This in reality doesn't sound like legacy without answers (unless you want to currupt the meaning of legacy lite). This in reality sounds like a format that's trying to imitate another card game, like Yugioh. I might have supported thus format if it wasn't for the rationale of its restriction list. I would rather have a format where cards that belong to expansion sets like The Dark and Coldsnap are legal. While cards that only exist in core sets or supplemental sets such as Conspiracy wouldn't be legal.
Seriously, if you're fixing the mistakes of modern (something I strongly approve of) start by adding in every set that isn't on the reserved list. Why the hell should we have Jace but not FoF?
Agreed with this and other thoughts along those lines. Seems completely unnecessary when we already have healthy Legacy/Modern scenes that basically cover all of those bases in a well-balanced way (and aren't saddled with the inelegance of restricted cards).
heres my case.
I didn't create the format because I was personally upset about recent events, they had zero impact on me playing any format.
I also think the format is entirely different from both modern and legacy. Legacy has lands that produce additional mana, you have multiple ways of getting 3 mana tune 1. This format does not have nearly as many. Modern is a much slower format that the one I am suggesting because it doesn't have these cards available. Wizards perpously impimented a turn 3-4 rule. Also there are entire archetypes that can be played in the format I am suggesting that can be interacted with, without force of will.
the format has a chance to be very healthy, it may not take off but I won't just give it up this early because some people think that it will be a coin flip or that the cards are broken. If they truly were that broken they would have a stronger showing in legacy in spite of force of will.
And in response to the current restricted list, I didn't have a chance to test too much and I do see some other cards that need to be restricted but the list is going to remain the same until the next set release.
I'll keep going and trying to make the format work it's only 2-3 days in.
I don't think you realize how widely force is played and how much it keeps the combos you want down. It's literally the one card that keeps the entire format together. It's that crucial. Your format wouldn't even have COUNTERSPELL and you think it wouldn't fall apart due to degenerate combos?
If they truly were that broken they would have a stronger showing in legacy in spite of force of will.
Affinity doesn't bow to FoW. It does, however, bow to null rod... which doesn't exist in this format.
FoW isn't the be all of legacy.
And in response to the current restricted list, I didn't have a chance to test too much and I do see some other cards that need to be restricted but the list is going to remain the same until the next set release.
It isn't just the restricted list. The fact that you have no banned cards is as big a problem. Sure, you can keep on restricting cards until decks mentioned so far no longer has a presence, but at that point your restricted list will make the format look like EDH. And it still won't solve the problem of cards that are problematic even as a one-of. What, you going to restrict cards like stone forge and hexmage as well? Artifact lands?
I've been told that's what modern is
Whoever told you that is an just. plain. wrong. It would have been, if the ban list didn't exist.
Which is this format.
So in that sense why would people play vintage when legacy is a thing.
People who play vintage over legacy do so because they like broken plays. No one plays vintage because it's a balanced format. It isn't.
You just admitted that this format is broken bonkers.
Not sure if this is the right spot so please feel free to move it if need be.
Hey Guys after the Fall out of the Modern Banning I decided to make a detailed post about a new format I am calling Traditional. The name is not as catchy as I would like, but I think the format would open up a great opportunity for people to play the cards they love in a competitive environment.
Welcome to the newest MTG format called Traditional. There is no ban list, just a restricted list. So far I have not done any testing of the format to determine what cards need to be restricted, however I will be making a restricted list based on that of the Modern banned list. It will be modified as time goes on around the time of a new set release to coincide with Wizards own Banned and Restricted updates.
This is not a sanctioned format but hopefully one day it will be.
The reason I present this format is because like vintage there needs to be a format where you have a smaller restriction on your cards that you can play and you can still use powerful cards and have powerful interactions without fear that the cards will be banned.
A little bit more detail about the format.
All sets that are Modern Legal are Traditional Legal.
Dragons of Tarkir (effective March 27th, 2015)
Fate Reforged (effective January 23rd)
Khans of Tarkir
Magic 2015
Journey into Nyx
Born of the Gods
Theros
Magic 2014
Dragon's Maze
Gatecrash
Return to Ravnica
Magic 2013
Avacyn Restored
Dark Ascension
Innistrad
Magic 2012
New Phyrexia
Mirrodin Besieged
Scars of Mirrodin
Magic 2011
Rise of the Eldrazi
Worldwake
Zendikar
Magic 2010
Alara Reborn
Conflux
Shards of Alara
Eventide
Shadowmoor
Morningtide
Lorwyn
Tenth Edition
Future Sight
Planar Chaos
Time Spiral
Coldsnap
Dissension
Guildpact
Ravnica: City of Guilds
Ninth Edition
Saviors of Kamigawa
Eighth Edition
Betrayers of Kamigawa
Champions of Kamigawa
Fifth Dawn
Darksteel Mirrodin
The Following Cards are Restricted in Traditional
Blazing Shoal
Dark Depths
Dread Return
Hypergenesis
Rite of Flame
Skullclamp
Sword of the Meek
I hope you get a chance to try the format and I hope that this takes off. Let me know if you have tried the format and lets see if we can spread the word.
It would even allow you to play cards that never saw the light of Modern day.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Not sure if this is the right spot so please feel free to move it if need be.
Hey Guys after the Fall out of the Modern Banning I decided to make a detailed post about a new format I am calling Traditional. The name is not as catchy as I would like, but I think the format would open up a great opportunity for people to play the cards they love in a competitive environment.
Welcome to the newest MTG format called Traditional. There is no ban list, just a restricted list. So far I have not done any testing of the format to determine what cards need to be restricted, however I will be making a restricted list based on that of the Modern banned list. It will be modified as time goes on around the time of a new set release to coincide with Wizards own Banned and Restricted updates.
This is not a sanctioned format but hopefully one day it will be.
The reason I present this format is because like vintage there needs to be a format where you have a smaller restriction on your cards that you can play and you can still use powerful cards and have powerful interactions without fear that the cards will be banned.
A little bit more detail about the format.
All sets that are Modern Legal are Traditional Legal.
Dragons of Tarkir (effective March 27th, 2015)
Fate Reforged (effective January 23rd)
Khans of Tarkir
Magic 2015
Journey into Nyx
Born of the Gods
Theros
Magic 2014
Dragon's Maze
Gatecrash
Return to Ravnica
Magic 2013
Avacyn Restored
Dark Ascension
Innistrad
Magic 2012
New Phyrexia
Mirrodin Besieged
Scars of Mirrodin
Magic 2011
Rise of the Eldrazi
Worldwake
Zendikar
Magic 2010
Alara Reborn
Conflux
Shards of Alara
Eventide
Shadowmoor
Morningtide
Lorwyn
Tenth Edition
Future Sight
Planar Chaos
Time Spiral
Coldsnap
Dissension
Guildpact
Ravnica: City of Guilds
Ninth Edition
Saviors of Kamigawa
Eighth Edition
Betrayers of Kamigawa
Champions of Kamigawa
Fifth Dawn
Darksteel Mirrodin
The Following Cards are Restricted in Traditional
Blazing Shoal
Dark Depths
Dread Return
Hypergenesis
Rite of Flame
Skullclamp
Sword of the Meek
I hope you get a chance to try the format and I hope that this takes off. Let me know if you have tried the format and lets see if we can spread the word.
It would even allow you to play cards that never saw the light of Modern day.
Yeah I kinda realized that once I had more time to think about them. How ever I'm not going to flip my list on a whim, need to follow some structure otherwise what's the point in trying to make this more than kitchen table.
Artificer's Intuition neatly gets around the restriction of Skullclamp, and in a format were it's who can break the game faster, I think this little combo would do so constantly. It would be terrible.
With there yet to be an event of this format people saying it would be terrible have no more of an argument than I do. Like I said the format is still in the infantile stages and I'm gonna run some events locally and see how real matches play out. You people may be right, but that shouldn't stop me from trying.
I just think that restricted list is a no bono. A Dark Depths+Thropter Swords, or you could us Knight of the Reliquary to snag either your depths or your stage. I'll cascade into Hypergenesis for the win, and storm..., I hope you can keep up with a full powered storm. How many decks can beat 20+ goblin tokens on turn 2, with possible haste? It would be a fun format to play just for fun. I am a combo player, I would love to goldfish all night every once in a while, and see what craziness I could pull. But for an actual format, it would be way to broken.
With there yet to be an event of this format people saying it would be terrible have no more of an argument than I do. Like I said the format is still in the infantile stages and I'm gonna run some events locally and see how real matches play out. You people may be right, but that shouldn't stop me from trying.
Not everything needs to be tested. People with experience in a certain subject can evaluate a proposition hypothetically.
The burden of proof is not on us to disprove every absurdity presented to us.
The only way this format works is if you have casual players playing it, but that is not how we evaluate formats. A competitive format must be interesting even when competitive minded players are actively attempting to abuse the deck building possibilities allowed within it. This format just fails under those circumstances.
Amusingly, the only saving grace of this format at all is Mental Misstep, which has no deckbuilding constraints whatsoever, so every single deck will have four. Its difficult for me to see that as a positive thing.
Ok, so you all think it will fail. Point understood. No need to bring it up ever again. Please if you don't have something constructive to say like try changing this or that don't bother posting hate for a format you have never tried.
I've always thought that BYOT2 was the perfect format. The power level isn't too high, you can play with damn near every card ever made...and even strictly worse or obsoleted cards will still see play because they will be legal with other more powerful cards. You even get to see clashes like Necropotence vs. Affinity and so on, to see which powerful decks from the past were really the best.
You can still have a restricted list of course if something turns out to be too degenerate (*cough Academy *cough*).
Ok, so you all think it will fail. Point understood. No need to bring it up ever again. Please if you don't have something constructive to say like try changing this or that don't bother posting hate for a format you have never tried.
Actually, most of what has been posted against this format is constructive. I get that this is a format you came up with and you really want it to succeed, but the arguments given against it are sound. Instead of dismissing these posts as "hate", maybe you should take the time to really read them, and understand why Modern has the banlist that it does.
Ok, so you all think it will fail. Point understood. No need to bring it up ever again. Please if you don't have something constructive to say like try changing this or that don't bother posting hate for a format you have never tried.
Actually, most of what has been posted against this format is constructive. I get that this is a format you came up with and you really want it to succeed, but the arguments given against it are sound. Instead of dismissing these posts as "hate", maybe you should take the time to really read them, and understand why Modern has the banlist that it does.
I'm talking about people that state the format is garbage or terrible or whiners format. They don't have to play it, and I have been reading everything. The format will remain a restricted only format for now. Maybe there is a need for banned and restricted but I want to see where this format will go if given a chance.
And please if your here to tell me this format will fail, don't bother. Keep moving.
"Hey guys, tell me what you think about this idea I have.
...Unless you don't like it, in which case you should keep your filthy opinions to yourself."
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Context. I was replying to the OP's mentioning of Force of Will, as if that were the only solution in legacy. It isn't. My point was that legacy has a lot of solutions other than force of will.
Here's the conversation again:
If they truly were that broken they would have a stronger showing in legacy in spite of force of will.
And my reply:
Affinity doesn't bow to FoW. It does, however, bow to null rod... which doesn't exist in this format.
FoW isn't the be all of legacy.
I honestly don't know what you are talking about when you say "no answers". I found plenty
I never mentioned anything about "no answers". You are misattributing someone else's statements to me.
2) Stony silence is white
Damping matrix doesn't stop artifact lands
Or course there are solutions. Anything that mass kills artifacts is a solution. So does anything that mass kills creatures, which is relevant given that top would be unbanned and so miracles is possible.
However, those cards aren't quite as effective as null rod.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Where's Gavin Verhey when you need him?
Seriously, if you're fixing the mistakes of modern (something I strongly approve of) start by adding in every set that isn't on the reserved list. Why the hell should we have Jace but not FoF?
Agreed with this and other thoughts along those lines. Seems completely unnecessary when we already have healthy Legacy/Modern scenes that basically cover all of those bases in a well-balanced way (and aren't saddled with the inelegance of restricted cards).
I didn't create the format because I was personally upset about recent events, they had zero impact on me playing any format.
I also think the format is entirely different from both modern and legacy. Legacy has lands that produce additional mana, you have multiple ways of getting 3 mana tune 1. This format does not have nearly as many. Modern is a much slower format that the one I am suggesting because it doesn't have these cards available. Wizards perpously impimented a turn 3-4 rule. Also there are entire archetypes that can be played in the format I am suggesting that can be interacted with, without force of will.
the format has a chance to be very healthy, it may not take off but I won't just give it up this early because some people think that it will be a coin flip or that the cards are broken. If they truly were that broken they would have a stronger showing in legacy in spite of force of will.
And in response to the current restricted list, I didn't have a chance to test too much and I do see some other cards that need to be restricted but the list is going to remain the same until the next set release.
I'll keep going and trying to make the format work it's only 2-3 days in.
I've been told that's what modern is
Affinity doesn't bow to FoW. It does, however, bow to null rod... which doesn't exist in this format.
FoW isn't the be all of legacy.
It isn't just the restricted list. The fact that you have no banned cards is as big a problem. Sure, you can keep on restricting cards until decks mentioned so far no longer has a presence, but at that point your restricted list will make the format look like EDH. And it still won't solve the problem of cards that are problematic even as a one-of. What, you going to restrict cards like stone forge and hexmage as well? Artifact lands?
Whoever told you that is an just. plain. wrong. It would have been, if the ban list didn't exist.
Which is this format.
People who play vintage over legacy do so because they like broken plays. No one plays vintage because it's a balanced format. It isn't.
You just admitted that this format is broken bonkers.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Decks that run Dark Depths, Dread Return, Hypergenesis, Skullclamp, and Sword of the Meek would only need one to be effective.
Yeah I kinda realized that once I had more time to think about them. How ever I'm not going to flip my list on a whim, need to follow some structure otherwise what's the point in trying to make this more than kitchen table.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Not everything needs to be tested. People with experience in a certain subject can evaluate a proposition hypothetically.
The burden of proof is not on us to disprove every absurdity presented to us.
The only way this format works is if you have casual players playing it, but that is not how we evaluate formats. A competitive format must be interesting even when competitive minded players are actively attempting to abuse the deck building possibilities allowed within it. This format just fails under those circumstances.
Amusingly, the only saving grace of this format at all is Mental Misstep, which has no deckbuilding constraints whatsoever, so every single deck will have four. Its difficult for me to see that as a positive thing.
You can still have a restricted list of course if something turns out to be too degenerate (*cough Academy *cough*).
Actually, most of what has been posted against this format is constructive. I get that this is a format you came up with and you really want it to succeed, but the arguments given against it are sound. Instead of dismissing these posts as "hate", maybe you should take the time to really read them, and understand why Modern has the banlist that it does.
I'm talking about people that state the format is garbage or terrible or whiners format. They don't have to play it, and I have been reading everything. The format will remain a restricted only format for now. Maybe there is a need for banned and restricted but I want to see where this format will go if given a chance.
...
Except, then you just have Modern again. Which is the problem.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
"Hey guys, tell me what you think about this idea I have.
...Unless you don't like it, in which case you should keep your filthy opinions to yourself."
Okay, now I just need to get this of my chest:
Stony Silence
Damping Matrix
Just 2 of the answers I found while reading this thread. I honestly don't know what you are talking about when you say "no answers". I found plenty
Context. I was replying to the OP's mentioning of Force of Will, as if that were the only solution in legacy. It isn't. My point was that legacy has a lot of solutions other than force of will.
Here's the conversation again:
And my reply:
I never mentioned anything about "no answers". You are misattributing someone else's statements to me.
2) Stony silence is white
Damping matrix doesn't stop artifact lands
Or course there are solutions. Anything that mass kills artifacts is a solution. So does anything that mass kills creatures, which is relevant given that top would be unbanned and so miracles is possible.
However, those cards aren't quite as effective as null rod.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Sorry, this wasn't meant to be aimed specifically at you, but more at the thread as a whole
Umm...Damping Matrix was legal when (artifact land powered) Affinity was in Standard, and Affinity still got stuff banned out of it.
Modern: GW Hatebears/midrange, WGU Knightfall/evolution midrange stuff
Standard: nope
Legacy: W Death & Taxes
EDH (not Commander!): W Avacyn, Angel of Hope, GR Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, WGB Anafenza, the Foremost, WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator