I'm going to add a sac outlet for Academy Rector. Adding 4x Cabal Therapy. We're already running black, this disruption spell is fantastic allowing us to clear the way for our more important plays, and sacs rector for value.
edit: after reading the reasoning behind Whitesun's passage being added (a safety net) I just wanted to mention that ages ago when Phyrexian Processor was a new card, people played it with Crumbling Sanctuary so they could make giant creatures and not worry as much about their life total going low.
With all the removal everyone is always running I think we need an instant speed reaction to direct damage and the removal of our angel. For example if they exile/destroy our angel and slam in with a bolt or ramp over the top with a wide spread attack we will be up a creek when it comes to answers. When looking at WP we can have at least a chance of surviving something wide and we totally negate most of the direct damage options. This gives us a chance to get a new angel up or find a way to win. This is what I would do if i decide to build this deck. Of course, everyone is different in regard to building
Adding something that would benefit Necro/Bargain. Mine, Mine, Mine!. Okay, seriously, Reliquary Tower. It doesn't take up a vital spell slot like Spell Book would. This also opens up Rabid's suggestion- Gerrard's Wisdom to be viable.
I'm also voting against the Cloak in favor of something else, like Lightning Greaves or even Mask of Avacyn.
Also, putting the last vote against Whitesun Passage. it's a meager life gain for not much advantage. GONE.
SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
Adding something that would benefit Necro/Bargain. Mine, Mine, Mine!. Okay, seriously, Reliquary Tower. It doesn't take up a vital spell slot like Spell Book would. This also opens up Rabid's suggestion- Gerrard's Wisdom to be viable.
As well as Gerrard's Wisdom would fit this deck I think it would be pushing us further towards the general Necro/Bargain plan and away from Exquisite Archangel, so I'm hesitant to add it to the deck.
imo, the Angel is a hard card to build around; it's more an auxillary/failsafe card like Platinum Angel. building around a "when you would lose" card, means building a "how can i lose on my own terms?" deck- ie: suicide black. Mill isn't optional, since you still have no deck and would lose to topdecking.
Ideally, we don't more than one angel out at a time, because i think they would all trigger if the criteria is met.
just saying.
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SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
I would like to know where the second vote for WP came from. FTW noted it but didn't defend the cohoice or explain the notation
The notation goes from 1 @ -2 to 2 @ -2 then back to 1 @-2 then got cut...... someone please fix their notation
I fixed mine. I think what happened is I quoted the post, got up walked away (before submitting) and when I came back FTW1987 had edited their post to add a vote against the card and I didn't notice.
Ok, thanks for the clarification. Though im sad to see WP go and I will add it to my list if I build the deck, the collective has spoken even though I belive the decision is a bit short sighted.
Honestly this deck is not something I would ever envision so I am at a loss as to the next step.
Ok, thanks for the clarification. Though im sad to see WP go and I will add it to my list if I build the deck, the collective has spoken even though I belive the decision is a bit short sighted.
Honestly this deck is not something I would ever envision so I am at a loss as to the next step.
Add win-conditions. The Angel is only a 5/5, and we only have 2 Processors. Bond of Agony would be fun after we get the Angel to drop.
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SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
I'll 3rd vote the Whispersilk Cloaks. I don't like how much mana they need compared to greaves. Voting to remove all of them. Since I'm showing 2 @ -2, I'm cutting them.
Our curve seems pretty high especially in the creatures I would suggest getting a good one drop in there. Personally I'd go with Soul Warden but I'd like a collective thought before adding it
Our curve seems pretty high especially in the creatures I would suggest getting a good one drop in there. Personally I'd go with Soul Warden but I'd like a collective thought before adding it
The main win con of the old necro deck was Drain Life. I wonder if Death Grasp would be a good add.
Death Grasp is good. it would be fun with Channel. GGWB: Deal 19 damage to target opponent, gain 19 life. Sac Children, gain 19 more life. Add 2 Death Grasp, as we need win cons, and drawing into it and Channel may as well spell victory.
SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
I also want to give green a fighting chance to make the cut. Adding 1 Cadaverous Bloom. I hope we make some cuts before the cutting phase to make room for cards like Vampiric Tutor and Demonic Tutor.
The main win con of the old necro deck was Drain Life. I wonder if Death Grasp would be a good add.
I was hoping to add 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn to cheat out with Channel. The deck is full now, but we can do the same thing with Channel into Death Grasp. Since Channel lasts for the whole turn, you can stockpile colorless mana, cycle through multiple Archangels and Children of Korlis to gain life, then cast a huge Death's Grasp. That's a hilarious way to win the game!
77 cards. Does that mean we're on to the cutting phase before adding Vampiric Tutor?
BTW Demonic Tutor should be in the deck already. I added it above. GumGodMTG might have quoted the wrong post, missing me adding Demonic Tutor (and also my vote against Whitesun's Passage).
Quote from Kamikazi339 »
Ok, thanks for the clarification. Though im sad to see WP go and I will add it to my list if I build the deck, the collective has spoken even though I belive the decision is a bit short sighted.
Sorry. I didn't explain my vote well. Was Whitesun's Passage to protect us from losing the game if Angel is killed? There are better lifegain options. The deck already had Claws of Gix (which also sacs Rector or breaks Necro locks) and now has Children of Korlis too.
Suicide is not a risk. Opponent can't kill Angel in response to its ability. It's a replacement effect, not a triggered ability, and our life loss all happens as a cost. Say we're at 1 life and pay 1 life to draw with Necro or Bargain. We immediately drop down to 0 life as part of the cost, lose the game when state-based effects are checked, and then Angel's replacement effect gains us 20 life. None of this goes on the stack. The opponent cannot respond by killing the Angel and causing us to lose. It happens immediately.
Opponent can only kill Angel before we hit 0 life. If opponent tries to kill Angel and we have Necro or Bargain in play or Channel active, in response we can pay all our life, lose the game, set off the replacement effect, and go back up to 20. All that happens in response to whatever opponent tries to do to kill Angel (unless it's Split Second). So it's actually very hard for removal to interfere with Angel and cause us to suicide.
Children of Korlis is the most broken and mana efficient lifegain card we could run and gives some redundancy to Angels. Good find. Since it counts total life lost this turn, not net life lost, if we went down to 0 and back up to 20 more than once, Korlis can gain us 40+ life for 1 mana. Then the next one can gain 80. With all the Archangels and Yawgmoth's Will, Death Grasp for 1000 should be possible.
Sorry. I didn't explain my vote well. Was Whitesun's Passage to protect us from losing the game if Angel is killed? There are better lifegain options. The deck already had Claws of Gix (which also sacs Rector or breaks Necro locks) and now has Children of Korlis too.
That's exactly what it was for. If anyone knows our plan all they have to do is target angel to shut us down
Burn - let us kill ourselves down kill the angel and direct damage to face for the win
Go wide strategies (probably some variation of G/W)- same deal let us kill ourselves exile the angel and Crip walk on our face like they own the place
Control- Let us kill ourselves, counter important pieces. And even if we do stick angel they will use removal and come at us with their finisher on a short board
Aggro- we're probably done anyway to be honest
These are just the ideals I have and WP would have given us a chance against most if not all of them. Now if u think im wrong that's cool I am ok with criticism. I just think we need and oh ***** button if we lose an angel and need a turn to get one back up
Now obviously this thought process was pre children which I guess? Can do sorta the same thing. I just don't like it
That's exactly what it was for. If anyone knows our plan all they have to do is target angel to shut us down
Burn - let us kill ourselves down kill the angel and direct damage to face for the win
Go wide strategies (probably some variation of G/W)- same deal let us kill ourselves exile the angel and Crip walk on our face like they own the place
Did you read the rest of my comment? If we have both the Angel AND "kill ourselves" in play, they can't shut us down. In response to killing the Angel we can pay all our life and go back up to 20. They can't respond. If both Angel and Necro/Bargain/Channel are active, they can't stop us from resetting to 20. I think you're worrying about a non-issue or may be unaware of the rules interactions.
They might use removal to force us to blow the Angel and then attack us for 20 with the shields down. But if they can do that, "gain 5 life" won't help much. We're losing that game either way. Even without killing Angel, they'd eventually kill us with combat damage.
If we never get Necro/Bargain/Channel, sure they can kill Angel and kill us. But then we also aren't dying from suicide... just losing to 20 damage like regular Magic.
If we have Necro/Bargain/Channel/Processor but no Angel, then we risk dropping too low and dying to little damage. As long as we don't pay too much life before we have a Children or Angel, we're fine. Just play smart and wait until it's safe before paying life. It's only dangerous if we gamble paying 10+ life into Bargain to try to draw an Angel and fail. With 4 Angels + 3 Children + draw spells and tutors, it's pretty likely we'll dig into a way to reset life.
It seems to me we only have about 3 "kill ourselves" cards all of which have downside. Of those 3 only 2 can be used as an instant response (sans channel). 2 of 60 seems like a bit of a stretch even with tutors..... Maybe im paranoid though
It seems to me we only have about 3 "kill ourselves" cards all of which have downside. Of those 3 only 2 can be used as an instant response (sans channel). 2 of 60 seems like a bit of a stretch even with tutors..... Maybe im paranoid though
Yes, maybe we won't have Bargain. Or it could get killed or countered. But if we don't have those 3 of 60 cards, we're also not killing ourselves. I thought you were worried about the "let us kill ourselves" part. If we're paying dangerous amounts of life, those same cards also protect us. If we don't have them, we're not paying dangerous amounts of life and just losing to 20 damage like normal Magic.
What's the issue? We're not trying to play Pillowfort and be invincible to combat damage over many turns, are we? Using Angel as a bad Platinum Angel seems like a bad idea. It only lasts once. I like using Angel as short-term protection or to draw the deck and Death Grasp for 100 better, but I'm just 1 vote.
EDIT: Where are we at with the deck? Cutting phase?
I'm adding back the Demonic Tutor that was dropped by accident.
I'm voting against Priest of Gix. Good value in general, but it doesn't help advance any of the game plans as far as I can see. I'm also voting against 1 Dimir House Guard. It's less efficient than other draw/search options in the list, and there are too few 4cc targets to need a full 4 copies. I'm also voting against 1 Ghost Council. Now that we can transmute into it, 1 should be enough.
4 Exquisite archangel
4 Academy Rector
4 Priest of Gix
2 Ghost Council of Orzhova
Artifact 6
2 Phyrexian Processor
2 Whispersilk Cloak (1 @ +1)
2 Claws of Gix
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Defense of the Heart
Instants 6
4 Dark Ritual
2 Whitesun's Passage (2 @ -2)
1 Channel
1 Balance
4 Cabal Therapy
Lands 24
4 Scrubland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Ancient Tomb
15 Elephant Graveyard
With all the removal everyone is always running I think we need an instant speed reaction to direct damage and the removal of our angel. For example if they exile/destroy our angel and slam in with a bolt or ramp over the top with a wide spread attack we will be up a creek when it comes to answers. When looking at WP we can have at least a chance of surviving something wide and we totally negate most of the direct damage options. This gives us a chance to get a new angel up or find a way to win. This is what I would do if i decide to build this deck. Of course, everyone is different in regard to building
I'm also voting against the Cloak in favor of something else, like Lightning Greaves or even Mask of Avacyn.
Also, putting the last vote against Whitesun Passage. it's a meager life gain for not much advantage. GONE.
4 Exquisite archangel
4 Academy Rector
4 Priest of Gix
2 Ghost Council of Orzhova
Artifact 6
2 Phyrexian Processor
2 Whispersilk Cloak (1 @ +1, 1 @ -2)
2 Claws of Gix
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Defense of the Heart
Instants 4
4 Dark Ritual
Sorcery 6
1 Channel
1 Balance
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Reliquary Tower
4 Scrubland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Ancient Tomb
11 Elephant Graveyard
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
imo, the Angel is a hard card to build around; it's more an auxillary/failsafe card like Platinum Angel. building around a "when you would lose" card, means building a "how can i lose on my own terms?" deck- ie: suicide black. Mill isn't optional, since you still have no deck and would lose to topdecking.
Ideally, we don't more than one angel out at a time, because i think they would all trigger if the criteria is met.
just saying.
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
The notation goes from 1 @ -2 to 2 @ -2 then back to 1 @-2 then got cut...... someone please fix their notation
I fixed mine. I think what happened is I quoted the post, got up walked away (before submitting) and when I came back FTW1987 had edited their post to add a vote against the card and I didn't notice.
Honestly this deck is not something I would ever envision so I am at a loss as to the next step.
Add win-conditions. The Angel is only a 5/5, and we only have 2 Processors. Bond of Agony would be fun after we get the Angel to drop.
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
4 Exquisite archangel
4 Academy Rector
4 Priest of Gix
2 Ghost Council of Orzhova
4 Dimir House Guard
Artifact 9
2 Phyrexian Processor
2 Whispersilk Cloak (1 @ +1, 2 @ -2)
2 Claws of Gix
3 Lightning Greaves
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Defense of the Heart
Instants 4
4 Dark Ritual
Sorcery 10
1 Channel
1 Balance
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Night's Whisper
4 Reliquary Tower
4 Scrubland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Ancient Tomb
11 Elephant Graveyard
4 Exquisite archangel
4 Academy Rector
4 Priest of Gix
2 Ghost Council of Orzhova
4 Dimir House Guard
Artifact 7
2 Phyrexian Processor
2 Claws of Gix
3 Lightning Greaves
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Defense of the Heart
Instants 4
4 Dark Ritual
Sorcery 10
1 Channel
1 Balance
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Night's Whisper
4 Reliquary Tower
4 Scrubland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Ancient Tomb
11 Elephant Graveyard
Is Children of Korlis better?
I like Children of Korlis- drop all our life, find someway to get pinged for one, get full life from Angel, sac the Children for double life.
Death Grasp is good. it would be fun with Channel. GGWB: Deal 19 damage to target opponent, gain 19 life. Sac Children, gain 19 more life. Add 2 Death Grasp, as we need win cons, and drawing into it and Channel may as well spell victory.
4 Exquisite archangel
4 Academy Rector
4 Priest of Gix
2 Ghost Council of Orzhova
4 Dimir House Guard
Artifact 7
2 Phyrexian Processor
2 Claws of Gix
3 Lightning Greaves
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Defense of the Heart
Instants 4
4 Dark Ritual
Sorcery 12
1 Channel
1 Balance
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Night's Whisper
2 Death Grasp
4 Reliquary Tower
4 Scrubland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Ancient Tomb
11 Elephant Graveyard
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
4 Exquisite archangel
4 Academy Rector
4 Priest of Gix
2 Ghost Council of Orzhova
4 Dimir House Guard
Artifact 7
2 Phyrexian Processor
2 Claws of Gix
3 Lightning Greaves
Enchantments 8
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Defense of the Heart
1 Cadaverous Bloom
4 Dark Ritual
Sorcery 13
1 Channel
1 Balance
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Night's Whisper
2 Death Grasp
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Lands 24
4 Reliquary Tower
4 Scrubland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Savannah
3 Bayou
5 Elephant Graveyard
4 Exquisite archangel
4 Academy Rector
4 Priest of Gix
2 Ghost Council of Orzhova
4 Dimir House Guard
3 Children of Korlis
Artifact 7
2 Phyrexian Processor
2 Claws of Gix
3 Lightning Greaves
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Defense of the Heart
1 Cadaverous Bloom
Instants 4
4 Dark Ritual
Sorcery 13
1 Channel
1 Balance
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Night's Whisper
2 Death Grasp
1 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Reliquary Tower
4 Scrubland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Savannah
3 Bayou
5 Elephant Graveyard
Adding 3 children of Korlis as it is better than the wardens in our strategy
I was hoping to add 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn to cheat out with Channel. The deck is full now, but we can do the same thing with Channel into Death Grasp. Since Channel lasts for the whole turn, you can stockpile colorless mana, cycle through multiple Archangels and Children of Korlis to gain life, then cast a huge Death's Grasp. That's a hilarious way to win the game!
77 cards. Does that mean we're on to the cutting phase before adding Vampiric Tutor?
BTW Demonic Tutor should be in the deck already. I added it above. GumGodMTG might have quoted the wrong post, missing me adding Demonic Tutor (and also my vote against Whitesun's Passage).
Sorry. I didn't explain my vote well. Was Whitesun's Passage to protect us from losing the game if Angel is killed? There are better lifegain options. The deck already had Claws of Gix (which also sacs Rector or breaks Necro locks) and now has Children of Korlis too.
Suicide is not a risk. Opponent can't kill Angel in response to its ability. It's a replacement effect, not a triggered ability, and our life loss all happens as a cost. Say we're at 1 life and pay 1 life to draw with Necro or Bargain. We immediately drop down to 0 life as part of the cost, lose the game when state-based effects are checked, and then Angel's replacement effect gains us 20 life. None of this goes on the stack. The opponent cannot respond by killing the Angel and causing us to lose. It happens immediately.
Opponent can only kill Angel before we hit 0 life. If opponent tries to kill Angel and we have Necro or Bargain in play or Channel active, in response we can pay all our life, lose the game, set off the replacement effect, and go back up to 20. All that happens in response to whatever opponent tries to do to kill Angel (unless it's Split Second). So it's actually very hard for removal to interfere with Angel and cause us to suicide.
Children of Korlis is the most broken and mana efficient lifegain card we could run and gives some redundancy to Angels. Good find. Since it counts total life lost this turn, not net life lost, if we went down to 0 and back up to 20 more than once, Korlis can gain us 40+ life for 1 mana. Then the next one can gain 80. With all the Archangels and Yawgmoth's Will, Death Grasp for 1000 should be possible.
That's exactly what it was for. If anyone knows our plan all they have to do is target angel to shut us down
Burn - let us kill ourselves down kill the angel and direct damage to face for the win
Go wide strategies (probably some variation of G/W)- same deal let us kill ourselves exile the angel and Crip walk on our face like they own the place
Control- Let us kill ourselves, counter important pieces. And even if we do stick angel they will use removal and come at us with their finisher on a short board
Aggro- we're probably done anyway to be honest
These are just the ideals I have and WP would have given us a chance against most if not all of them. Now if u think im wrong that's cool I am ok with criticism. I just think we need and oh ***** button if we lose an angel and need a turn to get one back up
Now obviously this thought process was pre children which I guess? Can do sorta the same thing. I just don't like it
Did you read the rest of my comment? If we have both the Angel AND "kill ourselves" in play, they can't shut us down. In response to killing the Angel we can pay all our life and go back up to 20. They can't respond. If both Angel and Necro/Bargain/Channel are active, they can't stop us from resetting to 20. I think you're worrying about a non-issue or may be unaware of the rules interactions.
They might use removal to force us to blow the Angel and then attack us for 20 with the shields down. But if they can do that, "gain 5 life" won't help much. We're losing that game either way. Even without killing Angel, they'd eventually kill us with combat damage.
If we never get Necro/Bargain/Channel, sure they can kill Angel and kill us. But then we also aren't dying from suicide... just losing to 20 damage like regular Magic.
If we have Necro/Bargain/Channel/Processor but no Angel, then we risk dropping too low and dying to little damage. As long as we don't pay too much life before we have a Children or Angel, we're fine. Just play smart and wait until it's safe before paying life. It's only dangerous if we gamble paying 10+ life into Bargain to try to draw an Angel and fail. With 4 Angels + 3 Children + draw spells and tutors, it's pretty likely we'll dig into a way to reset life.
Yes, maybe we won't have Bargain. Or it could get killed or countered. But if we don't have those 3 of 60 cards, we're also not killing ourselves. I thought you were worried about the "let us kill ourselves" part. If we're paying dangerous amounts of life, those same cards also protect us. If we don't have them, we're not paying dangerous amounts of life and just losing to 20 damage like normal Magic.
What's the issue? We're not trying to play Pillowfort and be invincible to combat damage over many turns, are we? Using Angel as a bad Platinum Angel seems like a bad idea. It only lasts once. I like using Angel as short-term protection or to draw the deck and Death Grasp for 100 better, but I'm just 1 vote.
EDIT: Where are we at with the deck? Cutting phase?
I'm adding back the Demonic Tutor that was dropped by accident.
I'm voting against Priest of Gix. Good value in general, but it doesn't help advance any of the game plans as far as I can see. I'm also voting against 1 Dimir House Guard. It's less efficient than other draw/search options in the list, and there are too few 4cc targets to need a full 4 copies. I'm also voting against 1 Ghost Council. Now that we can transmute into it, 1 should be enough.
4 Exquisite archangel
4 Academy Rector
4 Priest of Gix (1 @ -4)
2 Ghost Council of Orzhova (1 @ -1)
4 Dimir House Guard (1 @ -1)
3 Children of Korlis
Artifact 7
2 Phyrexian Processor
2 Claws of Gix
3 Lightning Greaves
Enchantments 8
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Defense of the Heart
1 Cadaverous Bloom
4 Dark Ritual
Sorcery 14
1 Channel
1 Balance
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Night's Whisper
2 Death Grasp
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Lands 24
4 Reliquary Tower
4 Scrubland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Savannah
3 Bayou
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Elephant Graveyard