I didn't see the games, but 3-0 vs esper is a huge testament to the power of the deck. Voice is the best card in block, period, and this deck is the best shell right now. Esper can be built to beat it, but the pro tour lists aren't the ones to look at. Moar 2 mana removal, also woodlot crawler.
I didn't see the games, but 3-0 vs esper is a huge testament to the power of the deck. Voice is the best card in block, period, and this deck is the best shell right now. Esper can be built to beat it, but the pro tour lists aren't the ones to look at. Moar 2 mana removal, also woodlot crawler.
I think Wescoe's deck is better suited that other GW decks to beat revelation decks. GW really needs to curve out to beat sphinx's revelation decks. You have to put pressure on revelation decks during the first 3 turns. His curve stops at 4 and he's main decking 4 rootborn defenses. I don't think scion of vitu-ghazi is where you want to be. Pat Cox was playing a 26 land deck (w/ scion) and he went 0-6 vs esper. Ali Aintrazi went 8-2 over all but played against less esper. I think playing a higher curve makes you better in the mirror however. They also only main decked 2 rootborn defenses.
Yes, wescoe pre-boarded against esper/control which is an adjustable meta call. The birds are also adjustable. His board is brutal against anything trying to race him.
Also agree that the scion version is way worse vs control.
Seems like a mediocre answer; the worm token tramples and with main deck selysnia charm giving trample is an option too.
the only reason I mention it is that it's the only 2 mana 1 for 1 answer for voice that I can think of. All of the other ways to answer it 1 for 1 are way more expensive or just narrow (blood baron, arrest and repeatable tap/detain effects). And voice is probably the best card in the esper matchup.
Seems like a mediocre answer; the worm token tramples and with main deck selysnia charm giving trample is an option too.
Sure he's not great against trampling threats, but he will never die in those matchups. Woodlot Crawler is one of the best answers to both selesnya and golgari decks, the only other really good creature option would probably be blood baron.
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Those stats are very intresting. Looks like everything is somewhat evenly matched, no deck is the "best" deck. I was really expecting to see at least something put up greater win percentages.
Or are the small percentage point differences actually significantly important?
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
So looking at the 18 points or better list, I see zero vraskas. That card is garbage. I'm tempted to sell the rest of mine off, but i'm sure some guy will top 8 an event with it and it'll shoot up to 10 or something stupid.
I also thought no one was running Aetherlings, but it turns out that wotc is still bad and can't figure out the Æ character. This problem has been there for a while, I remember looking over some modern merfolk lists that didn't have Æther vial.
Those stats are very intresting. Looks like everything is somewhat evenly matched, no deck is the "best" deck. I was really expecting to see at least something put up greater win percentages.
Or are the small percentage point differences actually significantly important?
no, that data shows a very, very even field. He points out that in the previous pro tour there were 5 decks with a winrate greater than the top one here and there's usually something with 60%.
Those 6-4 and better lists are great to see, I'm going to do lots of datamining on them for my article this week. I love the possibility storms in the brazilian team's naya list :).
I dunno if the pro tour numbers are reliable on this point given meta differences with modo, but GB was a very, very under-represented deck compared to modo atm. My gut feel is that the GB deck was the first one people flocked too because it's pretty cheap, but it won't have long term staying power esp vs blood baron. I could be wrong. The GW deck can at least beat the baron by being faster, the GB deck just can't (varolz and goliath are so, so slow).
I dunno if the pro tour numbers are reliable on this point given meta differences with modo, but GB was a very, very under-represented deck compared to modo atm. My gut feel is that the GB deck was the first one people flocked too because it's pretty cheap, but it won't have long term staying power esp vs blood baron. I could be wrong. The GW deck can at least beat the baron by being faster, the GB deck just can't (varolz and goliath are so, so slow).
If it wasn't for the *** aetherling issue, I'd have perfect data. I've conveted that 6-4 deck page into a spreadsheet, separated main and sideboards, but am stumped re aetherling. What I could do is assume that no one played aetherise but not an entirely safe assumption given that people might have played it sideboard), which means that every missing card is an aetherling. Then I can simply add up all the missing cards based on sideboards less than 15 cards and main decks less than 60.
If it wasn't for the *** aetherling issue, I'd have perfect data. I've conveted that 6-4 deck page into a spreadsheet, separated main and sideboards, but am stumped re aetherling. What I could do is assume that no one played aetherise but not an entirely safe assumption given that people might have played it sideboard), which means that every missing card is an aetherling. Then I can simply add up all the missing cards based on sideboards less than 15 cards and main decks less than 60.
They tell you on the page how many cards are listed in the deck. But I guess that doesn't help if you already extracted all the txt files.
I don't know why they still use it rather than doing what they did with Ethersworn Canonist (Etherium I know..) I'm guessing the only reason they didn't name it Aetherium is because of the number of cards with it in the name.
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My gut feel is that the GB deck was the first one people flocked too because it's pretty cheap, but it won't have long term staying power esp vs blood baron. I could be wrong. The GW deck can at least beat the baron by being faster, the GB deck just can't (varolz and goliath are so, so slow).
I completely agree, I think that alot of control decks are figuring out how to beat it and it will decrease in popularity. Which will lead to decks like mono red and boros aggro rising in popularity to beat control. Which will lead to golgari rising in popularity...........:na:
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
alright, well i'm just going to make that assumption. If it's true, there were 109 aetherlings played maindeck, 20 sideboard. I'll save the rest of the analysis for my article, but as a sneak peek here's the top 10 cards other than basics, in order:
Hallowed Fountain
Jace, Architect of Thought
Temple Garden
Sphinx's Revelation
Supreme Verdict
Voice of Resurgence
Godless Shrine
Azorius Guildgate
Azorius Charm
Loxodon Smiter
If it wasn't for the *** aetherling issue, I'd have perfect data. I've conveted that 6-4 deck page into a spreadsheet, separated main and sideboards, but am stumped re aetherling. What I could do is assume that no one played aetherise but not an entirely safe assumption given that people might have played it sideboard), which means that every missing card is an aetherling. Then I can simply add up all the missing cards based on sideboards less than 15 cards and main decks less than 60.
I know there is some aetherizes too, one of the freature matches had someone with it sided in against RDW. I think in most cases it should be pretty obvious though, it'll just take looking at each one individually sadly.
the only reason I mention it is that it's the only 2 mana 1 for 1 answer for voice that I can think of. All of the other ways to answer it 1 for 1 are way more expensive or just narrow (blood baron, arrest and repeatable tap/detain effects). And voice is probably the best card in the esper matchup.
I still feel like Woodrot Crawler is going to be bad. In an GW aggro or midrange verdict will likely be one of your best cards, which interacts poorly with the crawler.
I don't think they is much that is going to be effective against voice. It was said in the videos it was specifically made to combat revelation decks, so an easy answer to it would be as useful as Frontline Medic is at combating it.
alright, well i'm just going to make that assumption. If it's true, there were 109 aetherlings played maindeck, 20 sideboard. I'll save the rest of the analysis for my article, but as a sneak peek here's the top 10 cards other than basics, in order:
Hallowed Fountain
Jace, Architect of Thought
Temple Garden
Sphinx's Revelation
Supreme Verdict
Voice of Resurgence
Godless Shrine
Azorius Guildgate
Azorius Charm
Loxodon Smiter
Just a thought: You should probably exclude any land that just produces mana. I doubt anyone will be surprised that the shocklands are heavily played.
Sure, here's top top 10 non-land. Note that advent and aetherling are exactly tied:
Jace, Architect of Thought
Sphinx's Revelation
Supreme Verdict
Voice of Resurgence
Azorius Charm
Loxodon Smiter
Far // Away
Detention Sphere
Sin Collector
Advent of the Wurm
Aetherling
Sure, here's top top 10 non-land. Note that advent and aetherling are exactly tied:
Jace, Architect of Thought
Sphinx's Revelation
Supreme Verdict
Voice of Resurgence
Azorius Charm
Loxodon Smiter
Far // Away
Detention Sphere
Sin Collector
Advent of the Wurm
Aetherling
I'm surprised that Jace was higher than Sphinx's, I don't think that would be true of the online meta.
Wow, just looking at those numbers it's quite easy to see which direction the meta was leaning. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. Lots of pros lean heavily toward blue, Patrick Sullivan and Craig Wescoe aside...
Voice is a real card, and I think it's only going to get more prevalent as people start to realize that the hype was justified. Its price has shot up 10 tix online just today.
a couple of twitter snippets I just found relevant to the other discussions happening around here:
Kibler discussing the final match vs wescoe "Mihara has four Woodlot Crawlers, which are super good"
Josh Utter-Leyton on his boros bliz deck, which is basically the modo mono red deck splashing boros charm and frontline medic, vs wescoe - "Well that went about as expected. Thought he was a small favorite if he mulled to 5 every game but instead it was me mulling."
also, team CFB did awesomely well in constructed, their limited let them down a bit:
LSV - "not counting my match against @shaharshahar_ (because it was the 75-card mirror), the 8 of us with Esper had a 65.15 win %."
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I think Wescoe's deck is better suited that other GW decks to beat revelation decks. GW really needs to curve out to beat sphinx's revelation decks. You have to put pressure on revelation decks during the first 3 turns. His curve stops at 4 and he's main decking 4 rootborn defenses. I don't think scion of vitu-ghazi is where you want to be. Pat Cox was playing a 26 land deck (w/ scion) and he went 0-6 vs esper. Ali Aintrazi went 8-2 over all but played against less esper. I think playing a higher curve makes you better in the mirror however. They also only main decked 2 rootborn defenses.
This is the other GW deck for reference
Also agree that the scion version is way worse vs control.
the only reason I mention it is that it's the only 2 mana 1 for 1 answer for voice that I can think of. All of the other ways to answer it 1 for 1 are way more expensive or just narrow (blood baron, arrest and repeatable tap/detain effects). And voice is probably the best card in the esper matchup.
Sure he's not great against trampling threats, but he will never die in those matchups. Woodlot Crawler is one of the best answers to both selesnya and golgari decks, the only other really good creature option would probably be blood baron.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
(Esper was .04% higher than bant)
Also some decklists, 18 points or better:
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/ptdgm13/Top_Block
Or are the small percentage point differences actually significantly important?
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I also thought no one was running Aetherlings, but it turns out that wotc is still bad and can't figure out the Æ character. This problem has been there for a while, I remember looking over some modern merfolk lists that didn't have Æther vial.
no, that data shows a very, very even field. He points out that in the previous pro tour there were 5 decks with a winrate greater than the top one here and there's usually something with 60%.
Those 6-4 and better lists are great to see, I'm going to do lots of datamining on them for my article this week. I love the possibility storms in the brazilian team's naya list :).
I dunno if the pro tour numbers are reliable on this point given meta differences with modo, but GB was a very, very under-represented deck compared to modo atm. My gut feel is that the GB deck was the first one people flocked too because it's pretty cheap, but it won't have long term staying power esp vs blood baron. I could be wrong. The GW deck can at least beat the baron by being faster, the GB deck just can't (varolz and goliath are so, so slow).
You have to do some math on the blue decks. They have missing aetherlings.
People played junk since voice is really good.
Here's kibler's list
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple Garden
3 Orzhov Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Plains
4 Forest
1 Swamp
Creatures
4 Experiment One
2 Dryad Militant
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Lotleth Troll
2 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
3 Dreg Mangler
3 Loxodon Smiter
2 Sin Collector
3 Desecration Demon
3 Putrefy
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Gift of Orzhova
2 Gaze of Granite
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2 Sin Collector
2 Debtor's Pulpit
1 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
2 Underworld Connections
1 Golgari Charm
If it wasn't for the *** aetherling issue, I'd have perfect data. I've conveted that 6-4 deck page into a spreadsheet, separated main and sideboards, but am stumped re aetherling. What I could do is assume that no one played aetherise but not an entirely safe assumption given that people might have played it sideboard), which means that every missing card is an aetherling. Then I can simply add up all the missing cards based on sideboards less than 15 cards and main decks less than 60.
They tell you on the page how many cards are listed in the deck. But I guess that doesn't help if you already extracted all the txt files.
I completely agree, I think that alot of control decks are figuring out how to beat it and it will decrease in popularity. Which will lead to decks like mono red and boros aggro rising in popularity to beat control. Which will lead to golgari rising in popularity...........:na:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Hallowed Fountain
Jace, Architect of Thought
Temple Garden
Sphinx's Revelation
Supreme Verdict
Voice of Resurgence
Godless Shrine
Azorius Guildgate
Azorius Charm
Loxodon Smiter
I know there is some aetherizes too, one of the freature matches had someone with it sided in against RDW. I think in most cases it should be pretty obvious though, it'll just take looking at each one individually sadly.
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http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/ptdgm13/Top_8_Decks
I don't think they is much that is going to be effective against voice. It was said in the videos it was specifically made to combat revelation decks, so an easy answer to it would be as useful as Frontline Medic is at combating it.
Just a thought: You should probably exclude any land that just produces mana. I doubt anyone will be surprised that the shocklands are heavily played.
Theros Myth Origins Part 1 WUBRG Part 2 GRBUW Born of the Gods
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Full article list
Jace, Architect of Thought
Sphinx's Revelation
Supreme Verdict
Voice of Resurgence
Azorius Charm
Loxodon Smiter
Far // Away
Detention Sphere
Sin Collector
Advent of the Wurm
Aetherling
I'm surprised that Jace was higher than Sphinx's, I don't think that would be true of the online meta.
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Voice is a real card, and I think it's only going to get more prevalent as people start to realize that the hype was justified. Its price has shot up 10 tix online just today.
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Kibler discussing the final match vs wescoe "Mihara has four Woodlot Crawlers, which are super good"
Josh Utter-Leyton on his boros bliz deck, which is basically the modo mono red deck splashing boros charm and frontline medic, vs wescoe - "Well that went about as expected. Thought he was a small favorite if he mulled to 5 every game but instead it was me mulling."
also, team CFB did awesomely well in constructed, their limited let them down a bit:
LSV - "not counting my match against @shaharshahar_ (because it was the 75-card mirror), the 8 of us with Esper had a 65.15 win %."