I'm sure this has been done before: If you know of any good examples, links would be appreciated!
We may never see a sequel to Unhinged. I've been "working" on my own sequel instead. That is, I've drafted ~50 cards or so, with the beginnings of a few cycles and themes.
If you were a fan of Unglued and Unhinged -- or even if you've never heard of them -- I'd like your help in finishing "Unbelievable" (provisional name).
That is: Add cards! Improve cards! Make up your own cards and cycles! Just keep everything fair and balanced (this needs to work as a Sealed format), and brainstorm in the spirit of Unglued and Unhinged. I can't wait to see what you come up with.
(With enough interest, I might commission some art, clean up the rules text, and try adding it to pseudo-drafting websites. It would at least be cheaper than buying a Modern deck.)
Here are examples of a few cycles, alongside some singleton cards:
The Baby Legend Cycle
Magic's greatest overpriced legends -- as kids.
Baby Akroma, Angel of Wrath
WWW -- Legendary Creature: Baby Angel
Flying, first strike, vigilance, trample, haste, protection from black and from red
1/1
Baby Lorthos, the Tidemaker
UUU -- Legendary Creature: Baby Octopus
Whenever Baby Lorthos, the Tidemaker attacks, you may pay (3). If you do, tap up to three target permanents. Those permanents don't untap during their controllers' next untap step.
1/1
The Subjectivity Cycle
One of the set's major themes. Since Un sets are only released in paper, this should be feasible, though it may be too frustrating to be practical. I'd be glad to see better wordings and other suggestions!
Keyword: Third Party (when this card's Third Party ability is activated, ask one or more people who are not you, nor your opponent, to judge the outcome. If no other people are present, flip a coin instead.)
Decapitate
1B -- Instant
Third Party: Choose a creature on the battlefield. If your third party believes that the creature has a neck, destroy it. Otherwise, it gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
"Some people would say that a snake is one big neck."
"Well, Heidegger would say that there is a distinction between having and being."
Controversial Penguin
2U -- Creature: Bird
Third Party: When Controversial Penguin enters the battlefield, it gains flying if, according to your third party, it seems like it ought to be able to fly.
2/3
Sneaky Snake
1G -- Creature: Snake
Third Party: Sneaky Snake cannot be blocked as long as, according to your third party, it could successfully hide within one of the defending player's lands.
G: Regenerate Sneaky Snake.
2/1
The Wishful Thinking Cycle
Creatures that start off mediocre but could become awesome! So it's like kicker. Or monstrous. Or EMN werewolves. Or... well, no one says these things have to be completely original. The twist: All the added abilities live in the creature's flavor text, and can only be turned on by certain spells and abilities.
Bird or Angel
2W -- Creature: Bird Illusion
2/2
"Flying, first strike, lifelink."
--Gil, Wishful Thinker
Gil, Wishful Thinker
1UW -- Legendary Creature: Human Wizard
If the flavor text of a spell or permanent you control is also legal rules text, that flavor text counts as rules text.
2/2
"Aw, man! One more point of damage would've done it."
A few more cards:
Durdle Charm
Instant -- U
Choose one --
Target creature gains or loses a creature type of your choice.
Change the text of target spell or permanent by replacing all instances of one color word with another.
Tap target creature.
Look at the top card of target player's library.
Draw a card. Then, if you drew a card, discard that card.
"Draw three cards."
--Gil, Wishful Thinker
Big Blink
5W -- Instant
Exile target player, then return that player to the game.
(In the following order: Exile all permanents that player controls from the game, then return them to play. Counter all spells targeting that player or a permanent that player controls. Remove all cards in that player's hand, library, and graveyard from the game, then return those cards to their respective zones. Place all face-up exiled cards that player owns into their owner's graveyard.)
Third Party: If any rules questions arise that Wizards of the Coast hasn't addressed within this card's rules text, have your third party figure it out.
So: What do you think? What cards should be a part of this set?
Loving third party, wishful thinker not so much. It doesn't do anything unless that Gil guy is in play and that just doesn't lead to the kind of fun gameplay you expect from unsets. Also the things it does do are, while powerful, not terribly interesting.
Edit: Also your "charm" has too many modes. I know its an unset but I think it should still follow the "pick one from three" rule that charms follow.
Edit2: Maybe Gil would be more interesting if he just made all flavor text into rules text. Then you could just hide abilities in creatures flavor text. That way it becomes a little minigame to find out what cards gil actually affects and it allows him to affect cards from other sets.
Edit3: And give him third party to sort out any issues that might come up.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
I can make no promises, but after being on MTGSalvation for a very long time, and saying how I was going to keep posting to a thread, this is the first thread I have bookmarked. This looks really awesome! I loved unglued/unhinged. I would love to be able to draft it again, and if a decent set can be made, I could print it, sleeve it, and effectively do a cube draft with it.
I looked through some lists of RGB legends to try and find some other useful babies. Didn't find any really epic legends in Red, other than maybe akroma and you can change baby akroma to the red version, then add a new baby white legend. But I did come up with these;
Baby Kokusho
BBB - Legendary Creature: Baby Dragon
Flying, whenever this creature dies, all opponents lose 2 life, and you gain life equal to the total life lost this way.
2/2
Baby Multani
GGG - Legendary Creature: Baby Maro
X is the average number of cards in all players hands rounded down (add up all the cards in all players hands, divide by the number of players, and round down). Shroud.
X/X
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I basically only play EDH:
Damia, Jenara, Xiahou Dun, Mareth, Nekusar, Oloro, Kresh, Deretti
I sort of agree, but Vault, I think OP was giving that as a simple example. There could be an artifact with activation for target wishful thinking, a few instants with the side effect of wishful thinking a target. Maybe an instant that did it to all cards. There could be sorceries that do it until your next upkeep. There could be CIP effects that permanently activate wishful thinking on target card.
I think there is some potential development there, but as currently stated, yeah, seems weird, but then again, that is what Un- sets are for.
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I basically only play EDH:
Damia, Jenara, Xiahou Dun, Mareth, Nekusar, Oloro, Kresh, Deretti
I get that there is definitely some potential with flavor text becoming rules text but the current wishful thinking is just boring. Silver border is about doing stuff you can't do in black border and aside from keeping these effects in the flavor text there is no reason why this can't be black border. It's simply a mechanic that makes cards better if you've met a certain requirement. It's not bad but it's not really something you expect in an unset.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
Agreed Vault. I think it has some interesting potential, but as it stands it doesn't right now.
wish there were more people involved here... could be a great thread.
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I basically only play EDH:
Damia, Jenara, Xiahou Dun, Mareth, Nekusar, Oloro, Kresh, Deretti
I'm trying to flesh out the very basics of the mechanics, but you're right that even the "vanilla" cards for a given ability need to be interesting. Hopefully, some of that interest could be done through art, but we don't have that luxury yet.
The point of Durdle Charm (as I had intended it) is that it does a lot of different "useless" things -- I was trying to find the smallest effects you could add to a card. Ideally it would have even more modes, and the average mode would be even weaker, letting players durdle even harder. The joke might not come across, though. More troublesome is that I can't just pull the same trick for every color -- not sure what the variations for WBRG would be.
Here are a few more cards. Please post your own! Even cards totally unrelated to anything else here!
Hypothesize (Wishful Thinking support card)
U -- Instant
Choose one:
The rules text of target creature becomes flavor text.
The flavor text of target spell or creature becomes rules text. Choose this mode only if the flavor text of that spell or creature is also legal rules text.
The awkward division between "creature" and "spell or creature" may require that only creatures gain Wishful Thinking. After all, taking away the "rules text" of a spell essentially means countering it (or would, for any reasonable definition of that ability).
Logarithmic Growth
2G -- Instant
Target creature gains +X/+X until end of turn, where X is the cube root of its collector number.
One of the fun parts of an Un set is using the entire card. I don't know if I'd want collector numbers to be a huge part of the set, but they haven't gotten much attention (if I recall correctly) from the other Un sets.
Odd or Even
2U -- Sorcery
Choose a card in your hand. Target opponent guesses whether that card's collector number is odd or even. You may reveal the card. If you do, and your opponent guessed wrong, draw three cards. Otherwise, draw a card.
The original version of this card cost 1U and was either "draw three" or "draw zero". But I feel like modern Limited tries to avoid anything quite that punishing, and I want to stay true to the way the game is designed now. Will probably need tweaks to cost and/or numbers.
Red Wedding
3RR -- Sorcery
Red Wedding deals 2 damage to each of up to two target creatures or players. Put a legendary 1/1 Human Shaman Baby creature token into play named Baby Chandra Nalaar with "T: Baby Chandra Nalaar deals 1 damage to target creature or player".
Another fun aspect of Un set design is playing with flavor from the most recent Magic stories. I picture the art for this card being a passionate kiss between Mom and Dad Nalaar -- but the church is on fire. Could be made cheaper and without the baby token (since I'm not sure Baby Chandra was a canonical fire-user anyway).
Pushed Green Common (Third Party)
2G -- Creature: Beast
Third Party: When Pushed Green Common enters the battlefield, have your third party decide whether this card is fair. If they decide that it isn't, put a -1/-1 counter on it.
3/4
Not much to say here -- just more support for the set's basic themes. My hope is that Third Party plays out like Investigate or Cycling -- helping more games play out competitively, with fewer runaway massacres. (I'd guess that most third parties will make decisions that lead to close, exciting games -- especially since trying to screw someone over may result in payback later on in the tournament.)
Preventative Measures (Third Party)
1B
Third Party: Target opponent reveals his or her hand. Choose a nonland card in it. Explain to your third party why you should be allowed to discard that card. If your third party agrees with you, the chosen opponent discards that card. Otherwise, that player discards a card at random.
"Honestly, Thought-Knot Seer was never a fair card. And wouldn't the irony be simply delicious?"
City of Stars
Land
As City of Stars enters the battlefield, you may pay (2). If you do, City of Stars enters the battlefield with a premium counter on it.
T: Add (1) to your mana pool.
T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Use this ability only if there are one or more premium counters on City of Stars.
"Huh. I wouldn't have guessed that Sam Black plays Kobold tribal in Modern."
The nice thing about not being WOTC-affiliated is that we can reference other gaming companies! For another example, see:
Channel Fireball (edit: wrote out the text wrong, realized that when Vault pointed it out)
GGR - Sorcery
Cast Channel Fireball only if your life total is at or below 10.
As an additional cost to cast Channel Fireball, pay X life, where X is your life total minus 1.
Channel Fireball deals X damage to target creature or player.
The "at or below X" number can be adjusted, of course. This would be crazy overpowered if you could play it at 20, but it might go from "janky fun" to "respectable" without being overpowered if players could pay any amount of life instead.
I like the idea of Channel Fireball but the actual card you've designed is just terrible. A super inefficient burn spell, that also nearly kills you, and can't be used at all sometimes, with no upside. It needs to look like it's a combined version of Channel and Fireball. Maybe something like this.
Channel Fireball
RG - Sorcery
As an additional cost to cast Channel Fireball pay X life.
Third Party - Your third party decides whether you get to make X mana or deal X damage.
Something like that maybe?
I like all your third party design cards. It's probably the best mechanic we have so far. I'm indifferent to the baby creatures. Wishful Thinking still isn't grokkable. The whole "The flavor text has to be legal rules text" part adds a bunch of complexity for a set that is supposed to be all about jokes and it makes the cards completely useless outside of this specific set.
Collectors numbers mattering is a great idea but that whole cube root thing has got to go. Stopping in the middle of your game to determine a cube root is about as far from fun as you can get. Keep it simple, like so.
Counting Counter
UU - Instant
Counter target spell if it's converted mana cost is lower than all the numbers in it's collector number added together.
Down the Ramp
1G - Sorcery
Search your library for a land card whose collector number is lower than this cards collector number and put that land into play tapped. Shuffle your library.
Some kinda burn spell
2R - Instant
Target opponent reveals a card at random from his or her hand. Deal X damage to that opponent where X is the highest number in that cards collector number.
Those are a little loose but I think you get my drift.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
Making a second post for this idea I came up with today. Really wordy spells with simple effects that either only work or are better as long as you don't mess up reading their text box out loud. For instance.
Target
U - Instant
Target a target that is targeting another target. The target targeted by Target is countered. As long as you read this out loud and didn't mess up you may draw a card.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
Oh, I've always loved un-sets! I had some ideas with friends for an Unzipped set, with different mechanics:
Common Pot: this ability allows player to use real money instead of mana or life (between 10 and 25cts.) All the money is put on a common pot in the middle of the table and some cards allow players to get all or part of the pot back. The winner collects the common pot at the end of the game. Many ideas with that:
A white enchantment that gives +1/+1 to enchanted creature for each 20ct in the common pot ;
A blue enchantment that says "whenever enchanted creature deals combat damage to a player, you may draw a card unless that player chooses to put 20ct in the common pot." ;
An enchantment or creature that'd say "when ETB, if you have put nothing in the common pot since the beginning of the game, you win the game." ;
A black Rogue creature who could steal cents in the common pot everytime it deals combat damage to a player ;
A parody of Bob, with: "At the beginning of your upkeep, reveal the top card of your library et put it in your hand. Put as much 10ct as this card's converted mana cost ;
A WB creature that makes you win the game if, during the game, you put at least a certain amount of money in the common pot ;
A land cycle that enters the battlefield tapped unless you pay 20ct...
A card that allows you to replace some money with a card you own outside the game or an object...
Players can replace money with poker chips, for example, if they don't want to bid money ^^
We also created the "Serves you right" mechanic (I'm French, so the name might be a little bit strange), which activates whenever an opponent complains about something ; for instance:
A blue spell with "if an opponent complained about you countering a spell he or she played this turn, you may..."
A green creature spell with: "if an opponent complains about you playing (again) a spell this turn, ~ enters the battlefield with two +1/+1 counters on it"
I guess you get the idea
We also created some cards that play with time, like:
A bomb artifact with: "when ETB, start a 5 minutes timer. At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player gains control of ~. When the timer ends, ~'s controller lose 5 life."
Or a card with: "At the beginning of each player's upkeep, start a 1:30 timer. If the timer ends while this player hasn't ended its turn, he or she put the top two cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard and ends his or her turn."
And some cards playing with voting too. Many of our cards contained french puns, so they won't be appropriated here, but if you want to see some other ideas or arts we found, tell me
Oh, I've always loved un-sets! I had some ideas with friends for an Unzipped set, with different mechanics:
Common Pot: this ability allows player to use real money instead of mana or life (between 10 and 25cts.) All the money is put on a common pot in the middle of the table and some cards allow players to get all or part of the pot back. The winner collects the common pot at the end of the game. Many ideas with that:
A white enchantment that gives +1/+1 to enchanted creature for each 20ct in the common pot ;
A blue enchantment that says "whenever enchanted creature deals combat damage to a player, you may draw a card unless that player chooses to put 20ct in the common pot." ;
An enchantment or creature that'd say "when ETB, if you have put nothing in the common pot since the beginning of the game, you win the game." ;
A black Rogue creature who could steal cents in the common pot everytime it deals combat damage to a player ;
A parody of Bob, with: "At the beginning of your upkeep, reveal the top card of your library et put it in your hand. Put as much 10ct as this card's converted mana cost ;
A WB creature that makes you win the game if, during the game, you put at least a certain amount of money in the common pot ;
A land cycle that enters the battlefield tapped unless you pay 20ct...
A card that allows you to replace some money with a card you own outside the game or an object...
Players can replace money with poker chips, for example, if they don't want to bid money ^^
We also created the "Serves you right" mechanic (I'm French, so the name might be a little bit strange), which activates whenever an opponent complains about something ; for instance:
A blue spell with "if an opponent complained about you countering a spell he or she played this turn, you may..."
A green creature spell with: "if an opponent complains about you playing (again) a spell this turn, ~ enters the battlefield with two +1/+1 counters on it"
I guess you get the idea
We also created some cards that play with time, like:
A bomb artifact with: "when ETB, start a 5 minutes timer. At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player gains control of ~. When the timer ends, ~'s controller lose 5 life."
Or a card with: "At the beginning of each player's upkeep, start a 1:30 timer. If the timer ends while this player hasn't ended its turn, he or she put the top two cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard and ends his or her turn."
And some cards playing with voting too. Many of our cards contained french puns, so they won't be appropriated here, but if you want to see some other ideas or arts we found, tell me
I believe there are some legal issues involving bidding actual money. There are also some gameplay issues, like what if people don't have spare change on them. The same thing is true with the timer. Yeah most people have smart phones but if you don't already have a stop watch app you have to stop your game to download one? This just leads to slow gameplay. People should not be expected to bring a whole bunch of random stuff to games.
I do like the "serves you right" mechanic though. It's reminiscent of "Gotcha" and that played out really well.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
As I was reading, make sure you specify between DIGIT and NUMBER, the largest number in 456 is weird language wise, the largest digit in 456 is 6. End math nerd rant.
cube root of 92 is somewhere between 4 and 5. so the card at the least would need to specify whether to round up or down, but the poster of the comment of cube root of 92 makes a valid point; I like it, but others may not be able to rough round cubes like a math nerd. Perhaps list out the first 7 cubes in flavor text, so people could see what it is between easily, and just have round up or round down ruling.
I like the idea of common pot, but that starts getting into ante (I love ante for signatures btw), and gambling, and unfortunately not something that is useful. Perhaps introduce a new resource to the game; everyone starts with 10-20 chips, and those can be used for the common pot mechanic. A limited resource that you could take, or give for benefits, and some effects require payment of, and if you can't pay some other option.
I am also a fan of the third party having the 2 options depending on the way it rules. The only issue is collusion, which although in casual not that relevant, can make people feel horrible, if for some reason the third party wants to be a jerk to them, and their opponent keeps picking the jerk as the third party.
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I basically only play EDH:
Damia, Jenara, Xiahou Dun, Mareth, Nekusar, Oloro, Kresh, Deretti
I like third party, but I feel it should be used in legitimite cards (ie Controversial Penguin) rather than as a way to avoid rules issues. After all, everyone knows the best way to deal with Un-rules issues is to ignore them No seriously though, I love The Big Blink, but I feel like it would play better if players have to figure out how it works for themselves (some basic reminder text notwithstanding). Third party just shuts down otherwise 'fun' arguments.
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"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Thanks for the commentary and card ideas, everyone!
Xyx: I love "Tango Down". Thanks for the contribution!
Vault: Good thoughts on collector numbers. Something to keep in mind is that collector numbers go in order by color (WUBRG, I think, then colorless cards and lands). The set would have to be carefully balanced between "high numbers good" and "low numbers good" to keep color balance. And Down the Ramp would either be blank or be Super Sylvan Scrying depending on the high/low decision. I guess collector numbers for the set could be random -- that doesn't seem like it would be harmful, since I'd guess the numbers have mostly outlived their original purpose. Probably better to keep the flavor/history of having colors duke it out, though!
As for Logarithmic Growth: My hope is that every game will contain one player who has a calculator app on their phone -- those are generally easy to find, though I suppose many calculator apps might not be capable of cube roots. Having a solid theme of "digits matter" rather than "value of number matters" is probably best.
Listing out cubes in flavor text is also a fun idea -- or, better yet, listing them on a special card inside a pack (like a flip checklist). There could be all kinds of "special cards" in this set that would make casual players wonder what the heck their opponent could have.
Chesterspeed: Regarding "Common Pot": It's a really fun ability, especially if we take away the money. I love the idea of a communal "counter pool" that lets both players squabble over resources, decide whether they want the pot to be bigger or smaller, etc. If we want to preserve the flavor of "money", we could have the "chip counters" in the common pot be redeemable when players "withdraw" them.
For example (not an actual card):
Daretti's Dreidel
Artifact
T: Spin Daretti's Dreidel on the table. If it makes at least two rotations and comes to a stop facing you, remove all Chip Counters from the communal pot and put a Chip token into play for each counter removed this way.
squiggleart: Perhaps collusion could be avoided for Third Party through one of the following methods?
"Choose a third party you haven't chosen this match."
"All players choose a third party together."
"Target opponent chooses a third party." (So you can't take too much advantage of having a friend.)
"Shout 'Third Party!' at a reasonable volume. The first person who replies "How can I help?" becomes your third party."
...or something totally different.
Vault: Not that Wishful Thinking needs to be saved, but here are some thoughts on improving it:
Change the concept to "any number of words in this creature's flavor text become rules text": It adds more variety to what the flavor text can be, while avoiding the "legal" awkwardness -- if an actual quote "becomes rules text", nothing happens. Plus, cards from outside of this set may have flavor text with surprising applications if you choose your words carefully.
Make all of the cards playable on their own (e.g. Bird or Angel is a 2/2 flyer and just gains lifelink/vigilance), so that they're less terrible outside the set.
Forget about flavor text altogether. Make Wishful Thinking sort of like a Kamigawa flip card: It's an extra line of text that can be "turned on" and "turned off" by various cards. This would turn it into just another version of flipping/transforming/etc., but with unique flavor (players wishing they had better cards, were luckier, etc.).
As for that last point: Un sets definitely need to do things that can't be done in black-border -- but I'd argue that this isn't what exclusively happens. S.N.O.T. is essentially Meld before Meld. Clambassadors, aside from the art, is a card that could be printed in any set today. Staying Power would be a reasonable Johnny card in any set. (Of course, without art, these mechanics might need to work harder than they would for other sets, so my excuses aren't perfect.)
Yeah, maybe using real money is a bit "dangerous" ^^' But we can replace it with chips or even +1/+1 counters !
But for the timer, I disagree with you, Vault256 :/ Having a timer isn't that complicated, espacially if you know you'll need one It's like having tons of dices, coins, or even paper and pens to write down things (I'm more likely to have a timer than a pen actually :p) And it can lead to funny effects, IMO, that match well with the un-atmosphere.
So for common pot I think the idea of a chip token you put in play is the best one we have so far. It could be shared between both players and we can have ways to win the pot and you get some sort of advantage for every chip you won.
Aaron: Number 1 was basically my suggestion for what we should do with wishful thinking if we kept it. I know that green comes before lands in sets, but if this unset is a large set then this green card would have a higher collector number than lands from small sets but a lower collector number than lands from other large sets. This was done intentionally.
I still disagree with the timer thing. I never played unglued but I did play a lot of unhinged. The fun cards were those that did something you had never expected without ruining the flow of the game or be too obstructive. For instance no one ever wanted to play with Red-hot Hottie because screaming at the top of your lungs was disruptive. No one ever actually used their shoes as counters for Shoe Tree because most people don't like taking their shoes off and putting them on the table.
Ass whuppin, was a fun card because it let you mess with other peoples games but didn't actually disrupt game flow. Gotcha was a fun mechanic, the artist matters cards were interesting.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
Put a token onto the battlefield that’s a copy of a creature with at least one female in its art.
If you and at least one other player disagree whether there is a female in that creature’s art, exile that creature instead unless a third party agrees that there is at least one female in its art.
Tolerate (barely): General silliness and nonsense.
Utterly despise/refuse to play against: Anything that forces me to choose between doing unfun stuff and losing, such as keeping my mouth shut because of a Number Crunch ("How big is that creature?", "What's your life total again?", constantly being on guard for Cheatyfaces, or paying for stupid premium cards because of Super Secret Tech. MaRo deserves to get tarred and feathered for those.
Note that all my examples are Unhinged cards. Unglued was silly and tame. Unhinged got dialed to 11, and in doing so ruined silver-bordered cards forever. I would not be comfortable playing in a game where silver-bordered cards were allowed unless there was a huge banlist that included all of the stupid Gotcha cards and then some. The few gems do not outweigh the massive annoyance of not being allowed to communicate properly.
Clearly we have different ideas for what silver bordered is for then. The cards that could "work" in black bordered were my least favorite and stuff like "Gotcha" was great. The way I see it, silver bordered is for doing things you can't do in black bordered. If you could do this effect in black border but it's just a little weird than you're not doing silver bordered justice.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
I never got the "chance" to play with an Un-set, but I really wish I could, precisely for the totally wacky effects I understand that cards that say "tear me in pieces to do something" might be a bit too much, but effects that affect players or change the way you play Magic look really fun!
By the way, I thought of something quite important for the set, as I was watching some cards of the two previous ones: each one revolves around an animal ; Unhinged with the donkeys (and the horseshoe expansion symbol) and Unglued with the chickens (and the egg symbol.) A significant part a the sets played with that, with puns, "lords" and stuff.
What could the Unfinished Mascot could be? A cat (making puns with ***** might be funny, althought a bit coarse)? A duck? A pig?
Sounds like Xyx isn't cut out for the silver-bordered universe!
I've never played in an Un- draft or Un- only environment, but I have played plenty of multiplayer FFA with Un- cards. Let me tell you, it's a blast.
I tend to run "real" decks with Un- cards for *****s and giggles, to make sure that craziness ensues!
My favorite Un- card is Goblin Bookie. I have a coin-flip fetish and this guy rocks. Was using him with Mana Screw, Krark's Thumb, Chance Encounter, and Quicksilver Elemental. Soooo much fun.
Unglued was more about the jokes than the mechanics. Unhinged went the opposite direction and really worked out fun but odd mechanics. The real purpose of Un- sets, they are a place where Mark Rosewater can toy around with card mechanics that would otherwise scare the crap out of R&D. Many of the cards or mechanics have migrated to the black-bordered universe.
While I'm a huge fan and would love to see another Un- set, I really doubt we will. They are hugely divisive. Tournament grinders and Spikes really hate them, and many casuals are even unsure about them. Un- sets are immensely fun and inexpensive. You can actually acquire both complete sets on e-bay for @ $250(U.S.).
Actual conversation during a game:
Nathan: "I attack you with Cheatyface."
Me: "When did you play a Cheatyface?"
Nathan: "Pft, long enough ago to attack you."
Me: "Wait, where did you even get a Cheatyface?" (me knowing he hadn't bought any Unhinged)
Nathan: "I stole it from you!"
There's something funny about getting smacked by a Cheatyface that your friend has stolen from you. No better way to play it!
I love the idea of the Common Pot mechanic, have you considered Gold tokens, ala Gild, they're already a thing and have practical use. Think about it.
Perodesquo: Using Gold tokens is interesting! After all, everyone loves fast mana, and maybe it's better not to have something so Clue-like immediately after the Clue set.
Just came here to post this:
Hatebear Hatebear
WW
Creature -- Bear Soldier
First Strike
If an effect an opponent controls would increase the cost of a spell you cast, it instead decreases the cost of that spell by the same amount.
If an effect an opponent controls would stop you from casting a spell, you may cast that spell anyway.
2/2
(Art: A bear wearing armor is shaking hands with Griselbrand, as a Containment Priest nurses a black eye nearby.)
Alternate names: "Fairbear", "Bear of Love", "Meta-Hatebear".
* * * * *
Keep the card ideas coming! Especially if they involve some animal that could be thematic for the set. (Rabbits? Penguins?)
You could have artifacts, enchantment, and effects that create gold tokens for betting. I've always been fascinated by the idea of a "gambling" mechanic for MTG.
Slot Machine 3
artifact
Bet two gold tokens: roll 3d6, if you get two of a kind you win four gold tokens. If you get three of a kind you win the common pot.
Any player may activate this ability any time they could play a sorcery.
At any time a player controls 100 or more gold tokens that player wins the game. If two or more players control 100 or more gold tokens, the player with the most wins.
Also I vote for goldfish to be the set animal. Then the set symbol could be a fish bowl.
We may never see a sequel to Unhinged. I've been "working" on my own sequel instead. That is, I've drafted ~50 cards or so, with the beginnings of a few cycles and themes.
If you were a fan of Unglued and Unhinged -- or even if you've never heard of them -- I'd like your help in finishing "Unbelievable" (provisional name).
That is: Add cards! Improve cards! Make up your own cards and cycles! Just keep everything fair and balanced (this needs to work as a Sealed format), and brainstorm in the spirit of Unglued and Unhinged. I can't wait to see what you come up with.
(With enough interest, I might commission some art, clean up the rules text, and try adding it to pseudo-drafting websites. It would at least be cheaper than buying a Modern deck.)
Here are examples of a few cycles, alongside some singleton cards:
The Baby Legend Cycle
Magic's greatest overpriced legends -- as kids.
Baby Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Flying, first strike, vigilance, trample, haste, protection from black and from red
1/1
Baby Lorthos, the Tidemaker
Whenever Baby Lorthos, the Tidemaker attacks, you may pay (3). If you do, tap up to three target permanents. Those permanents don't untap during their controllers' next untap step.
1/1
The Subjectivity Cycle
One of the set's major themes. Since Un sets are only released in paper, this should be feasible, though it may be too frustrating to be practical. I'd be glad to see better wordings and other suggestions!
Keyword: Third Party (when this card's Third Party ability is activated, ask one or more people who are not you, nor your opponent, to judge the outcome. If no other people are present, flip a coin instead.)
Decapitate
Third Party: Choose a creature on the battlefield. If your third party believes that the creature has a neck, destroy it. Otherwise, it gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
"Some people would say that a snake is one big neck."
"Well, Heidegger would say that there is a distinction between having and being."
Controversial Penguin
Third Party: When Controversial Penguin enters the battlefield, it gains flying if, according to your third party, it seems like it ought to be able to fly.
2/3
Sneaky Snake
Third Party: Sneaky Snake cannot be blocked as long as, according to your third party, it could successfully hide within one of the defending player's lands.
G: Regenerate Sneaky Snake.
2/1
The Wishful Thinking Cycle
Creatures that start off mediocre but could become awesome! So it's like kicker. Or monstrous. Or EMN werewolves. Or... well, no one says these things have to be completely original. The twist: All the added abilities live in the creature's flavor text, and can only be turned on by certain spells and abilities.
Bird or Angel
2/2
"Flying, first strike, lifelink."
--Gil, Wishful Thinker
Gil, Wishful Thinker
If the flavor text of a spell or permanent you control is also legal rules text, that flavor text counts as rules text.
2/2
"Aw, man! One more point of damage would've done it."
A few more cards:
Durdle Charm
Choose one --
"Draw three cards."
--Gil, Wishful Thinker
Big Blink
Exile target player, then return that player to the game.
(In the following order: Exile all permanents that player controls from the game, then return them to play. Counter all spells targeting that player or a permanent that player controls. Remove all cards in that player's hand, library, and graveyard from the game, then return those cards to their respective zones. Place all face-up exiled cards that player owns into their owner's graveyard.)
Third Party: If any rules questions arise that Wizards of the Coast hasn't addressed within this card's rules text, have your third party figure it out.
So: What do you think? What cards should be a part of this set?
Edit: Also your "charm" has too many modes. I know its an unset but I think it should still follow the "pick one from three" rule that charms follow.
Edit2: Maybe Gil would be more interesting if he just made all flavor text into rules text. Then you could just hide abilities in creatures flavor text. That way it becomes a little minigame to find out what cards gil actually affects and it allows him to affect cards from other sets.
Edit3: And give him third party to sort out any issues that might come up.
I looked through some lists of RGB legends to try and find some other useful babies. Didn't find any really epic legends in Red, other than maybe akroma and you can change baby akroma to the red version, then add a new baby white legend. But I did come up with these;
Baby Kokusho
BBB - Legendary Creature: Baby Dragon
Flying, whenever this creature dies, all opponents lose 2 life, and you gain life equal to the total life lost this way.
2/2
Baby Multani
GGG - Legendary Creature: Baby Maro
X is the average number of cards in all players hands rounded down (add up all the cards in all players hands, divide by the number of players, and round down). Shroud.
X/X
Damia, Jenara, Xiahou Dun, Mareth, Nekusar, Oloro, Kresh, Deretti
I think there is some potential development there, but as currently stated, yeah, seems weird, but then again, that is what Un- sets are for.
Damia, Jenara, Xiahou Dun, Mareth, Nekusar, Oloro, Kresh, Deretti
wish there were more people involved here... could be a great thread.
Damia, Jenara, Xiahou Dun, Mareth, Nekusar, Oloro, Kresh, Deretti
I'm trying to flesh out the very basics of the mechanics, but you're right that even the "vanilla" cards for a given ability need to be interesting. Hopefully, some of that interest could be done through art, but we don't have that luxury yet.
The point of Durdle Charm (as I had intended it) is that it does a lot of different "useless" things -- I was trying to find the smallest effects you could add to a card. Ideally it would have even more modes, and the average mode would be even weaker, letting players durdle even harder. The joke might not come across, though. More troublesome is that I can't just pull the same trick for every color -- not sure what the variations for WBRG would be.
Hypothesize (Wishful Thinking support card)
Choose one:
The awkward division between "creature" and "spell or creature" may require that only creatures gain Wishful Thinking. After all, taking away the "rules text" of a spell essentially means countering it (or would, for any reasonable definition of that ability).
Logarithmic Growth
Target creature gains +X/+X until end of turn, where X is the cube root of its collector number.
One of the fun parts of an Un set is using the entire card. I don't know if I'd want collector numbers to be a huge part of the set, but they haven't gotten much attention (if I recall correctly) from the other Un sets.
Odd or Even
Choose a card in your hand. Target opponent guesses whether that card's collector number is odd or even. You may reveal the card. If you do, and your opponent guessed wrong, draw three cards. Otherwise, draw a card.
The original version of this card cost 1U and was either "draw three" or "draw zero". But I feel like modern Limited tries to avoid anything quite that punishing, and I want to stay true to the way the game is designed now. Will probably need tweaks to cost and/or numbers.
Red Wedding
Red Wedding deals 2 damage to each of up to two target creatures or players. Put a legendary 1/1 Human Shaman Baby creature token into play named Baby Chandra Nalaar with "T: Baby Chandra Nalaar deals 1 damage to target creature or player".
Another fun aspect of Un set design is playing with flavor from the most recent Magic stories. I picture the art for this card being a passionate kiss between Mom and Dad Nalaar -- but the church is on fire. Could be made cheaper and without the baby token (since I'm not sure Baby Chandra was a canonical fire-user anyway).
Pushed Green Common (Third Party)
Third Party: When Pushed Green Common enters the battlefield, have your third party decide whether this card is fair. If they decide that it isn't, put a -1/-1 counter on it.
3/4
Not much to say here -- just more support for the set's basic themes. My hope is that Third Party plays out like Investigate or Cycling -- helping more games play out competitively, with fewer runaway massacres. (I'd guess that most third parties will make decisions that lead to close, exciting games -- especially since trying to screw someone over may result in payback later on in the tournament.)
Preventative Measures (Third Party)
Third Party: Target opponent reveals his or her hand. Choose a nonland card in it. Explain to your third party why you should be allowed to discard that card. If your third party agrees with you, the chosen opponent discards that card. Otherwise, that player discards a card at random.
"Honestly, Thought-Knot Seer was never a fair card. And wouldn't the irony be simply delicious?"
City of Stars
As City of Stars enters the battlefield, you may pay (2). If you do, City of Stars enters the battlefield with a premium counter on it.
T: Add (1) to your mana pool.
T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Use this ability only if there are one or more premium counters on City of Stars.
"Huh. I wouldn't have guessed that Sam Black plays Kobold tribal in Modern."
The nice thing about not being WOTC-affiliated is that we can reference other gaming companies! For another example, see:
Channel Fireball (edit: wrote out the text wrong, realized that when Vault pointed it out)
Cast Channel Fireball only if your life total is at or below 10.
As an additional cost to cast Channel Fireball, pay X life, where X is your life total minus 1.
Channel Fireball deals X damage to target creature or player.
The "at or below X" number can be adjusted, of course. This would be crazy overpowered if you could play it at 20, but it might go from "janky fun" to "respectable" without being overpowered if players could pay any amount of life instead.
Channel Fireball
RG - Sorcery
As an additional cost to cast Channel Fireball pay X life.
Third Party - Your third party decides whether you get to make X mana or deal X damage.
Something like that maybe?
I like all your third party design cards. It's probably the best mechanic we have so far. I'm indifferent to the baby creatures. Wishful Thinking still isn't grokkable. The whole "The flavor text has to be legal rules text" part adds a bunch of complexity for a set that is supposed to be all about jokes and it makes the cards completely useless outside of this specific set.
Collectors numbers mattering is a great idea but that whole cube root thing has got to go. Stopping in the middle of your game to determine a cube root is about as far from fun as you can get. Keep it simple, like so.
Counting Counter
UU - Instant
Counter target spell if it's converted mana cost is lower than all the numbers in it's collector number added together.
Down the Ramp
1G - Sorcery
Search your library for a land card whose collector number is lower than this cards collector number and put that land into play tapped. Shuffle your library.
Some kinda burn spell
2R - Instant
Target opponent reveals a card at random from his or her hand. Deal X damage to that opponent where X is the highest number in that cards collector number.
Those are a little loose but I think you get my drift.
Target
U - Instant
Target a target that is targeting another target. The target targeted by Target is countered. As long as you read this out loud and didn't mess up you may draw a card.
"There's our target"
Thoughts?
Common Pot: this ability allows player to use real money instead of mana or life (between 10 and 25cts.) All the money is put on a common pot in the middle of the table and some cards allow players to get all or part of the pot back. The winner collects the common pot at the end of the game. Many ideas with that:
Players can replace money with poker chips, for example, if they don't want to bid money ^^
We also created the "Serves you right" mechanic (I'm French, so the name might be a little bit strange), which activates whenever an opponent complains about something ; for instance:
I guess you get the idea
We also created some cards that play with time, like:
And some cards playing with voting too. Many of our cards contained french puns, so they won't be appropriated here, but if you want to see some other ideas or arts we found, tell me
I believe there are some legal issues involving bidding actual money. There are also some gameplay issues, like what if people don't have spare change on them. The same thing is true with the timer. Yeah most people have smart phones but if you don't already have a stop watch app you have to stop your game to download one? This just leads to slow gameplay. People should not be expected to bring a whole bunch of random stuff to games.
I do like the "serves you right" mechanic though. It's reminiscent of "Gotcha" and that played out really well.
cube root of 92 is somewhere between 4 and 5. so the card at the least would need to specify whether to round up or down, but the poster of the comment of cube root of 92 makes a valid point; I like it, but others may not be able to rough round cubes like a math nerd. Perhaps list out the first 7 cubes in flavor text, so people could see what it is between easily, and just have round up or round down ruling.
I like the idea of common pot, but that starts getting into ante (I love ante for signatures btw), and gambling, and unfortunately not something that is useful. Perhaps introduce a new resource to the game; everyone starts with 10-20 chips, and those can be used for the common pot mechanic. A limited resource that you could take, or give for benefits, and some effects require payment of, and if you can't pay some other option.
I am also a fan of the third party having the 2 options depending on the way it rules. The only issue is collusion, which although in casual not that relevant, can make people feel horrible, if for some reason the third party wants to be a jerk to them, and their opponent keeps picking the jerk as the third party.
Damia, Jenara, Xiahou Dun, Mareth, Nekusar, Oloro, Kresh, Deretti
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Xyx: I love "Tango Down". Thanks for the contribution!
Vault: Good thoughts on collector numbers. Something to keep in mind is that collector numbers go in order by color (WUBRG, I think, then colorless cards and lands). The set would have to be carefully balanced between "high numbers good" and "low numbers good" to keep color balance. And Down the Ramp would either be blank or be Super Sylvan Scrying depending on the high/low decision. I guess collector numbers for the set could be random -- that doesn't seem like it would be harmful, since I'd guess the numbers have mostly outlived their original purpose. Probably better to keep the flavor/history of having colors duke it out, though!
As for Logarithmic Growth: My hope is that every game will contain one player who has a calculator app on their phone -- those are generally easy to find, though I suppose many calculator apps might not be capable of cube roots. Having a solid theme of "digits matter" rather than "value of number matters" is probably best.
Listing out cubes in flavor text is also a fun idea -- or, better yet, listing them on a special card inside a pack (like a flip checklist). There could be all kinds of "special cards" in this set that would make casual players wonder what the heck their opponent could have.
Chesterspeed: Regarding "Common Pot": It's a really fun ability, especially if we take away the money. I love the idea of a communal "counter pool" that lets both players squabble over resources, decide whether they want the pot to be bigger or smaller, etc. If we want to preserve the flavor of "money", we could have the "chip counters" in the common pot be redeemable when players "withdraw" them.
For example (not an actual card):
Daretti's Dreidel
T: Spin Daretti's Dreidel on the table. If it makes at least two rotations and comes to a stop facing you, remove all Chip Counters from the communal pot and put a Chip token into play for each counter removed this way.
Chip
Sacrifice this artifact: You gain 2 life.
2, sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.
What was it like? Which cards/mechanics were cool and fun? Which cards/mechanics were weak or impractical? What can we learn from Wizards' attempts?
...or something totally different.
Vault: Not that Wishful Thinking needs to be saved, but here are some thoughts on improving it:
As for that last point: Un sets definitely need to do things that can't be done in black-border -- but I'd argue that this isn't what exclusively happens. S.N.O.T. is essentially Meld before Meld. Clambassadors, aside from the art, is a card that could be printed in any set today. Staying Power would be a reasonable Johnny card in any set. (Of course, without art, these mechanics might need to work harder than they would for other sets, so my excuses aren't perfect.)
But for the timer, I disagree with you, Vault256 :/ Having a timer isn't that complicated, espacially if you know you'll need one It's like having tons of dices, coins, or even paper and pens to write down things (I'm more likely to have a timer than a pen actually :p) And it can lead to funny effects, IMO, that match well with the un-atmosphere.
Aaron: Number 1 was basically my suggestion for what we should do with wishful thinking if we kept it. I know that green comes before lands in sets, but if this unset is a large set then this green card would have a higher collector number than lands from small sets but a lower collector number than lands from other large sets. This was done intentionally.
I still disagree with the timer thing. I never played unglued but I did play a lot of unhinged. The fun cards were those that did something you had never expected without ruining the flow of the game or be too obstructive. For instance no one ever wanted to play with Red-hot Hottie because screaming at the top of your lungs was disruptive. No one ever actually used their shoes as counters for Shoe Tree because most people don't like taking their shoes off and putting them on the table.
Ass whuppin, was a fun card because it let you mess with other peoples games but didn't actually disrupt game flow. Gotcha was a fun mechanic, the artist matters cards were interesting.
Here's a Third Party card someone created:
Parthenogenesis
Put a token onto the battlefield that’s a copy of a creature with at least one female in its art.
If you and at least one other player disagree whether there is a female in that creature’s art, exile that creature instead unless a third party agrees that there is at least one female in its art.
Clearly we have different ideas for what silver bordered is for then. The cards that could "work" in black bordered were my least favorite and stuff like "Gotcha" was great. The way I see it, silver bordered is for doing things you can't do in black bordered. If you could do this effect in black border but it's just a little weird than you're not doing silver bordered justice.
By the way, I thought of something quite important for the set, as I was watching some cards of the two previous ones: each one revolves around an animal ; Unhinged with the donkeys (and the horseshoe expansion symbol) and Unglued with the chickens (and the egg symbol.) A significant part a the sets played with that, with puns, "lords" and stuff.
What could the Unfinished Mascot could be? A cat (making puns with ***** might be funny, althought a bit coarse)? A duck? A pig?
I've never played in an Un- draft or Un- only environment, but I have played plenty of multiplayer FFA with Un- cards. Let me tell you, it's a blast.
I tend to run "real" decks with Un- cards for *****s and giggles, to make sure that craziness ensues!
My favorite Un- card is Goblin Bookie. I have a coin-flip fetish and this guy rocks. Was using him with Mana Screw, Krark's Thumb, Chance Encounter, and Quicksilver Elemental. Soooo much fun.
Also love Mirror Mirror. The deck tries to get it out ASAP, on the next turn activate Mirror then cast Doomsday followed by Kaervek's Spite.
Also fun, The Cheese Stands Alone with Jokulhaups and Lion's Eye Diamond FTW!
Had a Shahrazad deck using Time Machine to bring Serra Avengers into the subgames. People hate subgames for some reason, which makes me love them all the more.
Unglued was more about the jokes than the mechanics. Unhinged went the opposite direction and really worked out fun but odd mechanics. The real purpose of Un- sets, they are a place where Mark Rosewater can toy around with card mechanics that would otherwise scare the crap out of R&D. Many of the cards or mechanics have migrated to the black-bordered universe.
While I'm a huge fan and would love to see another Un- set, I really doubt we will. They are hugely divisive. Tournament grinders and Spikes really hate them, and many casuals are even unsure about them. Un- sets are immensely fun and inexpensive. You can actually acquire both complete sets on e-bay for @ $250(U.S.).
Actual conversation during a game:
Nathan: "I attack you with Cheatyface."
Me: "When did you play a Cheatyface?"
Nathan: "Pft, long enough ago to attack you."
Me: "Wait, where did you even get a Cheatyface?" (me knowing he hadn't bought any Unhinged)
Nathan: "I stole it from you!"
There's something funny about getting smacked by a Cheatyface that your friend has stolen from you. No better way to play it!
I love the idea of the Common Pot mechanic, have you considered Gold tokens, ala Gild, they're already a thing and have practical use. Think about it.
Just came here to post this:
Hatebear Hatebear
Creature -- Bear Soldier
First Strike
If an effect an opponent controls would increase the cost of a spell you cast, it instead decreases the cost of that spell by the same amount.
If an effect an opponent controls would stop you from casting a spell, you may cast that spell anyway.
2/2
(Art: A bear wearing armor is shaking hands with Griselbrand, as a Containment Priest nurses a black eye nearby.)
Alternate names: "Fairbear", "Bear of Love", "Meta-Hatebear".
* * * * *
Keep the card ideas coming! Especially if they involve some animal that could be thematic for the set. (Rabbits? Penguins?)
Slot Machine 3
artifact
Bet two gold tokens: roll 3d6, if you get two of a kind you win four gold tokens. If you get three of a kind you win the common pot.
Any player may activate this ability any time they could play a sorcery.
Also:
Winner Winner Chicken Dinner WUBGR
Enchantment
At any time a player controls 100 or more gold tokens that player wins the game. If two or more players control 100 or more gold tokens, the player with the most wins.
Also I vote for goldfish to be the set animal. Then the set symbol could be a fish bowl.