MTG Salvation

Hey. I've recently put together a deck centered around Quest for the Holy Relic just for fun, since I had most of the cards. I used the decklist in the "White Weenie" primer as a basis. Here is what I have:



Changes from the primer list:
-2 Swords to Plowshares, +2 Wrath of God - Because sometimes you just need to nuke the board, and StP loses some of its luster in a multiplayer environment. Perhaps I should cut StP altogether and get a full playset of ***?

-2 Wall of Omens, +2 Land Tax - Since Land Tax is pretty much awesome in multiplayer, I feel like it will work much better in thinning out my deck rather than drawing a single card off the wall.

Basically, I am looking for ways to make this deck more competitive in a multiplayer environment. It's actually not too bad as it is, but I feel like it could still be better. What other changes should I make? Having some recursion for my artifacts and enchantments would be nice in case they get blown up... maybe find a way to fit Open the Vaults in there somehow?

I think if you're going to run stoneforge mystic puresteel paladin becomes way better than usual. As in you need 3 minimum.

Win Condition 1- Quest into Argentum early.
Win Condition 2- Paladin + Metalcraft, Stoneforge Argentum into play + Free Equip.

Both can have Armor in play and attacking by turn 4. I'd cut 1-2 Mom.

PS: The deck looks exceptionally good already BTW.

I would definitely cut the remaining copies of Swords to Plowshares. Four Wraths seems good, as your equipment, at least, will persist through one.

Glint Hawk seems pretty weak in a multiplayer environment. I would cut it for more equipment - maybe you don't need multiples of anything, but I'd look at adding things like Loxodon Warhammer, completing the set of swords (if you have them/can get them), maybe Deathrender or Scythe of the Wretched.

I might also replace Memnite and Ornithopter - I know that they make it possible to fire off the quest a little faster (possibly in one turn, depending on your draw), but if you can't equip them, they're pretty much dead. In a duel, it doesn't matter, because slamming one of your key equipment onto Squadron Hawk can put you so far ahead that your 0/2 guys don't matter, but in multiplayer, you probably need to be a little stronger on the board. You could run some generically good white creatures here - Student of Warfare, Mirran Crusader, Transcendent Master, etc. Raksha Golden Cub seems alright, too, even if you don't run any other cats.

I'd also slide in a Mistveil Plains, too, to recur your Squadron Hawks.

I feel if you're going to run expensive (monetary) equipment you're better off scrapping the janky Quest for the Holy Relic idea and pushing the deck over the top by assembling a more typical CAW Blade setup. As Carom said, Glint Hawk, Memnite, and Ornithopter are all going to be under-performers at the multiplayer table. I would suggest this creature setup:

4x Puresteel Paladin
4x Squadron Hawk
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Stonehewer Giant

Throw in Steelshaper's Gift and a token generator (potent equipment loves a stream of bodies) ie Kjeldoran Outpost and/or Luminarch Ascension and/or Mobilization. In regards to equipment: Sword of Body and Mind's tokens can be great, and Puresteel Paladin loves to play with Heartseeker. Loxodon Warhammer is also always solid as mentioned. You should flesh out your land base as well, twenty lands is too light for multiplayer. I would suggest you increase your metalcraft potential with Darksteel Citadel and add the utility of Mistveil Plains as well.

Thanks for the input everyone, much appreciated.

After initially scrapping Memnite, Ornithopter and Glint Hawk as prescribed for more multiplayer-friendly cards, I came to the realization that the Quest gameplan is basically useless at this point, as Giblets pointed out.

Peep what I'm rolling now:



As you can see, I made many changes. Land-wise, I've thrown in Darksteel Citadel and Kjeldoran Outpost as prescribed, both to easily activate Puresteel Paladin's trigger and to make tokens, respectively. Also threw in Mistveil Plains to help recur creatures/Squadron Hawk as said. Land count has been brought up to 23 - is that enough?

In the creature department, I've taken everyone's advice and scrapped the Quest plan. No more Memnite/Ornithopter/Glint Hawk, instead replaced with +4 Stonehewer Giant and brought Puresteel Paladin up to a full playset. The Giant seems to be pretty awesome in this deck. I've kept Mom in there for now, because why not, I feel like she would always be nice to have around. Perhaps I should omit her for Steelshaper's Gift? I'm not sure yet.

I replaced Quest for the Holy Relic with +4 Luminarch Ascension. Thanks for that idea, Giblets. This card is badass in multiplayer. Not only can it produce tokens quickly and give me extra buff bodies for my equipment, but I can also wipe the board with a Wrath if need be, and pump out replacement bodies quickly. Speaking of which...

Cut Swords to Plowshares completely, replaced with a full set of Wrath of God.

I haven't had a chance to really test this deck yet, but it seems to play like your typical Stoneblade/Cawblade or Voltron deck, with a more multiplayer-viable cards. Again thanks for your suggestions. How does it look now?

Even with Land Tax, I'm not sure how often you'll hit seven plains to be able to use Emeria, considering you also want to play out your artifact lands and some other utility lands. Probably something to keep track of when you actually get some testing in - how many game situations are you in where you have enough plains to trigger it? My guess is, it'll often end up being dead in this deck, but I'm not sure. If you feel like you really need extra recursion, I would go for a second Mistveil Plains over Emeria, but again, it's probably a question to resolve with some testing.

Mother of Runes is just a good card, and does good work here by either giving you protection for any of your creatures, or by letting you punch through if you find the board is a little locked up. I think she's probably better than a one-shot artifact tutor like Steelshaper's Gift.

I like the way this deck looks - a bit of testing will tell you how it fares in your meta, particularly with respect to the mix of equipment, but it seems pretty solid to me, at this point.

You might want to scale back the Wrath of God count and squeeze in just a few more equipments. I agree with Carom in regards to Mistveil Plains over Emeria, the Sky Ruin; recurring lost equipment that you can just re-tutor is the power there. I would try to get 2-4 Mistveil Plains in. I think you can get by with 23 lands, but Kjeldoran Outpost and Mistveil Plains can slow up your mana base; I would give it a few plays at 23 and see how Land Tax is sustaining you. Overall everything looks great, a similar deck is played in my playgroup and I can attest to its potency, CAW Blade is just good.

Point taken on Mistveil Plains vs. Emeria, the Sky Ruin.

-1 Emeria, -1 Wrath of God
+1 Mistveil Plains, +1 Sword of Body and Mind

Now, time to do some actual testing with this deck and see how 23 lands holds up.

Quote from Mike5150

Now, time to do some actual testing with this deck and see how 23 lands holds up.

Please don't count the Outpost as a land >.<! You're virtually at 22 which seems low to me personally.

Any idea what I should cut for more land?

Off the top of my head, I would cut a Stonehewer Giant.

Quote from Mike5150

Any idea what I should cut for more land?

Personally, I would make more cuts to Wrath of God.

Perhaps running Elbrus, the Binding Blade with stoneforge mystic you can get it out quick and hit for some early damage then get a 13/13 that gets stronger with each person killed. I think this card would do well in a multiplayer enviorment

Further changes:

-1 Wrath of God, +1 Plains
-1 Stonehewer Giant, +1 Darksteel Citadel

So I'm now up to 25 lands in the deck. This, plus Land Tax, seems enough to sustain me throughout the game. I only had a chance to play one actual FFA game so far, but the deck performed quite well. I ended up winning handily, and this deck also seems to be fairly resilient to board wipes, so long as you don't overextend too much. Squadron Hawk, Mistveil Plains, and Kjeldoran Outpost really help with that.

Elbrus, the Binding Blade seems like a good card for this deck. The question is what to cut for it?

Quote from Mike5150

Elbrus, the Binding Blade seems like a good card for this deck. The question is what to cut for it?

I honestly would cut 1-2 wrath of god. Unless his/her opponents are generating alot of creatures every turn I think 4 is a little much. You would be safe with 2 or 3 I think. I think running a buried ruin or 2 would be a wise move. Just incase they are packing some artifact destruction, discard, etc.

Can you post your most recently updated deck list Mike? so we can see exactly where we are now.

Yup, here it is.



As you can see I am already down to 2 Wraths and would probably like to keep it that way. Maybe cutting my weakest equipment for Elbrus, the Binding Blade might be a good choice, although they are all pretty good.

I would definitely cut an equipment - the Warhammer and Heartseeker both seem lackluster in this list.

Quote from Mooncrow

I would definitely cut an equipment - the Warhammer and Heartseeker both seem lackluster in this list.

Loxodon Warhammer could go if you have your heart set on using Elbrus, the Binding Blade, but don't you dare remove Heartseeker it's amazing with Puresteel Paladin.

Quote from Giblets

Loxodon Warhammer could go if you have your heart set on using Elbrus, the Binding Blade, but don't you dare remove Heartseeker it's amazing with Puresteel Paladin.

"Amazing" seems like a pretty big stretch - sure, it may turn all your guys into Royal Assassins, but then, I don't run Royal Assassins in my decks either. Compared to the flexibility and power of the other equipment, it's just not that impressive.

Quote from Mooncrow

"Amazing" seems like a pretty big stretch - sure, it may turn all your guys into Royal Assassins, but then, I don't run Royal Assassins in my decks either. Compared to the flexibility and power of the other equipment, it's just not that impressive.

That's not really a fair comparison. Murder is much better than Assassinate is. I do think that the card is pretty bad without a Paladin around, but hey, it's pretty damn good if you do have one. Much better then a bunch of virtual Royal Assassins, that's for sure.

I would probably cut Body and Mind myself. Both effects are largely irrelevant and the protections are somewhat mediocre in my experience. When you want Heartseeker you're going to really want it but I can't think of many situations where B&M will come in handy. It's just not very good unless you're facing a UG deck and even then it's only useful for cheesing them out via damage. Very unimpressive card overall in my experience.

Alright, it may not be a fair comparison. And I would probably cut SoBaM as well - likely for another Jitte as insurance Argentum Armor is powerful enough that even though it only works conditionally, it makes up for it when it does work. Heartseeker is more conditional and lacks the raw power of Argentum Armor.

I'm not saying it's a bad card by any means, but I stand by my assertion that it's considerably weaker than most of the rest of the equipment. I mean, I have trouble thinking of any board state that would make me go digging for it over something else on the list.

Quote from Mooncrow

I'm not saying it's a bad card by any means, but I stand by my assertion that it's considerably weaker than most of the rest of the equipment. I mean, I have trouble thinking of any board state that would make me go digging for it over something else on the list.

I can. Around here people play like me and jam 6-8 bomb 6-7 drops in their decks. Wurmcoil Engine, Angel of Serenity, Grave Titan, etc. At any point beyond turn 5 or so you can expect to see Angels, Dragons, Demons, Wurms, and much more all cramming their way on the field. Assuming that I have a Paladin, I wouldn't mind having a Heartseeker in those kinds of board states.

What I personally never see is a board state where I actively want SoBaM. UG is an uncommon color combo and Blue doesn't usually have much in the way of blockers to begin with. Green certainly does, but Green is more than willing to race you if it needs to. It's not like your milling/wolf is going to dissuade that.

Again, I'm not saying that Seeker is amazing or anything, but I do think that it's better than SoBaM most of the time and better than Argentum Armor a non-trivial % of the time. I have played with the card in this style of deck and have actively seeked it out to clear the field when it was full of bombs. I have never wanted to put SoBaM in my decks and have never wished that I had. Purely anecdotal evidence obv, but hey, it's gotta be worth something to someone.

I agree, I actually like Heartseeker so far. I think it basically gives this deck some spot removal capabilities when it needs to have them. Meanwhile, SoBaM has been a bit underwhelming. It certainly helped in the match I played last night, but I feel like it could have been something even better.

Thanks for all the input, everyone - this deck is shaping up to be pretty awesome!

-1 Sword of Body and Mind, +1 Elbrus, the Binding Blade

While I'm at it, does anyone have any other good equipments they would like to suggest?

Yeah, you're probably right - I'm cranky today and probably shouldn't be posting

That said, looking at it again, my MP version of the deck is quite different, as it runs 8 board wipes and never looks to have more than 2-3 creatures out max, so I can see where the difference in thought comes in.