The thread is starting to slow down here so I'm going to add a single copy of Recoup. Allowing us to recast a used Wildfire or two is nothing to scoff at. I'd like to add more but I'm not sure what the rules are regarding adding cards past the 75 amount, if it's allowed I think that 2 is probably the right number, if not I guess we're stuck with 1.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
Voting to cut-
2 Wurmcoil Engine- it's a great card, but this will survive a Wildfire so it's dual purpose token generation is moot.
1 Cultivator's Caravan- it's a nice to have something that can animate into a 5/5, but when we have something like Shivan Wumpus or a post-Wildfire Tuk0Tuk, why tap creatures to animate this? may have been a better slot for Heart of Ramos.
2 Guardian Idol- odds that we'll have mana outside Grim Monolith to animate him after a Wilfdire? slim. in the worst case, he'd be something to crew the caravan.
2 Daretti- even with his ability to cycle himself, he is still rather limited himself. doing his Welder Cycling trick is cute but can only happen if we have stuff to cycle. Heart of Ramos would have been good here in this case.
Sadly, i don't see my Varchild surviving the cutting phase. we'll see.
Adding 4 Sandstone Nettle for some quick mana that's also quite expendable. and with something like Petrified Field, we can use double time.
SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
I would take Mizzix's Mastery over Recoup in this deck.
Not sure what to Recoup, as our only sorceries are all identical. Six copies of Wildfire should be sufficient, not?
I'll vote to remove the Recoup. I don't think the possibility of playing a 8-mana wildfire and a 10-mana wildfire justify the card.
I'll put the final cut on Skirk Fire Marshal. We have too few goblins for this to do anything. Easy cut.
I'll also vote against Recoup. 8-mana Wildfire should be unnecessary. There are already 6 in the deck, and getting to 8 mana AFTER losing 4 lands is no joke.
I'm voting against Ruby Medallion. This card is worse than Guardian Idol (or Mind Stone or any generic mana rock) except in the rare case that you can cast 2 red spells in one turn. But, given how many artifacts there are and how the red spells have high casting cost, I doubt you'll be casting 2 red spells in a turn much. Guardian Idol mana can be used on artifacts and activated abilities. Medallion cannot.
I don't really get why Pyrite Spellbomb is here. Maybe it made sense before. But spending a card to kill weenies is redundant when Wildfire already kills them all. Voting against 4.
I don't like Recoup either. I think six mana is already a lot, making Wildfire cost more just seems silly. If we wanted more of this effect we could have added more burning of Xinye.
I like that pyrite spellbomb is cheap and we can sac/recur it to daretti, but I also feel like we have 19 other artifacts, so I don't feel this is necessary. I'm going to vote to cut all spellbombs. They just don't do enough to justify keeping them.
I feel the same way about Ruby Medalion. It doesn't untap monolith or pay for the activation cost on key or guardian idol. I think it's worse than a fire diamond in this deck. Voting to cut them all.
I don't like Varchild's war-riders. It does things that are very fun/interesting, but it isn't going to win us games. I vote to cut this card.
I'll put the final cut in Varchild's War Riders to help move this along. I really love that card and was reluctant to cut it at first, but it needs to be in the right kind of deck to shine. 2 Repercussion and 1 War Riders isn't enough on theme for War Riders to shine.
I'll also vote against Sword of War and Peace. This is the pure aggro sword, the one that provides no card advantage. It's good if we need to protect weenies from Wildfire or speed up the clock of small attackers, but it looks like the deck went in a different direction. We don't need to protect anything from Wildfire and our creatures should be big enough to kill without equipment.
I vote to keep both Wurmcoil Engine. It's an amazing creature. We can cheat it out quickly with Daretti or Grim Monolith mana and untap it with Key, so it has high synergy with the deck. With Daretti's -2, you can even trade a Wurm back for the original Wurmcoil Engine, which is stupidly strong. You guys would prefer if it was a 4/4? Sure, there would be synergy with Wildfire, but isn't keeping the original creature even better than getting the 2 tokens? You keep a very fast clock through Wildfire. And then if opponent finds a way to kill it, you still have 2 tokens after that. So much resilience.
I'll put the final cuts on Ruby Medallion. It just doesn't do enough to warrant a slot. I'll also vote to cut Pyrite Spellbomb. Daretti's ability to trade it in for something else is great but if that's all it's got going for it then it's just not worth it. I'm also going to add 4 Great Furnace to the manabase. Most of the time this is just a mountain but with Daretti we can trade it in for a better artifact or if we really needed the land we can trade one of our other artifacts for a land.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
I'm also going to vote to remove 1 Daretti. Though you can use his ability to discard redundant copies, I can't help but feel that 4 is still too many - going down to 3 makes a little more room for other cards which are more important to our game plan. Votes combine, removing 1 copy and leaving a vote of 1 @ -1.
I think Repercussion is the type of card you want to play in the sideboard. It's good against decks that want to go wide, but sometimes it will just be dead, or even hurt you. Voting to cut both copies. I don't think we need it to win.
I also don't like the Zubera because it dies and leaves nothing on the board. The other creatures in the deck either leave a token or survive wildfire giving board superiority post wildfire. (I believe it's this post wildfire board superiority that will actually win the game, not a random lightning bolt).
I was on the fence about the Zubera and Gumgod convinced me it should be cut. I also agree with him on Repercussion. If those cards are cut, the deck will be down to 62 cards. So I'll vote to cut 1 Pyrite Spellbomb and 1 Cultivator's Caravan.
I'm voting to remove 1 Pyrite Spellbomb, as we have already a lot of early drops.
I'm voting to remove 4 Burning-Eye Zubera's, as the body is quite expensive.
I'm voting to remove the 2 Repercussions, as I think it is kind of a win more card. Also, I don't like running 0-4 enchantments. My deckbuilding philosophy says 0 or 4+.
By sheer coincidence, it leaves us a 60-card deck. (?)
I'm actually thinking of building this myself.
I have 4 wildfire / goblin welder since ages, but never constructed something with it.
I also have the Covetous Dragons, but they won't see play.
Any comments? I would like it to remain legacy legal and ideally without expensive cards that I don't own already.
I'm actually thinking of building this myself.
I have 4 wildfire / goblin welder since ages, but never constructed something with it.
I also have the Covetous Dragons, but they won't see play.
Any comments? I would like it to remain legacy legal and ideally without expensive cards that I don't own already.
This is off-topic now... But depending on budget and card availability, I'd try something like this:
Between Forgemaster and Looting+Welder, you can cheat out fatties. No Battlesphere here because the Myr die to Wildfire. If you can curve Kuldotha Forgemaster into Wildfire, tapping Forgemaster to grab Blightsteel, you probably win the game on the spot. The chance they can answer Blightsteel after losing all lands and weenies is really low.
I cut out Grim Monolith and stuck to budget mana rocks.
Countryside Crusher+Wildfire doesn't work because Crusher has a triggered ability. Crusher will die from Wildfire damage before the triggers resolve. Terravore would work though, because the * is computed immediately.
We are now in the cutting phase.
3 Tuktuk the Explorer
2 Skirk Fire Marshal (1 @ -2)
3 Shivan Wumpus
1 Varchild's War-Riders
2 Wurmcoil Engine (1 @ -2)
4 Burning-Eye Zubera
Sorceries: 7
4 Wildfire
2 Burning of Xinye
1 Recoup (1 @ +1)
2 Repercussion
Artifacts: 21
4 Pyrite Spellbomb
3 Cultivator's Caravan
4 Guardian Idol
4 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
2 Ruby Medallion
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant (1 @-1)
Lands: 24
3 Drownyard Temple
2 Ghost Town
19 Mountain
3 Tuktuk the Explorer
2 Skirk Fire Marshal (2 @ -2)
3 Shivan Wumpus
1 Varchild's War-Riders
2 Wurmcoil Engine (1 @ -2)
4 Burning-Eye Zubera
Sorceries: 7
4 Wildfire
2 Burning of Xinye
1 Recoup (1 @ +1)
2 Repercussion
Artifacts: 21
4 Pyrite Spellbomb
3 Cultivator's Caravan
4 Guardian Idol
4 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
2 Ruby Medallion
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant (1 @-1)
Lands: 24
3 Drownyard Temple
2 Ghost Town
19 Mountain
I'm voting to cut skirk. His goblin tap for damage is wasted with so few goblins in deck. If this were a gobby build it would be fine but it isnt
2 Wurmcoil Engine- it's a great card, but this will survive a Wildfire so it's dual purpose token generation is moot.
1 Cultivator's Caravan- it's a nice to have something that can animate into a 5/5, but when we have something like Shivan Wumpus or a post-Wildfire Tuk0Tuk, why tap creatures to animate this? may have been a better slot for Heart of Ramos.
2 Guardian Idol- odds that we'll have mana outside Grim Monolith to animate him after a Wilfdire? slim. in the worst case, he'd be something to crew the caravan.
2 Daretti- even with his ability to cycle himself, he is still rather limited himself. doing his Welder Cycling trick is cute but can only happen if we have stuff to cycle. Heart of Ramos would have been good here in this case.
Sadly, i don't see my Varchild surviving the cutting phase. we'll see.
Adding 4 Sandstone Nettle for some quick mana that's also quite expendable. and with something like Petrified Field, we can use double time.
3 Tuktuk the Explorer
2 Skirk Fire Marshal (2 @ -2)
3 Shivan Wumpus
1 Varchild's War-Riders
2 Wurmcoil Engine (2 @ -2)
4 Burning-Eye Zubera
Sorceries: 7
4 Wildfire
2 Burning of Xinye
1 Recoup (1 @ +1)
2 Repercussion
Artifacts: 21
4 Pyrite Spellbomb
3 Cultivator's Caravan (1 @ -1)
4 Guardian Idol (1 @ -2)
4 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
2 Ruby Medallion
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant (1 @-1, 1 @ -2)
Lands: 24
4 Sandstone Needle
3 Drownyard Temple
2 Ghost Town
15 Mountain
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
Not sure what to Recoup, as our only sorceries are all identical. Six copies of Wildfire should be sufficient, not?
I'll vote to remove the Recoup. I don't think the possibility of playing a 8-mana wildfire and a 10-mana wildfire justify the card.
3 Tuktuk the Explorer
2 Skirk Fire Marshal (2 @ -2)
3 Shivan Wumpus
1 Varchild's War-Riders
2 Wurmcoil Engine (2 @ -2)
4 Burning-Eye Zubera
Sorceries: 7
4 Wildfire
2 Burning of Xinye
1 Recoup
2 Repercussion
Artifacts: 21
4 Pyrite Spellbomb
3 Cultivator's Caravan (1 @ -1)
4 Guardian Idol (1 @ -2)
4 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
2 Ruby Medallion
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant (1 @-1, 1 @ -2)
Lands: 24
4 Sandstone Needle
3 Drownyard Temple
2 Ghost Town
15 Mountain
These are the decks that I have constructed, and are ready to play:
01. Ankh Sligh to be exact.
I'll also vote against Recoup. 8-mana Wildfire should be unnecessary. There are already 6 in the deck, and getting to 8 mana AFTER losing 4 lands is no joke.
I'm voting against Ruby Medallion. This card is worse than Guardian Idol (or Mind Stone or any generic mana rock) except in the rare case that you can cast 2 red spells in one turn. But, given how many artifacts there are and how the red spells have high casting cost, I doubt you'll be casting 2 red spells in a turn much. Guardian Idol mana can be used on artifacts and activated abilities. Medallion cannot.
I agree a rock that can give double red (like Heart of Ramos or Coalition Relic) would have been ideal, but it's too late for that now. Talisman of Indulgence is probably better than Guardian Idol, but also too late for that.
I don't really get why Pyrite Spellbomb is here. Maybe it made sense before. But spending a card to kill weenies is redundant when Wildfire already kills them all. Voting against 4.
3 Tuktuk the Explorer
3 Shivan Wumpus
1 Varchild's War-Riders
2 Wurmcoil Engine (2 @ -2)
4 Burning-Eye Zubera
Sorceries: 7
4 Wildfire
2 Burning of Xinye
1 Recoup (1 @ - 1)
2 Repercussion
Artifacts: 21
4 Pyrite Spellbomb (1 @ -4)
3 Cultivator's Caravan (1 @ -1)
4 Guardian Idol (1 @ -2)
4 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
2 Ruby Medallion (1 @ -2)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant (1 @-1, 1 @ -2)
Lands: 24
4 Sandstone Needle
3 Drownyard Temple
2 Ghost Town
15 Mountain
I like that pyrite spellbomb is cheap and we can sac/recur it to daretti, but I also feel like we have 19 other artifacts, so I don't feel this is necessary. I'm going to vote to cut all spellbombs. They just don't do enough to justify keeping them.
I feel the same way about Ruby Medalion. It doesn't untap monolith or pay for the activation cost on key or guardian idol. I think it's worse than a fire diamond in this deck. Voting to cut them all.
I don't like Varchild's war-riders. It does things that are very fun/interesting, but it isn't going to win us games. I vote to cut this card.
3 Tuktuk the Explorer
3 Shivan Wumpus
1 Varchild's War-Riders (1 @ -1)
2 Wurmcoil Engine (2 @ -2)
4 Burning-Eye Zubera
Sorceries: 7
4 Wildfire
2 Burning of Xinye
1 Recoup (2 @ - 1)
2 Repercussion
Artifacts: 21
4 Pyrite Spellbomb (2 @ -4)
3 Cultivator's Caravan (1 @ -1)
4 Guardian Idol (1 @ -2)
4 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
2 Ruby Medallion (2 @ -2)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant (1 @-1, 1 @ -2)
Lands: 24
4 Sandstone Needle
3 Drownyard Temple
2 Ghost Town
15 Mountain
I'll also vote against Sword of War and Peace. This is the pure aggro sword, the one that provides no card advantage. It's good if we need to protect weenies from Wildfire or speed up the clock of small attackers, but it looks like the deck went in a different direction. We don't need to protect anything from Wildfire and our creatures should be big enough to kill without equipment.
I vote to keep both Wurmcoil Engine. It's an amazing creature. We can cheat it out quickly with Daretti or Grim Monolith mana and untap it with Key, so it has high synergy with the deck. With Daretti's -2, you can even trade a Wurm back for the original Wurmcoil Engine, which is stupidly strong. You guys would prefer if it was a 4/4? Sure, there would be synergy with Wildfire, but isn't keeping the original creature even better than getting the 2 tokens? You keep a very fast clock through Wildfire. And then if opponent finds a way to kill it, you still have 2 tokens after that. So much resilience.
3 Tuktuk the Explorer
3 Shivan Wumpus
2 Wurmcoil Engine (2 @ -2, 1 @ +2)
4 Burning-Eye Zubera
Sorceries (6)
4 Wildfire
2 Burning of Xinye
2 Repercussion
Artifacts (23)
4 Pyrite Spellbomb (1 @ -4)
3 Cultivator's Caravan (1 @ -1)
4 Guardian Idol (1 @ -2)
4 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
2 Ruby Medallion (2 @ -2)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace (1 @ - 1)
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant (1 @-1, 1 @ -2)
Lands (24)
4 Sandstone Needle
3 Drownyard Temple
2 Ghost Town
15 Mountain
3 Tuktuk the Explorer
3 Shivan Wumpus
2 Wurmcoil Engine (1 @ -2)
4 Burning-Eye Zubera
Sorceries (6)
4 Wildfire
2 Burning of Xinye
2 Repercussion
Artifacts (21)
4 Pyrite Spellbomb (2 @ -4)
3 Cultivator's Caravan (1 @ -1)
4 Guardian Idol (1 @ -2)
4 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace (1 @ - 1)
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant (1 @-1, 1 @ -2)
Lands (24)
4 Sandstone Needle
3 Drownyard Temple
2 Ghost Town
4 Great Furnace
11 Mountain
3 Tuktuk the Explorer
3 Shivan Wumpus
2 Wurmcoil Engine (1 @ -2)
4 Burning-Eye Zubera
Sorceries (6)
4 Wildfire
2 Burning of Xinye
2 Repercussion
Artifacts (21)
4 Pyrite Spellbomb (2 @ -4)
3 Cultivator's Caravan (1 @ -1)
4 Guardian Idol (1 @ -2, 1 @ -1)
4 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace (1 @ - 1)
3 Daretti, Scrap Savant (1 @-1)
Lands (24)
4 Sandstone Needle
3 Drownyard Temple
2 Ghost Town
4 Great Furnace
11 Mountain
you never removed a daretti so I fixed it.
I also don't like the Zubera because it dies and leaves nothing on the board. The other creatures in the deck either leave a token or survive wildfire giving board superiority post wildfire. (I believe it's this post wildfire board superiority that will actually win the game, not a random lightning bolt).
3 Tuktuk the Explorer
3 Shivan Wumpus
2 Wurmcoil Engine (1 @ -2)
4 Burning-Eye Zubera (1 @ -4)
Sorceries (6)
4 Wildfire
2 Burning of Xinye
2 Repercussion (1 @ -2)
Artifacts (21)
4 Pyrite Spellbomb (2 @ -4)
3 Cultivator's Caravan (1 @ -1)
4 Guardian Idol (1 @ -2, 1 @ -1)
4 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace (1 @ - 1)
3 Daretti, Scrap Savant (1 @-1)
Lands (24)
4 Sandstone Needle
3 Drownyard Temple
2 Ghost Town
4 Great Furnace
11 Mountain
3 Tuktuk the Explorer
3 Shivan Wumpus
2 Wurmcoil Engine (1 @ -2)
4 Burning-Eye Zubera (2 @ -4)
Sorceries (6)
4 Wildfire
2 Burning of Xinye
2 Repercussion (2 @ -2)
Artifacts (20)
3 Pyrite Spellbomb (2 @ -3)
3 Cultivator's Caravan (2 @ -1)
4 Guardian Idol (1 @ -2, 1 @ -1)
4 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace (1 @ - 1)
3 Daretti, Scrap Savant (1 @-1)
Lands (24)
4 Sandstone Needle
3 Drownyard Temple
2 Ghost Town
4 Great Furnace
11 Mountain
I'm voting to remove 4 Burning-Eye Zubera's, as the body is quite expensive.
I'm voting to remove the 2 Repercussions, as I think it is kind of a win more card. Also, I don't like running 0-4 enchantments. My deckbuilding philosophy says 0 or 4+.
3 Tuktuk the Explorer
3 Shivan Wumpus
2 Wurmcoil Engine (1 @ -2)
Sorceries (6)
4 Wildfire
2 Burning of Xinye
Artifacts (20)
2 Pyrite Spellbomb (2 @ -2)
3 Cultivator's Caravan (2 @ -1)
4 Guardian Idol (1 @ -2, 1 @ -1)
4 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace (1 @ - 1)
3 Daretti, Scrap Savant (1 @-1)
Lands (24)
4 Sandstone Needle
3 Drownyard Temple
2 Ghost Town
4 Great Furnace
11 Mountain
By sheer coincidence, it leaves us a 60-card deck. (?)
I'm actually thinking of building this myself.
I have 4 wildfire / goblin welder since ages, but never constructed something with it.
I also have the Covetous Dragons, but they won't see play.
Any comments? I would like it to remain legacy legal and ideally without expensive cards that I don't own already.
4 Goblin Welder
3 Voltaic Key
4 Worn Powerstone
4 Basalt Monolith
2 Mizzix's Mastery
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant
4 Fiery Confluence
3 Myr Battlesphere
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Duplicant
1 Kuldotha Phoenix
4 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Crystal Vein
1 Shivan Gorge
10 Mountain
Countryside Crusher + Wildfire seems nasty too.
These are the decks that I have constructed, and are ready to play:
01. Ankh Sligh to be exact.
This is off-topic now... But depending on budget and card availability, I'd try something like this:
4 Goblin Welder
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
1 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Faithless Looting
4 Wildfire
//Artifacts: 15
4 Talisman of Indulgence
4 Rakdos Signet
4 Worn Powerstone
2 Lightning Greaves
1 Spine of Ish Sah
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
4 Crystal Vein
4 Great Furnace
2 Darksteel Citadel
6 Mountain
Between Forgemaster and Looting+Welder, you can cheat out fatties. No Battlesphere here because the Myr die to Wildfire. If you can curve Kuldotha Forgemaster into Wildfire, tapping Forgemaster to grab Blightsteel, you probably win the game on the spot. The chance they can answer Blightsteel after losing all lands and weenies is really low.
I cut out Grim Monolith and stuck to budget mana rocks.
Countryside Crusher+Wildfire doesn't work because Crusher has a triggered ability. Crusher will die from Wildfire damage before the triggers resolve. Terravore would work though, because the * is computed immediately.
1. kamakazi339
2. BlackVise
3. GumgodMTG
4. Quilt
5. Selvaxri
6. FTW1987
7. RabidVacin
8. Vault756
Voted to remove cards in cutting phase:
9. kamakazi339
10. Selvaxri
11. Quilt
12. FTW1987
13. GumgodMTG
14. BlackVise
15. Vault756
16. RabidVacin
Sending PM now.
Anybody remember when rchrhds was in charge of the die roll? During that time he won the roll 3 out of 4 times.