Hello! I've recently tried to make a deck based around copying the opponents and stealing his cards with things like Nightveil Specter. I don't want to waste my money on something not worth it though and that's why I came here for help. I know there are bettter players than me out here and if one of you would take just one minute of his life to take a look at my deck and tell me if it's good, I would be really grateful. One last thing, I know the risks of making such deck, that I rely heavily on my opponent etc, but from my point of view, that risk is worth the fun. Anyway, here's the deck! http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/everything-you-do-i-can-do-it-better/
Cheers!
To help cast off-color spells, something like Fellwar Stone or Chromatic Lantern or Coalition Relic might help. Fellwar Stone has the added benefit of fitting flavorwise, but the others are obviously better cards.
Shape Stealer is weak unless you have a way to protect your own guy. All it does is mirror the opponent's creature, hopefully trading with it, a worse version of just casting Doom Blade on it. But you don't copy abilities. So it can't block flyers, and it will lose combat to creatures with first strike, bushido, flanking, protection, regeneration, persist, undying, or indestructible. If his creature has high toughness and deathtouch, yours will die and his will live. If it has lifelink, opponent will gain life, ending up ahead. If it has a "dies" trigger, opponent will get it and you won't. So anything he does, yours does worse!! Doesn't fit the theme! I'd cut it.
Thanks for being here to help me! I wanted too to add a bunch of Control Magic, but I didn't know what to cut for it. As for Shape Stealer, would Renegade Doppelganger be better? And should I cut lands of other cards to add mana fixer such as Fellwar Stone?
Thanks for being here to help me! I wanted too to add a bunch of Control Magic, but I didn't know what to cut for it. As for Shape Stealer, would Renegade Doppelganger be better? And should I cut lands of other cards to add mana fixer such as Fellwar Stone?
Good question. I wouldn't cut any more lands. 22 is low enough with some of the high mana costs you have. So cut some spells or creatures for Fellwar Stone.
Renegade Doppleganger only copies your own creatures, and only for the rest of your turn, so it might not do what you want it to do. It's better for an aggro deck. You probably want something to copy the opponent's creature. At 2 mana Phantasmal Image is great, but might be out of budget. Otherwise maybe cut this slot for Fellwar Stone?
Slightly different tack, but I've had loads of fun pairing Willbreaker + Opposition. It is pure evil.
One card that seems to have slipped under everyone's radar (and I can't even believe it's a card) is Cryptoplasm. Seriously? Vesuvan Doppelganger wasn't good enough? You had to make it TWO mana cheaper? That is bananas. (Yes, I realize they're different cards but the effect seems virtually indistinguishable in all the games I've played it in.)
One card that seems to have slipped under everyone's radar (and I can't even believe it's a card) is Cryptoplasm. Seriously? Vesuvan Doppelganger wasn't good enough? You had to make it TWO mana cheaper? That is bananas. (Yes, I realize they're different cards but the effect seems virtually indistinguishable in all the games I've played it in.)
He's already running 4 Cryptoplasm.
Yeah, it is pretty amazing. I think the main reasons it is allowed to cost so little are:
- unlike most clones, it doesn't ETB as the creature so you don't copy valuable ETB triggers
- it has to survive as a vulnerable 2/2 until your next turn, making it easy to answer
- it has to "target" the creature, so it can't copy things with Hexproof, Shroud or Protection
Yeah Phantasmal Image would be perfect, but it is indeed a bit our of my budget sadly.. But are you suggesting to cut the 2 drop slot to put Fellwar Stone? Wouldn't that make my deck too slow? By turn three, my opponent can already have a lot of creatures and I'll have only one. Also, while I'm at it, should I replace Redirect with Twincast? Redirect is better when my opponent cast a intant like Doom Blade, but there are a lot of deck with no removal of pump spell and I don't want to have 4 useless cards then. What do you think?
Echo Mage seems dubious, since several of your instants/sorceries are rather expensive as is and he won't do much against aggro decks, plus he requires you leave mana open to copy opponent's stuff. Also, at your curve I would play 24 lands and 4 or 6 mana rocks or so; that'll let you cast clones much earlier and cheaper.
...Dang, just noticed your color requirements. I would definitely throw in 2 or 3 more lands if you can, then, and duals if you have them.
Clone Legion is hugely expensive and hard to cast. If you want to be able to cast it somewhat consistently, I'd throw in a LOT more ramp -- ditto for Worst Fears and Mindleech Mass.
Anyway, looks fun! My friend has a copy/steal EDH deck headed by Dragonlord Silumgar and it's awesome, it's cool to see it in 60-card form. Good luck!
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Wouldn't that make my deck too slow? By turn three, my opponent can already have a lot of creatures and I'll have only one.
This is a definitely possibility. But Shape Stealer isn't much board presence either. It just attacks for 1 damage. On defense, the best case is it trades with 1 attacking creature, something that any 2-cost removal spell (e.g. Doom Blade) or 1-cost 1/1 deathtouch creature (e.g. Sedge Scorpion) can also do. Sometimes it won't even trade with the creature, since it can't copy abilities. So Shape Stealer already isn't doing much to help you build defense.
Would replacing a weak 2-drop with a mana rock slow down your deck? Not necessarily. You'll get to play a 4-drop on turn 3 (or a 3-drop without drawing the 3rd land). But I see your deck list has 15 3-cost stuff and only 7 4-cost stuff, so ramping to 4 might not actually help you much. Now that I see your mana curve, Fellwar Stone may be a bad fit. It helps jump from 2 to 4, something your deck doesn't need to prioritize.
In that case, just replace Shape Stealer with a better 2-drop. Sigiled Starfish to block small things and help fix your draws. Or the classic Fog Bank.
Also, while I'm at it, should I replace Redirect with Twincast? Redirect is better when my opponent cast a intant like Doom Blade, but there are a lot of deck with no removal of pump spell and I don't want to have 4 useless cards then. What do you think?
The new spell Insidious Will solves that dilemma. It lets you either Twincast, Redirect or just Counterspell, depending on which is best in the situation. The drawback is that it costs 4 mana instead of 2. So maybe you want to play 2 Twincast + 2 Insidious Will, or something like that.
The new spell Insidious Will solves that dilemma. It lets you either Twincast, Redirect or just Counterspell, depending on which is best in the situation. The drawback is that it costs 4 mana instead of 2. So maybe you want to play 2 Twincast + 2 Insidious Will, or something like that.
Well Insidious Will seems perfect. I don't know how many I'll add, but I'll definitely add at least 2. I just need to figure out how I will get all that mana since my deck pretty much starts at 3 mana. Thanks!
Echo Mage seems dubious, since several of your instants/sorceries are rather expensive as is and he won't do much against aggro decks, plus he requires you leave mana open to copy opponent's stuff. Also, at your curve I would play 24 lands and 4 or 6 mana rocks or so; that'll let you cast clones much earlier and cheaper.
...Dang, just noticed your color requirements. I would definitely throw in 2 or 3 more lands if you can, then, and duals if you have them.
Clone Legion is hugely expensive and hard to cast. If you want to be able to cast it somewhat consistently, I'd throw in a LOT more ramp -- ditto for Worst Fears and Mindleech Mass.
Anyway, looks fun! My friend has a copy/steal EDH deck headed by Dragonlord Silumgar and it's awesome, it's cool to see it in 60-card form. Good luck!
Thespian's Stage seems like a good fit for me, I think I'll add 2 or 3. Thanks for the suggestion!
Mirror Mockery is amazing. That should be your new 2-drop slot. It properly copies the creature, ETB triggers and abilities and all. And fits your flavor.
The best thing about Mirror Mockery is that you don't even have to block the same creature. If opponent attacks you with 2 creatures and Mockery is on the bigger one, you can choose to block the smaller one with the token (killing it). You'll take some damage. But then if opponent attacks with the bigger one again next turn you can copy it and block and trade with it too! You might get to kill 2+ creatures with one card! Even the threat of that might stop opponent from attacking with other creatures, saving you some early damage. Or he might hold the Mockery creature back forever. Either way, it slows down the early damage.
Mirror Mockery is amazing. That should be your new 2-drop slot. It properly copies the creature, ETB triggers and abilities and all. And fits your flavor.
The best thing about Mirror Mockery is that you don't even have to block the same creature. If opponent attacks you with 2 creatures and Mockery is on the bigger one, you can choose to block the smaller one with the token (killing it). You'll take some damage. But then if opponent attacks with the bigger one again next turn you can copy it and block and trade with it too! You might get to kill 2+ creatures with one card! Even the threat of that might stop opponent from attacking with other creatures, saving you some early damage. Or he might hold the Mockery creature back forever. Either way, it slows down the early damage.
I agree, it's a really great card. Not only a cool, unlimited blocker, but it can also trigger ''enter the battlefield'' effects and ''leave the battlefield'' effects multiple times! Thanks for your advice! I'll keep you informed if I find new cards that could fit
I considered Annex already. Yeah it would fit well, but I don't know what I could possibly cut for it! I thought about a Shared Fate deck, but it's a different idea and I'd like to finish this deck first. As for Bribery or Vedalken Shackles, I'd love to include some, but my small budget won't allow it. I liked the idea of Commandeer, but because of it's high cost, I find it too situational. To really be worth it, you should use it on a high cost spell, not everyone has those kind, so I don't know. Thanks for your suggestions though! Now I got more cards to think about...
Rite of Replication seems great! I might add some, I just need to fin what to cut for it. Mirror Gallery could be in the sideboard, but I don't think enough people plays with legendaries for it to be always useful. Memnarch is nice too. Might include it, but I think if a artifact is worth stealing, I'll get it with Praetor's Grasp and therefore I don't need Thada Adel, Acquisitor. Thanks!
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Cheers!
The new card Gonti, Lord of Luxury fits your plan perfectly.
Shape Stealer is weak unless you have a way to protect your own guy. All it does is mirror the opponent's creature, hopefully trading with it, a worse version of just casting Doom Blade on it. But you don't copy abilities. So it can't block flyers, and it will lose combat to creatures with first strike, bushido, flanking, protection, regeneration, persist, undying, or indestructible. If his creature has high toughness and deathtouch, yours will die and his will live. If it has lifelink, opponent will gain life, ending up ahead. If it has a "dies" trigger, opponent will get it and you won't. So anything he does, yours does worse!! Doesn't fit the theme! I'd cut it.
What about Control Magic, Ray of Command, Hypnotic Siren, or something like that?
Phyrexian Ingester might fit flavorwise, and is good card.
Good question. I wouldn't cut any more lands. 22 is low enough with some of the high mana costs you have. So cut some spells or creatures for Fellwar Stone.
Renegade Doppleganger only copies your own creatures, and only for the rest of your turn, so it might not do what you want it to do. It's better for an aggro deck. You probably want something to copy the opponent's creature. At 2 mana Phantasmal Image is great, but might be out of budget. Otherwise maybe cut this slot for Fellwar Stone?
One card that seems to have slipped under everyone's radar (and I can't even believe it's a card) is Cryptoplasm. Seriously? Vesuvan Doppelganger wasn't good enough? You had to make it TWO mana cheaper? That is bananas. (Yes, I realize they're different cards but the effect seems virtually indistinguishable in all the games I've played it in.)
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He's already running 4 Cryptoplasm.
Yeah, it is pretty amazing. I think the main reasons it is allowed to cost so little are:
- unlike most clones, it doesn't ETB as the creature so you don't copy valuable ETB triggers
- it has to survive as a vulnerable 2/2 until your next turn, making it easy to answer
- it has to "target" the creature, so it can't copy things with Hexproof, Shroud or Protection
This doesn't help, but maybe Vesuva or Thespian's Stage fits? Also, Mirrorpool. Stage and Pool might be too much though for a deck trying to cast Lazav, Dimir Mastermind, Nightveil Specter, etc.
...Dang, just noticed your color requirements. I would definitely throw in 2 or 3 more lands if you can, then, and duals if you have them.
Clone Legion is hugely expensive and hard to cast. If you want to be able to cast it somewhat consistently, I'd throw in a LOT more ramp -- ditto for Worst Fears and Mindleech Mass.
Anyway, looks fun! My friend has a copy/steal EDH deck headed by Dragonlord Silumgar and it's awesome, it's cool to see it in 60-card form. Good luck!
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
This is a definitely possibility. But Shape Stealer isn't much board presence either. It just attacks for 1 damage. On defense, the best case is it trades with 1 attacking creature, something that any 2-cost removal spell (e.g. Doom Blade) or 1-cost 1/1 deathtouch creature (e.g. Sedge Scorpion) can also do. Sometimes it won't even trade with the creature, since it can't copy abilities. So Shape Stealer already isn't doing much to help you build defense.
Would replacing a weak 2-drop with a mana rock slow down your deck? Not necessarily. You'll get to play a 4-drop on turn 3 (or a 3-drop without drawing the 3rd land). But I see your deck list has 15 3-cost stuff and only 7 4-cost stuff, so ramping to 4 might not actually help you much. Now that I see your mana curve, Fellwar Stone may be a bad fit. It helps jump from 2 to 4, something your deck doesn't need to prioritize.
In that case, just replace Shape Stealer with a better 2-drop. Sigiled Starfish to block small things and help fix your draws. Or the classic Fog Bank.
The new spell Insidious Will solves that dilemma. It lets you either Twincast, Redirect or just Counterspell, depending on which is best in the situation. The drawback is that it costs 4 mana instead of 2. So maybe you want to play 2 Twincast + 2 Insidious Will, or something like that.
Well Insidious Will seems perfect. I don't know how many I'll add, but I'll definitely add at least 2. I just need to figure out how I will get all that mana since my deck pretty much starts at 3 mana. Thanks!
Thespian's Stage seems like a good fit for me, I think I'll add 2 or 3. Thanks for the suggestion!
The best thing about Mirror Mockery is that you don't even have to block the same creature. If opponent attacks you with 2 creatures and Mockery is on the bigger one, you can choose to block the smaller one with the token (killing it). You'll take some damage. But then if opponent attacks with the bigger one again next turn you can copy it and block and trade with it too! You might get to kill 2+ creatures with one card! Even the threat of that might stop opponent from attacking with other creatures, saving you some early damage. Or he might hold the Mockery creature back forever. Either way, it slows down the early damage.
I agree, it's a really great card. Not only a cool, unlimited blocker, but it can also trigger ''enter the battlefield'' effects and ''leave the battlefield'' effects multiple times! Thanks for your advice! I'll keep you informed if I find new cards that could fit
There's also Bribery, Sower of temptation and Vedalken Shackles, but I don't know your budget.
You could also go complete jank and build a shared fate deck.