Also, in pre-release I played Blue/Red and it was completely the nut. The amount of threats and control you can play with was unreal. Did anyone else play in pre-release and if so what did you play?
I've played well over 200 games with varying U/B lists and so I'll base my own opinion to your "Building Blocks 2" on these games.
Thoughtseize + Read the bones in any numbers make it very difficult to come back from unless you're playing a Black Devotion type list with Gray Merchant of Asphodel and/or Whip with legitimate targets. Both of which will take you out of a U/B build IMO
Master of Waves is a no-go in this list IMO. You need to be able to protect him and/or use him more aggressively-Top of curve type thing.
Returned Phalanx is actually quiet good in my testing. Against the aggro decks they have to use removal, or they just stall. Not often you can have a wall that commands that amount of respect. The more I tested with him, the more I wanted to draw him.
Prognostic Sphinx is a real threat. I found myself attacking just for the scry 3 often, but its a very slow clock.
Ashiok, what more could be said about her/him that hasn't already been said. I found that either I was playing against someone who valued her about where I did and just ignored her, or, played against someone who over-valued her and she was a great fog for a couple/few turns.
Curse of the Swine is the #1 reason to be playing U/B IMO. its amazing. It deals with absolutely everything including those pesky gods.
When its all said and done I dont think U/B is a thing to be honest. I really really wanted it to be-I played many many versions of it and there are just more powerful things you can do in any number of other color combo's.
Blue and Black are arguably the two worst colors in this set-Red is over powering when it gets what it needs, white has amazing removal and Elspeth, green has fast ramp with huge top ends.
I hope I'm wrong, as I think a U/B will be the only real thing I can afford to get into online, but I just dont see it right now. The closest competitive U/B I got was a very slight U Splash with an aggressive Black base.
I agree on Curse of the Swine: it is a very very good card in block (on monstruosity/heroic cards too it is just insane).
That's why I am planning to play U/G ramp: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?b=9278
It should win pretty easily against other ramp decks, modulo Xenagos. And Dissolve helps against Elspeth.
I quiet like that list man. Update with testing results?
I hope I'm wrong, as I think a U/B will be the only real thing I can afford to get into online, but I just dont see it right now. The closest competitive U/B I got was a very slight U Splash with an aggressive Black base.
Personally I think going with my G/r Ramp deck is going to the be one of the best options out of the gate. I've also started on a third and final list that is R/W. In pre-release I've seen some and played against some extremely aggro lists and with so little removal in the set, I think this is where I want to be.
Personally I think going with my G/r Ramp deck is going to the be one of the best options out of the gate. I've also started on a third and final list that is R/W. In pre-release I've seen some and played against some extremely aggro lists and with so little removal in the set, I think this is where I want to be.
Thoughts?
Can you convince me that the deck doesnt just die to anger?
Can you convince me that the deck doesnt just die to anger?
the red white list is very vulnerable to anger of the gods, i wont argue that. but just because there is a decent wrath spell doesnt mean that aggro won't be able to beat it.Supreme verdictand Mizzium Mortars have been around a all rtr block, yet rakdos aggro, mono red and g/w still wreck shop.
I have to say all good stuff thanks. Um... if trying to make the best deck do this.... make what you like to play that is magic..... if you want to make a deck that wins that is something that requires luck, good know how...., then a lot of reading up and understanding what your up against.
I feel find the exact things in this block that you should look out for and then remove them. Then find out what exactly is best on making the most out of the current format. I would like to have people not only list decks in a way but str and weaknesses also.
I seen a few doing that and thank you anything else
What I am working on is a current block deck using for me red/white. Thanks
Fabled hero/Wingsteed rider/Favored hoplite + any targetting easily survives anger. Gods Willing can save your best creature. If you don't get it on turn three, they will often be able to have a creature survive it and just kill you. On the good draws, they have a 4/5 on turn 3, or a 5/5 on turn 4. If they are on the play, you have a one turn window to get the 5/5 and the 4/5 is nigh unkillable. Anger is still a good card, but I don't think it is unbeatable like you want it to be.
Personally I think going with my G/r Ramp deck is going to the be one of the best options out of the gate. I've also started on a third and final list that is R/W. In pre-release I've seen some and played against some extremely aggro lists and with so little removal in the set, I think this is where I want to be.
Thoughts?
Your updated list is good, pretty much exactly what I was playing at the end of my testing. Though admittedly I never thought of trying Mnemonic Wall, Not entirely convinced it would have changed anything but it does allow some late game reach. I might have to try it.
Reaper of the Wilds is a complete beast. Wish the Black/Green shell was a little better so that I can be something to build around.
What are you guys feelings about a Blue/Green ramp deck? Having a card like Prophet of Kruphix seems strong enough to build around. Being able to flash a creature at an end step and then make it monstrous the next seems pretty solid. You could flash in bestow and use them almost as combat tricks too.
The rest of the deck around it seems like it could work as well. Having Dissolve and Swan Song to protect your creatures. Not to mention great removal with Curse of the Swine.
Yeah by turn 5 I think most all things should have been played out of my hand an I should be using additional resources to go monstrous. Dont you think prophet helps with that for every carded played after it? It also opens the deck to being able to swing with our huge creatures and then untapping them to let them block.
Speaking up UG Ramp... Shipbreak Kraken seems like it can open a lot of doors for a ramp deck, locking down 4 creatures. Plus if you add in the bident of thassa making their creatures attack into our huge creatures (pseudo removal). Then swinging back and drawing cards. Not to mention that paired with Nylea and giving all creatures trample it should be easy to get some points of damage through and start starting cards. Cards, that if you have the prophet out, you can play on your turn and an opponents.
I don't know if I've entered Magical Christmas land here but I'm starting to convince myself to start a brew.
the red white list is very vulnerable to anger of the gods, i wont argue that. but just because there is a decent wrath spell doesnt mean that aggro won't be able to beat it.Supreme verdictand Mizzium Mortars have been around a all rtr block, yet rakdos aggro, mono red and g/w still wreck shop.
The aggro decks of RTR and Theros block are going to be very different though. The RTR ones could kill realistically on turn 3 and on the play a turn 4 kill was still before verdict mana and well before the sweeper portion of mortars. That doesn't even get into the fact that anger of the gods costs 3, not 4.
Fabled hero/Wingsteed rider/Favored hoplite + any targetting easily survives anger. Gods Willing can save your best creature. If you don't get it on turn three, they will often be able to have a creature survive it and just kill you. On the good draws, they have a 4/5 on turn 3, or a 5/5 on turn 4. If they are on the play, you have a one turn window to get the 5/5 and the 4/5 is nigh unkillable. Anger is still a good card, but I don't think it is unbeatable like you want it to be.
All 3 you listed require either 2 targeted spells or 1 that also adds a counter. 2 of them cost 3 mana themselves. Not sure how that translates to "easily survives anger". Suggesting God's willing to save one is also somewhat strange in my opinion as that means leaving mana open in a deck that is supposed to be going for high amounts of speed. So a 4/5 on turn 3 implies 3 targeting spells, a few lands and the creature. So you'd have what, 2-3 cards left in hand? When they hero's downfall that creature, what do you do? I stated it earlier but I really feel as though a heroic focused deck is going to suffer very real problems with consistence. You want enough enablers and creatures so a draw heavy on one would be very lackluster.
I should have specified that the targeting spells I plan on running in the deck, are ordeals and hopeful eidolons. Both of which get the creature up to four toughness the turn they are played. If I can't attack with an ordealed creature, I am pretty sure I lose that game anyway you look at it, especially if it is an early turn. With the deck, there are two general draws I find, the voltron and the swarm. Voltron is good against anger, but swarm is better versus the limited removal of the set. Sideboarding will adjust which plan you want for which deck. Plus sometimes, they stumble on mana, or just don't have it and die. ( the classic aggro hope ;P)
Yeah, i'm pretty sure any deck with anger of the gods and spot removal backing it up beats mono red.
It sure hurts it, hurts it bad. And I don't think that it is limited to mono red. This is pretty damn good main board matchup against most decks, totally worth the mainboard.
Yeah, these decks look slower and less consistent aggro wise than the RtR block ones, and they 100% would have died to anger to the point of simply not existing. I can possible see the ordeal plan happening (so, so much worse to spot removal though) but any bestow hope is too slow. Gods willing doesn't do it either, you need a brave the elements or boors charm type effect for that to work.
In the end, i think it comes down to whether and how much gods willing is played main deck, but it seems to own the archetype on a pretty fundamental level
Right now I have a very good Americana deck oh doggy it is good Red/White/Blue all the way
Took a good hard look at Red deck wins and put in nice White/blue or white/red lands then little chains, Elspeth, Red god, Master of the waves. Life is good
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I've played well over 200 games with varying U/B lists and so I'll base my own opinion to your "Building Blocks 2" on these games.
Thoughtseize + Read the bones in any numbers make it very difficult to come back from unless you're playing a Black Devotion type list with Gray Merchant of Asphodel and/or Whip with legitimate targets. Both of which will take you out of a U/B build IMO
Master of Waves is a no-go in this list IMO. You need to be able to protect him and/or use him more aggressively-Top of curve type thing.
Returned Phalanx is actually quiet good in my testing. Against the aggro decks they have to use removal, or they just stall. Not often you can have a wall that commands that amount of respect. The more I tested with him, the more I wanted to draw him.
Prognostic Sphinx is a real threat. I found myself attacking just for the scry 3 often, but its a very slow clock.
Ashiok, what more could be said about her/him that hasn't already been said. I found that either I was playing against someone who valued her about where I did and just ignored her, or, played against someone who over-valued her and she was a great fog for a couple/few turns.
Curse of the Swine is the #1 reason to be playing U/B IMO. its amazing. It deals with absolutely everything including those pesky gods.
When its all said and done I dont think U/B is a thing to be honest. I really really wanted it to be-I played many many versions of it and there are just more powerful things you can do in any number of other color combo's.
Blue and Black are arguably the two worst colors in this set-Red is over powering when it gets what it needs, white has amazing removal and Elspeth, green has fast ramp with huge top ends.
I hope I'm wrong, as I think a U/B will be the only real thing I can afford to get into online, but I just dont see it right now. The closest competitive U/B I got was a very slight U Splash with an aggressive Black base.
My .02c
I quiet like that list man. Update with testing results?
Thanks Gammy. I also agree with all of what you said. I've since altered my list to get to a 3 version. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/theros-block-blueblack/
Personally I think going with my G/r Ramp deck is going to the be one of the best options out of the gate. I've also started on a third and final list that is R/W. In pre-release I've seen some and played against some extremely aggro lists and with so little removal in the set, I think this is where I want to be.
Thoughts?
Can you convince me that the deck doesnt just die to anger?
the red white list is very vulnerable to anger of the gods, i wont argue that. but just because there is a decent wrath spell doesnt mean that aggro won't be able to beat it.Supreme verdictand Mizzium Mortars have been around a all rtr block, yet rakdos aggro, mono red and g/w still wreck shop.
I feel find the exact things in this block that you should look out for and then remove them. Then find out what exactly is best on making the most out of the current format. I would like to have people not only list decks in a way but str and weaknesses also.
I seen a few doing that and thank you anything else
What I am working on is a current block deck using for me red/white. Thanks
I have idea of sick BG deck, however it lacks dual land. However green have a lot of fixing...
Your updated list is good, pretty much exactly what I was playing at the end of my testing. Though admittedly I never thought of trying Mnemonic Wall, Not entirely convinced it would have changed anything but it does allow some late game reach. I might have to try it.
G/R ramp is a thing. Anger is also a thing. I found that G/R eventually just gets threats out that Anger doesn't answer.
There is quiet a bit of fixing I'd say sleever up.
Share list?
My is a little more cointroling, wanted to use some inteaction with heroic assassin to get card advantage this way.
What are you guys feelings about a Blue/Green ramp deck? Having a card like Prophet of Kruphix seems strong enough to build around. Being able to flash a creature at an end step and then make it monstrous the next seems pretty solid. You could flash in bestow and use them almost as combat tricks too.
The rest of the deck around it seems like it could work as well. Having Dissolve and Swan Song to protect your creatures. Not to mention great removal with Curse of the Swine.
Speaking up UG Ramp... Shipbreak Kraken seems like it can open a lot of doors for a ramp deck, locking down 4 creatures. Plus if you add in the bident of thassa making their creatures attack into our huge creatures (pseudo removal). Then swinging back and drawing cards. Not to mention that paired with Nylea and giving all creatures trample it should be easy to get some points of damage through and start starting cards. Cards, that if you have the prophet out, you can play on your turn and an opponents.
I don't know if I've entered Magical Christmas land here but I'm starting to convince myself to start a brew.
The aggro decks of RTR and Theros block are going to be very different though. The RTR ones could kill realistically on turn 3 and on the play a turn 4 kill was still before verdict mana and well before the sweeper portion of mortars. That doesn't even get into the fact that anger of the gods costs 3, not 4.
All 3 you listed require either 2 targeted spells or 1 that also adds a counter. 2 of them cost 3 mana themselves. Not sure how that translates to "easily survives anger". Suggesting God's willing to save one is also somewhat strange in my opinion as that means leaving mana open in a deck that is supposed to be going for high amounts of speed. So a 4/5 on turn 3 implies 3 targeting spells, a few lands and the creature. So you'd have what, 2-3 cards left in hand? When they hero's downfall that creature, what do you do? I stated it earlier but I really feel as though a heroic focused deck is going to suffer very real problems with consistence. You want enough enablers and creatures so a draw heavy on one would be very lackluster.
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It sure hurts it, hurts it bad. And I don't think that it is limited to mono red. This is pretty damn good main board matchup against most decks, totally worth the mainboard.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
In the end, i think it comes down to whether and how much gods willing is played main deck, but it seems to own the archetype on a pretty fundamental level
Took a good hard look at Red deck wins and put in nice White/blue or white/red lands then little chains, Elspeth, Red god, Master of the waves. Life is good