I was thinking of adding jar, but memory jar is restricted in vintage, so probably something we could only add 1 of anyway (no one has added any vintage only cards yet, despite sol ring being good). Also at 5 mana we could play reforge the soul. Magus is only 3 to cast so it can come down in an earlier turn without rituals and can even attack if needed. Jar is a better card, but usually because artifacts are better (goblin welder, tinker ect).
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
Adding two Reforge the soul as a way to actually refill your hand. All the other cards are card parity at best, with Reforge hopefully we can top back up to mindmoil all over again. I believe we're at the point we start making cuts now?
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
-4 Lightning Strike - It's not lightning bolt, get this inferior burn out of here.
-2 Flame Jab - One in the yard is enough, we don't need more than 2 total.
-1 Alhammarret's Archive - I added this early hoping it would warp the deck in some way, but it was just too cute.
-2 Haunted Fengraf - We need colored mana and this just doesn't do that.
-4 Mishra's Factory - I love factories, but I don't think this deck wants to attack much. These aren't necessary, and should probably be replaced with that cycling land that was here before.
I agree that Lightning Strike should go. It's just too weak of a card imo. I think cutting 2 Flame Jab is the right call, like Gumgod said we really only need 1 in the GY. I'm going to vote to keep Alhammarret's Archive, while it is risky the effect is just so explosive that I think it's worth risking that you might deck out with it. I'll vote to cut 1 Fengraf even though I added it because it does appear to be an effect that wont come up that often. I'm also going to vote against the 4 Mishra's factory because like Lightning Strike I just don't think it's very good, this deck is mana hungry so I highly doubt it will ever be becoming a creature. I'm voting to cut 2 lands leaving us with 22 because I think with the rituals and the deck filtering we wont have an issue actually finding the lands. I'm also going to vote to cut all the Magma Jets, we have better removal with Collective defiance and the scry effect is significantly weaker once the deck starts to "wheel" through it self.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
-1 Flame Jab: One removed. We only need one of the two, and we'll be wheeling through the deck to find it.
-3 Ruby Medallion: We don't have room for Medallions and rituals. The rituals cheat out the win-cons better and work wonders if we can Past in Flames while Mindmoil is out.
-2 Chandra Ablaze: Too much mana for the abilities here. Early game we'll want to rit into win-cons, late game we're better off spending mana to wheel.
-4 Collective Defiance: Tough call, but we need room. I don't see this as a strong enough late game contender compared to moil and our other wheels, and right now I'm leaning towards Magma Jet to keep the early drops clear rather than Defiance to combat their mid.
I'll vote to cut the Chandra's as well. They are much to slow in my opinion. I'll also vote against the collective defiance. I think it's a fine card but the deck list is very tight and while defiance can kind of do everything the deck wants to do, it can't do any of those things very well. I'm voting to keep the Ruby Medallions. In my opinion it is far stronger than any ritual in this deck. Once Mindmoil is in place and you are wheeling through your deck, a single medallion could effectively generate us 3-8 mana, coupled with the fact that it requires no mana investment on the turns where you want to make use of it makes it much better than any of our rituals in my opinion.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
I vote to keep the Magma Jet's. I think it is essential to have some early removal, as the combo isn't insta-win.
I vote to have one land less. Considering the scrying, looting that we have going on.
I vote to cut one Alhammarret's Archive, as we don't have the lifegain to take full advantage.
I vote against one Manamorphose, since you don't really want two copies of it in your opening hand.
I'll vote to cut one land. This deck has enough rituals that 22 should be fine. I've already voted on Mishra's Factory so I can't vote again but I'd like to Reiterate that I really don't think this deck needs manlands and it not making red might actually matter. I've also already voted to keep archive so I can't vote again but I don't think that us not having lifegain is relevant here. The fact is this card + Mindmoil is practically an autowin as it allows us to go through our entire deck pretty easily. I advise that we keep it. I'm going to vote to keep the manamorphose. This card is actually just perfect in this deck and I can't see any downside to having 2 in your opener. It cantrips on it's own and with a ruby medallion in play it actually makes us mana. I can't see any reason to cut it. We are nearly there. Just need people to vote in.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
I typed up a reason to cut Collective Defiance, but deleted it. The more I look at this list the more I'd rather just cut Magma Jet, and go "All in" on this strategy. with all of the looting and rituals, getting to a past in Flames to go crazy with wheels/windfalls seems really fun. Magma jet is a solid card, but it's not fun. I vote to cut 4 magma jet.
I'm going to last vote archive because we don't really have a life gain component and overdrawing cards won't really matter because well be mindmoiling like it's cool
Sorry, I messed up the numbering. I was GOING to cut it down to 61 cards by cutting the defiance (3rd vote) and changed my mind, but forgot that I had already edited the deck total.
Sorry, I messed up the numbering. I was GOING to cut it down to 61 cards by cutting the defiance (3rd vote) and changed my mind, but forgot that I had already edited the deck total.
We're at 64. I just recounted.
Did the recount just end all interest in the game??
I'm going to remove 4 Collective Defiance just to end it now (even though the deck probably needs 2-3 copies to have more interaction and card draw, since the rest of the deck is too many uninteractive rituals). It would take too long to vote through other options and people here have clearly lost interest in this topic.
I was thinking of adding jar, but memory jar is restricted in vintage, so probably something we could only add 1 of anyway (no one has added any vintage only cards yet, despite sol ring being good). Also at 5 mana we could play reforge the soul. Magus is only 3 to cast so it can come down in an earlier turn without rituals and can even attack if needed. Jar is a better card, but usually because artifacts are better (goblin welder, tinker ect).
3 Seething Song
4 Lightning Strike
4 Manamorphose
Sorceries (18):
2 Past in flames
4 Flame Jab
4 Faithless Looting
4 Collective Defiance
4 Rite of Flame
4 Psychosis Crawler
2 Magus of the Wheel
Enchantments (4):
4 Mindmoil
Artifacts (4):
1 Alhammarret's Archive
3 Ruby Medallion
2 Chandra Ablaze
Lands (24):
20 Mountain
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Seething Song
4 Lightning Strike
4 Manamorphose
Sorceries (18):
2 Past in flames
4 Flame Jab
4 Faithless Looting
4 Collective Defiance
4 Rite of Flame
4 Psychosis Crawler
2 Magus of the Wheel
Enchantments (4):
4 Mindmoil
Artifacts (4):
1 Alhammarret's Archive
3 Ruby Medallion
2 Chandra Ablaze
Lands (24):
16 Mountain
4 Haunted Fengraf
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Seething Song
4 Lightning Strike
4 Manamorphose
4 Magma Jet
Sorceries (18):
2 Reforge the Soul
2 Past in flames
4 Flame Jab
4 Faithless Looting
4 Collective Defiance
4 Rite of Flame
4 Psychosis Crawler
2 Magus of the Wheel
Enchantments (4):
4 Mindmoil
Artifacts (4):
1 Alhammarret's Archive
3 Ruby Medallion
Planeswalkers (2):
2 Chandra Ablaze
16 Mountain
4 Haunted Fengraf
4 Mishra's Factory
Here is how I'm voting:
3 Seething Song
4 Lightning Strike (2 @ -4)
4 Manamorphose
4 Magma Jet
Sorceries (18):
2 Reforge the Soul
2 Past in flames
4 Flame Jab (1 @ -1, 1 @ -2)
4 Faithless Looting
4 Collective Defiance
4 Rite of Flame
4 Psychosis Crawler
2 Magus of the Wheel
Enchantments (4):
4 Mindmoil
Artifacts (4):
1 Alhammarret's Archive (2 @ -1)
3 Ruby Medallion
Planeswalkers (2):
2 Chandra Ablaze
16 Mountain
4 Haunted Fengraf (1 @ -1, 1 @ -2)
4 Mishra's Factory (1 @ -4)
3 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Magma Jet (1 @ -4)
Sorceries (18):
2 Reforge the Soul
2 Past in flames
4 Flame Jab (1 @ -1, 2 @ -2)
4 Faithless Looting
4 Collective Defiance
4 Rite of Flame
4 Psychosis Crawler
2 Magus of the Wheel
Enchantments (4):
4 Mindmoil
Artifacts (4):
1 Alhammarret's Archive (1 @ -1)
3 Ruby Medallion
Planeswalkers (2):
2 Chandra Ablaze
16 Mountain
4 Haunted Fengraf (2 @ -1, 1 @ -2)
4 Mishra's Factory (2 @ -4)
Well if I could change strike to bolt I would. My mistake
combining the votes 2 @ -1 and 1 @ -2
3 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Magma Jet (1 @ -4)
Sorceries (18):
2 Reforge the Soul
2 Past in flames
4 Flame Jab (1 @ -1, 2 @ -2)
4 Faithless Looting
4 Collective Defiance
4 Rite of Flame
4 Psychosis Crawler
2 Magus of the Wheel
Enchantments (4):
4 Mindmoil
Artifacts (4):
1 Alhammarret's Archive (1 @ -1)
3 Ruby Medallion
Planeswalkers (2):
2 Chandra Ablaze
15 Mountain
4 Haunted Fengraf (2 @ -1, 1 @ -2)
4 Mishra's Factory (2 @ -4)
-3 Ruby Medallion: We don't have room for Medallions and rituals. The rituals cheat out the win-cons better and work wonders if we can Past in Flames while Mindmoil is out.
-2 Chandra Ablaze: Too much mana for the abilities here. Early game we'll want to rit into win-cons, late game we're better off spending mana to wheel.
-4 Collective Defiance: Tough call, but we need room. I don't see this as a strong enough late game contender compared to moil and our other wheels, and right now I'm leaning towards Magma Jet to keep the early drops clear rather than Defiance to combat their mid.
3 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Magma Jet (1 @ -4)
Sorceries (17):
2 Reforge the Soul
2 Past in flames
2 Flame Jab
4 Faithless Looting
4 Collective Defiance (1 @ -4)
4 Rite of Flame
4 Psychosis Crawler
2 Magus of the Wheel
Enchantments (4):
4 Mindmoil
Artifacts (4):
1 Alhammarret's Archive (1 @ -1)
3 Ruby Medallion (1 @ -3)
Planeswalkers (2):
2 Chandra Ablaze (2 @ -2)
16 Mountain
3 Haunted Fengraf (1 @ -1)
4 Mishra's Factory (2 @ -4)
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3 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Magma Jet (1 @ -4)
Sorceries (17):
2 Reforge the Soul
2 Past in flames
2 Flame Jab
4 Faithless Looting
4 Collective Defiance (2 @ -4)
4 Rite of Flame
4 Psychosis Crawler
2 Magus of the Wheel
Enchantments (4):
4 Mindmoil
Artifacts (4):
1 Alhammarret's Archive (1 @ -1)
3 Ruby Medallion
16 Mountain
3 Haunted Fengraf (1 @ -1)
4 Mishra's Factory (2 @ -4)
I vote to have one land less. Considering the scrying, looting that we have going on.
I vote to cut one Alhammarret's Archive, as we don't have the lifegain to take full advantage.
I vote against one Manamorphose, since you don't really want two copies of it in your opening hand.
3 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose (1 @ -1)
4 Magma Jet
Sorceries (17):
2 Reforge the Soul
2 Past in flames
2 Flame Jab
4 Faithless Looting
4 Collective Defiance (2 @ -4)
4 Rite of Flame
4 Psychosis Crawler
2 Magus of the Wheel
Enchantments (4):
4 Mindmoil
Artifacts (4):
1 Alhammarret's Archive (2 @ -1)
3 Ruby Medallion
16 Mountain
3 Haunted Fengraf (1 @ -1)
4 Mishra's Factory (2 @ -4)
Almost there.
These are the decks that I have constructed, and are ready to play:
01. Ankh Sligh to be exact.
3 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Magma Jet
Sorceries (17):
2 Reforge the Soul
2 Past in flames
2 Flame Jab
4 Faithless Looting
4 Collective Defiance (2 @ -4)
4 Rite of Flame
4 Psychosis Crawler
2 Magus of the Wheel
Enchantments (4):
4 Mindmoil
Artifacts (4):
1 Alhammarret's Archive (2 @ -1)
3 Ruby Medallion
15 Mountain
3 Haunted Fengraf (1 @ -1)
4 Mishra's Factory (2 @ -4)
3 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Magma Jet (1 @ -4)
Sorceries (18):
2 Reforge the Soul
2 Past in flames
2 Flame Jab
4 Faithless Looting
4 Collective Defiance (2 @ -4)
4 Rite of Flame
4 Psychosis Crawler
2 Magus of the Wheel
Enchantments (4):
4 Mindmoil
Artifacts (4):
1 Alhammarret's Archive (2 @ -1)
3 Ruby Medallion
15 Mountain
3 Haunted Fengraf (1 @ -1)
4 Mishra's Factory (2 @ -4)
3 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Magma Jet (1 @ -4)
Sorceries (18):
2 Reforge the Soul
2 Past in flames
2 Flame Jab
4 Faithless Looting
4 Collective Defiance (2 @ -4)
4 Rite of Flame
4 Psychosis Crawler
2 Magus of the Wheel
Enchantments (4):
4 Mindmoil
Artifacts (3):
3 Ruby Medallion
Lands (22)):
15 Mountain
3 Haunted Fengraf (1 @ -1)
4 Mishra's Factory (2 @ -4)
I'm going to last vote archive because we don't really have a life gain component and overdrawing cards won't really matter because well be mindmoiling like it's cool
So that's the ball game kids congrats!
3 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Magma Jet (1 @ -4)
Sorceries (18):
2 Reforge the Soul
2 Past in flames
2 Flame Jab
4 Faithless Looting
4 Collective Defiance (2 @ -4)
4 Rite of Flame
4 Psychosis Crawler
2 Magus of the Wheel
Enchantments (4):
4 Mindmoil
Artifacts (3):
3 Ruby Medallion
Lands (22)):
15 Mountain
3 Haunted Fengraf (1 @ -1)
4 Mishra's Factory (2 @ -4)
We're at 64. I just recounted.
Did the recount just end all interest in the game??
I'm going to remove 4 Collective Defiance just to end it now (even though the deck probably needs 2-3 copies to have more interaction and card draw, since the rest of the deck is too many uninteractive rituals). It would take too long to vote through other options and people here have clearly lost interest in this topic.
3 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Magma Jet (1 @ -4)
Sorceries (17):
2 Reforge the Soul
2 Past in flames
2 Flame Jab
4 Faithless Looting
4 Rite of Flame
4 Psychosis Crawler
2 Magus of the Wheel
Enchantments (4):
4 Mindmoil
Artifacts (3):
3 Ruby Medallion
Lands (22)):
15 Mountain
3 Haunted Fengraf (1 @ -1)
4 Mishra's Factory (2 @ -4)
1. RabidVacin
2. kamakazi339
3. GumgodMTG
4. VincentDuc
5. Vault756
6. BlackVise
Voted to cut cards:
8. Selvaxri
9. Vault756
10. GumgodMTG
11. kamakazi339
12. BlackVise
13. ThatRedwood
14. FTW1987
Sending PM now.