Voting to add an Inventors' Fair. It tutors up Crucible of Worlds, then you re-play it from the graveyard for even more tutoring value.
I'm not sold on the Inventors' Crucible interaction. We're not aiming to have our lands in our graveyard, and LotL solves that problem. Crucibles w/ Fastbond would be great, if we planned on playing that style of deck.
We still seriously need some decent fetch engines, and maybe i did misjudge how much land slots we needed. That said, I'm adding 4 Urborg Elf to help with mana fixing, and we really need to consolidate what landslots we have open. Our land slots should run Forests and Dimir Aqueduct or Dimir Guildgate/Opulent Palace, and then a few more Man-lands.
to that effect, voting out 2 Hissing Quagmire and voting up Creeping Tar Pit to 4. Unblockable is far more valuable to us, than deathtouch. with Earth Surge and Advocate our lands are getting +4/+4- most everything that runs into a Growth'd critter won't survive- with or without Deathtouch. Being able to sneak in 4+ damage will help us win the game.
SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
WHAT'S WITH ALL THE 3-OF'S?!? I HATE RUNNING 3-OF'S! /rant
2 of and 3 cards of open up more options for variety and redundancy with other cards that have similar effects (which is helpful with our gifts for lands card).
I'm not sold on the Inventors' Crucible interaction. We're not aiming to have our lands in our graveyard, and LotL solves that problem. Crucibles w/ Fastbond would be great, if we planned on playing that style of deck.
Now with Zuran Orb we have yet another artifact to tutor with the Invetors' fair.
I think we may want Crop Rotation in here, but I'm not sure... what I do know though is that Abundance (which creates a replacement effect) is really good with Sylvan Library.
I'm going to add Sylvan Library. With Zuran Orb to combat the 4 damage, we can draw lots of cards, with Abundance to combo we can draw lots of cards, with shuffle effects like Reals unchated, we can see more cards. I think two should be enough as redundant copies are mostly dead.
I'll second the vote to increase creeping tar pit. With an Earth Surge, this is a 5 power unblockable creature. That's going to end games pretty quickly.
We could be running Nature's Lore which allows fetching dual lands or even dryad arbors. I even think Explore or Summer Bloom could be good in here too, but maybe exploration makes that unnecessary.
Why are we running Urborg Elf over something that puts lands into play? This deck really cares about how much lands we have so we would much rather have something that puts lands into play. Voting to cut it.
There are currently no blue or black cards in this deck...
Adding 4 Ponder to help us find the cards we need.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
I keep seeing people talking about graveyard replacement ( or maybe I'm just thinking it). Who would be opposed to a 1of Elixir of Immortality to reset our land pool late game?
I keep seeing people talking about graveyard replacement ( or maybe I'm just thinking it). Who would be opposed to a 1of Elixir of Immortality to reset our land pool late game?
This is the opposite of what I'm thinking about. We want to use our graveyard as a resource using Life from the loam and crucible, and this card resets it. When I used the term replacement effect, I meant a replacement to drawing a card (dredge/abundance) which works with sylvan library to cheat extra cards without paying life (you need 3 dredgers to do it with dredge, but only 1 abundance to get three cards with abundance). Abundance already prevents us from decking out also, so I'm not sure what value elixir adds.
Agree to vote out Urborg Elf, we have ramp and lands -- this seems silly. Agreed on the vote out 2 Quagmires and up 1 Tarpit, tarpit's better and Quagmire's meh. Voting out Thran Turbine -- most of our lands need colored mana to creature-ify, and we probably don't want to be playing much on our upkeep anyways. Agreed on voting out 2 Exploration 'cuz now we got Fastbond.
I don't think we're ready to stop adding cards, so I won't add any new cards. That said, I think we need tutors if we want to make the Abundance/Library or Library/All 3 of our LftL plan work. Also, if we've got 3 LftLs combined with many drawers, we'll pretty quickly mill ourselves out, and there's no way to recur Abundance (which is, in any case, one vulnerable enchantment). Finally, just for fun, we now have the Abundance/Horn of Greed/Fastbond option too (though that's not a real argument). With all that in mind, voting to add 2 Abundance.
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
I vote to cut 4 Urborg Elf, because it seems weak and prone to removal.
I vote to cut 4 Ponder, because our mana base does not support early U
I vote to cut 2 Forbidden Alchemy, because it does very little by itself (and it would probably get cut in the cutting phase)
I'm adding 3 Glacial Chasm, because it is a good defensive card that we can support through our draw engine and crucible.
I also think that there is nothing wrong with three copies for expensive spells, tutorable spells, legendary permanents and things you don't want to see more than once in your opening hand.
In the specific context of a GMAD, three copies is less intrusive as it will monopolize the decklist less before the cutting starts. Cutting is usually the hardest part.
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These are the decks that I have constructed, and are ready to play:
01. Ankh Sligh to be exact.
Voting out Ponder and Alchemy- this deck can't really support that many blue spells currently, and Alchemy isn't really worthwhile when Realms Uncharted doing the same thing.
Urborg Elf was there as a non-land mana source to animate our lands; likewise Thran Turbine provided mana to do likewise. Why do i bring up this point?
Our current mana base sucks- and do we really want to be using our lands to animate the lands? Just saying, alternate mana sources.
And I will dejectedly point out that the premise of the deck has shifted. Rather than being more oriented around Earth Surge and Land-animation, it's been eclipsed by Fastbond/Crucible. *shrug* Too many cooks and all.
WE NEED LAND FETCH. Adding 4 Sylvan Scrying. These will fetch any land we desire. Do we need the Fair? Bam. Do we want a Strip Mine? Bam. We don't have much room in our mana base for Duals and Nature's Lore.
SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
Why are we playing Sultai colors if we're just going to vote out all the actual blue and black cards? If this is what we're doing than we should stop pretending to be anything besides a monogreen and allow ourselves to run colorless manlands. Alternatively we could switch to Temur colors which I personally believe has better manlands and we would get to run something like Desolate Lighthouse to loot out redundant copies of stuff.
I'm voting to increase Abundance. I think it synergizes really well with Sylvan Library basically allowing us to draw 3 cards a turn.
I'm voting to cut Life from the Loam because I think Crucible is just better given the direction the deck has taken. Crucible doesn't cost us mana every turn. Also voting to decrease tranquil thicket since it's kind of bad without loam.
I am adding 3 Lumbering Falls to finish our triangle of manlands. This deck is supposed to be all about manlands so the more the the better. In addition I've already stated I think we should go Temur instead of Sultai and this card fits in both of those color combinations.
I'd also consider looking into Halimar Tidecaller and some cards with Awaken but the deck is a little tight as is.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
I'm just going to vote against thran turbine and ponder. Voting all thran turbines out because they don't really do anything (useful).
I don't think we need 4x ponder. It also happens to be restricted in Vintage, and if we're running Fastbond, we're vintage. Voting against 3x ponder, which leaves one. This makes the list vintage legal again. Maybe the last one will get cut later, but even if it doesn't it still gives a little room to sculpt the deck again.
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
I'm voting to cut Life from the Loam because I think Crucible is just better given the direction the deck has taken. Crucible doesn't cost us mana every turn. Also voting to decrease tranquil thicket since it's kind of bad without loam.
not the direction i was hoping the deck would go, but that's the nature of GMaD. I see no reason to drop Sylvan SCrying in favor of Crop Rotation. Scrying gets them into our hand, Rotation costs us a land- that if we don't have Crucible up, would put us behind given the overwhelming unbalance in our mana base.
I'm voting to keep Sylvan Scrying as it would not be detrimental to our already flimsy mana base and voting to drop Crop Rotation down to 2.
That said, voting Crucible down to one. We have the Fair to fetch it, and several ways to fetch the Fair. Neither are imperatively vital to our strategy, it's just a safety net. in the worse case, we have Nissa to fetch the Crucible if it's rolled over in a LotL Dredge.
Voting down Lumbering Falls and Glacial Chasm-Lumbering Falls is a good man-land, but we had brute, evasion, and lethality. Hexproof is good thing, but it's only when it's a creature. Honestly, I'd have gone Faerie Conclave. Cheaper to animate, and has Evasion. Bigger body with Hexproof will eat up our mana. [And you people decided to remove some alternate mana sources.]
Chasm is a nice defensive measure, but not neccessary. i'm just trying to open up more lands slots for the ability to animate our lands.
Strix would be a bit hard to get on the field, Wall of Bloosoms could be easier, but doesn't have the nifty Flying/Deathtouch combo. Jungle Barrier likewise.
Adding two Ancient Tomb, we need mana to animate our lands. this mana opens up a few more slots to produce the colors we also need to animate our could-be army.
SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
Crop rotation is better than sylvan scrying because it enables tricks. You can crop rotate into a chasm to fog, you can crop rotate into a dryad arbor to block. That said, I also agree that three chasm is too many. Going to vote out 2 Glacial Chasm. It doesn't make mana, and it costs us an extra land when it comes into play. We have so many ways to tutor it up right now that 1 should be plenty. I'm combining the votes (2 @ -1, 1 @ -2) and removing one.
Vote against 1 Chasm. 1 should be plenty, and without Crucible or one of our weird draw engines it's rather awful on its own (since the land sac hurts and we need Zuran Orb of all things to regain life).
Vote against 2 Crop Rotations. It's better as trick to hold up and catch out opponents, than as an actual utility card -- since again, while we have no trouble replacing our lands, we need to have a Horn of Greed or similar draw engine to actually keep drawing enough of them, plus Exploration etc. to play them.
Vote against Ancient Tomb. We have severe color requirements, including in manaland activations; as such, the colorless isn't enormously helpful. Plus, we can't regain the life very easily.
Really wish we had white -- feels like Sultai definitely lacks some of the better manlands. Stirring Wildwood and Celestial Colonade both would have helped immensely with the deck IMO.
Regardless: If I'm not mistaken, we can still add lands in the cutting phase, can we not? Since the deck started with 30 lands, we've still got room in our landbase (though we might later vote to reduce the number of lands). As such, I'll add 3 Faerie Conclaves, sine they give us more manlands (ostensibly the focus) at an affordable price. Also, our numbers were off; recounted.
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
So we're in the cutting phase. No more additions (other than lands)? Too bad. I had suggested blue to have access to draw like Treasure Hunt, Ponder, Intuition, Gifts Ungiven. Many of these cards are amazing with Loam and Land-based decks.
I agree Bant would have been cool. White adds some strong manlands and Terra Eternal. Black has added no spells (we're using Vintage B/R... why no singleton Vampiric Tutor and Demonic Tutor to smooth out the draws?), although Creeping Tar Pit looks very strong in this deck!
Now for cuts...
1) -1 Glacial Chasm. This card is bananas when you need it and godawful every other time (it doesn't produce mana and has an insane upkeep). As long as we have land tutors to find it when we need it and recursion to get it back, we only need 1 copy.
2) -2 Ancient Tomb. Colorless mana seems really bad. This is a 3-color deck. The manabase is flimsy enough without colorless sources and self-damage. Exploration and Amulet of Vigor are better sources of acceleration.
3) -4 Sylvan Scrying. We do want land tutors, but having both this and Crop Rotation is redundant. We should just pick one route. Either 3-4 Crop Rotation or 3-4 Sylvan Scrying. Not both. Especially with Realms Uncharted already pulling a lot of weight. I think Crop Rotation is better. It's cheaper to cast. And it's an instant, so you can use it to respond to the board state. Crop Rotation can flash in Glacial Chasm to stop an attack, flash in a surprise manland to animate and block (if Amulet of Vigor is out), or find utility lands for cheap. Since thd deck has a land recursion and land draw engine, it can afford to lose a land.
4) -1 Rude Awakening. I'm surprised no one else has voted against this. This is a finisher. We don't need more than 2 copies. The card is awful until we hit 8 lands. At 6 mana, it animates one land as a 2/2. That's it. For 7 mana, it can animate 2 lands. That's pretty weak when we already have so many manlands. It only gets good when you can entwine and attack with 8+ land bears.
5) -1 Abundance. It's really good sometimes, especially with Sylvan Library and Horn of Greed. But other times it does less. And it's slow as a 4 mana enchantment that takes a few turns to start generating much value. It's also is redundant in multiples. We can't double up on replacement effects.
I suggest 1 Academy Ruins as a replacement land for one of the cuts. It protects Crucible and the other artifacts.
I'm gonna vote against 2 crop rotation. I think Sylvan scrying is a better option even if it is a sorcery speed option. With only 2 crucible of worlds in deck we can't afford to take the chance on sacrificing lands. If we don't get crucible we are hurting ourselves greatly.
I'm honestly kinda sad about the way this deck turned out. We ended up in Sultai still even though Baleful Strix is our only blue or black spell. So many awesome avenue this deck could have taken... Oh well.
Voting to cut 2 ancient tomb. Colorless and a loss of life is really bad IMO. Voting to cut 1 abundance. Copies beyond the first are useless and we have no way of trading the extra copies for anything useful. Voting to cut all the Sylvan scryings and I'm combining the votes on it; crop rotation has mid combat applications in case things go south, Sylvan scrying does not.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
There are many ways this deck could have gone. If i hadn't of disallowed colorless mana lands, the deck would be flooded with Mutavault, Mishra's Factorys, Blinkmoth Nexus and the like, and save for Treetop Village- arguably one of the best colored man lands- nothing else would have been added.
Also, when Crucible of Worlds added, the deck shifted focus.
going bant would have been interesting, though i prefer Sacred Ground over Terra Eternal.
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SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
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Yes, though I'd rather Sylvan Advocate gets the vote first.
I'm not sold on the Inventors' Crucible interaction. We're not aiming to have our lands in our graveyard, and LotL solves that problem. Crucibles w/ Fastbond would be great, if we planned on playing that style of deck.
We still seriously need some decent fetch engines, and maybe i did misjudge how much land slots we needed. That said, I'm adding 4 Urborg Elf to help with mana fixing, and we really need to consolidate what landslots we have open. Our land slots should run Forests and Dimir Aqueduct or Dimir Guildgate/Opulent Palace, and then a few more Man-lands.
to that effect, voting out 2 Hissing Quagmire and voting up Creeping Tar Pit to 4. Unblockable is far more valuable to us, than deathtouch. with Earth Surge and Advocate our lands are getting +4/+4- most everything that runs into a Growth'd critter won't survive- with or without Deathtouch. Being able to sneak in 4+ damage will help us win the game.
4 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Hissing Quagmire
2 Lumbering Falls
2 Faerie Conclave
And this is my own pet peeve, but still-
4 Earth Surge
4 Exploration (2 @ -2)
1 Fastbond
1 Abundance
Creatures (8):
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Urborg Elves
3 Rude Awakening
3 Life from the Loam
2 Realms Uncharted
Artifacts (9):
2 Thran Turbine
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor
4 Hissing Quagmire (1 @ -2)
4 Treetop Village
3 Creeping Tar Pit (1 @ +1)
4 Tranquil Thicket
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
13 couldabeen Mutavault
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
What's wrong with running 3ofs? There are so many advantages to running 3ofs at times
2 of and 3 cards of open up more options for variety and redundancy with other cards that have similar effects (which is helpful with our gifts for lands card).
Now with Zuran Orb we have yet another artifact to tutor with the Invetors' fair.
I think we may want Crop Rotation in here, but I'm not sure... what I do know though is that Abundance (which creates a replacement effect) is really good with Sylvan Library.
I'm going to add Sylvan Library. With Zuran Orb to combat the 4 damage, we can draw lots of cards, with Abundance to combo we can draw lots of cards, with shuffle effects like Reals unchated, we can see more cards. I think two should be enough as redundant copies are mostly dead.
I'll second the vote to increase creeping tar pit. With an Earth Surge, this is a 5 power unblockable creature. That's going to end games pretty quickly.
4 Earth Surge
4 Exploration (2 @ -2)
1 Fastbond
1 Abundance
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (8):
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Urborg Elf
3 Rude Awakening
3 Life from the Loam
2 Realms Uncharted
Artifacts (10):
2 Thran Turbine
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor
1 Zuran Orb
4 Hissing Quagmire (1 @ -2)
4 Treetop Village
3 Creeping Tar Pit (2 @ +1)
4 Tranquil Thicket
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
13 couldabeen Mutavault
We could be running Nature's Lore which allows fetching dual lands or even dryad arbors. I even think Explore or Summer Bloom could be good in here too, but maybe exploration makes that unnecessary.
There are currently no blue or black cards in this deck...
Adding 4 Ponder to help us find the cards we need.
4 Earth Surge
4 Exploration (2 @ -2)
1 Fastbond
1 Abundance
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (8):
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Urborg Elf (1 @ -4)
3 Rude Awakening
3 Life from the Loam
2 Realms Uncharted
4 Ponder
Artifacts (10):
2 Thran Turbine
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor
1 Zuran Orb
4 Hissing Quagmire (1 @ -2)
4 Treetop Village
3 Creeping Tar Pit (2 @ +1)
4 Tranquil Thicket
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
9 couldabeen Mutavault
This is the opposite of what I'm thinking about. We want to use our graveyard as a resource using Life from the loam and crucible, and this card resets it. When I used the term replacement effect, I meant a replacement to drawing a card (dredge/abundance) which works with sylvan library to cheat extra cards without paying life (you need 3 dredgers to do it with dredge, but only 1 abundance to get three cards with abundance). Abundance already prevents us from decking out also, so I'm not sure what value elixir adds.
I don't think we're ready to stop adding cards, so I won't add any new cards. That said, I think we need tutors if we want to make the Abundance/Library or Library/All 3 of our LftL plan work. Also, if we've got 3 LftLs combined with many drawers, we'll pretty quickly mill ourselves out, and there's no way to recur Abundance (which is, in any case, one vulnerable enchantment). Finally, just for fun, we now have the Abundance/Horn of Greed/Fastbond option too (though that's not a real argument). With all that in mind, voting to add 2 Abundance.
4 Earth Surge
2 Exploration
1 Fastbond
1 Abundance (1 @ +2)
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (8):
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Urborg Elf (2 @ -4)
Instants (2):
2 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Rude Awakening
3 Life from the Loam
2 Realms Uncharted
4 Ponder
Artifacts (10):
2 Thran Turbine (1 @ -2)
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor
1 Zuran Orb
4 Hissing Quagmire (2 @ -2)
4 Treetop Village
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Tranquil Thicket
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
8 couldabeen Mutavault
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
I vote to cut 4 Ponder, because our mana base does not support early U
I vote to cut 2 Forbidden Alchemy, because it does very little by itself (and it would probably get cut in the cutting phase)
4 Earth Surge
2 Exploration
1 Fastbond
1 Abundance (1 @ +2)
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (8):
4 Sylvan Advocate
Instants (2):
2 Forbidden Alchemy (1 @ -2)
Sorceries (12):
3 Rude Awakening
3 Life from the Loam
2 Realms Uncharted
4 Ponder (1 @ -4)
2 Thran Turbine (1 @ -2)
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor
1 Zuran Orb
Lands (30):
4 Hissing Quagmire (2 @ -2)
4 Treetop Village
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Tranquil Thicket
3 Glacial Chasm
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
5 couldabeen Mutavault
I'm adding 3 Glacial Chasm, because it is a good defensive card that we can support through our draw engine and crucible.
I also think that there is nothing wrong with three copies for expensive spells, tutorable spells, legendary permanents and things you don't want to see more than once in your opening hand.
In the specific context of a GMAD, three copies is less intrusive as it will monopolize the decklist less before the cutting starts. Cutting is usually the hardest part.
These are the decks that I have constructed, and are ready to play:
01. Ankh Sligh to be exact.
Urborg Elf was there as a non-land mana source to animate our lands; likewise Thran Turbine provided mana to do likewise. Why do i bring up this point?
Our current mana base sucks- and do we really want to be using our lands to animate the lands? Just saying, alternate mana sources.
And I will dejectedly point out that the premise of the deck has shifted. Rather than being more oriented around Earth Surge and Land-animation, it's been eclipsed by Fastbond/Crucible. *shrug* Too many cooks and all.
WE NEED LAND FETCH. Adding 4 Sylvan Scrying. These will fetch any land we desire. Do we need the Fair? Bam. Do we want a Strip Mine? Bam. We don't have much room in our mana base for Duals and Nature's Lore.
4 Earth Surge
2 Exploration
1 Fastbond
1 Abundance (1 @ +2)
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (8):
4 Sylvan Advocate
Instants (2):
2 Forbidden Alchemy (2 @ -2)
Sorceries (16):
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Rude Awakening
3 Life from the Loam
2 Realms Uncharted
4 Ponder (2 @ -4)
2 Thran Turbine (1 @ -2)
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor
1 Zuran Orb
Lands (30):
4 Hissing Quagmire (2 @ -2)
4 Treetop Village
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Tranquil Thicket
3 Glacial Chasm
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
5 couldabeen Mutavault
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
I'm voting to increase Abundance. I think it synergizes really well with Sylvan Library basically allowing us to draw 3 cards a turn.
I'm voting to cut Life from the Loam because I think Crucible is just better given the direction the deck has taken. Crucible doesn't cost us mana every turn. Also voting to decrease tranquil thicket since it's kind of bad without loam.
I am adding 3 Lumbering Falls to finish our triangle of manlands. This deck is supposed to be all about manlands so the more the the better. In addition I've already stated I think we should go Temur instead of Sultai and this card fits in both of those color combinations.
I'd also consider looking into Halimar Tidecaller and some cards with Awaken but the deck is a little tight as is.
4 Earth Surge
2 Exploration
1 Fastbond
1 Abundance (2 @ +2)
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (4):
4 Sylvan Advocate
Instants (4):
2 Forbidden Alchemy (2 @ -2)
2 Realms Uncharted
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Rude Awakening
3 Life from the Loam (1 @ -3)
4 Ponder (2 @ -4)
Artifacts (10):
2 Thran Turbine (1 @ -2)
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor
1 Zuran Orb
4 Hissing Quagmire (2 @ -2)
4 Treetop Village
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Tranquil Thicket (1 @ -4)
3 Lumbering Falls
3 Glacial Chasm
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
2 couldabeen Mutavault
I don't think we need 4x ponder. It also happens to be restricted in Vintage, and if we're running Fastbond, we're vintage. Voting against 3x ponder, which leaves one. This makes the list vintage legal again. Maybe the last one will get cut later, but even if it doesn't it still gives a little room to sculpt the deck again.
4 Earth Surge
2 Exploration
1 Fastbond
1 Abundance (2 @ +2)
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (4):
4 Sylvan Advocate
Instants (4):
2 Forbidden Alchemy (2 @ -2)
2 Realms Uncharted
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Rude Awakening
3 Life from the Loam (1 @ -3)
1 Ponder (2 @ -1)
Artifacts (10):
2 Thran Turbine (2 @ -2)
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor
1 Zuran Orb
4 Hissing Quagmire (2 @ -2)
4 Treetop Village
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Tranquil Thicket (1 @ -4)
3 Lumbering Falls
3 Glacial Chasm
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
2 couldabeen Mutavault
Also, we have Amulets, Bond, etc. -- adding a single bounceland. Dimir Aqueduct gets us blue/black to turn on our lands.
4 Earth Surge
2 Exploration
1 Fastbond
1 Abundance (2 @ +2)
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (4):
4 Sylvan Advocate
Instants (4):
2 Forbidden Alchemy (2 @ -2)
2 Realms Uncharted
Sorceries (11):
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Rude Awakening
3 Life from the Loam (1 @ -3)
1 Ponder (2 @ -1)
2 Thran Turbine (2 @ -2)
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor
1 Zuran Orb
Lands (30):
4 Hissing Quagmire (2 @ -2)
4 Treetop Village
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Tranquil Thicket (2 @ -4)
3 Lumbering Falls
3 Glacial Chasm
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 couldabeen Mutavault
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
So thicket should be gone?
4 Earth Surge
2 Exploration
1 Fastbond
3 Abundance
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (8):
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Baleful Strix
Instants (4):
2 Forbidden Alchemy (2 @ -2)
2 Realms Uncharted
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Rude Awakening
3 Life from the Loam (1 @ -3)
Artifacts (8):
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor (1 @ -3)
1 Zuran Orb
Lands (30):
2 Hissing Quagmire
4 Treetop Village
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Lumbering Falls
3 Glacial Chasm
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Dryad Arbor
5 couldabeen Mutavault
I'm going to last vote to add abundance as a draw engine and last vote ponder as I don't think the 1 of effect adds much to our game plan
4 Earth Surge
2 Exploration
1 Fastbond
3 Abundance
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (8):
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Baleful Strix
Instants (4):
2 Forbidden Alchemy (2 @ -2)
2 Realms Uncharted
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Rude Awakening
3 Life from the Loam (1 @ -3)
Artifacts (8):
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor (1 @ -3)
1 Zuran Orb
Lands (30):
2 Hissing Quagmire
4 Treetop Village
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Lumbering Falls
3 Glacial Chasm
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Yavimaya Hollow
4 couldabeen Mutavault
I am adding 1 Yavimaya Hollow, because it has good synergy with some of our lands, weaker creatures.
These are the decks that I have constructed, and are ready to play:
01. Ankh Sligh to be exact.
4 Earth Surge
2 Exploration
1 Fastbond
3 Abundance
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (8):
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Baleful Strix
Instants (4):
2 Forbidden Alchemy (2 @ -2)
2 Realms Uncharted
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Rude Awakening
3 Life from the Loam (1 @ -3)
Planeswalkers:
1 Nissa, Vital Force
Artifacts (8):
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor (1 @ -3)
1 Zuran Orb
Lands (30):
2 Hissing Quagmire
4 Treetop Village
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Lumbering Falls
3 Glacial Chasm
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Yavimaya Hollow
4 couldabeen Mutavault
4 Earth Surge
2 Exploration
1 Fastbond
3 Abundance
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (8):
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Baleful Strix
Instants (6):
4 Crop Rotation
2 Realms Uncharted
4 Sylvan Scrying (1 @ -3, 1 @ -4)
3 Rude Awakening
3 Life from the Loam (1 @ -3)
Planeswalkers:
1 Nissa, Vital Force
Artifacts (8):
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor (1 @ -3)
1 Zuran Orb
Lands (30):
2 Hissing Quagmire
4 Treetop Village
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Lumbering Falls
3 Glacial Chasm
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Yavimaya Hollow
4 couldabeen Mutavault
I'm voting to keep Sylvan Scrying as it would not be detrimental to our already flimsy mana base and voting to drop Crop Rotation down to 2.
That said, voting Crucible down to one. We have the Fair to fetch it, and several ways to fetch the Fair. Neither are imperatively vital to our strategy, it's just a safety net. in the worse case, we have Nissa to fetch the Crucible if it's rolled over in a LotL Dredge.
Voting down Lumbering Falls and Glacial Chasm-Lumbering Falls is a good man-land, but we had brute, evasion, and lethality. Hexproof is good thing, but it's only when it's a creature. Honestly, I'd have gone Faerie Conclave. Cheaper to animate, and has Evasion. Bigger body with Hexproof will eat up our mana. [And you people decided to remove some alternate mana sources.]
Chasm is a nice defensive measure, but not neccessary. i'm just trying to open up more lands slots for the ability to animate our lands.
Strix would be a bit hard to get on the field, Wall of Bloosoms could be easier, but doesn't have the nifty Flying/Deathtouch combo. Jungle Barrier likewise.
Adding two Ancient Tomb, we need mana to animate our lands. this mana opens up a few more slots to produce the colors we also need to animate our could-be army.
4 Earth Surge
2 Exploration
1 Fastbond
3 Abundance
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (8):
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Baleful Strix
Instants (6):
4 Crop Rotation (1 @ -2)
2 Realms Uncharted
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Rude Awakening
3 Life from the Loam (1 @ -3)
Planeswalkers:
1 Nissa, Vital Force
Artifacts (8):
2 Crucible of Worlds (1 @ -1)
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor (1 @ -3)
1 Zuran Orb
Lands (30):
2 Hissing Quagmire
4 Treetop Village
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Lumbering Falls (1 @ -1)
2 Ancient Tomb
3 Glacial Chasm (1 @ -1)
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Yavimaya Hollow
4 couldabeen Mutavault
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
4 Earth Surge
2 Exploration
1 Fastbond
3 Abundance
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (8):
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Baleful Strix
Instants (6):
4 Crop Rotation (1 @ -2)
2 Realms Uncharted
4 Sylvan Scrying (1 @ -3)
3 Rude Awakening
3 Life from the Loam (1 @ -3)
Planeswalkers:
1 Nissa, Vital Force
Artifacts (8):
2 Crucible of Worlds (1 @ -1)
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor (1 @ -3)
1 Zuran Orb
Lands (30):
2 Hissing Quagmire
4 Treetop Village
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Lumbering Falls (1 @ -1)
2 Ancient Tomb
2 Glacial Chasm (1 @ -1)
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 couldabeen Mutavault
Vote against 2 Crop Rotations. It's better as trick to hold up and catch out opponents, than as an actual utility card -- since again, while we have no trouble replacing our lands, we need to have a Horn of Greed or similar draw engine to actually keep drawing enough of them, plus Exploration etc. to play them.
Vote against Ancient Tomb. We have severe color requirements, including in manaland activations; as such, the colorless isn't enormously helpful. Plus, we can't regain the life very easily.
Really wish we had white -- feels like Sultai definitely lacks some of the better manlands. Stirring Wildwood and Celestial Colonade both would have helped immensely with the deck IMO.
Regardless: If I'm not mistaken, we can still add lands in the cutting phase, can we not? Since the deck started with 30 lands, we've still got room in our landbase (though we might later vote to reduce the number of lands). As such, I'll add 3 Faerie Conclaves, sine they give us more manlands (ostensibly the focus) at an affordable price. Also, our numbers were off; recounted.
4 Earth Surge
2 Exploration
1 Fastbond
3 Abundance
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (8):
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Baleful Strix
Instants (6):
4 Crop Rotation (2 @ -2)
2 Realms Uncharted
Sorceries (10):
4 Sylvan Scrying (1 @ -3)
3 Rude Awakening
3 Life from the Loam (1 @ -3)
1 Nissa, Vital Force
Artifacts (8):
2 Crucible of Worlds (1 @ -1)
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor (1 @ -3)
1 Zuran Orb
Lands (30):
2 Hissing Quagmire
4 Treetop Village
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Lumbering Falls (1 @ -1)
2 Ancient Tomb (1 @ -2)
2 Glacial Chasm (2 @ -1)
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Faerie Conclave
5 couldabeen Mutavault
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
I agree Bant would have been cool. White adds some strong manlands and Terra Eternal. Black has added no spells (we're using Vintage B/R... why no singleton Vampiric Tutor and Demonic Tutor to smooth out the draws?), although Creeping Tar Pit looks very strong in this deck!
Now for cuts...
1) -1 Glacial Chasm. This card is bananas when you need it and godawful every other time (it doesn't produce mana and has an insane upkeep). As long as we have land tutors to find it when we need it and recursion to get it back, we only need 1 copy.
2) -2 Ancient Tomb. Colorless mana seems really bad. This is a 3-color deck. The manabase is flimsy enough without colorless sources and self-damage. Exploration and Amulet of Vigor are better sources of acceleration.
3) -4 Sylvan Scrying. We do want land tutors, but having both this and Crop Rotation is redundant. We should just pick one route. Either 3-4 Crop Rotation or 3-4 Sylvan Scrying. Not both. Especially with Realms Uncharted already pulling a lot of weight. I think Crop Rotation is better. It's cheaper to cast. And it's an instant, so you can use it to respond to the board state. Crop Rotation can flash in Glacial Chasm to stop an attack, flash in a surprise manland to animate and block (if Amulet of Vigor is out), or find utility lands for cheap. Since thd deck has a land recursion and land draw engine, it can afford to lose a land.
4) -1 Rude Awakening. I'm surprised no one else has voted against this. This is a finisher. We don't need more than 2 copies. The card is awful until we hit 8 lands. At 6 mana, it animates one land as a 2/2. That's it. For 7 mana, it can animate 2 lands. That's pretty weak when we already have so many manlands. It only gets good when you can entwine and attack with 8+ land bears.
5) -1 Abundance. It's really good sometimes, especially with Sylvan Library and Horn of Greed. But other times it does less. And it's slow as a 4 mana enchantment that takes a few turns to start generating much value. It's also is redundant in multiples. We can't double up on replacement effects.
I suggest 1 Academy Ruins as a replacement land for one of the cuts. It protects Crucible and the other artifacts.
4 Earth Surge
2 Exploration
1 Fastbond
3 Abundance (1 @ -1)
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (8):
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Baleful Strix
Instants (6):
4 Crop Rotation (2 @ -2)
2 Realms Uncharted
Sorceries (10):
4 Sylvan Scrying (1 @ -3, 1 @ -4)
3 Rude Awakening (1 @ -1)
3 Life from the Loam (1 @ -3)
1 Nissa, Vital Force
Artifacts (8):
2 Crucible of Worlds (1 @ -1)
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor (1 @ -3)
1 Zuran Orb
Lands (30):
2 Hissing Quagmire
4 Treetop Village
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Lumbering Falls (1 @ -1)
2 Ancient Tomb (2 @ -2)
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Academy Ruins
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Faerie Conclave
5 couldabeen Mutavault
4 Earth Surge
2 Exploration
1 Fastbond
3 Abundance (1 @ -1)
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (8):
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Baleful Strix
Instants (4):
2 Crop Rotation
2 Realms Uncharted
Sorceries (10):
4 Sylvan Scrying (1 @ -3, 1 @ -4)
3 Rude Awakening (1 @ -1)
3 Life from the Loam (1 @ -3)
1 Nissa, Vital Force
Artifacts (8):
2 Crucible of Worlds (1 @ -1)
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor (1 @ -3)
1 Zuran Orb
Lands (30):
2 Hissing Quagmire
4 Treetop Village
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Lumbering Falls (1 @ -1)
2 Ancient Tomb (2 @ -2)
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Academy Ruins
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Faerie Conclave
5 couldabeen Mutavault
I'm gonna vote against 2 crop rotation. I think Sylvan scrying is a better option even if it is a sorcery speed option. With only 2 crucible of worlds in deck we can't afford to take the chance on sacrificing lands. If we don't get crucible we are hurting ourselves greatly.
Voting to cut 2 ancient tomb. Colorless and a loss of life is really bad IMO. Voting to cut 1 abundance. Copies beyond the first are useless and we have no way of trading the extra copies for anything useful. Voting to cut all the Sylvan scryings and I'm combining the votes on it; crop rotation has mid combat applications in case things go south, Sylvan scrying does not.
4 Earth Surge
2 Exploration
1 Fastbond
3 Abundance (2 @ -1)
2 Sylvan Library
Creatures (8):
4 Sylvan Advocate
4 Baleful Strix
Instants (4):
2 Crop Rotation
2 Realms Uncharted
Sorceries (7):
1 Sylvan Scrying (1 @ -1)
3 Rude Awakening (1 @ -1)
3 Life from the Loam (1 @ -3)
1 Nissa, Vital Force
Artifacts (8):
2 Crucible of Worlds (1 @ -1)
2 Horn of Greed
3 Amulet of Vigor (1 @ -3)
1 Zuran Orb
Lands (30):
2 Hissing Quagmire
4 Treetop Village
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Lumbering Falls (1 @ -1)
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Academy Ruins
1 Strip Mine
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Faerie Conclave
7 couldabeen Mutavault
Also, when Crucible of Worlds added, the deck shifted focus.
going bant would have been interesting, though i prefer Sacred Ground over Terra Eternal.
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.