There is a card you've added that i'm really debating to put in, which is Undead Warchief, guess he plays a main role if you're able to put tokens into play.
But still the deck suffers early game with few or none cards to help by that time.
Cemetery Reaper is kind of anti-sinergic with the rest of the deck since removing creatures from your grave to just put a 2/2 token is kind of bad.
Lord of the Undead is another not cool card here as well, it's ability will not be really relevant, specially that your reanimation goes through Patriarch's Bidding and not Balthor, the Defiled (which would warrant the usage of LotU)
Another debate i have is, which one to drop Soulless One or Putrid Raptor. Raptor indeed can be cast T3 as a 4/4 and discarding reanimation material (but it's a lame topdeck), but Soulles One when reanimated or cast is an scary huge beater, closing game sometimes in 2 beats, and don't suffer from topdeck badness. Not sure, just tests will tell, but right now, i guess i would still pick Soulless One.
Finally you have too much creatures and reanimation spells, but none support. Damnation is pretty slow, even for multi, where high chances somebody will deal with it, specially those with board position gained. Also you already have a damnation card in: Noxious Ghoul.
Living Death is just another Bidding, while even on Bidding i'd just advice 3, since you won't cast it before you find a full grave waiting for you.
Cards that i find out necessary on this kind of deck is: Zombie Infestation, it allows you to put tokens into play to: a) chomp block, b) attack while you fill your grave.
Duress is something relly necessary, specially if you face someone running a hate for your deck, namely grave hate (which would shut you down pretty hard)
There is a card you've added that i'm really debating to put in, which is Undead Warchief, guess he plays a main role if you're able to put tokens into play.
He just makes everything cheaper and helps seal the deal, aggro-wise. If my graveyard shenanigans just completely fail he might still help me win. In two different ways. I feel like I have to run him.
Honestly, he's just in there to remove creatures from others' graveyards so they will not benefit from future Biddings (or Living Deaths). He gives me another dude while simultaneously might remove one of theirs down the road. The Zombie pump is just icing.
Cemetery Reaper is kind of anti-sinergic with the rest of the deck since removing creatures from your grave to just put a 2/2 token is kind of bad.
Cemetery Reaper is kind of anti-sinergic with the rest of the deck since removing creatures from your grave to just put a 2/2 token is kind of bad.
Lord of the Undead is another not cool card here as well, it's ability will not be really relevant, specially that your reanimation goes through Patriarch's Bidding and not Balthor, the Defiled (which would warrant the usage of LotU)
Well, he just provides additional options. Assuming I don't even draw a Bidding/LD, I can just recur guys more slowly, with him, Grotto or Stronghold. Redundancy = Flexibility when things aren't lining up properly. I might be able to occasionally 'grind' out a victory with them, right? And once again, the Zombie pump is just icing. Help me w/Aggro push...the Plan B, really more like Plan A, I guess..
Another debate i have is, which one to drop Soulless One or Putrid Raptor. Raptor indeed can be cast T3 as a 4/4 and discarding reanimation material (but it's a lame topdeck), but Soulles One when reanimated or cast is an scary huge beater, closing game sometimes in 2 beats, and don't suffer from topdeck badness. Not sure, just tests will tell, but right now, i guess i would still pick Soulless One.
Well, the main rason Raptor is in here is twofold. He simultaneously gives me a T3 beater (as you note) but also serves one of the deck's main strategies, filling the graveyard. Now, we've established that this won't always materialize in a game, so yeah, he is at least kinda risky in that regard. I guess I just feel like he fits so well here, overall, that he edges out most other competitors for his slot.
Soulless One is just a big-honkin' lhurgoyf that will hopefully seal the deal if he sticks. Again..if he sticks. Once more, an element of good luck involved here.
Finally you have too much creatures and reanimation spells, but none support. Damnation is pretty slow, even for multi, where high chances somebody will deal with it, specially those with board position gained. Also you already have a damnation card in: Noxious Ghoul.
That is probably true. The only thing I see to defend this build is that I basically consider Abominations (and lesser degree, the Raptors) as spells. They essentially serve to 'fetch a land' or 'put a creature in your graveyard'. They just happen to have creatures attached to them. Does that help?
Living Death is just another Bidding, while even on Bidding i'd just advice 3, since you won't cast it before you find a full grave waiting for you.
Actually, Living Death is also a Damnation (of sorts) and is sooooo much more than either Damnation or Bidding on their own. It has such a ridiculously powerful effect on the game state, many decks are just done. And with the new Noxious Ghoul tech, these cards can get an even bigger boost. (If I'm thinking it through correctly...am I?) I get all my dudes, you get none.
Cards that i find out necessary on this kind of deck is: Zombie Infestation, it allows you to put tokens into play to: a) chomp block, b) attack while you fill your grave.
Would you replace Putrid Imp with these or something else? I'm not seeing what roleplayer this would replace b/c its better at that role. Your end effect is that you end up discarding two cards instead of one (as my current options support). To me, that seems like an even steeper hill to climb.
Duress is something relly necessary, specially if you face someone running a hate for your deck, namely grave hate (which would shut you down pretty hard)
All of these are good..I'm just struggling to see what to take out. It feels like the above list is very very focused towards doing what I'm trying to do and if I start making subs it will suffer in that regard..diluted.
Also, do the above explanations change any of your suggestions? Do they strike you as 'sufficient rationale' for keeping them?
You always have solid arguments! You're one of the few guys that i love discuss deckbuilding! (you always bring nice new tricks to the table!)
About the card choices itself, my only concern about living death is that you lose creature advantage if you created it. Zombie Infestation keeps you always creating threats while discarding, and sometimes you just get ahead on board with these creatures, destroying it doesn't seems wise in that occasion.
Bidding would just raise the other creatures you control for a mass removing and potential beating, just increasing your advantage, while LD will remove all sort of advantage you did. But i guess LD is more useful on Multiplayer games, since you'll rarely have creature advantage over your opponents.
But i don't run neither, i run Balthor, the Defiled which can be recurred in case i get my reanimation plans frustrated (Grotto / Exhume), and also is faster to do the job (once i hit 4 mana, it's done). So counters or alike never screw my game, the only cards that threatens me are: Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares which exile Balthor (grave hate screws me too)
About Imp and Infestation: you believe you need to run both, specially that in this kind of deck, you'll need to dump cards into grave. Infestation is not steep to keep it out climbing the hill, it's a soft hill :D.
Infestation keeps you into the game, while reaching the reanimation condition. Since i run the Balthor in the build, 4 lands is enough to be into play, then i recycle (Polluted Mire, Barren Moor) or discard to Infestation to create creatures. That creates me Creature/Card advantage, while discarding is within my strategy.
In fact, Zombie Infestation is a card i never debate being MD, while testing you'll see how powerful it's engine is for the deck. It's alot better than LotU for example, LotU needs 3 mana to cast, and will dump 1 to retrieve plus whatever it needs to recast, it's a slow strategy.
Infestation, on the other hand, just let you dump 2 cards for free and gives you a 2/2 creature out, while filling your grave, with free mana to cast anything you want or trigger Balthor (cast Bidding).
Another thing i forgot to point is: use the cycling lands, very, very useful!
You can take a look into the Zombie Defiled deck, it's pretty much what you're looking for. If you're uncertain about cards usage, what i suggest you is, playtest, i'm certain you'll concludes the same as i about the list i came with. (we usually think the same, and i've did tons of tests!)
About Soulless One, if you don't get into grave hate decks, i believe he'll always stick, you won't put him into play in a normal fashion, but only reanimating (you can even dump 2-3 with Buried Alive, so when reanimated...god knows!)
Anyway, i'm really intended to use Warchief over Soulless One on that list, always debated over the 2, but i guess his beating power is not compared to pumping everyone else (of course it depends how many zombies you have out, so one is stronger than the other on each occasion).
Glad for your interest into Zombies! (i know that there are lot of decks that grabs your attention, but still cool to see one stick into this!)
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
Turns out, I screwed up part of my initial quoting/response.
This part:
Honestly, he's just in there to remove creatures from others' graveyards so they will not benefit from future Biddings (or Living Deaths). He gives me another dude while simultaneously might remove one of theirs down the road. The Zombie pump is just icing.
...is actually referring to Cemetery Reaper. The way I originally posted it, it made no sense (in referring to Warchief)..apologies.
Ok, moving on.
I guess I just need to try out Infestation. I worry that I discard all my hand to it, and someone just Pyroclasm or Echoing Truth or something and then I'm screwed -VS- (not running it) and doing my thing and occasionally hardcasting 3-4 casting cost dudes and they might survive a bit better. And yeah, Living Death would 'hurt' me but I will 99% of the time get enough guys back from GY I'll hardly miss them.
As I see it, it would boil down to this: Do I want a) a significantly quicker early-game (via Infestation) or b) a more gradual buildup at the expense of quicker early-game.
I've got to figure this out. There's two very solid directions I could go here..
re: Balthor. I can see the arguments, I really can. He is cheaper. One thing that bugs me about him is, frankly, he belongs in a Minion deck and half of his 'goodness' is essentially wasted here. (I could probably overlook that though..) The other ding against him (in my mind) is that it helps your opponents benefit quite a bit more than Bidding in that it gives them two different conditions to benefit from (red & black creatures) where as Tribes-only (Bidding) gives them worse odds. I mean, if they're not playing Tribal at all, they're maybe getting back 1-2 creatures at best. W/Balthor they can often 'hit the jackpot' 40% of the time and get a bunch more back. Based on these two factors, I just don't like him here, at least not OVER Bidding or Living Death (which we've established, is a multiplayer card par excellence). You guys always go on and on about Balthor and these would be my reasons against running him. He's still a really good Lord on his own merits though, I'm not denying that. (Funny..my group actually nicknamed him 'Ballchin the Defiled' but that's probably neither here nor there..)
Now, Living Deathclearly allows them to hit the jackpot as well, and so I'm a hypocrite, eh? But it has just such an atrocious power-level, I think it's probably worth it. Few cards are more satisfying to play in multiplayer than Living Death. It's just flat-out STUPID. I have to run it here or I'm doing something wrong, basically.
I'm going to take a look at the Defiled list. See what you got goin' on there..
I guess I just need to try out Infestation. I worry that I discard all my hand to it, and someone just Pyroclasm or Echoing Truth or something and then I'm screwed -VS- (not running it) and doing my thing and occasionally hardcasting 3-4 casting cost dudes and they might survive a bit better. And yeah, Living Death would 'hurt' me but I will 99% of the time get enough guys back from GY I'll hardly miss them.
If they use pyroclasm or E. Truth into your tokens, you accomplished your task! The focus of the deck is not token beatdown, these tokens are stallers (beaters just if unopposed), gaining you time to do your reanimation. If he wasted a turn just to take out a token on their way, it's a turn they didn't cast a threat, just removed a token, so turn gained.
As I see it, it would boil down to this: Do I want a) a significantly quicker early-game (via Infestation) or b) a more gradual buildup at the expense of quicker early-game.
Yeah, that's definitly a concern you must care about. Anyway, you must take care on early game, you can't pass 3-4 turn without casting anything to hold off your opponent. So even if you take the gradual build up path, you must fill up your deck with early protection, without losing the focus of the deck which is reanimation.
Balthor. I can see the arguments, I really can. He is cheaper. One thing that bugs me about him is, frankly, he belongs in a Minion deck and half of his 'goodness' is essentially wasted here. (I could probably overlook that though..) The other ding against him (in my mind) is that it helps your opponents benefit quite a bit more than Bidding in that it gives them two different conditions to benefit from (red & black creatures) where as Tribes-only (Bidding) gives them worse odds. I mean, if they're not playing Tribal at all, they're maybe getting back 1-2 creatures at best. W/Balthor they can often 'hit the jackpot' 40% of the time and get a bunch more back. Based on these two factors, I just don't like him here, at least not OVER Bidding or Living Death (which we've established, is a multiplayer card par excellence). You guys always go on and on about Balthor and these would be my reasons against running him. He's still a really good Lord on his own merits though, I'm not denying that. (Funny..my group actually nicknamed him 'Ballchin the Defiled' but that's probably neither here nor there..)
In fact, on this deck, being faster is more a concern then opponent's creature he'll revive as backdrop. Noxious Ghoul will clean the board, no matter what, so just zombies will keep into play. Being a minion is not (and will not be so soon) an effect to be relevant.
Balthor is really better than LD and Bidding. Specially if you use recursion. Killing him won't stop the threat, or countering him. While dealing with LD or Bidding is enough to shut down the deck.
Now, Living Deathclearly allows them to hit the jackpot as well, and so I'm a hypocrite, eh? But it has just such an atrocious power-level, I think it's probably worth it. Few cards are more satisfying to play in multiplayer than Living Death. It's just flat-out STUPID. I have to run it here or I'm doing something wrong, basically.
I agree, LD must be very cool to play in Multi (just used it on vs), but i have no doubt about efficience of Balthor over these (LD and Bidding) on this deck.
If they use pyroclasm or E. Truth into your tokens, you accomplished your task! The focus of the deck is not token beatdown, these tokens are stallers (beaters just if unopposed), gaining you time to do your reanimation. If he wasted a turn just to take out a token on their way, it's a turn they didn't cast a threat, just removed a token, so turn gained.
Yeah, that's definitly a concern you must care about. Anyway, you must take care on early game, you can't pass 3-4 turn without casting anything to hold off your opponent. So even if you take the gradual build up path, you must fill up your deck with early protection, without losing the focus of the deck which is reanimation.
OK NOW I see the true value of the tokens..they're throwaway, basically. Gotcha. You convinced me.
In fact, on this deck, being faster is more a concern then opponent's creature he'll revive as backdrop. Noxious Ghoul will clean the board, no matter what, so just zombies will keep into play. Being a minion is not (and will not be so soon) an effect to be relevant.
Balthor is really better than LD and Bidding. Specially if you use recursion. Killing him won't stop the threat, or countering him. While dealing with LD or Bidding is enough to shut down the deck.
True. I'll give him a shot. I like that he's reusable quite a lot...that will work well here, given what else I'm running.
Would you replace all 4 Biddings w/Balthors? I hate dead cards. Some other 'tricks' might be a better sub for some of them. I do like Darkness an awful lot but I'm sure there are better choices here. I don't see a ton of value in the early-discard options like Duress b/c I'm planning on ignoring early-game pretty much altogether. Am I just a complete moron for doing this? Darkness is fun in that it just totally shocks. No one ever expects it. It will buy me a turn, which might be all I need to get to my reanimator card. But maybe Dark Ritual or Night's Whisper would be better choice..?
Would you replace all 4 Biddings w/Balthors? I hate dead cards. Some other 'tricks' might be a better sub for some of them. I do like Darkness an awful lot but I'm sure there are better choices here. I don't see a ton of value in the early-discard options like Duress b/c I'm planning on ignoring early-game pretty much altogether. Am I just a complete moron for doing this? Darkness is fun in that it just totally shocks. No one ever expects it. It will buy me a turn, which might be all I need to get to my reanimator card. But maybe Dark Ritual or Night's Whisper would be better choice..?
Duress, no doubt about it. First turn Duress takes out cards like Leyline of the Void, Relic of Progenitus, and Tormod's Crypt, just to mention a few threats, that's pretty much end game for you if they set this down, since it'll turn your deck into a common slow zombie deck. It's even valuable mid-late game.
Grave hate is pretty much your biggest concern, since even swarm you can deal trading a token for some their creatures, terroring some other of his creatures...you can slow them down, so Fog won't be really necessary to help your game. Duress pretty much impacts the game into your favor alot more.
3/2 flying, 5/4, 3/2, 7/3 regenerate, and a clean board. on 3rd turn. (potencial 18 damage per attack).
I know, i know, god hand and unopposed, but just to show up how Ritual can change tides here.
Night's Whisper / Sign in Blood are great cards if you don't add Buried Alive into your deck, so you change a little your game pattern from buring creatures directly from your deck, to dumping through discard outlets.
Oh, and i took your advice, Warchief is MD into Soulless One place's....so much better! Spreading threats, not just focusing into one. Thx!
The way this deck is supposed to work is like this: Turn 1, play a swamp, get a Carrion Feeder out. Turn 2, either accelerate to a 3CMC and another Carrion Feeder, or a 4CMC Grave Pact. After that, just try to set up some mana and stay alive. As long as you get 2 Drowned Catacombs out, either by Tutoring them or by luck of the draw, sack all your existing zombies to Carrion Feeder, Traumatize your own deck, and then cast Patriarch's Bidding. You call out 'zombie' while your opponent(s) get to call out whatever they like. It won't matter much because chances are that a Noxious Ghoul or 2 were in your graveyard when you cast Patriarch. On a test game I pulled out 2 Noxious Ghouls and 14 other zombies, killing any opponent's creature with 28 toughness or lower, all on turn 5. I was able to attack next turn to a single creature blocking with some uber, deathtouching zombies.
Well, it's not the right place to post it. This is a Zombie thread only, like the other sticky thread Reanimator, MUC or Elves. Since your deck is none of these, i suggest you to post it into the regular casual forum, not on sticky threads of specific themes, guess you'll find more help there.
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
Not only is this deck competitive again, it's absolutely feared. The combo of Grave Pact and Call to the Grave is devastating to anyone but those who can produce many creatures very quickly, and even that falls to a well-timed Noxious Ghoul.
With the added Sunken Ruins, Traumatize is now hardly ever a dead draw, allowing Demonic Tutor to give you a more apt card when you need it.
And finally, with your own graveyard being the focus of Traumatize and the follow up Patriarch's Bidding, losing zombies left and right in order to keep your opponent's creature count low (via Grave Pact) or block your opponent's attacks really means nothing to you as long as you keep your head straight and don't over-do it.
I'm really in love with this deck. I know some of the cards are hard to get or are pricey (Demonic Tutor/Drowned Catacomb), but I urge you to at least proxy them and see how this plays. It's very evil in a very delicious way.
Please let me know what you think. I crave attention.
This is the deck that I run casually with my friends. I could use more cards for it, such as more Æther Vial" target="blank">Æther Vials or Undead Warchief's. It just all comes down to $$. But it's fun running this deck. Most of the times I'm normally killed off first in my friends multiplayer games when they see I've pulled out the Pouch o' Zombies (I carry the deck in a dice bag).
I know people, as soon as they see the cloudpost, wonder why. I use them, even with their draw back, because they give great boosts in mana and now dont even have to worry about the mana burn. I'd like to get more viles in the deck (wished they would have been reprinted in Exiled box). I've noticed people don't care so much for Death Baron but I love him cause it gives my opponents another affect to worry about. Victimize, it's such a great card. Yes it has its draw back, but you use it to get back the pumpers and it doesn't matter if theyre tapped. Dash Hopes, Undertaker and Syphon Soul are in there because I really couldnt find anything to fill some spots. I would probably try Corrupt or Consume Spirit but I dont often get to win with Shepard of Rot.
Please feel free to critic. I'd like to make this better if possible.
Since my friend has really shi-ty internet, I'll be posting some of his decks for him. He's been left behind a little, what with me and the other magic-playing friend ordering cards, while he's only had money for boosters. For the most part, my meta's decks have been getting more and more uber, and so let's boost his favorite deck, shall we? He'll really appreciate it.
He hasn't had much of a chance to really get playsets, since he relies on boosters, and I'm gonna get back to you guys when I find out what kinda direction he wants to take the deck. thanks for the help guys.
hey I was wondering if I could get some help on this aggro deck I would like to build one day.
[card]17 Swamp
3 Unholy Grotto
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Carnophage
4 Zombie Master
4 Festering Goblin
4 Stromgald Crusader
4 Lord of the Undead
3 Undead Warchief
3 Death Baron
4 Dark Ritual
4 Terror
4 Consume Spirit[/card]
If you want aggro, go suicidal, it's the only viable aggro zombies around. Lords are unnecessary, except for Zombie Master for regen and specially evasion. Your creatures will start the game beef enough, with no need of slow lords for pump.
This is the zombie deck I've been playing with for a few years now. It's just a classic casual deck. Feel free to bash on it if you wish as the entire deck is commons with the exception of 2x Undead Warchief. I built it as an online deck and it's been so effective I've kept it around.
Once you see how everything works in conjunction with each other you can see how you don't need expensive cards to make an effective deck. Feel free to offers ideas towards it to make it better.
Once you see how everything works in conjunction with each other you can see how you don't need expensive cards to make an effective deck.
This is one of the my favorite things about the zombie tribe! Zombies have gotten some love in the rare department, but they also have some ridiculous commons/uncommons. This is one of the things that turned me onto the tribe originally. I could go to my card shop, and rip through boxes of commons and put together a powerful zombie deck without having to single buy ten-dollar singles. If what you have got here is working for you, and you don't feel investment is necessary, then by all means have fun with what you've got!
One thing that I see off the bat is the blending of a few different deck ideas here. Halted Asylum has some pretty streamlined builds on the first page of the thread. I recommend taking a look at any one of them, and try to work your deck accordingly. You have the Shepherd/Polluter kill going but also the Vengeful Dead/Warchief/beatdown mode. I think that, while both are worthy strategies, you should pick one and stay with it. If you choose the Gempalm/Shepherd route (which would maybe work best considering your desired budget and 1-drop count) you can drop the Warchiefs and Vengeful Dead in favor of some acceleration and support to protect your combo. The deck below is pretty budget, an update/variation on Halted's "Zombies of Rot," that contains very few rares (2 of which are oldies @ 50 cents a piece). Dead and Breakfast because your creatures eat your creatures, life totals, and graveyard! ;]
Check the main page for some tips. Another trick, if your looking for some fresh cards, is to search Gatherer for type: zombie, and then by whatever rarity (common etc.) you want to look through. Good luck!
You deck is JAM packed with zombie lords! While it is pretty exiciting to watch your zombies grow, I would first recommend pick the lords in your meta/casual group that seem to win the game most and try to work around 2 of them. For instance, you run 4 of each a lord who returns creature cards from your graveyard to your hand to replay them, but then you also run a lord who removes creatures in your graveyard from the game. See what I mean? Try sticking with two of them and hone your strategy a bit more. Do you want to recycle zombies? Eat them out of the grave?
Because you run 4 Lord of the Dead (the route it seems this deck could easily be taken) you should look into Nameless Inversion. Your deck is missing some necessary spot removal and this card is great for that. Counts as a zombie and can be drawn with Defiler. Recycles with your Lord and Grotto. And, should you choose to go Lord/Warchief, it's like a B Lightning Bolt. You want to be able to get rid of creatures your opponent plays, not just hope you can mass enough lords to bowl them over.
Dark Ritual? This deck is hungry for some mana acceleration and would benefit with the addition of 4 of these. They are super effective. On a similar note, I think it would be wise to thin out the mana curve in your deck somewhat. You curve looks like:
You need to consider that, on turn two, the most creatures you can have hit the board is one (the only being Shepherd). Cycling Gempalm isn't really effective yet with nothing on the board. Most often, your first play of the game is going to be on turn three. That's a lot of time to wait around! Mix in some cost-effective one-drops like Carnophage, Carrion Feeder, Festering Goblin etc. in place some lords you would consider tossing on the chopping block. You def want to have some aggressive plays early on and build for Shepherd/Gempalm, not wait to mass lords then bank on them for the win. Wrath of God? Damnation? :|
Not sure about Cloudpost here. What are you going to do with so much colorless mana? This deck as is is pretty black intensive. There are 52 black mana symbols among your permanents. Very few of which require more than one colorless mana. Cloudpost just seems unnecessary with so much black mana requirements. Again, Dark Ritual ;].
Your deck concept is great, however, try and streamline it some. Smooth your mana curve out a bit, toss in some acceleration/disruption and I think you'll like the changes. Obviously check the mainpage for some examples, but likewise, throw in what you think will rock your meta/friends! Goodluck, let us know the changes if you decide to make any!
Desert Fox and Mad Hatter: i agree with Dumbledork advices. Maybe just not Dark Ritual for the lack of purpose for a burst of mana vs card disadvantage, but everything else is pretty much the way i think you should follow.
General tips:
a) ALWAYS care about Artifact/Enchantments dealing MD or you risk your game 1 every game (Duress and such chosen quality discard), AND always pack creature REMOVAL md, the only exception is if you only face creatureless decks, which is a VERY RARE situation.
b) If you go with slow cards, find a way to stall board 'til you drop your threats, usually: mass removal, spot removal, targeted discard, stalling enchantments/artifacts....
c) Never overload a cmc drop (3 is usually the overloaded cmc on Zombies, 'cause of Lords), this will make your deck stall many times, try to smooth the drops into your deck. Also, if able, try to scale down your cmc: 16-1cmc, 12-2 cmc, 8-3cmc and so on..this will make you to be a threat all the time (you can "even" them as well).
Hope been helpful.
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
Yo Halted, check my switches on your Rot build a couple posts back and let me know what you think... The deck has been pretty pro (under heading CASUAL, fun, no power 9) on MWS, I went 20-4-2 over the past couple of days (at work >.<). Nice build you've got going, just made a few minor changes. Is the new Piranha Marsh (even as a 2-of) too slow for this deck? Sometimes, 1 life loss really does help this deck.
Second, to all brain gorgers that frequent this thread, Zendikar has given us a cool new zombie quest to consider in deck designs. Quest for the Gravelord (the token that goes with this is dirrrty). Anyone try any tricks with this yet? Seems it needs a dedicated deck built around it, with some form of evasion so he can't be blocked each turn. Carrion Feeder, Festering Goblin, good sac creatures. Something to think about...
Also, Mindless Null? T.T They printed a zombie worse than Scathe Zombies?! Atleast we got one decent (possibly?) edition to our tribe :]
I like your tweak, i just think you should make few changes:
-2 Tendrils Of Corruption: the deck is pretty much 1-2 cmc drops, overcomitting mana base just to cast a worth Tendrils isn't very nice, i'd drop it for sure.
-4 Barren Moor: barren moor is a nice CA for slow or discard based decks, but inside decks that wants to go fast, raising chances for "comes into play tapped" lands is a non-go. You're already running Sign in Blood, which is cool, and enough for CA.
+2 Piranha Marsh (as 2-of seems ok)
+4 Critter: fit some powerful 1-2 cmc creature here.
That's all about it, i like the rest of the deck you did.
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
Thanks Halted. The Tendrils haven't played a huge role in any win. I've added the two Piranha Marsh, however, is it safe to run 18 lands? Should I up that count to 19-20? If I had some Sarcomancy I think they'd be nice, but alas, I've traded them off long ago. tt Cannot justify spending 30$ on a set right now, seeing as I just bought tons of Zen.
Where this deck started as mostly aggro/it's turned back into aggro/control. I'm thinking favoring the ctrl and adding Disfigureas a 2-4 of. The biggest threat to this deck has been other creatures (the lifeloss being unpreventable/counterable)... Not being able to get through/kill them off to get ahead in the life race really stinks. Using it with Rotting Giant might be nice too. Hymn to Tourach? Would give me a 2-1 advantage over my opponent and be useful against non-creature decks too. The creature element of this deck is strong, and I don't want to lose it, however, the control is just as vital at keeping them safe.
EDIT: Deck; formerly Dead & breakfast, now Corpse Control :]
With the curve so cheap, things are way more accessible than they were before. I couldn't justify keeping 18 swamp and upped to 14. Just seemed like an accident waiting to happen with so few. Let me know what you think.
Yeah, when you run Dark Ritual, 18 is fine for a 2 cmc deck, some decks on this same cmc rate run 16 + D. Ritual, or 18 with Fetchs (to thin) + D. Ritual.
I wouldn't take the control route, but that's me. More creatures: bigger Shepherd of Rot, bigger Gempalm Polluter, not just that, you keep the pressure into opponent's life points.
Alright, it's a done deal. 4x Sarcomancy in the big brown truck for me. I couldn't bear not having a playset of one of the greatest zombies >< I have been testing this morning with the changes and have been nothing but happy. Here is the updated deck.
Dropped Piranha Marsh for more speed. It often happens that you draw one land in an opener here, and with Ritual, it's not bad, but with Marsh it's a mulligan everytime. I like my lands doing tricks, but this deck needs speed. Bye Piranha marsh :[
Fast, effective, and cheap zombies.
EDIT:
-4 Barren Moor: barren moor is a nice CA for slow or discard based decks, but inside decks that wants to go fast, raising chances for "comes into play tapped" lands is a non-go. You're already running Sign in Blood, which is cool, and enough for CA.
Perhaps the sample Rot deck should be changed then? >< This is similar to the rot deck you've got posted with a few tweaks. It runs pretty darn smootheats life totals for breakfast. Try something like this perhaps? ;] Thanks for the help Halted.
There is a card you've added that i'm really debating to put in, which is Undead Warchief, guess he plays a main role if you're able to put tokens into play.
But still the deck suffers early game with few or none cards to help by that time.
Cemetery Reaper is kind of anti-sinergic with the rest of the deck since removing creatures from your grave to just put a 2/2 token is kind of bad.
Lord of the Undead is another not cool card here as well, it's ability will not be really relevant, specially that your reanimation goes through Patriarch's Bidding and not Balthor, the Defiled (which would warrant the usage of LotU)
Another debate i have is, which one to drop Soulless One or Putrid Raptor. Raptor indeed can be cast T3 as a 4/4 and discarding reanimation material (but it's a lame topdeck), but Soulles One when reanimated or cast is an scary huge beater, closing game sometimes in 2 beats, and don't suffer from topdeck badness. Not sure, just tests will tell, but right now, i guess i would still pick Soulless One.
Finally you have too much creatures and reanimation spells, but none support. Damnation is pretty slow, even for multi, where high chances somebody will deal with it, specially those with board position gained. Also you already have a damnation card in: Noxious Ghoul.
Living Death is just another Bidding, while even on Bidding i'd just advice 3, since you won't cast it before you find a full grave waiting for you.
Cards that i find out necessary on this kind of deck is:
Zombie Infestation, it allows you to put tokens into play to: a) chomp block, b) attack while you fill your grave.
Buried Alive, it let you dig for selective creatures to put into your grave, namely Noxious Ghoul/Undead Warchief (with an awsome sinergy with the tokens produced). Another alternative for B.ALive is running CA with cards like Sign in Blood / Night's Whisper.
Duress is something relly necessary, specially if you face someone running a hate for your deck, namely grave hate (which would shut you down pretty hard)
That will change the deck on this pattern:
-4 Lord of the Undead
-4 Cemetery Reaper
-4 Putrid Raptor
-2 Damnation
-2 Living Death
-1 Patriarch's Bidding
+4 Zombie Infestation
+3-4 Buried Alive / Sign in Blood
+4 Duress
+4 Doom Blade
If you're able to run Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Fitlh is a really nice discard. Now if you're able to run Blood Cryt (or alike), Anger is another nice option.
That's it, hope being helpful.
He just makes everything cheaper and helps seal the deal, aggro-wise. If my graveyard shenanigans just completely fail he might still help me win. In two different ways. I feel like I have to run him.
Honestly, he's just in there to remove creatures from others' graveyards so they will not benefit from future Biddings (or Living Deaths). He gives me another dude while simultaneously might remove one of theirs down the road. The Zombie pump is just icing.
Cemetery Reaper is kind of anti-sinergic with the rest of the deck since removing creatures from your grave to just put a 2/2 token is kind of bad.
Well, he just provides additional options. Assuming I don't even draw a Bidding/LD, I can just recur guys more slowly, with him, Grotto or Stronghold. Redundancy = Flexibility when things aren't lining up properly. I might be able to occasionally 'grind' out a victory with them, right? And once again, the Zombie pump is just icing. Help me w/Aggro push...the Plan B, really more like Plan A, I guess..
Well, the main rason Raptor is in here is twofold. He simultaneously gives me a T3 beater (as you note) but also serves one of the deck's main strategies, filling the graveyard. Now, we've established that this won't always materialize in a game, so yeah, he is at least kinda risky in that regard. I guess I just feel like he fits so well here, overall, that he edges out most other competitors for his slot.
Soulless One is just a big-honkin' lhurgoyf that will hopefully seal the deal if he sticks. Again..if he sticks. Once more, an element of good luck involved here.
That is probably true. The only thing I see to defend this build is that I basically consider Abominations (and lesser degree, the Raptors) as spells. They essentially serve to 'fetch a land' or 'put a creature in your graveyard'. They just happen to have creatures attached to them. Does that help?
Actually, Living Death is also a Damnation (of sorts) and is sooooo much more than either Damnation or Bidding on their own. It has such a ridiculously powerful effect on the game state, many decks are just done. And with the new Noxious Ghoul tech, these cards can get an even bigger boost. (If I'm thinking it through correctly...am I?) I get all my dudes, you get none.
Would you replace Putrid Imp with these or something else? I'm not seeing what roleplayer this would replace b/c its better at that role. Your end effect is that you end up discarding two cards instead of one (as my current options support). To me, that seems like an even steeper hill to climb.
All of these are good..I'm just struggling to see what to take out. It feels like the above list is very very focused towards doing what I'm trying to do and if I start making subs it will suffer in that regard..diluted.
Also, do the above explanations change any of your suggestions? Do they strike you as 'sufficient rationale' for keeping them?
Always.
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You always have solid arguments! You're one of the few guys that i love discuss deckbuilding! (you always bring nice new tricks to the table!)
About the card choices itself, my only concern about living death is that you lose creature advantage if you created it. Zombie Infestation keeps you always creating threats while discarding, and sometimes you just get ahead on board with these creatures, destroying it doesn't seems wise in that occasion.
Bidding would just raise the other creatures you control for a mass removing and potential beating, just increasing your advantage, while LD will remove all sort of advantage you did. But i guess LD is more useful on Multiplayer games, since you'll rarely have creature advantage over your opponents.
But i don't run neither, i run Balthor, the Defiled which can be recurred in case i get my reanimation plans frustrated (Grotto / Exhume), and also is faster to do the job (once i hit 4 mana, it's done). So counters or alike never screw my game, the only cards that threatens me are: Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares which exile Balthor (grave hate screws me too)
About Imp and Infestation: you believe you need to run both, specially that in this kind of deck, you'll need to dump cards into grave. Infestation is not steep to keep it out climbing the hill, it's a soft hill :D.
Infestation keeps you into the game, while reaching the reanimation condition. Since i run the Balthor in the build, 4 lands is enough to be into play, then i recycle (Polluted Mire, Barren Moor) or discard to Infestation to create creatures. That creates me Creature/Card advantage, while discarding is within my strategy.
In fact, Zombie Infestation is a card i never debate being MD, while testing you'll see how powerful it's engine is for the deck. It's alot better than LotU for example, LotU needs 3 mana to cast, and will dump 1 to retrieve plus whatever it needs to recast, it's a slow strategy.
Infestation, on the other hand, just let you dump 2 cards for free and gives you a 2/2 creature out, while filling your grave, with free mana to cast anything you want or trigger Balthor (cast Bidding).
Another thing i forgot to point is: use the cycling lands, very, very useful!
You can take a look into the Zombie Defiled deck, it's pretty much what you're looking for. If you're uncertain about cards usage, what i suggest you is, playtest, i'm certain you'll concludes the same as i about the list i came with. (we usually think the same, and i've did tons of tests!)
About Soulless One, if you don't get into grave hate decks, i believe he'll always stick, you won't put him into play in a normal fashion, but only reanimating (you can even dump 2-3 with Buried Alive, so when reanimated...god knows!)
Anyway, i'm really intended to use Warchief over Soulless One on that list, always debated over the 2, but i guess his beating power is not compared to pumping everyone else (of course it depends how many zombies you have out, so one is stronger than the other on each occasion).
Glad for your interest into Zombies! (i know that there are lot of decks that grabs your attention, but still cool to see one stick into this!)
This part:
...is actually referring to Cemetery Reaper. The way I originally posted it, it made no sense (in referring to Warchief)..apologies.
Ok, moving on.
I guess I just need to try out Infestation. I worry that I discard all my hand to it, and someone just Pyroclasm or Echoing Truth or something and then I'm screwed -VS- (not running it) and doing my thing and occasionally hardcasting 3-4 casting cost dudes and they might survive a bit better. And yeah, Living Death would 'hurt' me but I will 99% of the time get enough guys back from GY I'll hardly miss them.
As I see it, it would boil down to this: Do I want a) a significantly quicker early-game (via Infestation) or b) a more gradual buildup at the expense of quicker early-game.
I've got to figure this out. There's two very solid directions I could go here..
re: Balthor. I can see the arguments, I really can. He is cheaper. One thing that bugs me about him is, frankly, he belongs in a Minion deck and half of his 'goodness' is essentially wasted here. (I could probably overlook that though..) The other ding against him (in my mind) is that it helps your opponents benefit quite a bit more than Bidding in that it gives them two different conditions to benefit from (red & black creatures) where as Tribes-only (Bidding) gives them worse odds. I mean, if they're not playing Tribal at all, they're maybe getting back 1-2 creatures at best. W/Balthor they can often 'hit the jackpot' 40% of the time and get a bunch more back. Based on these two factors, I just don't like him here, at least not OVER Bidding or Living Death (which we've established, is a multiplayer card par excellence). You guys always go on and on about Balthor and these would be my reasons against running him. He's still a really good Lord on his own merits though, I'm not denying that. (Funny..my group actually nicknamed him 'Ballchin the Defiled' but that's probably neither here nor there..)
Now, Living Death clearly allows them to hit the jackpot as well, and so I'm a hypocrite, eh? But it has just such an atrocious power-level, I think it's probably worth it. Few cards are more satisfying to play in multiplayer than Living Death. It's just flat-out STUPID. I have to run it here or I'm doing something wrong, basically.
I'm going to take a look at the Defiled list. See what you got goin' on there..
Thanks man.
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No problem at all!
If they use pyroclasm or E. Truth into your tokens, you accomplished your task! The focus of the deck is not token beatdown, these tokens are stallers (beaters just if unopposed), gaining you time to do your reanimation. If he wasted a turn just to take out a token on their way, it's a turn they didn't cast a threat, just removed a token, so turn gained.
Yeah, that's definitly a concern you must care about. Anyway, you must take care on early game, you can't pass 3-4 turn without casting anything to hold off your opponent. So even if you take the gradual build up path, you must fill up your deck with early protection, without losing the focus of the deck which is reanimation.
In fact, on this deck, being faster is more a concern then opponent's creature he'll revive as backdrop. Noxious Ghoul will clean the board, no matter what, so just zombies will keep into play. Being a minion is not (and will not be so soon) an effect to be relevant.
Balthor is really better than LD and Bidding. Specially if you use recursion. Killing him won't stop the threat, or countering him. While dealing with LD or Bidding is enough to shut down the deck.
I agree, LD must be very cool to play in Multi (just used it on vs), but i have no doubt about efficience of Balthor over these (LD and Bidding) on this deck.
Cool, i really hope you enjoy it! You know that, any doubt, any tip from playing the card, i'll be glad to help you!
Try both lists and see what fits better for your desire.
OK NOW I see the true value of the tokens..they're throwaway, basically. Gotcha. You convinced me.
True. I'll give him a shot. I like that he's reusable quite a lot...that will work well here, given what else I'm running.
Would you replace all 4 Biddings w/Balthors? I hate dead cards. Some other 'tricks' might be a better sub for some of them. I do like Darkness an awful lot but I'm sure there are better choices here. I don't see a ton of value in the early-discard options like Duress b/c I'm planning on ignoring early-game pretty much altogether. Am I just a complete moron for doing this? Darkness is fun in that it just totally shocks. No one ever expects it. It will buy me a turn, which might be all I need to get to my reanimator card. But maybe Dark Ritual or Night's Whisper would be better choice..?
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Yeah, just 4 Balthor, the Defiled and maybe 2 Exhume / Reanimate as reanimation outlets.
Duress, no doubt about it. First turn Duress takes out cards like Leyline of the Void, Relic of Progenitus, and Tormod's Crypt, just to mention a few threats, that's pretty much end game for you if they set this down, since it'll turn your deck into a common slow zombie deck. It's even valuable mid-late game.
Grave hate is pretty much your biggest concern, since even swarm you can deal trading a token for some their creatures, terroring some other of his creatures...you can slow them down, so Fog won't be really necessary to help your game. Duress pretty much impacts the game into your favor alot more.
Dark Ritual is indeed a must have into the deck.
Swamp, Putrid Imp
Swamp, Dark Ritual, Balthor
Swamp, dump Noxious Ghoul, Undead Warchief, Twisted Abomination, and activate Balthor
3/2 flying, 5/4, 3/2, 7/3 regenerate, and a clean board. on 3rd turn. (potencial 18 damage per attack).
I know, i know, god hand and unopposed, but just to show up how Ritual can change tides here.
Night's Whisper / Sign in Blood are great cards if you don't add Buried Alive into your deck, so you change a little your game pattern from buring creatures directly from your deck, to dumping through discard outlets.
Oh, and i took your advice, Warchief is MD into Soulless One place's....so much better! Spreading threats, not just focusing into one. Thx!
Hope being helpful.
has anyone tried breaking Tortured Existence in a zombie deck? One way i see it is to use Cycling/Land-Cycling Zombies to gain card advantage then use Tortured Existence to bring them back to your hand and do it again. But the key is to abuse Tortured Existence's cost/drawback. Maybe with Madness Zombies? Possibly with Unearth Zombies?
Then we can always use the graveyard as a big tutor with the help of the dredge mechanic (only if they had zombie dredgers)
Did I mention that we get tons of card advantage from this? Maybe run some control spells to back up the undead?
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
What do you guys think of this deck?
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Cemetery Reaper
4 Death Baron
3 Lord of the Undead
3 Noxious Ghoul
4 Stillmoon Cavalier
4 Dark Ritual
3 Demonic Tutor
2 Patriarch's Bidding
2 Traumatize
Enchantments
3 Call to the Grave
3 Grave Pact
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Sunken Ruins
13 Swamp
The way this deck is supposed to work is like this: Turn 1, play a swamp, get a Carrion Feeder out. Turn 2, either accelerate to a 3CMC and another Carrion Feeder, or a 4CMC Grave Pact. After that, just try to set up some mana and stay alive. As long as you get 2 Drowned Catacombs out, either by Tutoring them or by luck of the draw, sack all your existing zombies to Carrion Feeder, Traumatize your own deck, and then cast Patriarch's Bidding. You call out 'zombie' while your opponent(s) get to call out whatever they like. It won't matter much because chances are that a Noxious Ghoul or 2 were in your graveyard when you cast Patriarch. On a test game I pulled out 2 Noxious Ghouls and 14 other zombies, killing any opponent's creature with 28 toughness or lower, all on turn 5. I was able to attack next turn to a single creature blocking with some uber, deathtouching zombies.
Well, it's not the right place to post it. This is a Zombie thread only, like the other sticky thread Reanimator, MUC or Elves. Since your deck is none of these, i suggest you to post it into the regular casual forum, not on sticky threads of specific themes, guess you'll find more help there.
Not only is this deck competitive again, it's absolutely feared. The combo of Grave Pact and Call to the Grave is devastating to anyone but those who can produce many creatures very quickly, and even that falls to a well-timed Noxious Ghoul.
With the added Sunken Ruins, Traumatize is now hardly ever a dead draw, allowing Demonic Tutor to give you a more apt card when you need it.
And finally, with your own graveyard being the focus of Traumatize and the follow up Patriarch's Bidding, losing zombies left and right in order to keep your opponent's creature count low (via Grave Pact) or block your opponent's attacks really means nothing to you as long as you keep your head straight and don't over-do it.
I'm really in love with this deck. I know some of the cards are hard to get or are pricey (Demonic Tutor/Drowned Catacomb), but I urge you to at least proxy them and see how this plays. It's very evil in a very delicious way.
Please let me know what you think. I crave attention.
Creatures
2x Undead Warchief
3x Lord of the Undead
4x Cemetery Reaper
4x Death Baron
4x Grave Defiler
4x Gempalm Polluter
1x Skirk Ridge Exhumer
4x Shepard of Rot
2x Undertaker
3x Dash Hopes
2x Demonic Tutor
2x Stitch Together
2x Victimize
2x Zombify
1x Syphon Soul
Artifacts
1x Æther Vial
3x Lotus Petal
4x Cloudpost
3x Unholy Grotto
17x Swamp
I know people, as soon as they see the cloudpost, wonder why. I use them, even with their draw back, because they give great boosts in mana and now dont even have to worry about the mana burn. I'd like to get more viles in the deck (wished they would have been reprinted in Exiled box). I've noticed people don't care so much for Death Baron but I love him cause it gives my opponents another affect to worry about. Victimize, it's such a great card. Yes it has its draw back, but you use it to get back the pumpers and it doesn't matter if theyre tapped. Dash Hopes, Undertaker and Syphon Soul are in there because I really couldnt find anything to fill some spots. I would probably try Corrupt or Consume Spirit but I dont often get to win with Shepard of Rot.
Please feel free to critic. I'd like to make this better if possible.
Mono Konda| Sakashima| Yahenni| Ashling| Selvala|C Karn
Guilds Grand Arbiter| Meren| Gisa & Geralf| Scorpion God| Omnath| Sisay| Karlov| Avacyn| Jhoira v2| Rashmi|
Shards WUB Oloro|GWU Roon|RGW Jurassic Park|UBR Nekusar|BRG Kresh|
Clans RWU Narset|WBR Vampires|BGW Doran|UBG Muldrotha|URG Animar|
4-Colors GWUB Atraxa|BRGWSaskia|RGWU Hydra Hug| UBRGYidris|WUBRBreya|
5-Color WUBRG Super Friends
Extra Decks Titania| Taigam| Locust God| Cats| Tishana| Kumena| Squirrels| Slimefoot} Baron|RGW Samut|UBR Pirates|UBR Mairsil| WUBRG Ramos|
Also, do your best to keep it fairly budget.
1 Noxious Ghoul
1 Corpse Harvester
1 Soulless One
1 Dirge of Dread
2 shepherd of rot
3 vengeful dead
2 dross crocodile
2 lord of the undead
2 deathmark prelate
2 frightshroud courier
1 nantuko shade
1 twisted abomination
3 gempalm polluter
1 corpse connoisseur
1 putrid raptor
2 infernal caretaker
1 Severed Legion
1 dead ringers
1 footbottom feast
1 underworld dreams
2 Sinister Strength
1 midnight ritual
2 eradicate
1 feeding frenzy
1 clutch of undeath
1 shade's form
He hasn't had much of a chance to really get playsets, since he relies on boosters, and I'm gonna get back to you guys when I find out what kinda direction he wants to take the deck. thanks for the help guys.
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
[CARD]17 Swamp
3 Unholy Grotto
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Carnophage
4 Zombie Master
4 Festering Goblin
4 Stromgald Crusader
4 Lord of the Undead
3 Undead Warchief
3 Death Baron
4 Dark Ritual
4 Terror
4 Consume Spirit[/CARD]
Karn isn't a Planeswalker anymore. Get over it.
I was wrong.
If you want aggro, go suicidal, it's the only viable aggro zombies around. Lords are unnecessary, except for Zombie Master for regen and specially evasion. Your creatures will start the game beef enough, with no need of slow lords for pump.
04 Mutavault
04 Bloodstained Mire
03 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
10 Swamp
04 Carnophage
04 Sarcomancy
04 Wretched Anurid
04 Rotting Giant
04 Gempalm Polluter
03 Zombie Master
04 AEther Vial
04 Dark Ritual
04 Sign in Blood
04 Snuff Out
Just remember to use Duress and gravehate on sideboard.
Hope been helpful.
2x Undead Warchief
4x Carrion Feeder
4x Gempalm Polluter
4x Maggot Carrier
4x Putrid Imp
4x Shepherd of Rot
4x Vengeful Dead
2x Zombie Cannibal
4x Dash Hopes
4x Terror
2x Rend Flesh
Land - 22
4x Barren Moor
18x Swamp
Once you see how everything works in conjunction with each other you can see how you don't need expensive cards to make an effective deck. Feel free to offers ideas towards it to make it better.
This is one of the my favorite things about the zombie tribe! Zombies have gotten some love in the rare department, but they also have some ridiculous commons/uncommons. This is one of the things that turned me onto the tribe originally. I could go to my card shop, and rip through boxes of commons and put together a powerful zombie deck without having to single buy ten-dollar singles. If what you have got here is working for you, and you don't feel investment is necessary, then by all means have fun with what you've got!
One thing that I see off the bat is the blending of a few different deck ideas here. Halted Asylum has some pretty streamlined builds on the first page of the thread. I recommend taking a look at any one of them, and try to work your deck accordingly. You have the Shepherd/Polluter kill going but also the Vengeful Dead/Warchief/beatdown mode. I think that, while both are worthy strategies, you should pick one and stay with it. If you choose the Gempalm/Shepherd route (which would maybe work best considering your desired budget and 1-drop count) you can drop the Warchiefs and Vengeful Dead in favor of some acceleration and support to protect your combo. The deck below is pretty budget, an update/variation on Halted's "Zombies of Rot," that contains very few rares (2 of which are oldies @ 50 cents a piece). Dead and Breakfast because your creatures eat your creatures, life totals, and graveyard! ;]
13 Snow-covered Swamp
2 Piranha Marsh
2 Unholy Grotto
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Zombies! (20)
4 Carnophage
4 Maggot Carrier
4 Rotting Giant
4 Gempalm Polluter
4 Shepherd of Rot
4 Duress
4 Disfigure
4 Dark Ritual
4 Sign in Blood
4 Nameless Inversion
2 Kaervek's Spite
2x Rotlung Reanimator
4x Gempalm Polluter
4x Shepherd of Rot
4x Grave Defiler
4x Undead Warchief
4x Lord of the Undead
4x Cemetery Reaper
4x Death Baron
2x Zombify
2x Victimize
Artifacts
1x AEther Vial
3x Lotus Petal
Land
1x Cabal Coffers
4x Cloudpost
2x Unholy Grotto
19x Swamp
Mono Konda| Sakashima| Yahenni| Ashling| Selvala|C Karn
Guilds Grand Arbiter| Meren| Gisa & Geralf| Scorpion God| Omnath| Sisay| Karlov| Avacyn| Jhoira v2| Rashmi|
Shards WUB Oloro|GWU Roon|RGW Jurassic Park|UBR Nekusar|BRG Kresh|
Clans RWU Narset|WBR Vampires|BGW Doran|UBG Muldrotha|URG Animar|
4-Colors GWUB Atraxa|BRGWSaskia|RGWU Hydra Hug| UBRGYidris|WUBRBreya|
5-Color WUBRG Super Friends
Extra Decks Titania| Taigam| Locust God| Cats| Tishana| Kumena| Squirrels| Slimefoot} Baron|RGW Samut|UBR Pirates|UBR Mairsil| WUBRG Ramos|
You deck is JAM packed with zombie lords! While it is pretty exiciting to watch your zombies grow, I would first recommend pick the lords in your meta/casual group that seem to win the game most and try to work around 2 of them. For instance, you run 4 of each a lord who returns creature cards from your graveyard to your hand to replay them, but then you also run a lord who removes creatures in your graveyard from the game. See what I mean? Try sticking with two of them and hone your strategy a bit more. Do you want to recycle zombies? Eat them out of the grave?
Because you run 4 Lord of the Dead (the route it seems this deck could easily be taken) you should look into Nameless Inversion. Your deck is missing some necessary spot removal and this card is great for that. Counts as a zombie and can be drawn with Defiler. Recycles with your Lord and Grotto. And, should you choose to go Lord/Warchief, it's like a B Lightning Bolt. You want to be able to get rid of creatures your opponent plays, not just hope you can mass enough lords to bowl them over.
Dark Ritual? This deck is hungry for some mana acceleration and would benefit with the addition of 4 of these. They are super effective. On a similar note, I think it would be wise to thin out the mana curve in your deck somewhat. You curve looks like:
1 CMC: 1
2 CMC: 8 (Gempalm counts here)
3 CMC: 16
4 CMC: 10
You need to consider that, on turn two, the most creatures you can have hit the board is one (the only being Shepherd). Cycling Gempalm isn't really effective yet with nothing on the board. Most often, your first play of the game is going to be on turn three. That's a lot of time to wait around! Mix in some cost-effective one-drops like Carnophage, Carrion Feeder, Festering Goblin etc. in place some lords you would consider tossing on the chopping block. You def want to have some aggressive plays early on and build for Shepherd/Gempalm, not wait to mass lords then bank on them for the win. Wrath of God? Damnation? :|
Not sure about Cloudpost here. What are you going to do with so much colorless mana? This deck as is is pretty black intensive. There are 52 black mana symbols among your permanents. Very few of which require more than one colorless mana. Cloudpost just seems unnecessary with so much black mana requirements. Again, Dark Ritual ;].
Your deck concept is great, however, try and streamline it some. Smooth your mana curve out a bit, toss in some acceleration/disruption and I think you'll like the changes. Obviously check the mainpage for some examples, but likewise, throw in what you think will rock your meta/friends! Goodluck, let us know the changes if you decide to make any!
General tips:
a) ALWAYS care about Artifact/Enchantments dealing MD or you risk your game 1 every game (Duress and such chosen quality discard), AND always pack creature REMOVAL md, the only exception is if you only face creatureless decks, which is a VERY RARE situation.
b) If you go with slow cards, find a way to stall board 'til you drop your threats, usually: mass removal, spot removal, targeted discard, stalling enchantments/artifacts....
c) Never overload a cmc drop (3 is usually the overloaded cmc on Zombies, 'cause of Lords), this will make your deck stall many times, try to smooth the drops into your deck. Also, if able, try to scale down your cmc: 16-1cmc, 12-2 cmc, 8-3cmc and so on..this will make you to be a threat all the time (you can "even" them as well).
Hope been helpful.
Second, to all brain gorgers that frequent this thread, Zendikar has given us a cool new zombie quest to consider in deck designs. Quest for the Gravelord (the token that goes with this is dirrrty). Anyone try any tricks with this yet? Seems it needs a dedicated deck built around it, with some form of evasion so he can't be blocked each turn. Carrion Feeder, Festering Goblin, good sac creatures. Something to think about...
Also, Mindless Null? T.T They printed a zombie worse than Scathe Zombies?! Atleast we got one decent (possibly?) edition to our tribe :]
I like your tweak, i just think you should make few changes:
-2 Tendrils Of Corruption: the deck is pretty much 1-2 cmc drops, overcomitting mana base just to cast a worth Tendrils isn't very nice, i'd drop it for sure.
-4 Barren Moor: barren moor is a nice CA for slow or discard based decks, but inside decks that wants to go fast, raising chances for "comes into play tapped" lands is a non-go. You're already running Sign in Blood, which is cool, and enough for CA.
+2 Piranha Marsh (as 2-of seems ok)
+4 Critter: fit some powerful 1-2 cmc creature here.
That's all about it, i like the rest of the deck you did.
Where this deck started as mostly aggro/it's turned back into aggro/control. I'm thinking favoring the ctrl and adding Disfigureas a 2-4 of. The biggest threat to this deck has been other creatures (the lifeloss being unpreventable/counterable)... Not being able to get through/kill them off to get ahead in the life race really stinks. Using it with Rotting Giant might be nice too. Hymn to Tourach? Would give me a 2-1 advantage over my opponent and be useful against non-creature decks too. The creature element of this deck is strong, and I don't want to lose it, however, the control is just as vital at keeping them safe.
EDIT: Deck; formerly Dead & breakfast, now Corpse Control :]
14 Snow-covered Swamp
2 Unholy Grotto
2 Piranha Marsh
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Zombies! (20)
4 Carnophage
4 Maggot Carrier
4 Rotting Giant
4 Gempalm Polluter
4 Shepherd of Rot
3 Disfigure
4 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
4 Sign in Blood
4 Nameless Inversion
2 Kaervek's Spite
New curve:
1 CMC: 19
2 CMC: 20
3 CMC: 2
With the curve so cheap, things are way more accessible than they were before. I couldn't justify keeping 18 swamp and upped to 14. Just seemed like an accident waiting to happen with so few. Let me know what you think.
I wouldn't take the control route, but that's me. More creatures: bigger Shepherd of Rot, bigger Gempalm Polluter, not just that, you keep the pressure into opponent's life points.
You can run cheap cards like Blind Creeper or Wretched Anurid. (also usual choices for specific MUs like Stromgald Crusader (white) or Withered Wretch (grave hate) )
Carrion Feeder also can fit the deck to feed into wasted critters. (not really shining here, as would be Sarcomancy, but can be very useful sometimes)
Hope been helpful.
17 Snow-covered Swamp
1 Urborg
// Artifact (4)
4 Lotus Petal
// Zombies (20)
4 Carnophage
4 Sarcomancy
4 Rotting Giant
4 Shepherd of Rot
4 Gempalm Polluter
4 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
4 Disfigure
4 Sign in Blood
2 Kaervek's Spite
4 Lotus Petal
// 1 CMC (20)
4 Carnophage
4 Sarcomancy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Disfigure
4 Shepherd of Rot
4 Gempalm Polluter
4 Rotting Giant
4 Sign in Blood
2 Kaervek's Spite
Fast, effective, and cheap zombies.
EDIT:
Perhaps the sample Rot deck should be changed then? >< This is similar to the rot deck you've got posted with a few tweaks. It runs pretty darn smootheats life totals for breakfast. Try something like this perhaps? ;] Thanks for the help Halted.