Who here has played for Ante?
What rules did you use for deck construction?
What rules did you use for ante?
I've been researching this a little bit as I feel all of the ante cards in MTG are very under used, and was wondering how other's have approached playing for ante. I've done some web searching and found the 5 color forums, but I don't like the idea of a giant 250 card + deck. I just imagine it being a giant tower much like a battle of wits deck, and the format seems to have died anyway. I've seen articles mentioning playing with 3 random packs + 25 basics for ante, but that leaves out the ante cards unless you happen to get them in your packs, and really who's buying packs that old just to ante up? Personally, I have not played for ante since the days of Ice Age or maybe Chronicles. Back then you could still occasionally convince someone to play, but back then we all didn't use sleeves, and the game was cheaper so you'd grab some $25 burn or junk deck and just play for keeps for fun and most of the time you won (or lost) a basic land. (The best thing I ever won was a Regrowth). I've see people signing cards they lose (in forums and articles discussing it) but we didn't do that back in the day, or at least none of my cards are signed, but it seems to make it more personalized/fun.
I like the idea of requiring 5 colors, I sort of think the decks should consist of singleton cards (everything is restricted), I don't like the idea of anything being banned, but I do like the idea of maybe having a budget restriction to keep ante cards consistent in value. I think Chaos orb should be legal, but I don't know if anyone would play it due to the value, so then the question becomes are proxies legal? or do you have a mulligan on the ante? ie: if you ante something you really want to keep can you shuffle up, and ante 2 cards instead? What about rules on basic lands, if you ante a basic land, do you keep revealing till you find something other than a basic to make it more interesting?
I'd like to see this be an actual format, like with an official set of rules, obviously not DCI sanctioned, but sort of like the casual format EDH where I could point at a website and say there are the rules for deck construction ect, let's build it and play. I'm just trying to get suggestions and opinions.
I know there are some really broken plays that can happen with ante cards in general, but that's part of what makes it fun. By the way if you know of any stupid broken plays please post them. I'm thinking Rite of Replication a Tempest Efreet, or splinter twin it, or Dance of Many, or Mimic Vat or some other stupid shenanigans... Or you know, cards that might should be banned for stupid shenanigans.
I've played with ante, and losing an expensive card, or just a hard-to-find crucial card, to it can lead to ugliness.
I recommend taking cards of like value out of trade binders, instead, to alleviate this.
Keep in mind that ante violated gambling laws in several areas, which is one reason they stopped making them.
As for deck construction, just regularish 60 cards, many playset cards, but built with cards I wouldn't mind losing when using ante. For the suggested alternative, whatever dueling decks were on hand, with a playset of Contract from Below shoehorned in.
Cheers!
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Keep in mind that ante violated gambling laws in several areas, which is one reason they stopped making them.
I've seen this, but let's assume that it's not an issue and discuss the best way to build instead of the legalities.
A: From Robert Gutschera, Research & Development:
"Unfortunately, we probably won't print any more ante cards. We like ante in R&D, but an awful lot of the people who play Magic don't, and they're unhappy when they get an ante card (it's just a dead card for them). Ante cards just don't work in tournaments, and most people don't want to open up a booster pack and get a card that can't be played in a tournament. Also, there are legal problems in some markets with ante (there are worries it might be considered gambling).
source: http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/askwizards/0402
I see playing against 4x contract from below in a 60 card deck very unfun. I mean that could just be lightning bolts, gitaxian probes, manamorphose and grapeshots, and boom you've got a cheap deck that wins and isn't very fun. I think I like the idea of a format that's more based on playing junk cards, and is less consistent. I like the ante cards, but I think abusing them to that level would not be fun.
I recommend taking cards of like value out of trade binders, instead, to alleviate this.
Do you mean playing for junk rares? That's another way to do it I suppose, but different and still excludes the ante cards, also it doesn't make any card from your deck inaccessible during play. Or do you mean building decks with like value cards? Because I think that would be closer to the goal/idea I'm thinking about.
I think it would be cool to have something like ante league where people build limited decks with packs, but are also given an ante card at random. (All the ante cards are super cheap) so basically you could put a set of ante cards face down in opaque back sleeves and shuffle them up. When you buy your ante packs (say any three different standard packs) you pull an ante card from the stack and you can include it in your sealed deck, but this way there's not an abuse of 4x contract from below anywhere. Or maybe there are multiple sets of ante cards, so that there's a random chance of more than one person being able to use contract from below.
I remember seeing a lot of ante play back in the day. Before MtG was actually considered a TCG. People playing without sleeves, etc. People just gave up the cards no problem. It was considered a normal part of the game. Then, of course, you couldn't use the cards in tournaments and then cards were getting significant value so it would then be seen as gambling and so forth.
For me, it would be unique to play with ante decks with cheap cards. If anything then for the nostalgia factor, lol.
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I remember seeing a lot of ante play back in the day. Before MtG was actually considered a TCG. People playing without sleeves, etc. People just gave up the cards no problem. It was considered a normal part of the game. Then, of course, you couldn't use the cards in tournaments and then cards were getting significant value so it would then be seen as gambling and so forth.
For me, it would be unique to play with ante decks with cheap cards. If anything then for the nostalgia factor, lol.
Exactly, back in the beginning we knew the cards had value and there was a rumor of one guy who sleeved his entire deck and everyone I knew thought that was rediculious. How was he going to shuffle?! Lol seems silly looking back but playing with crappy cards with no sleeves directly on the floor was great. Playing for ante made it more interesting. Sure you might lose something, but you didn't have to put your best cards in your ante deck. There are plenty of almost playable cards with very low value.
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That's probably worse than those people who use wire brushes to "clean" the patina off of antique guns and other antiques. Don't do custom anything, lol. Just sleeve and carry on.
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I threw together a hybrid format including Secret Santa and Ante that we played during the holiday season, it was actually kind of fun, but it isn't ante in the traditional sense.
I also thought playing a Super Limited League with Ante involved would be fun, but no new cards reference ante so there would have to be a way to get ante cards into the pool.
I threw together a hybrid format including Secret Santa and Ante that we played during the holiday season, it was actually kind of fun, but it isn't ante in the traditional sense.
I also thought playing a Super Limited League with Ante involved would be fun, but no new cards reference ante so there would have to be a way to get ante cards into the pool.
Secret sAnte is neat for a holiday event. In response to the second item, I would suggest buying a full set or two of ante cards, putting them face down in (opaque back) sleeves, and each person that joins the league gets an ante card at random. This can be something they have to buy into, or it could be a free throw in to get them playing. Obviously the version of ante cards purchased should match this. In other words you'd go for the cheapest version if they are free, or you could opt for some that are pimp (like beta Contract from Below) and have every person pay a flat fee (say $5-6 or whatever the average cost is, or even just $1 if you use cheap ante cards), then someone could get a cool cheap oldschool card and someone else over pays for a Jeweled bird. I would suggest a smaller card pool, more like a limited event than say a whole box per person (perhaps a fat pack or some number of boosters). It also lowers the cost of entry.
I played in an ante sealed deck tourny back in like '98 during the Urza block, to be honest I kinda hated it as I wasn't very good and it sucked having to give up the best card I got that night and left with just commons/uncommons.
Yeah, in an environment where there is value to loose it is mostly a bummer, that's why the quit doing it (gambling laws aside).
In a limited environment like Cube where one person owns all the cards and the ante is more a deckbuilding feature than a value thief it can be a good time.
I did play a draft for Khans this past FNM and it was fun even if I lost all the games (my first ever draft) and even if I didn't end up with the rares I pulled (one being the U/R fetch) I at least got to get a couple rares out of it and it was fun.
I did play a draft for Khans this past FNM and it was fun even if I lost all the games (my first ever draft) and even if I didn't end up with the rares I pulled (one being the U/R fetch) I at least got to get a couple rares out of it and it was fun.
Are you talking about playing for picks? I think that's different. (Basically redrafting the rares based on the winner of the draft. Where first place picks a rare, then second and on down). I've done that once or twice, back in the original Mirodin, it's how I got my Mindslaver for my Mirrodin set I believe, but the guy who opened Chrome Mox was pretty sore about it.
You could set up a league with a limited card pool. We generally go constructed with three boosters, play matches for ante, and add a booster to the each player's league pool at for the subsequent rounds.
You may not lose anything particularly valuable money-wise, but losing something as simple as a Magma Spray from a 45 card pool hurts. Keep the league going as long or short as you like.
Or you could make it single elimination as well. With a large number of players, the winners could keep playing with the cards they gathered from the ante while fighting the winners of other rounds.
This would be a good place to add cards to the ante when a basic is added
I did play a draft for Khans this past FNM and it was fun even if I lost all the games (my first ever draft) and even if I didn't end up with the rares I pulled (one being the U/R fetch) I at least got to get a couple rares out of it and it was fun.
Are you talking about playing for picks? I think that's different. (Basically redrafting the rares based on the winner of the draft. Where first place picks a rare, then second and on down). I've done that once or twice, back in the original Mirodin, it's how I got my Mindslaver for my Mirrodin set I believe, but the guy who opened Chrome Mox was pretty sore about it.
This deck would be ridiculously unfun to play against.
Let's assume vintage restricted still applies with the exception being the ante cards are allowed and Chaos Orb is allowed. Ante cards might need to also be restricted. Contract from below > Ancestral Recall. Personally, I would not play that list in a format where I could lose those cards. Mana Crypt and LED are a little too pricey for me to potentially throw away.
Also since you ante an additional card each time you use contract, you need at least one Darkpact or Jeweled Bird in the list to make sure you don't ante the win condition. I realize you have two copies of it in there, but there are 4 contracts and Yawg's Win to replay them.
In the only format in recent years that did allow ante (5-color), Darkpact was banned for being, and I quote, "Straight-up stealing".
It basically meant that in any game where any money at all got anted, both players stopped playing the game and raced to see if the money-anteing player could find a Jeweled Bird before his opponent found a Darkpact.
The real problem I see with Ante is that the only card that really cares about anteing that at all matters in terms of being a good card is Contract from Below, and it's game-warpingly strong.
If you want to play with Ante at all, I'd suggest that the best way to do it is to build a powered Cube, and play with ante wherein the winner puts the ante'd card into their pool (and therefore the loser must replace it with a SB card or basic land). This lets you throw in CfB without being TOO degenerate (since it's a format with other Power) while still having some negative repercussion for playing it.
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In the only format in recent years that did allow ante (5-color), Darkpact was banned for being, and I quote, "Straight-up stealing".
It basically meant that in any game where any money at all got anted, both players stopped playing the game and raced to see if the money-anteing player could find a Jeweled Bird before his opponent found a Darkpact.
The real problem I see with Ante is that the only card that really cares about anteing that at all matters in terms of being a good card is Contract from Below, and it's game-warpingly strong.
If you want to play with Ante at all, I'd suggest that the best way to do it is to build a powered Cube, and play with ante wherein the winner puts the ante'd card into their pool (and therefore the loser must replace it with a SB card or basic land). This lets you throw in CfB without being TOO degenerate (since it's a format with other Power) while still having some negative repercussion for playing it.
I read a little about 5 color before I started this thread. I did not realize that dark pact had been banned in 5 color. That's actually really interesting to me, and something to definitely keep in mind.
Ante seems like a funny, fun, degenerate concept I'd love to get my friends suckered into.....I mean convinced into playing. But it would have be with cheap broken diversion decks and a drinking game.
What rules did you use for deck construction?
What rules did you use for ante?
I've been researching this a little bit as I feel all of the ante cards in MTG are very under used, and was wondering how other's have approached playing for ante. I've done some web searching and found the 5 color forums, but I don't like the idea of a giant 250 card + deck. I just imagine it being a giant tower much like a battle of wits deck, and the format seems to have died anyway. I've seen articles mentioning playing with 3 random packs + 25 basics for ante, but that leaves out the ante cards unless you happen to get them in your packs, and really who's buying packs that old just to ante up? Personally, I have not played for ante since the days of Ice Age or maybe Chronicles. Back then you could still occasionally convince someone to play, but back then we all didn't use sleeves, and the game was cheaper so you'd grab some $25 burn or junk deck and just play for keeps for fun and most of the time you won (or lost) a basic land. (The best thing I ever won was a Regrowth). I've see people signing cards they lose (in forums and articles discussing it) but we didn't do that back in the day, or at least none of my cards are signed, but it seems to make it more personalized/fun.
I like the idea of requiring 5 colors, I sort of think the decks should consist of singleton cards (everything is restricted), I don't like the idea of anything being banned, but I do like the idea of maybe having a budget restriction to keep ante cards consistent in value. I think Chaos orb should be legal, but I don't know if anyone would play it due to the value, so then the question becomes are proxies legal? or do you have a mulligan on the ante? ie: if you ante something you really want to keep can you shuffle up, and ante 2 cards instead? What about rules on basic lands, if you ante a basic land, do you keep revealing till you find something other than a basic to make it more interesting?
I'd like to see this be an actual format, like with an official set of rules, obviously not DCI sanctioned, but sort of like the casual format EDH where I could point at a website and say there are the rules for deck construction ect, let's build it and play. I'm just trying to get suggestions and opinions.
I know there are some really broken plays that can happen with ante cards in general, but that's part of what makes it fun. By the way if you know of any stupid broken plays please post them. I'm thinking Rite of Replication a Tempest Efreet, or splinter twin it, or Dance of Many, or Mimic Vat or some other stupid shenanigans... Or you know, cards that might should be banned for stupid shenanigans.
I recommend taking cards of like value out of trade binders, instead, to alleviate this.
Keep in mind that ante violated gambling laws in several areas, which is one reason they stopped making them.
As for deck construction, just regularish 60 cards, many playset cards, but built with cards I wouldn't mind losing when using ante. For the suggested alternative, whatever dueling decks were on hand, with a playset of Contract from Below shoehorned in.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
I've seen this, but let's assume that it's not an issue and discuss the best way to build instead of the legalities.
I see playing against 4x contract from below in a 60 card deck very unfun. I mean that could just be lightning bolts, gitaxian probes, manamorphose and grapeshots, and boom you've got a cheap deck that wins and isn't very fun. I think I like the idea of a format that's more based on playing junk cards, and is less consistent. I like the ante cards, but I think abusing them to that level would not be fun.
Do you mean playing for junk rares? That's another way to do it I suppose, but different and still excludes the ante cards, also it doesn't make any card from your deck inaccessible during play. Or do you mean building decks with like value cards? Because I think that would be closer to the goal/idea I'm thinking about.
I think it would be cool to have something like ante league where people build limited decks with packs, but are also given an ante card at random. (All the ante cards are super cheap) so basically you could put a set of ante cards face down in opaque back sleeves and shuffle them up. When you buy your ante packs (say any three different standard packs) you pull an ante card from the stack and you can include it in your sealed deck, but this way there's not an abuse of 4x contract from below anywhere. Or maybe there are multiple sets of ante cards, so that there's a random chance of more than one person being able to use contract from below.
For me, it would be unique to play with ante decks with cheap cards. If anything then for the nostalgia factor, lol.
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Exactly, back in the beginning we knew the cards had value and there was a rumor of one guy who sleeved his entire deck and everyone I knew thought that was rediculious. How was he going to shuffle?! Lol seems silly looking back but playing with crappy cards with no sleeves directly on the floor was great. Playing for ante made it more interesting. Sure you might lose something, but you didn't have to put your best cards in your ante deck. There are plenty of almost playable cards with very low value.
By ante for like value from a binder, I meant the prize cards, not the deckbuilding.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
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I've heard rumors of laminated power. Not Black Lotus, but Time Walk...
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My YouTube Channel:
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check it out if you want:
Secret SAnte
I also thought playing a Super Limited League with Ante involved would be fun, but no new cards reference ante so there would have to be a way to get ante cards into the pool.
Secret sAnte is neat for a holiday event. In response to the second item, I would suggest buying a full set or two of ante cards, putting them face down in (opaque back) sleeves, and each person that joins the league gets an ante card at random. This can be something they have to buy into, or it could be a free throw in to get them playing. Obviously the version of ante cards purchased should match this. In other words you'd go for the cheapest version if they are free, or you could opt for some that are pimp (like beta Contract from Below) and have every person pay a flat fee (say $5-6 or whatever the average cost is, or even just $1 if you use cheap ante cards), then someone could get a cool cheap oldschool card and someone else over pays for a Jeweled bird. I would suggest a smaller card pool, more like a limited event than say a whole box per person (perhaps a fat pack or some number of boosters). It also lowers the cost of entry.
In a limited environment like Cube where one person owns all the cards and the ante is more a deckbuilding feature than a value thief it can be a good time.
Are you talking about playing for picks? I think that's different. (Basically redrafting the rares based on the winner of the draft. Where first place picks a rare, then second and on down). I've done that once or twice, back in the original Mirodin, it's how I got my Mindslaver for my Mirrodin set I believe, but the guy who opened Chrome Mox was pretty sore about it.
You may not lose anything particularly valuable money-wise, but losing something as simple as a Magma Spray from a 45 card pool hurts. Keep the league going as long or short as you like.
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This would be a good place to add cards to the ante when a basic is added
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I guess lol
(to avoid absolute absurdity I assumed P9 are banned)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mana Crypt
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Chrome Mox
2 Tolarian Academy
12 Swamp
4 Contract from Below
4 Demonic Tutor
4 Vampiric Tutor
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Noxious Revival
2 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
This deck would be ridiculously unfun to play against.
Let's assume vintage restricted still applies with the exception being the ante cards are allowed and Chaos Orb is allowed. Ante cards might need to also be restricted. Contract from below > Ancestral Recall. Personally, I would not play that list in a format where I could lose those cards. Mana Crypt and LED are a little too pricey for me to potentially throw away.
Also since you ante an additional card each time you use contract, you need at least one Darkpact or Jeweled Bird in the list to make sure you don't ante the win condition. I realize you have two copies of it in there, but there are 4 contracts and Yawg's Win to replay them.
It basically meant that in any game where any money at all got anted, both players stopped playing the game and raced to see if the money-anteing player could find a Jeweled Bird before his opponent found a Darkpact.
The real problem I see with Ante is that the only card that really cares about anteing that at all matters in terms of being a good card is Contract from Below, and it's game-warpingly strong.
If you want to play with Ante at all, I'd suggest that the best way to do it is to build a powered Cube, and play with ante wherein the winner puts the ante'd card into their pool (and therefore the loser must replace it with a SB card or basic land). This lets you throw in CfB without being TOO degenerate (since it's a format with other Power) while still having some negative repercussion for playing it.
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I read a little about 5 color before I started this thread. I did not realize that dark pact had been banned in 5 color. That's actually really interesting to me, and something to definitely keep in mind.
Prismatic seems brutal.
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That seems like the best way to approach it in my opinion! Cheap, broken, and played for fun.