE BIGGEST GUY. Yes, that matters. It means that you can do things like activate KWR/Gavony in response if it will allow you to draw another card.
Still, let's get the actual concern. Solemn and STEve do NOT fetch duals. They fetch basic lands. That's not the same thing as a land with a basic land type. I don't know if that's clear or not. I realize that Wood Elves can find duals, I get that, but the other 8 creatures cannot.
The reason why I just splash Red is so that I can just jam a few mountains and Raging Ravines in there and call it a day. Ravine is a great threat and KWR is awesome.
Beyond that, how are you liking 36 sources of mana? I realize that people have historically ran up to 40 but I personally don't like going that deep in multiplayer. Were I playing this list I'd probably shave 2 of the mana dorks for some more threats. I just personally prefer having a solid backup plan or drawing and casting enough creatures to get the job done.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Out of curiosity, why the Winding Canyon? I mean, I love the card, but I don't see this deck getting much use out of it, since once things are rolling, you shouldn't have many of your turns pass where you aren't tapped out.
My Decks:
Casual MP
:symg::symb:GB Glissa Pod:symg::symb:
:symu::symw::symb:Esper Artifacts:symu::symw::symb:
:symu::symb::xmana:Ninjas!:xmana::symb::symu:
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
The deck is almost 100% dependent on getting out a Primeval Titan out to make the utility lands work and with no way of digging them out, that does seem like a concern. This is one deck that I would run a playset of Worldy Tutors in. It's not my favorite thing, but otherwise, every utility land you draw is dead in the water until you draw your Prime.
My Decks:
Casual MP
:symg::symb:GB Glissa Pod:symg::symb:
:symu::symw::symb:Esper Artifacts:symu::symw::symb:
:symu::symb::xmana:Ninjas!:xmana::symb::symu:
He could always add few basics to shore that weakness up. With 12 land fetchers it's not overly difficult to find a splash color.
Digging out utility lands isn't that important. This is something that I don't think a lot of people appreciate. Extracting value from your mana base is nice because most people don't do it. It gives you a slight edge over the people who got lazy and just ran normal lands and keeps you on par with people who are, in fact, running utility lands. If he adds a Winding Canyons and doesn't see it every game that's fine. He's still playing a deck that does stuff. Every now and then he'll draw/Titan out a KWR and go big but I mean even when he doesn't he's still ramping out fatties. It's value that he gets at a very low opportunity cost.
Adding some basic lands to the deck seems much less taxing than cutting 4 spells for 4 cards that will 0 for 1 yourself. At that point he may as well just add Green Sun's Zenith or Living Wish. Both seem much more powerful by comparison.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Ah, right; adding a singleton of each basic land works too Though at that point the mana base starts to occasionally miss the critical T2 green. Still, that is a better solution.
And you're right that it's not the end of the world if none of the cool lands get to play, but to actually win, the deck is going to need one of them in play or LP in play to go the distance.
(Though, I agree that they probably aren't the answer here, Wordly Tutor is considerably better than the other two tutors in a LP deck :p)
My Decks:
Casual MP
:symg::symb:GB Glissa Pod:symg::symb:
:symu::symw::symb:Esper Artifacts:symu::symw::symb:
:symu::symb::xmana:Ninjas!:xmana::symb::symu:
His current deck has 19 sources of Green mana. Cutting 2 Forests for 2 basics drops that to 17. Still, let's ignore the ETBT land and assume a worst case scenario at 16. At that point he still has a 95.204% chance of having a turn 2 source of Green. This number is, in reality, virtually 100% if you assume a "standard" multiplayer game. You can mulligan 7 card hands that don't have Green but I'd be willing to bet money that his games have "soft" mulligan rules that allow you to mull terrible hands (i.e. 1 colorless land hands) for free. I have no insider information and know nothing about his meta but I mean I've never seen a playgroup that didn't allow for this type of thing.
I really don't think that finding Green for turn 2 would be problem even if he added 2 basics to the list.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold