@Kennethwong:
Now there's information we didn't have before. A deck for multiplayer games must have different strategies than a deck for 1 on 1.
In this kind of game, boomerang is still not an excelent card. Rushing River, Repulse and Evacuation work better, even though you can't have them on the stick.
You have to be very careful when choosing what cards to counter or else you won't have enough counters for the important things. Rewind plays a big role in multiplayer games, allowing for the casting og more than one counter.
You should consider a more consistent draw engine such as Rhystic Study. It is a multiplayer powerhouse.
thanks man, so what should i take out?
i think to myself
-3 boomerang
+2 rushing river
+1 Evacuation (i am on a VERY tight budget, i really dont think i can exceed 10 dollars)
Well i cant find it anywhere available and if i do go somewhere else all of the other cards i need to complete this deck is going to be overpriced.So ima just deal with what i got till i can find some mana leak's at the cardshop or something.Besides the mana leaks anything wrong?
one on one? or multi? anyway, echoing truth is pretty good, especially against tokens, but boomerang could potentially net more turns by bouncing land.
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Quote from Bone_doc »
This virtual world is begining to feel more and more like Tron, exept with less motorcycles and more card games
This is what it should look like. I already have 4 boomerang, 1 rewind, 1 mind spring, 1 aeon chronicler, 1 guile, 2 abduction, 1 mind control. estimate of how much this would be?
EDIT:
Should i run power sink? makes him tap out first spell he plays for about two, and if he doesnt, then i just counterspell it.
EDIT: im taking out conclave, i dont have more than 15 dollars
You should add Sleep to this list. It's not for every MUC deck, but it certainly has applications. It's especially killer in Multilayer, you can sleep all the creatures an opponent late in the rotation has, then get everyone else to attack that player while they're defenseless, and they'll usually be beyond dead.
for example, my friend relies on an early beatdown with nip gwillon and edge of divinity. i can easily piss him off i mean kill his two enchantments, and waste his spent mana with a single unsummon. and i play heavy multiplayer, not going to be able to counter everything.
@blutsau
yes, bounce may not be an answer to threats, but i can still stall by bouncing his land in the first several turns with boomerang
This is what it should look like. I already have 4 boomerang, 1 rewind, 1 mind spring, 1 aeon chronicler, 1 guile, 2 abduction, 1 mind control. estimate of how much this would be?
EDIT:
Should i run power sink? makes him tap out first spell he plays for about two, and if he doesnt, then i just counterspell it.
EDIT: im taking out conclave, i dont have more than 15 dollars
May i ask, why do you run rushing river? I really hate it very much. a bounce for 3. ewww
FOr your bounce, I would run
3 evacuation( multiplayer, get rid of all your creatures, everybody swing on you)
4x Echoing truth ( a good bounce, kills tokens, gets rid of the 3 daru warchiefs ( inside joke)
You could take out echoing for boomerang or unsummon
The study is good for CA, but i think aeon chronicle is a bit too much mana. Suspending 1 would cost you 5, which would probably leave your mana tapped and letting them play their long awaited card (so you have to get fow). Mind spring is easily better, but if it is too expensive, go for easy draw likediviniation or something.
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Progenitus doesn't have protection from Lighters
Thank you for Kennethwong, for inspiring me to do this sig pic when I was bored.
GENERATION 15: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
You can post your decklist on something like TCGPlayer.com's deck lists, and it will show the price of every card, the price of the total deck, pictures of every card, all sorts of statistics about your deck, and links to buy the cards you don't have.
Also, your deck list says "Lands: 22" but you have 24 lands (as you should, don't go below that with this deck).
Not sure if that throws off your counts.
denizen is bad, i know, but its FUN. excerpt: "I swing for 11." "I can't block that."
Daze? i mean, force spike i can use first turn without screwing my land drops, and i dont run landfall, which is why its more useful nowadays. ill try it on MTGO and see.
eh, the beatsticks are either cheap or precon rares
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Quote from Bone_doc »
This virtual world is begining to feel more and more like Tron, exept with less motorcycles and more card games
Building my first MUC deck, purely casual. These are the cards I've gathered, and I've obviously got too many cards, would definitely like advice on what to nix and what to leave in. I'm going for a concept of just pure, PITA bounce, counter and arbitrary restrictions while winning with Bribery or Fairy ping.
Thinking of acquiring some Brainstorms and Ponders.
Daze? i mean, force spike i can use first turn without screwing my land drops, and i dont run landfall, which is why its more useful nowadays. ill try it on MTGO and see.
Daze isn't a great card because of it's' usage in landfall decks, it's because it's a watered down version of Force of Will. Proxy it and playtest a couple games with it. Do not underestimate the power of a counterspell that can be cast for free. A lot of people facing control decks will wait until the MUC player taps out, knowing they can now tap out for hardcasting their progentius or something, and then you Daze it. People often tap out for those "key" game winning spells, because they want to play it the turn they are able to, and the fact that you can tap out to counter/bounce/play other things and still counter something after that is crucial.
Honestly I forgot about it. I didn't do a Gatherer search for 2cc counters and I didn't play back then. I like Arcane Denial but when I play it I get that "why am I letting them draw cards?!?" creepy feeling.
It really depends on what you are wanting it for. If you only need to protect against specific cards or effects, for example needing to protect enchantments, then its pretty hot, but if you are countering everything and anything, then yes, the draw can be disadvantageous.
@ M1911's list: Cut down to ~36 non-land spells. I suggest you start with: 4 Jester's Scepter, 3 Mana Web, 2 Curiosity, 2 Fatespinner. and then cut more counters and add more draw, curiosity and Thornwind Fae won't do it.
I like Bribery as wincon, but I see problems winning against non-creature based decks or simple weenies.
Daze is simply tech and changes the way people play a lot more than Force Spike. Arcane Denial is not that bad if a Lab is out.
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Each reality is but the dream of another, and each sleeper a god unknowing.
We define the boundaries of reality; they don't define us.
My MUC is strictly casual, so I don't do the traditional permission draw-go style deck, instead I opted for tons of creature control and posession cards and combinations. Here is my little pet MUC deck:
The deck's basic function is to survive the early turns using Echoing Truth and Walls of Frost, then using midrange cards like Vedalken Shackles to steal the adversaries creatures. Reins of Power and Vedalken Shackles combo with Spawning Pit allowing me to steal opposing creature then sacrificing them to Spawning Pit, causing a one sided "Wrath" effect. With Vedalken Shackles and Spawning Pit out, every creature I steal, I can sacrifice continually. Luckily, Reins of Power doesn't target, so if I run into shroud guys, I can still steal them and sacrifice them anyway. Rainbow Efreet si a great card, becasue it protects itself from removal, and can be phased out in response to my Reins of Power, in case I don't want the adversary to get it for the turn. Fact or Fiction is basic draw power needed, simple and efficient. Thoughts?
It was fun for awhile, but I am ready to go back to traditional draw-go. I didn't like Ancestral Vision as much as I hoped to be honest. So, I am sticking with Fact or Fiction for raw draw power. As far as library manipulation goes, I prefer Impulse. I definitley think Propaganda should be a 4 of in MUC of any kind. Vedalken Shackles is silly good, as we all know. Counterwise, I like [/card]Cryptic Command[/card] for casual, and traditional Counterspell. Forbid is sweet if you run tons of draw. I have also looked inot using [/card]Augury Adept[/card] in MUC as a replacement for [/card]Ophidian[/card], since neither have evasion, but Adept swings for 2, nets you a card and gains you life. I can usually force it through with Vedalken Shackles online. Typically, as far as more board control goes in casual, I'd use Into the Roil, since you cantrip, thus no card disadvantage. My favorite win condition is still Morphling. He's still Superman, no matter what the naysayers preach.
Pretty basic. Not a zillion counterspells, just 11. But, loads of draw and board control. I'm still trying Augury Adept, I'm not certain, but it looks promising.
so.... i think you need more counters. i really run 20 counters, others like running 16, but anything less than 12 is SHAMEFUL. it just doesnt feel right.
augury adept isnt something you really want, because it isnt as good as a draw. also, you'd tap out on turn three, and they could set up if they're fast enough. replace with ponder
i never became a fan of into the roil. yeah, you cantrip. yeah, you bounce. well, you can also bounce with an echoing truth.
also, what if i drop a goblin guide? you would need to get rid of that, so you'd have to bounce it. because of that, you would tap out, and i'd drop something else. so, id say add in force spike. its a FIRST TURN COUNTER.
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Quote from Bone_doc »
This virtual world is begining to feel more and more like Tron, exept with less motorcycles and more card games
i don't think people really get "rid of" goblin guides, why not use some of that CA(possibly). Once it starts to be a threat then you can bounce with an unsummon or whatever. And FTR unsummon is the same mana cost as force spike. And it's instant speed. So the whole first turn counter point isn't really that good.
thanks man, so what should i take out?
i think to myself
-3 boomerang
+2 rushing river
+1 Evacuation (i am on a VERY tight budget, i really dont think i can exceed 10 dollars)
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
-2 Abduction
+4 Rhystic Study
Seriously, the seven cards together cost about $3.75 on blackborder.com, and the shipping is included.
24x Island
Creatures (12 cards)
4x Plumeveil
2x Roil Elemental
4x Sage Owl
2x Sphinx of Jwar Isle
4x Cancel
2x Divination
4x Essence Scatter
2x Ice Cage
1x Jace Beleren
2x Mind Control
4x Negate
4x Ponder
2x Unsummon
Suggestions?(Theres going to be alot.)
Team XsX:rate5:
:ak:This awesome Sig was made by me.:ak:
:Formats I play:
Extended
Vintage
Legacy
Standard(Against my will)
Decks
U Control 1-0-0
Mono Red Burn 0-0-0
:symwg:Allies:symwg: 4-1-0
"Gagnante ne signifie rien sans qualification.." -XsxSobaku
mulldrifter>divination
mana leak > essence scatter and negate
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
I can do everything else however so hows this?
24x Island
Creatures (12 cards)
4x Plumeveil
2x Roil Elemental
4x Sage Owl
2x Sphinx of Jwar Isle
2x Mulldrifter
4x Cancel
4x Essence Scatter
2x Ice Cage
1x Jace Beleren
2x Mind Control
4x Negate
4x Ponder
2x Unsummon
Team XsX:rate5:
:ak:This awesome Sig was made by me.:ak:
:Formats I play:
Extended
Vintage
Legacy
Standard(Against my will)
Decks
U Control 1-0-0
Mono Red Burn 0-0-0
:symwg:Allies:symwg: 4-1-0
"Gagnante ne signifie rien sans qualification.." -XsxSobaku
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
Team XsX:rate5:
:ak:This awesome Sig was made by me.:ak:
:Formats I play:
Extended
Vintage
Legacy
Standard(Against my will)
Decks
U Control 1-0-0
Mono Red Burn 0-0-0
:symwg:Allies:symwg: 4-1-0
"Gagnante ne signifie rien sans qualification.." -XsxSobaku
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
4 Counterspell
4 Rewind
4 Mana leak
4 Force Spike
2 Rushing river
1 Evacuation
3 Echoing truth
1 Mind spring
4 Aeon Chronicler
4 Guile
1 Denizen of the deep
20 Islands
4 fairy conclave
2 Abduction
1 Mind Control
4 Boomerang
2 sleep
This is what it should look like. I already have 4 boomerang, 1 rewind, 1 mind spring, 1 aeon chronicler, 1 guile, 2 abduction, 1 mind control. estimate of how much this would be?
EDIT:
Should i run power sink? makes him tap out first spell he plays for about two, and if he doesnt, then i just counterspell it.
EDIT: im taking out conclave, i dont have more than 15 dollars
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
Hehehe, thats me!
anyways, back onto the help
May i ask, why do you run rushing river? I really hate it very much. a bounce for 3. ewww
FOr your bounce, I would run
3 evacuation( multiplayer, get rid of all your creatures, everybody swing on you)
4x Echoing truth ( a good bounce, kills tokens, gets rid of the 3 daru warchiefs ( inside joke)
You could take out echoing for boomerang or unsummon
The study is good for CA, but i think aeon chronicle is a bit too much mana. Suspending 1 would cost you 5, which would probably leave your mana tapped and letting them play their long awaited card (so you have to get fow). Mind spring is easily better, but if it is too expensive, go for easy draw likediviniation or something.
Thank you for Kennethwong, for inspiring me to do this sig pic when I was bored.
GENERATION 15: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
If you can, force spike should be Daze. Maybe spell pierce.
Into the Roil is draw + bounce.
Chronicler is expensive, and so is Guile. Don't need four of each as you don't need in first several hands.
Denizen is pretty bad. Why not Deep-Sea Kraken or Inkwell Leviathan?
Also, your deck list says "Lands: 22" but you have 24 lands (as you should, don't go below that with this deck).
Not sure if that throws off your counts.
Currently Playing:
denizen is bad, i know, but its FUN. excerpt: "I swing for 11." "I can't block that."
Daze? i mean, force spike i can use first turn without screwing my land drops, and i dont run landfall, which is why its more useful nowadays. ill try it on MTGO and see.
eh, the beatsticks are either cheap or precon rares
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
Thinking of acquiring some Brainstorms and Ponders.
4 Rune Snag
4 Force Spike
4 Arcane Denial
2 Daze
4 Rewind
4 Jester's Scepter
3 Mana Web
3 Arcane Laboratory
4 Thornwind Faeries
2 Curiosity
2 Fatespinner
4 Boomerang
4 Echoing Truth
2 Rhystic Study
4 Isochron Scepter
4 Bribery
Spam warning.
-Memnarch
Daze isn't a great card because of it's' usage in landfall decks, it's because it's a watered down version of Force of Will. Proxy it and playtest a couple games with it. Do not underestimate the power of a counterspell that can be cast for free. A lot of people facing control decks will wait until the MUC player taps out, knowing they can now tap out for hardcasting their progentius or something, and then you Daze it. People often tap out for those "key" game winning spells, because they want to play it the turn they are able to, and the fact that you can tap out to counter/bounce/play other things and still counter something after that is crucial.
Currently Playing:
It really depends on what you are wanting it for. If you only need to protect against specific cards or effects, for example needing to protect enchantments, then its pretty hot, but if you are countering everything and anything, then yes, the draw can be disadvantageous.
I like Bribery as wincon, but I see problems winning against non-creature based decks or simple weenies.
Daze is simply tech and changes the way people play a lot more than Force Spike.
Arcane Denial is not that bad if a Lab is out.
4 Reins of Power
4 Vedalken Shackles
4 Wall of Frost
3 Rainbow Efreet
4 Echoing Truth
4 Spawning Pit
4 Counterspell
4 Cryptic Command
4 Fact or Fiction
25 Islands
The deck's basic function is to survive the early turns using Echoing Truth and Walls of Frost, then using midrange cards like Vedalken Shackles to steal the adversaries creatures. Reins of Power and Vedalken Shackles combo with Spawning Pit allowing me to steal opposing creature then sacrificing them to Spawning Pit, causing a one sided "Wrath" effect. With Vedalken Shackles and Spawning Pit out, every creature I steal, I can sacrifice continually. Luckily, Reins of Power doesn't target, so if I run into shroud guys, I can still steal them and sacrifice them anyway. Rainbow Efreet si a great card, becasue it protects itself from removal, and can be phased out in response to my Reins of Power, in case I don't want the adversary to get it for the turn. Fact or Fiction is basic draw power needed, simple and efficient. Thoughts?
4 Vedalken Shackles
4 Wall of Frost
3 Rainbow Efreet
4 Spawning Pit
4 Counterspell
4 Cryptic Command
25 Islands
original. i'd suggest more counters, then it would seem more.... MUC-ish.
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
MUC:
4 Counterspell
4 Cryptic Command
3 Forbid
4 Impulse
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Augury Adept
3 Vedalken Shackles
4 Propaganda
4 Into the Roil
2 Morphling
24 Islands
Pretty basic. Not a zillion counterspells, just 11. But, loads of draw and board control. I'm still trying Augury Adept, I'm not certain, but it looks promising.
augury adept isnt something you really want, because it isnt as good as a draw. also, you'd tap out on turn three, and they could set up if they're fast enough. replace with ponder
i never became a fan of into the roil. yeah, you cantrip. yeah, you bounce. well, you can also bounce with an echoing truth.
also, what if i drop a goblin guide? you would need to get rid of that, so you'd have to bounce it. because of that, you would tap out, and i'd drop something else. so, id say add in force spike. its a FIRST TURN COUNTER.
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
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[rect=251,67,347,90]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=211881[/rect]
[rect=478,68,566,86]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=208005[/rect]
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Spiderboy4DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja at Heroes of the Plane Studios for the AMAZING sig pic and avvy.