Nice primer overall, although I think that there are a lot of possibilities missing, which is what is so great about zombies as opposed to some of the other boring creature types like Faeries or Goblins (blah blah blah).
I've had a couple different builds over the years, here's some ideas that might help:
SYNOPSIS: Power out some quick zombie clerics so you can sac them to Dark Supplicant to search up your fattie, Scion of Darkness. With Rotlung in play, sac'ing can produce huge card advantage while Cabal Archon and Shepherd of Rot can end the game quickly.
SYNOPSIS: This one plays more like a traditional zombie deck, more focused on the lords but with a little control aspect. Lord of the Undead can recur Nameless Inversions, Korlash and Stillmoon are solid beats, while Necromancer's Covenant can just win games on its own.
SYNOPSIS: This deck plays a lot like a legacy style Smokestack deck. Power out some permanents and then drop Smokestack, Contamination or Tombstone Stairwell to control the board. Contamination with constant recursion through Lord of the Undead or Unholy Grotto is usually game over for non-black decks. Smokestack can be devastating with cards like Rotlung Reanimator and Tombstone Stairwell because of how you can stack the abilities. Gempalm Polluter + Tombstone Stairwell + recursion is game over, very quickly.
I've always wanted to use a couple seemingly junk rares, Gravespawn Sovereign and Ghastly Remains. But I have to tell you that both can be ridiculous in a deck like this.
Ghastly Remains can come down as a 3/3, 4/4, or even 5/5 or more pretty regularly. Plus they are recurable which is always nice. Plus you can always ditch them to Skirk Ridge Exhumer late game, if you find that you don't have enough zombies in hand.
Gravespawn Sovereign is often a true game ender, bringing back creature after creature, which helps give you the edge in creature stalemates. I could almost turn this into a combo deck by putting in Faces of the Past for an infinitely huge Carrion Feeder or Intruder Alarm to bring back multiple creatures at once. But I'm not sure if I'd want to go that route completely.
Lich Lord of Unx can also be a game ender, creating tokens for the Sovereign while also causing massive life loss over and over again. Plus he feeds more bodies into the graveyard, giving your Sovereign more bodies to recur.
Overall, its a very fun deck to play, giving you multiple options to win. I mean even Zombie Trailblazer can mess with the mana base of any aggro deck for turns and turns, just by turning their lands into swamps during their upkeep step. Plus he can clear the way for a big Ghastly Remains to swing through if need be.
[Nice primer overall, although I think that there are a lot of possibilities missing, which is what is so great about zombies as opposed to some of the other boring creature types like Faeries or Goblins (blah blah blah).
In fact, there are alot of routes Zombies can take, and indeed this is what makes this tribe funnier than other, i just listed those decks which have reached some sucess competing.
SYNOPSIS: Power out some quick zombie clerics so you can sac them to Dark Supplicant to search up your fattie, Scion of Darkness. With Rotlung in play, sac'ing can produce huge card advantage while Cabal Archon and Shepherd of Rot can end the game quickly.
I guess this deck don't belong to zombies is a more cleric go. There is not enough targets to Shepherd of Rot or Lord of the Undead here. (or ones that worth it). Also its a really suboptimal use of Scion of Darkness fetch, since with 8-12 one drops clerics you'd raise your chances to fetch it.
In fact, this deck would be alot better without LotU and Rot on it. Also, without 20 zombie creatures on it, you can't consider the deck as a zombie deck.
SYNOPSIS: This one plays more like a traditional zombie deck, more focused on the lords but with a little control aspect. Lord of the Undead can recur Nameless Inversions, Korlash and Stillmoon are solid beats, while Necromancer's Covenant can just win games on its own.
This deck has alot of potencial, and i think this one should go on control route. Death Baron doesn't seems to be necessary, since you're not going to aggro. Korlash is another card that won't explore its potencial without a complete swamp base (you can't rely on urborg).
Necromancer's Covenant, despite a really fun card, will force your land base to be stretched, or risk have stuck cards in your hand.
I like some card picks you hadl like Gerrard's Verdict. Also, i think Vindicate must take place of Mortify.
Fleshbag Marauder is another cool add to the deck to be retrieved, as a 2-3 of.
I'd chance your deck this way:
-4 Death Baron
-4 Korlash, Heir of Blackblade
-3 Mortify
-2 Necromancer's Covenant
-2 Swamp
-1 Nameless Inversion
SYNOPSIS: This deck plays a lot like a legacy style Smokestack deck. Power out some permanents and then drop Smokestack, Contamination or Tombstone Stairwell to control the board. Contamination with constant recursion through Lord of the Undead or Unholy Grotto is usually game over for non-black decks. Smokestack can be devastating with cards like Rotlung Reanimator and Tombstone Stairwell because of how you can stack the abilities. Gempalm Polluter + Tombstone Stairwell + recursion is game over, very quickly.
I don't think its a reliable deck right now, but i'll think about, and post later.
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
Thanks for the feedback on some of the decks. These were all old iterations of decks that I've had in the past and just wanted to post them to spark some ideas among the community instead of only having decks that you deem to be the best options.
I'd have to say though that, since this is a casual forum, I'd lay off a bit on the "competitive" focus. I can take the criticism since I play both casual and competitive formats like Legacy and Standard, but some others won't be so understanding.
And since this forum is meant to be a resource for casual Zombie decks, just saying that a deck is flat out unreliable isn't all that constructive of criticism. Also denouncing cards in a casual format because of a cost of 6 mana isn't constructive either. We all know that casual formats can easily play 6 mana creatures with relevant abilities such as the one on Gravespawn Sovereign. I mean you say that Gravespawn Sovereign isn't great but you suggest a deck that runs Jhessian Zombies? I don't get it.
Like I said, as a suggestion, it'd be nice to have the forum foster creativity instead of hinder it since it is a casual forum.
Thanks for the feedback on some of the decks. These were all old iterations of decks that I've had in the past and just wanted to post them to spark some ideas among the community instead of only having decks that you deem to be the best options.
That's cool, spark new ideas is one of the goals of this thread. I think you should keep sparks coming.
I'd have to say though that, since this is a casual forum, I'd lay off a bit on the "competitive" focus. I can take the criticism since I play both casual and competitive formats like Legacy and Standard, but some others won't be so understanding.
Agreed, what i mean by "semi-competitive" is given the best interaction the deck can be. Also we must be building decks that stands vs other decks, since won't be fun build a deck that loses every time you play it.
And since this forum is meant to be a resource for casual Zombie decks, just saying that a deck is flat out unreliable isn't all that constructive of criticism.
Indeed, it's not. It was just my first insight on the deck. I'm still testing it, that's why i said i'll post my thoughts further.
What i can tell right away after some deck testing is (7 games 'til now), this deck is really slow, and it doesn't take any advantage of Smokestack, since you need alot of pieces out to try to keep on over it.
Still, i think it has some potencial, but i'll take some time to figure out.
Also denouncing cards in a casual format because of a cost of 6 mana isn't constructive either. We all know that casual formats can easily play 6 mana creatures with relevant abilities such as the one on Gravespawn Sovereign. I mean you say that Gravespawn Sovereign isn't great but you suggest a deck that runs Jhessian Zombies? I don't get it.
Indeed, the main backdrop of Gravespawn Sovereign isn't just the 6 mana, but his ability. Putting 6 mana out isn't that easy, also, having 5 creatures out is another concern, specially if you don't play alot of 1-2 mana drop, and a strong card draw outlet to keep playing putrid critters.
It's really easy to disrupt this main strategy to any deck that runs any kind of disruption.
Jhessian Zombies is inside the deck strategy. It's there to swampcycling, in a deck targeted to play Korlash, where swamps are relevant.
Like I said, as a suggestion, it'd be nice to have the forum foster creativity instead of hinder it since it is a casual forum.
Sorry if i sounded harsh, i really don't mean to dismiss people buildings (i myself don't like people dismissing my decks without a reason), in fact, i really want to improve the number o zombie decks here.
What I just don't want is, under the casual excuse, support every deck thrown here.
If we take this route, EVERY deck is playable on casual enviroment, and there won't be any improvement in zombie buildings.
As i mentioned earlier, there are +200 zombies, and just taking all zombies without some reliable idea behind it, won't really help us here.
I want people using zombie decks, having some chance vs any threats they face off (even the coolest idea, after some 5 loss streak to non-competitive decks, becomes not as fun as it seemed before)
So i suggest to people posting decks, some preview test (4-5 games is ok), then you can figure out by yourself, and with options given in this thread, how to solve problems the deck face.
After some background testing, you can share with us, and already post his backdrops, then we all can help to improve it 'til it get playable. (i promise to test every deck posted here).
I'm not willing to take out people's cool ideas, in fact, i really want decks to keep coming, i'll try to always discuss what i disagree and agree with the deck, 'til we make cool new zombies decks.
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
And I apologize if I came across sounding mean, since I appreciate what you're doing by even starting up this thread. I appreciate you playtesting the deck, just to see how to comment on it. That takes extra time that most people including myself rarely do so thanks for your feedback.
As far as your thoughts on Gravespawn Sovereign, yeah he does require a lot of critters to make it work well which is why I have the token producers in that deck idea. Lich Lord of Unx and Skirk Ridge Exhumer can both produce zombie tokens which helps out. Would you recommend more 1-2 drops and then cards like Graveborn Muse to draw tons of cards instead?
Thanks again for playtesting these decks, we appreciate it.
EDIT: I saw the first post and you had describe a burning zombies build that hasn't been built yet. So since I love making zombie decks, I thought I'd give it a shot. Here's my take on it, not sure how good it will be but it does seem like more of a control build and is very mana intensive but with 24 lands I figured that would be enough.
@ Raijinnfury:Hey, it's all right! Thx for the compliments.
Gravespawn Sovereign: i'm still getting into a list (18 games, 2 to go), i'll consider it tested at 20 games vs tuff decks (i'll do the same for all decks).
I'm testing it inside many cores: Madness core creating alot of creatures through Zombie Infestation and Skirk Ridge Exhumer; or winnie base with Dark Ritual; finally abusing Infestation, 24 lands on base, and grave denial to abuse Gravestorm (which seems working better, but still far away from a good deck)
It seems to me that the best way to abuse it is in a non-tribal zombie deck, where he is the only creature, with a huge ca.
I'll be honest here, i really don't think this deck is going to work. Its alot of effort, dropping some necessary back ups, just to put a subpar creature into play and use its ability. What happens is, many times there are no relevant creature to be got from opponent's grave (of course neither in yours), so once your produce a huge army of 5 zombies, you'll always want to beat with them (most times this will swing for 10-14 damage), not tapping everybody to take a non-gamebreaking creature.
Sovereign is always the worst creature i have in hand to cast, even in a deck devoted to him. I'll play a couple more games, but i guess i won't be able to do anything reliable around it.
BURNING ZOMBIES: your build seems to be taking a cool route, i've being trying this, what you think? (all you guys can post your thougths about it):
Other options: Nightscape Master (direct damage) Crypt Champion (retrieve anathemancer from grave to play) Lava Zombie (bounce anathemancer to replay)
(the last 2 works really well with CIP effect zombies up to 3 cmc)
@Enigma: read your strategy, try to realize any contradiction:
"The strategy is to get some cheap creatures out asap and attack"
- ok, here you get board advantage with your creatures
"till i get a grave pact so i can sac them and control the board"
- then, once you're ahead, you sac everything to control board?
Can you see? Why, after ahead on damage table will you want to sac your creatures? "oh, he'll cast big threats...", then what is the answer here? sac? or pack up removal to let your creatures keep the beating?
Your deck strategy contradicts inside itself. You better choose a path to go.
@ Dumbledork: i'll work on a Vengeful Dead later (i've put a step into its build occasionally while working on Sovereign, it seems to have a better potencial, but i just get no time to test everything...hey, i have to work irl. :D).
But i promise i will.
@All: I'm going to suggest a pattern here, then we can evolve decks faster.
Instead of a shower of decks (i know everybody has a zombie build to share), we should work on the first deck given here (the deck must be working around a different zombie), after all discussion is given and we keep begging to differ in a few card choices, then we move on.
What you guys think? Seems more productive, isn't? If you don't agree, we keep on like it is now. If you do agree, i want to hear your thoughts about Burning Zombies (if you guys have some time to playtest and share you experience with the deck, would be great...since my solitary testing provides a slowly progress.
Thanks you all for the feedback. (also i must find some time to improve the Primer, what you think should be added? Piloting Tips? Decks results from testings? Decks behavior?...give your shot)
Thanks Halted for taking this task on, good to see some zombie love channeled into one forum! I am working on builds with Bidding at the moment, this topic has rekindled my love for zombie magic. Dropped Vengeful for some more control.
Having some trouble deciding the value of Vengeful in the build where the swarm tactic seems stronger than mass sacrifice. Any opinions on this?
The first build lacked some serious control, this focuses a bit more on eliminating creatures via Infest. Early build your Carrion Feeder with Festering Goblins and Wretch's. Build your mana base with you Twisted Abominations and Read the Runes. Midgame cast Bidding for zombies, nuke their army, attack. Rinse and repeat and this should be game over. I suppose in deck's that favor less creatures I would sub those 3 Vengeful Dead back in for the Infest. Carrion Feeder and Fest Gob make for some surprisingly good board control early on.
I'm interested in seeing how you work Vengeful into a Gravespawn build.
Basically, the way to run the deck is to cycle the following creatures and abuse Oversold Cemetery. Having tons of Cycling creatures in your graveyard and one going back to your hand, you can keep Swampcycling. The beauty of this is that if you dont need the swamp, you can always refresh your hand with Scroll rack to grab the control cards that you need. Keep in mind that I chose Swampcycling over regular cycling because you need to keep shuffling your deck in order for Scroll Rack to be effective Fluctuator is there to make cycling free.
Also if this shell becomes successful, I would love to try this deck for Legacy Format. The reason why I didnt put this under legacy format is because as much as possible, I want to keep underground. I would love to keep this mono-black as well as pure zombies (with the exceptions for the following cycling cards)
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Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
Fluctuator works combo decks (deck thinning through cycling), or just dig mana for guaranteed mana drop. Maybe it might work with Korlash, recurring his copy to improve swamps and making it even huger...just a first thought.
Astral Slide deck used cycling and a creature denial, while sinking creatures into grave like Eternal Dragon.
Anyway, Gempalm Polluter won't work with Fluctuator, since its cycling cost is BB. But Viscera Dragger does have a 2 as cycling cost.
I'll think about it.
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
Fluctuator works combo decks (deck thinning through cycling), or just dig mana for guaranteed mana drop. Maybe it might work with Korlash, recurring his copy to improve swamps and making it even huger...just a first thought.
Astral Slide deck used cycling and a creature denial, while sinking creatures into grave like Eternal Dragon.
Anyway, Gempalm Polluter won't work with Fluctuator, since its cycling cost is BB. But Viscera Dragger does have a 2 as cycling cost.
Here is my current list, designed to be just straight beats. We play multiplayer, and the list needs some improvements, but right now it seems to always be the biggest threat at the table.
4x Zombie Master
4x Lord of the Undead
4x Death Baron
4x Undead Warchief
4x Zombie Trailblazer
4x Grave Defiler
4x Phyrexian Scuta
4x Dark Ritual
4x Nameless Inversion
24x Lands
I am liking Phyrexian Scuta less and less. It is solid, but the deck can do better, I think. You can see all the lords represented, as well as Zombie Trailblazer to ensure that the opponent has a swamp for swampwalk (don't own Urborgs) as well as Grave Defiler for some CA. Nameless Inversion is just a minor spot removal that can be grabbed with Defilers or Lord of the Undead.
I suggest cutting the Zombie master by 1, you don't need 4 of something that doesn't stack. Urborg is needed in the land base. Zombie master you need two on the field to give it self Swampwalk and regen. Mutavalts or Unholy grotos would be good for the land base also.
I suggest cutting the Zombie master by 1, you don't need 4 of something that doesn't stack. Urborg is needed in the land base. Zombie master you need two on the field to give it self Swampwalk and regen. Mutavalts or Unholy grotos would be good for the land base also.
What? You say I should cut one, then turn around and say I need two on the board?
Also, I didn't post a manabase. I am aware of the usefulness of all those listed lands.
I suggest cutting the Zombie master by 1, you don't need 4 of something that doesn't stack. Urborg is needed in the land base. Zombie master you need two on the field to give it self Swampwalk and regen. Mutavalts or Unholy grotos would be good for the land base also.
@Scrow
I believe what Scionofgod is trying to point out is the fact that your deck doesn't need 4 creatures whose abilities don't stack. ADDITIONALLY, your zombie masters don't give swampwalk and regeneration to themselves, only other zombies, so you need 2 Zombie Master on the board (in play that is, not in the deck) for their abilities to benefit one another.
It's true, 3 is the right number of Zombie Master, more than that, you'll be just drawing dead cards.
I'm out of time to playtest everything, i'm still slowly playtesting the Burning Zombies build.
@(Nameless_One):
i didn't get it, what is the deal with Scroll Rack, what is you digging for?
I guess Fluctuator will just allows you to do free draws. Ideas that came up on my mind: threshold (grave will be full fast, and abuse cards like Gloomdrifter), reanimator (Sutured Ghoul), or some sort of combo that i still can't figure out (in this case, scroll rack might take a special roll)
@Scrow:
your deck is too slow, it start on 3 mana, and you do nothing early game.
If you run Zombie Master, drop Trailblazer. (remember to add Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for full usage)
You're running too much lords, choose 2 and go with them. (You choose evasion, drop Death Baron - deathtouch lord)
Don't run Dark Ritual, since your deck is slow and this is gonna be a meaningless one shot, ramp with some permanent mana provider, as Mind Stone.
Drop Scuta / Defiler: prefer cyclers like Twisted Abomination / Viscera Dragger to create CA and still do some nice play early game.
Your deck needs to cover threats you can't deal with (like artifacts/enchantments), so Duress / Distress is some kind of needed.
@I'm redoing all deck analisys (piloting, card picks, sb management), and covering some MUps. (I'm taking 3-4 decks from Legacy / 3-4 Decks from Tribals for each deck), any request of specific MUs you want covered? By what deck?
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
It's true, 3 is the right number of Zombie Master, more than that, you'll be just drawing dead cards.
I'm out of time to playtest everything, i'm still slowly playtesting the Burning Zombies build.
@(Nameless_One):
i didn't get it, what is the deal with Scroll Rack, what is you digging for?
I guess Fluctuator will just allows you to do free draws. Ideas that came up on my mind: threshold (grave will be full fast, and abuse cards like Gloomdrifter), reanimator (Sutured Ghoul), or some sort of combo that i still can't figure out (in this case, scroll rack might take a special roll)
well, scroll rack is there just to refresh your hand. how many times have you drawn a card and not get what you need? since its a casual (too slow to be competitive), you can run scroll rack to keep all threats in mind. and since youre doing landcycling, you're shuffling your deck. and by shuffling your deck, you are erasing scroll rack's drawback.
but if its not needed then its not. as long as we run landcycling zombies and maybe fluctuator. but running oversold cemetery is necessary to gain card advantage.
also can we turn a korlash control into a competitive legacy deck Halted Asylum? especially with oversold landcycling synergy?
As long as we run landcycling zombies and maybe fluctuator. but running oversold cemetery is necessary to gain card advantage.
also can we turn a korlash control into a competitive legacy deck Halted Asylum? especially with oversold landcycling synergy?
Indeed, Fluctuator + Oversold Cemitery sounds really great on Korlash deck, not sure if we can improve it to competitive, but we can give it a shot.
12 Swamps
08 Cycling Lands
12 Cycling Creatures
03 Fluctuator
03 Oversold Cemitery
04 Duress
04 Removal
04 Korlash
04 Dark Ritual
04 Lord of the Undead
02 Needle?
If you can test a little (up to 12 games is ok) and share your thoughts, i'd be greatful (i'm on a lack of time...so somebody helping on testing would be really nice!!! :D)
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
Ill have to post my multiplayer korlash deck, and my somewhat competive Zombie lord deck with sideboard some time here soon.... one at a time tho, this deck posting crap takes me forever.
Oh my brains theirs a zombie archetype here. I make a thread for my own zombie deck before this and it helped ALOT. So go check it out here. I just spotted Hecatomb that I'm going to try out. Never thought of Scroll Rack before.
@I'm redoing all deck analisys (piloting, card picks, sb management), and covering some MUps. (I'm taking 3-4 decks from Legacy / 3-4 Decks from Tribals for each deck), any request of specific MUs you want covered? By what deck?
Was thinking about trying some card vs. card breakdown's between similar zombie creatures/support cards. For example a comparison between Carrion Feeder and Nantuko Husk or the different zombies lords discussing the merits/disadvantages of each and what deck types they fit in best. Perhaps unveiling more single card strategies would help promote the new zombie deck ideas that we are looking for here?
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Yea lol, I did that and nothing appears. It works on the first two for me and won't work on the rest. ):
Patriarch's Bidding > Balthor the Defiled;
else {
Balthor the Defiled > Patriarch's Bidding;
}
Gravespawn Sovereign seems like a fun card if you are playing with zombie tokens. Plus it could be fun and evil with Intruder Alarm.
Nice primer overall, although I think that there are a lot of possibilities missing, which is what is so great about zombies as opposed to some of the other boring creature types like Faeries or Goblins (blah blah blah).
I've had a couple different builds over the years, here's some ideas that might help:
4 Cabal Archon
4 Rotlung Reanimator
4 Withered Wretch
3 Lord of the Undead
4 Dark Supplicant
2 Scion of Darkness
4 Duress
4 Nameless Inversion
3 Snuff Out
2 Unholy Grotto
SYNOPSIS: Power out some quick zombie clerics so you can sac them to Dark Supplicant to search up your fattie, Scion of Darkness. With Rotlung in play, sac'ing can produce huge card advantage while Cabal Archon and Shepherd of Rot can end the game quickly.
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Stillmoon Cavalier
4 Death Baron
3 Lord of the Undead
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
2 Graveborn Muse
4 Nameless Inversion
3 Gerrard's Verdict
3 Mortify
2 Leechridden Swamp
4 Tainted Field
4 Caves of Koilos
12 Swamp
1 Plains
SYNOPSIS: This one plays more like a traditional zombie deck, more focused on the lords but with a little control aspect. Lord of the Undead can recur Nameless Inversions, Korlash and Stillmoon are solid beats, while Necromancer's Covenant can just win games on its own.
4 Shepherd of Rot
2 Gempalm Polluter
4 Withered Wretch
4 Death Baron
2 Undead Warchief
2 Lord of the Undead
3 Tombstone Stairwell
4 Smokestack
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Dark Ritual
3 Unholy Grotto
10 Swamp
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Lake of the Dead
SYNOPSIS: This deck plays a lot like a legacy style Smokestack deck. Power out some permanents and then drop Smokestack, Contamination or Tombstone Stairwell to control the board. Contamination with constant recursion through Lord of the Undead or Unholy Grotto is usually game over for non-black decks. Smokestack can be devastating with cards like Rotlung Reanimator and Tombstone Stairwell because of how you can stack the abilities. Gempalm Polluter + Tombstone Stairwell + recursion is game over, very quickly.
[GTC] Gatecrash Patch for MWS (249/249)
3 Gravespawn Sovereign
4 Ghastly Remains
4 Zombie Trailblazer
4 Lich Lord of Unx
3 Death Baron
3 Skirk Ridge Exhumer
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Soul Manipulation
4 Feast or Famine
4 Nameless Inversion
Lands:
4 Tainted Isle
4 Watery Grave
13 Swamp
2 Unholy Grotto
I've always wanted to use a couple seemingly junk rares, Gravespawn Sovereign and Ghastly Remains. But I have to tell you that both can be ridiculous in a deck like this.
Ghastly Remains can come down as a 3/3, 4/4, or even 5/5 or more pretty regularly. Plus they are recurable which is always nice. Plus you can always ditch them to Skirk Ridge Exhumer late game, if you find that you don't have enough zombies in hand.
Gravespawn Sovereign is often a true game ender, bringing back creature after creature, which helps give you the edge in creature stalemates. I could almost turn this into a combo deck by putting in Faces of the Past for an infinitely huge Carrion Feeder or Intruder Alarm to bring back multiple creatures at once. But I'm not sure if I'd want to go that route completely.
Lich Lord of Unx can also be a game ender, creating tokens for the Sovereign while also causing massive life loss over and over again. Plus he feeds more bodies into the graveyard, giving your Sovereign more bodies to recur.
Overall, its a very fun deck to play, giving you multiple options to win. I mean even Zombie Trailblazer can mess with the mana base of any aggro deck for turns and turns, just by turning their lands into swamps during their upkeep step. Plus he can clear the way for a big Ghastly Remains to swing through if need be.
Indeed, but 6 cmc is a non-go for him, at least if you try to push the deck into a semi-competitive pattern.
In fact, there are alot of routes Zombies can take, and indeed this is what makes this tribe funnier than other, i just listed those decks which have reached some sucess competing.
I guess this deck don't belong to zombies is a more cleric go. There is not enough targets to Shepherd of Rot or Lord of the Undead here. (or ones that worth it). Also its a really suboptimal use of Scion of Darkness fetch, since with 8-12 one drops clerics you'd raise your chances to fetch it.
In fact, this deck would be alot better without LotU and Rot on it. Also, without 20 zombie creatures on it, you can't consider the deck as a zombie deck.
This deck has alot of potencial, and i think this one should go on control route. Death Baron doesn't seems to be necessary, since you're not going to aggro. Korlash is another card that won't explore its potencial without a complete swamp base (you can't rely on urborg).
Necromancer's Covenant, despite a really fun card, will force your land base to be stretched, or risk have stuck cards in your hand.
I like some card picks you hadl like Gerrard's Verdict. Also, i think Vindicate must take place of Mortify.
Fleshbag Marauder is another cool add to the deck to be retrieved, as a 2-3 of.
I'd chance your deck this way:
-4 Death Baron
-4 Korlash, Heir of Blackblade
-3 Mortify
-2 Necromancer's Covenant
-2 Swamp
-1 Nameless Inversion
+1 Lord of the Undead
+1 Gerrard's Verdict
+2 Fleshbag Marauder
+4 Duress
+4 Vindicate
+4 Festering Goblin
I don't think its a reliable deck right now, but i'll think about, and post later.
I'd have to say though that, since this is a casual forum, I'd lay off a bit on the "competitive" focus. I can take the criticism since I play both casual and competitive formats like Legacy and Standard, but some others won't be so understanding.
And since this forum is meant to be a resource for casual Zombie decks, just saying that a deck is flat out unreliable isn't all that constructive of criticism. Also denouncing cards in a casual format because of a cost of 6 mana isn't constructive either. We all know that casual formats can easily play 6 mana creatures with relevant abilities such as the one on Gravespawn Sovereign. I mean you say that Gravespawn Sovereign isn't great but you suggest a deck that runs Jhessian Zombies? I don't get it.
Like I said, as a suggestion, it'd be nice to have the forum foster creativity instead of hinder it since it is a casual forum.
That's cool, spark new ideas is one of the goals of this thread. I think you should keep sparks coming.
Agreed, what i mean by "semi-competitive" is given the best interaction the deck can be. Also we must be building decks that stands vs other decks, since won't be fun build a deck that loses every time you play it.
Indeed, it's not. It was just my first insight on the deck. I'm still testing it, that's why i said i'll post my thoughts further.
What i can tell right away after some deck testing is (7 games 'til now), this deck is really slow, and it doesn't take any advantage of Smokestack, since you need alot of pieces out to try to keep on over it.
Still, i think it has some potencial, but i'll take some time to figure out.
Indeed, the main backdrop of Gravespawn Sovereign isn't just the 6 mana, but his ability. Putting 6 mana out isn't that easy, also, having 5 creatures out is another concern, specially if you don't play alot of 1-2 mana drop, and a strong card draw outlet to keep playing putrid critters.
It's really easy to disrupt this main strategy to any deck that runs any kind of disruption.
Jhessian Zombies is inside the deck strategy. It's there to swampcycling, in a deck targeted to play Korlash, where swamps are relevant.
Sorry if i sounded harsh, i really don't mean to dismiss people buildings (i myself don't like people dismissing my decks without a reason), in fact, i really want to improve the number o zombie decks here.
What I just don't want is, under the casual excuse, support every deck thrown here.
If we take this route, EVERY deck is playable on casual enviroment, and there won't be any improvement in zombie buildings.
As i mentioned earlier, there are +200 zombies, and just taking all zombies without some reliable idea behind it, won't really help us here.
I want people using zombie decks, having some chance vs any threats they face off (even the coolest idea, after some 5 loss streak to non-competitive decks, becomes not as fun as it seemed before)
So i suggest to people posting decks, some preview test (4-5 games is ok), then you can figure out by yourself, and with options given in this thread, how to solve problems the deck face.
After some background testing, you can share with us, and already post his backdrops, then we all can help to improve it 'til it get playable. (i promise to test every deck posted here).
I'm not willing to take out people's cool ideas, in fact, i really want decks to keep coming, i'll try to always discuss what i disagree and agree with the deck, 'til we make cool new zombies decks.
As far as your thoughts on Gravespawn Sovereign, yeah he does require a lot of critters to make it work well which is why I have the token producers in that deck idea. Lich Lord of Unx and Skirk Ridge Exhumer can both produce zombie tokens which helps out. Would you recommend more 1-2 drops and then cards like Graveborn Muse to draw tons of cards instead?
Thanks again for playtesting these decks, we appreciate it.
EDIT: I saw the first post and you had describe a burning zombies build that hasn't been built yet. So since I love making zombie decks, I thought I'd give it a shot. Here's my take on it, not sure how good it will be but it does seem like more of a control build and is very mana intensive but with 24 lands I figured that would be enough.
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Rakdos Guildmage
4 Anathemancer
4 Pyre Zombie
2 Balthor the Defiled
3 Graveborn Muse
3 Grave Defiler
2 Noxious Ghoul
4 Duress
3 Nameless Inversion
3 Deadapult
Lands:
4 Tainted Peak
4 Badlands
9 Swamp
3 Unholy Grotto
4 Mountain
Gravespawn Sovereign: i'm still getting into a list (18 games, 2 to go), i'll consider it tested at 20 games vs tuff decks (i'll do the same for all decks).
I'm testing it inside many cores: Madness core creating alot of creatures through Zombie Infestation and Skirk Ridge Exhumer; or winnie base with Dark Ritual; finally abusing Infestation, 24 lands on base, and grave denial to abuse Gravestorm (which seems working better, but still far away from a good deck)
It seems to me that the best way to abuse it is in a non-tribal zombie deck, where he is the only creature, with a huge ca.
21 Swamps
02 Unholy Grotto
01 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
// CREATURES (20)
04 Gravespawn Soverein
04 Skirk Ridge Exhumer
04 Withered Wretch
04 Entrails Feaster
04 Carrion Feeder
04 Zombie Infestation
04 Night's Whisper
04 Gravestorm
04 Terror
I'll be honest here, i really don't think this deck is going to work. Its alot of effort, dropping some necessary back ups, just to put a subpar creature into play and use its ability. What happens is, many times there are no relevant creature to be got from opponent's grave (of course neither in yours), so once your produce a huge army of 5 zombies, you'll always want to beat with them (most times this will swing for 10-14 damage), not tapping everybody to take a non-gamebreaking creature.
Sovereign is always the worst creature i have in hand to cast, even in a deck devoted to him. I'll play a couple more games, but i guess i won't be able to do anything reliable around it.
BURNING ZOMBIES: your build seems to be taking a cool route, i've being trying this, what you think? (all you guys can post your thougths about it):
04 Tainted Peak
04 Sulfurous Springs
04 Rocky Tar Pit
02 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
05 Swamp
05 Mountain
04 Nightscape Familiar
04 Rakdos Guildmage
04 Anathemancer
04 Pyre Zombie
04 Balduvian Dead
04 Backlash
04 Delirium
04 Terminate
03 Deadapult
01 Spontaneous Combustion
Other options:
Nightscape Master (direct damage)
Crypt Champion (retrieve anathemancer from grave to play)
Lava Zombie (bounce anathemancer to replay)
(the last 2 works really well with CIP effect zombies up to 3 cmc)
Questions:
1) Which one is better for 4 mana slot Balduvian Dead or Nightscape Master?
2) Should we go with strickly direct burn, or keep on Backlash / Delirium?
@Enigma: read your strategy, try to realize any contradiction:
"The strategy is to get some cheap creatures out asap and attack"
- ok, here you get board advantage with your creatures
"till i get a grave pact so i can sac them and control the board"
- then, once you're ahead, you sac everything to control board?
Can you see? Why, after ahead on damage table will you want to sac your creatures? "oh, he'll cast big threats...", then what is the answer here? sac? or pack up removal to let your creatures keep the beating?
Your deck strategy contradicts inside itself. You better choose a path to go.
@ Dumbledork: i'll work on a Vengeful Dead later (i've put a step into its build occasionally while working on Sovereign, it seems to have a better potencial, but i just get no time to test everything...hey, i have to work irl. :D).
But i promise i will.
@All: I'm going to suggest a pattern here, then we can evolve decks faster.
Instead of a shower of decks (i know everybody has a zombie build to share), we should work on the first deck given here (the deck must be working around a different zombie), after all discussion is given and we keep begging to differ in a few card choices, then we move on.
What you guys think? Seems more productive, isn't? If you don't agree, we keep on like it is now. If you do agree, i want to hear your thoughts about Burning Zombies (if you guys have some time to playtest and share you experience with the deck, would be great...since my solitary testing provides a slowly progress.
Thanks you all for the feedback. (also i must find some time to improve the Primer, what you think should be added? Piloting Tips? Decks results from testings? Decks behavior?...give your shot)
13 Swamp
3 Island
4 Tainted Isle
1 Bad River
1 Watery Grave
3 Carrion Feeder
4 Festering Goblin
4 Withered Wretch
4 Rotlung Reanimator
4 Noxious Ghoul
4 Twisted Abomination
3 Infest
4 Dark Ritual
4 Patriarch's Bidding
4 Read the Runes
The first build lacked some serious control, this focuses a bit more on eliminating creatures via Infest. Early build your Carrion Feeder with Festering Goblins and Wretch's. Build your mana base with you Twisted Abominations and Read the Runes. Midgame cast Bidding for zombies, nuke their army, attack. Rinse and repeat and this should be game over. I suppose in deck's that favor less creatures I would sub those 3 Vengeful Dead back in for the Infest. Carrion Feeder and Fest Gob make for some surprisingly good board control early on.
I'm interested in seeing how you work Vengeful into a Gravespawn build.
GBW- Glare Of Subdual Elves
Credits to devilz for making the above super special awesome siggy.
I was looking through my buddy's trade binder when I came across[ card]Oversold Cemetery[/card]. Then, the hamster in my head started to run.
Now I'm asking you and your zombie expertise if you can make a control deck with the following shell:
Cookies and Cream (an attempt to zombify Parfait):
Oversold Cemetery
Igneous Pouncer
Jhessian Zombies
Twisted Abomination
Gempalm Polluter
Fluctuator
Scroll Rack
Basically, the way to run the deck is to cycle the following creatures and abuse Oversold Cemetery. Having tons of Cycling creatures in your graveyard and one going back to your hand, you can keep Swampcycling. The beauty of this is that if you dont need the swamp, you can always refresh your hand with Scroll rack to grab the control cards that you need. Keep in mind that I chose Swampcycling over regular cycling because you need to keep shuffling your deck in order for Scroll Rack to be effective Fluctuator is there to make cycling free.
Also if this shell becomes successful, I would love to try this deck for Legacy Format. The reason why I didnt put this under legacy format is because as much as possible, I want to keep underground. I would love to keep this mono-black as well as pure zombies (with the exceptions for the following cycling cards)
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
Fluctuator works combo decks (deck thinning through cycling), or just dig mana for guaranteed mana drop. Maybe it might work with Korlash, recurring his copy to improve swamps and making it even huger...just a first thought.
Astral Slide deck used cycling and a creature denial, while sinking creatures into grave like Eternal Dragon.
Anyway, Gempalm Polluter won't work with Fluctuator, since its cycling cost is BB. But Viscera Dragger does have a 2 as cycling cost.
I'll think about it.
I have no clue why I added Gempalm Polluter, but Viscera Dragger sounds neat. Although my main goal is to achieve swampcycling instead because it enables scroll rack (although recycled cycling doesnt hurt).
Maybe we can incorporate zombie trailblazer's mana denial control? (but that only works with non-black decks)
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
4x Zombie Master
4x Lord of the Undead
4x Death Baron
4x Undead Warchief
4x Zombie Trailblazer
4x Grave Defiler
4x Phyrexian Scuta
4x Dark Ritual
4x Nameless Inversion
24x Lands
I am liking Phyrexian Scuta less and less. It is solid, but the deck can do better, I think. You can see all the lords represented, as well as Zombie Trailblazer to ensure that the opponent has a swamp for swampwalk (don't own Urborgs) as well as Grave Defiler for some CA. Nameless Inversion is just a minor spot removal that can be grabbed with Defilers or Lord of the Undead.
Thoughts?
4x Lord of the Undead
4x Death Baron
4x Undead Warchief
4x Zombie Trailblazer
4x Grave Defiler
4x Phyrexian Scuta
4x Nameless Inversion
24x Lands
I suggest cutting the Zombie master by 1, you don't need 4 of something that doesn't stack. Urborg is needed in the land base. Zombie master you need two on the field to give it self Swampwalk and regen. Mutavalts or Unholy grotos would be good for the land base also.
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What? You say I should cut one, then turn around and say I need two on the board?
Also, I didn't post a manabase. I am aware of the usefulness of all those listed lands.
@Scrow
I believe what Scionofgod is trying to point out is the fact that your deck doesn't need 4 creatures whose abilities don't stack. ADDITIONALLY, your zombie masters don't give swampwalk and regeneration to themselves, only other zombies, so you need 2 Zombie Master on the board (in play that is, not in the deck) for their abilities to benefit one another.
I'm out of time to playtest everything, i'm still slowly playtesting the Burning Zombies build.
@(Nameless_One):
i didn't get it, what is the deal with Scroll Rack, what is you digging for?
I guess Fluctuator will just allows you to do free draws. Ideas that came up on my mind: threshold (grave will be full fast, and abuse cards like Gloomdrifter), reanimator (Sutured Ghoul), or some sort of combo that i still can't figure out (in this case, scroll rack might take a special roll)
@Scrow:
your deck is too slow, it start on 3 mana, and you do nothing early game.
If you run Zombie Master, drop Trailblazer. (remember to add Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for full usage)
You're running too much lords, choose 2 and go with them. (You choose evasion, drop Death Baron - deathtouch lord)
Don't run Dark Ritual, since your deck is slow and this is gonna be a meaningless one shot, ramp with some permanent mana provider, as Mind Stone.
Drop Scuta / Defiler: prefer cyclers like Twisted Abomination / Viscera Dragger to create CA and still do some nice play early game.
Your deck needs to cover threats you can't deal with (like artifacts/enchantments), so Duress / Distress is some kind of needed.
@I'm redoing all deck analisys (piloting, card picks, sb management), and covering some MUps. (I'm taking 3-4 decks from Legacy / 3-4 Decks from Tribals for each deck), any request of specific MUs you want covered? By what deck?
well, scroll rack is there just to refresh your hand. how many times have you drawn a card and not get what you need? since its a casual (too slow to be competitive), you can run scroll rack to keep all threats in mind. and since youre doing landcycling, you're shuffling your deck. and by shuffling your deck, you are erasing scroll rack's drawback.
but if its not needed then its not. as long as we run landcycling zombies and maybe fluctuator. but running oversold cemetery is necessary to gain card advantage.
also can we turn a korlash control into a competitive legacy deck Halted Asylum? especially with oversold landcycling synergy?
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
Indeed, Fluctuator + Oversold Cemitery sounds really great on Korlash deck, not sure if we can improve it to competitive, but we can give it a shot.
12 Swamps
08 Cycling Lands
12 Cycling Creatures
03 Fluctuator
03 Oversold Cemitery
04 Duress
04 Removal
04 Korlash
04 Dark Ritual
04 Lord of the Undead
02 Needle?
If you can test a little (up to 12 games is ok) and share your thoughts, i'd be greatful (i'm on a lack of time...so somebody helping on testing would be really nice!!! :D)
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Was thinking about trying some card vs. card breakdown's between similar zombie creatures/support cards. For example a comparison between Carrion Feeder and Nantuko Husk or the different zombies lords discussing the merits/disadvantages of each and what deck types they fit in best. Perhaps unveiling more single card strategies would help promote the new zombie deck ideas that we are looking for here?