So I just had someone ragequit on me in a Legacy game on MTGO because I was running two copies of Crumble to Dust in a slow not-fit-for-Legacy jank deck and managed to hit his Simic Growth Chamber with one on T3.
He tried telling me that I belonged in the "Getting Serious" skill level instead of "Just for Fun", because running any land destruction automatically makes your deck not casual.
I personally found this absurd... what's next, counterspells are not casual? Discard isn't casual? Doing anything your opponent doesn't like isn't casual?
But he insisted that everybody knows that land destruction isn't allowed in casual, like it's some unspoken rule. What do you guys think?
LD is perfectly fine. Especially in a format such as legacy with such a high inherent powerlevel, just look at how many decks plays wasteland. "banning" land destruction basically supercharges rampdecks which imo is just as bad.
Sure, dedicated ld/stax-decks may not be fun to play against but that has nothing to do with if a deck is casual or not. Personally I consider casual decks to be decks that are not up there fighting with t1-decks but rather some janky contraption you've pieced together to try out.
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Unlike a creature, artifact or enchantment, land is much harder to replace and instantly sets you at a disadvantage. Unless you're running a Primeval Titan or something. However, I don't mind land destruction if it is a serious aspect of your deck. Jamming some in "just 'cause" always seems pointless to me, but it is an entirely viable strategy to field when playing Magic.
Path to Exile / Swords to Plowshares is the best spot removal in the game. Is it unfair? It only costs W to remove practically any creature threat you face. Should it be used exclusively outside of Casual play? I don't think so myself. The core of the Land Destruction debate is that it feels crappy. Yeah, that's it. You wipe out my monster? I can replace it. Exile my artifact? I can survive! My land?! You've taken away the very thing that lets me do those other plays! Argh!
And so on and so forth. I understand why it's hated in the Casual circle, but I don't agree that it's a non-Casual move. If it's legal it's viable. But that's just my two cents, not sure if your opponent would see it the same way though. Course, you're talking to a guy who regularly duels it out with a mate who runs a playset of Armageddon, so... /shrug.
There is no such thing as a singular "casual" format. I have played with people who think any kind of control is unfun, and whine when people play aggro decks (leaving everyone to play tribal or ramp decks).
Other groups play more effective decks but use cost limits, and other casual groups play cards banned in vintage. I think land destruction is fine as long as you aren't going "Stripmine, blight, sink hole, necropotence."
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Pauper: UB Wight Phantasm RB Burn UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
No Crumble to Dust? Come on, man, how else am I going to power up the Oblivion Sower I'll summon the next turn while I get rid of that damn manland that just won't die? D:
... I think land destruction is fine as long as you aren't going "Stripmine, blight, sink hole, necropotence."
Well, Plow Under was a very good deck on its time, there were few chances to win when you were locked in one mana for the whole game while Masticores and Blastoderms pounced at you.
I play mono black land destruction plus discard on legacy, because that's the deck that's given me the best results, I still haven't completed my Sinkhole playset, which I plan to couple with a Blight playset to have access to eight 2-mana land kill cards, enough to keep decks like affinity and most tribals locked out of the game for a good time.
It's my experience that you should feel things out a bit before going in that direction, or at least ask them first if you're unsure. If you pull that out on a complete stranger or any newish player, it may cause some unintended heartburn.
As with most 'cheap' things in Magic, it's not really cheap, it's just playing to win. It is sometimes hard to convince new players of this, but it is absolutely true. YMMV. Either you have this type of playgroup or you do not.
I also think there is a pretty huge difference between Stone Rain.dec and being a totaljerky. The other one that pushes the envelope is Limited Resources. In both cases, the offense is pursuing a strategy that prevents folks from actually playing a game of Magic. That's not a very fun game to play--you should expect a little bit of blowback.
Land destruction is just a control variant, and control strategies are fair game for casual in my book.
In this particular case, absolutely no debate that it is fine. Some lands are dangerous and versatile spot removal should be expected. Even so, some people will complain even if you just Slime or Blastmine on something like Coffers or Nyx.
No one should ever complain about my singleton and untutorable Blastminer. They should giggle that it is in my deck.
There are ways of making land destruction interesting. My deck is UR and it doesn't shut you down but it kills just enough land so that I draw a card every time you cast a spell using my Rhystic Study
He tried telling me that I belonged in the "Getting Serious" skill level instead of "Just for Fun", because running any land destruction automatically makes your deck not casual.
I personally found this absurd... what's next, counterspells are not casual? Discard isn't casual? Doing anything your opponent doesn't like isn't casual?
But he insisted that everybody knows that land destruction isn't allowed in casual, like it's some unspoken rule. What do you guys think?
Sure, dedicated ld/stax-decks may not be fun to play against but that has nothing to do with if a deck is casual or not. Personally I consider casual decks to be decks that are not up there fighting with t1-decks but rather some janky contraption you've pieced together to try out.
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
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Unlike a creature, artifact or enchantment, land is much harder to replace and instantly sets you at a disadvantage. Unless you're running a Primeval Titan or something. However, I don't mind land destruction if it is a serious aspect of your deck. Jamming some in "just 'cause" always seems pointless to me, but it is an entirely viable strategy to field when playing Magic.
Path to Exile / Swords to Plowshares is the best spot removal in the game. Is it unfair? It only costs W to remove practically any creature threat you face. Should it be used exclusively outside of Casual play? I don't think so myself. The core of the Land Destruction debate is that it feels crappy. Yeah, that's it. You wipe out my monster? I can replace it. Exile my artifact? I can survive! My land?! You've taken away the very thing that lets me do those other plays! Argh!
And so on and so forth. I understand why it's hated in the Casual circle, but I don't agree that it's a non-Casual move. If it's legal it's viable. But that's just my two cents, not sure if your opponent would see it the same way though. Course, you're talking to a guy who regularly duels it out with a mate who runs a playset of Armageddon, so... /shrug.
Other groups play more effective decks but use cost limits, and other casual groups play cards banned in vintage. I think land destruction is fine as long as you aren't going "Stripmine, blight, sink hole, necropotence."
UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
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Heh, I played a Legacy deck that had Phyrexian Arena, Dark Ritual, Hypnotic Specter, Blight and Hymn to Tourach, I felt so old-school playing that deck that time
Fan of Both old and new Slivers (But the new ones are still better anyway)
C Call of Emrakul - G vs R DD: Elves vs. Goblins - W vs B DD: Divine vs. Demonic - WUB Esper Artifice - RGW Aura Dancers
WUBRG Wrath of the Reaper King - WB Men of Faith - B Mercenaries - UB Phyrexian Assault 2.0 - WU Artifacts of Empires
BR Skeleton Warriors - RG Night of The Howlpack - B Bog Murderers - BR Eldrazi Assault - BGU Ulamog's Swarm
I play mono black land destruction plus discard on legacy, because that's the deck that's given me the best results, I still haven't completed my Sinkhole playset, which I plan to couple with a Blight playset to have access to eight 2-mana land kill cards, enough to keep decks like affinity and most tribals locked out of the game for a good time.
Fan of Both old and new Slivers (But the new ones are still better anyway)
C Call of Emrakul - G vs R DD: Elves vs. Goblins - W vs B DD: Divine vs. Demonic - WUB Esper Artifice - RGW Aura Dancers
WUBRG Wrath of the Reaper King - WB Men of Faith - B Mercenaries - UB Phyrexian Assault 2.0 - WU Artifacts of Empires
BR Skeleton Warriors - RG Night of The Howlpack - B Bog Murderers - BR Eldrazi Assault - BGU Ulamog's Swarm
The point is, you can't take it personally. Whiners are gonna whine no matter what unless they win..
As with most 'cheap' things in Magic, it's not really cheap, it's just playing to win. It is sometimes hard to convince new players of this, but it is absolutely true. YMMV. Either you have this type of playgroup or you do not.
I also think there is a pretty huge difference between Stone Rain.dec and being a total jerky. The other one that pushes the envelope is Limited Resources. In both cases, the offense is pursuing a strategy that prevents folks from actually playing a game of Magic. That's not a very fun game to play--you should expect a little bit of blowback.
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In this particular case, absolutely no debate that it is fine. Some lands are dangerous and versatile spot removal should be expected. Even so, some people will complain even if you just Slime or Blastmine on something like Coffers or Nyx.
No one should ever complain about my singleton and untutorable Blastminer. They should giggle that it is in my deck.
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That, or learning how to play against those decks.
Fan of Both old and new Slivers (But the new ones are still better anyway)
C Call of Emrakul - G vs R DD: Elves vs. Goblins - W vs B DD: Divine vs. Demonic - WUB Esper Artifice - RGW Aura Dancers
WUBRG Wrath of the Reaper King - WB Men of Faith - B Mercenaries - UB Phyrexian Assault 2.0 - WU Artifacts of Empires
BR Skeleton Warriors - RG Night of The Howlpack - B Bog Murderers - BR Eldrazi Assault - BGU Ulamog's Swarm
This makes me happy