"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
I want this deck to have ways to interact, so adding 2 Contagion Clasp. Proliferate seems strong in this deck, and the -1/-1 counter can actually be relevant.
We have enough counter tricks to negate the need for Suncrusher's second ability. I want to give that ability something to do too.
+2 Pyromancy so that we can bounce and toss the Suncrusher (mostly) at will. I say mostly, because it is looking like most of this deck will get cast fast, or be an alright random alternate (looking at Wanderer).
Adding two Tezzeret the Seeker. He can -3 for a Fist of Suns, and we've got several cards that benefit from his untapping ability. (I mention Fist specifically because we really are kind of relying on it at this point to cast our stuff -- we don't really have enough ramp without it to cast Suncrusher before, say, turn 7 or 8 or so.)
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
I like Tez alongside all the Prisms, Chambers, and Fists. I think we could free up room if we run some tutors. ET or Fabricate would allow us to run fewer Fists and Cannons. Maybe cut something else too. For now, my main concern is that we have no early defensive activity.
-4 Hardened Scales : We only have means of taking advantage of this effect late game since we're not running early critters that utilize it. I think we need the room for a couple playsets worth of 1-3 drop critters.
+4 Etched Champion : Drops earlier than anything else and can stand in front of early threats.
I'm going to last vote hardened scales for the aforementioned reasons. I don't believe we can fully utilize the effect and as stated we have no early game
We now have a bunch of tutor effects, I think this frees us up to reduce some cards.
-2 Lux Cannon: We can tutor for it when we have the Energy Chambers and Clasps available to make it quickly usuable.
-2 Fist of the Suns: We only need one on the field, but I like the notion of a back-up in the deck.
I'm not sure Mox Opal is the acceleration/fixing this deck needs... But I'll refrain from voting it out for now because I'm also not sure what would be better.
I hate how slow fabricate is as a tutor. I'd much rather tutor things directly into play (ie: transmute artifact, tezzeret ect) However I think that having this many tutors does make some things redundant, and I vote to cut out the extras of Lux Cannon since we can also just go find those now. I'm going to defend Mox Opal, because running artifact lands make it simple to turn it on.
Lux cannon is a fairly weak card in the first place. I agree on going down to one copy. Magistrate's Scepter is a better tutor target most of the time. Voting to drop 6 land because we have opals/prims/fist of suns, and I think this deck could use some more room for Tezzeret's gambit that I'm adding to draw into or poliferate prisms/suncrusher/lux cannon/magistrate's scepter/tezzeret the seeker/oracle/champion. Voting to cut pyromancy as its the one card that I don't understand why its in here. Maybe if we were running myr retrievers?
Oh and to defend the fabricate choice. The into play tutors don't put counter's on our modular creatures, Tezzeret can't go for high drops, and the only real competing tutor was enlightened or black tutors. Fabricate is better as a budget choice and maintains card advantage, and is legal in more formats.
Vote against Pyromancy -- we've a few expensive cards, but not really any recursive ones, so we can only use this once or twice. I'd rather just play Shrapnel Blast if we want damage.
Agree with the 1 vote against Fabricate. Think we should keep the rest, for Fist and Sunburst creatures.
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Vote to finish off Pyromancy: While I really like the notion of bounce/toss the 'crusher, this deck already has too many moving parts.
-1 Arcbound Wanderer: I agree with the above assessment. Does a neat trick in the late game, but is not good to see early on.
Vote out Tezzeret's Gambit - We're kind of a cross between combo and control, I think tutors are stronger here than general card draw.
I've tried Tezzeret's Gambit in similar decks and never been impressed with it. The card is a trap. I'd much rather run Thoughtcast or Thirst for knowledge for card draw. If proliferate is your thing, there are better ways. Final vote at -3 so removing it.
I agree with voting against the Gambit. However, I would like to note how awesome the proliferate is -- we have 30 cards that use counters of some kind, on a rough count. Is more proliferate, in some other form, worth it?
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"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
I agree with voting against the Gambit. However, I would like to note how awesome the proliferate is -- we have 30 cards that use counters of some kind, on a rough count. Is more proliferate, in some other form, worth it?
Inexorable Tide or Throne of Geth? At this point it might be hard to work in throne, we don't have a lot of artifacts that are good for trowing away. Either way, I'm not sure it's worth it. Contagion Engine is another big mana one, but we already have the clasp.
I know we're thinking of Tezzeret as a tutor, but keep in mind if he gains 1 counter (+1 or proliferate) he is a valid win condition... (-5 animate all the things)
I agree with voting against the Gambit. However, I would like to note how awesome the proliferate is -- we have 30 cards that use counters of some kind, on a rough count. Is more proliferate, in some other form, worth it?
Inexorable Tide or Throne of Geth? At this point it might be hard to work in throne, we don't have a lot of artifacts that are good for trowing away. Either way, I'm not sure it's worth it. Contagion Engine is another big mana one, but we already have the clasp.
I know we're thinking of Tezzeret as a tutor, but keep in mind if he gains 1 counter (+1 or proliferate) he is a valid win condition... (-5 animate all the things)
I don't like tide, throne, or engine in here. Tide is 5 cmc and doesn't do anything the turn it comes out. We don't have enought etb/ltb or recurring artifacts for throne, and contagion engine while amazing is insanely mana intensive. Maybe engine as a 1 of search target?
I don't like treating tezzeret as a tutor in this deck. Most of the artifacts we want to tutor for are way too expensive for him to get for us. Without real mana rocks hes just kinda mediocre. His realiztic search targets in here are:
While that package is good, not being able to search for any of our win conditions is pretty weak. Lux Cannon is especially awkward with tezzeret, as it is one of the artifacts that we most want to untap, but search for it kills him. I'd rather be running agent of bolas in here. His +1 digs through the deck insanely fast even through its not a tutor, and is reusable. He can selectively animate artifacts, avoiding board wipes, and his ultimate often straight up kills the opponent, or provides so much life that you have effectively won the game against aggro. On top of all that hes 1 mana cheaper. I'd like Tezzeret the Seeker better if we had more low cmc artifacts, for example if we were running a throne of geth engine with myr retrievers and/or ichor well springs.
I agree with voting against the Gambit. However, I would like to note how awesome the proliferate is -- we have 30 cards that use counters of some kind, on a rough count. Is more proliferate, in some other form, worth it?
Inexorable Tide or Throne of Geth? At this point it might be hard to work in throne, we don't have a lot of artifacts that are good for trowing away. Either way, I'm not sure it's worth it. Contagion Engine is another big mana one, but we already have the clasp.
I know we're thinking of Tezzeret as a tutor, but keep in mind if he gains 1 counter (+1 or proliferate) he is a valid win condition... (-5 animate all the things)
I don't like tide, throne, or engine in here. Tide is 5 cmc and doesn't do anything the turn it comes out. We don't have enought etb/ltb or recurring artifacts for throne, and contagion engine while amazing is insanely mana intensive. Maybe engine as a 1 of search target?
I don't like treating tezzeret as a tutor in this deck. Most of the artifacts we want to tutor for are way too expensive for him to get for us. Without real mana rocks hes just kinda mediocre. His realiztic search targets in here are:
While that package is good, not being able to search for any of our win conditions is pretty weak. Lux Cannon is especially awkward with tezzeret, as it is one of the artifacts that we most want to untap, but search for it kills him. I'd rather be running agent of bolas in here. His +1 digs through the deck insanely fast even through its not a tutor, and is reusable. He can selectively animate artifacts, avoiding board wipes, and his ultimate often straight up kills the opponent, or provides so much life that you have effectively won the game against aggro. On top of all that hes 1 mana cheaper. I'd like Tezzeret the Seeker better if we had more low cmc artifacts, for example if we were running a throne of geth engine with myr retrievers and/or ichor well springs.
I think mostly we want to either win the game with Tezz, or search out fist of Suns. There are not many instant speed board wipes that can deal with a board of 5/5 artifacts. Not being able to get Lux cannon right away doesn't bother me, I don't think it's the primary target for tezz. I'm just thinking of him as extra copies of Fist of suns with upside. I don't think any of the other proliferate engines are really necessary either.
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4 Suncrusher
Enchantments: 4
4 Hardened scales (1 @ -4)
Artifacts: 17
4 Fist of Suns
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
17 Vault of Whispers
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
would radiant flames or skyrider elf be worth?
My Decks:
All my Decks are budget
EDH:GRWHazezon TamarGRW, RKazuul, Tyrant of the CliffsR, BMikaeus, the UnhallowedB, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GRXenagos, God of RevelsGR, BGPharika, God of AfflictionBG
Standard:BMono Black Control(devotion)B- retired
Casual:UWHeroicUW, UGWall tribalUG, BPhylactery LichB
Modern:UBAbyssal PersecutorUB, WKnight TribalW
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
Enchantments: 4
4 Hardened scales (1 @ -4)
4 Fist of Suns
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
17 Vault of Whispers
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer
Enchantments: 4
4 Hardened scales (1 @ -4)
4 Fist of Suns
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
17 Vault of Whispers
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer
Enchantments: 4
4 Hardened scales (1 @ -4)
4 Fist of Suns
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
17 Vault of Whispers
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer
Enchantments: 4
4 Hardened scales (1 @ -4)
4 Fist of Suns
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
13 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
+2 Pyromancy so that we can bounce and toss the Suncrusher (mostly) at will. I say mostly, because it is looking like most of this deck will get cast fast, or be an alright random alternate (looking at Wanderer).
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer
Enchantments: 6
4 Hardened scales (1 @ -4)
2 Pyromancy
4 Fist of Suns
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
13 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
Moderator Help Desk
Sales Thread
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer
Enchantments: 6
4 Hardened scales (1 @ -4)
2 Pyromancy
4 Fist of Suns
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
3 Lux Cannon
13 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer
Enchantments: 6
4 Hardened scales (1 @ -4)
2 Pyromancy
4 Fist of Suns
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
3 Lux Cannon
1 Magistrate's Scepter
13 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer
Enchantments: 6
4 Hardened scales (1 @ -4)
2 Pyromancy
Artifacts: 23
4 Fist of Suns
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
3 Lux Cannon
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Lands: 24
13 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
-4 Hardened Scales : We only have means of taking advantage of this effect late game since we're not running early critters that utilize it. I think we need the room for a couple playsets worth of 1-3 drop critters.
+4 Etched Champion : Drops earlier than anything else and can stand in front of early threats.
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer
4 Etched Champion
Enchantments: 6
4 Hardened scales (2 @ -4)
2 Pyromancy
4 Fist of Suns
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
3 Lux Cannon
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Lands: 24
13 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
Moderator Help Desk
Sales Thread
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer
4 Etched Champion
Enchantments: 6
2 Pyromancy
Artifacts: 23
4 Fist of Suns
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
3 Lux Cannon
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Lands: 24
13 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer
4 Etched Champion
Enchantments: 6
2 Pyromancy
Artifacts: 23
4 Fist of Suns
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
3 Lux Cannon
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 4
4 Fabricate
Lands: 24
13 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
-2 Lux Cannon: We can tutor for it when we have the Energy Chambers and Clasps available to make it quickly usuable.
-2 Fist of the Suns: We only need one on the field, but I like the notion of a back-up in the deck.
I'm not sure Mox Opal is the acceleration/fixing this deck needs... But I'll refrain from voting it out for now because I'm also not sure what would be better.
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer
4 Etched Champion
Enchantments: 6
2 Pyromancy
Artifacts: 23
4 Fist of Suns (1 @ -2)
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
3 Lux Cannon (1 @ -2)
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 4
4 Fabricate
Lands: 24
13 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
Moderator Help Desk
Sales Thread
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer
4 Etched Champion
Enchantments: 6
2 Pyromancy
Artifacts: 25
4 Fist of Suns (2 @ -2)
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
3 Lux Cannon (2 @ -2)
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 4
4 Fabricate
Lands: 24
13 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer
4 Etched Champion
Enchantments: 6
2 Pyromancy (1 @ -2)
Artifacts: 25
4 Fist of Suns (2 @ -2)
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 7
4 Fabricate
3 Tezzeret's gambit
Lands: 24
13 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
Oh and to defend the fabricate choice. The into play tutors don't put counter's on our modular creatures, Tezzeret can't go for high drops, and the only real competing tutor was enlightened or black tutors. Fabricate is better as a budget choice and maintains card advantage, and is legal in more formats.
Agree with the 1 vote against Fabricate. Think we should keep the rest, for Fist and Sunburst creatures.
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer (1 @ -1)
4 Etched Champion
Enchantments: 6
2 Pyromancy (2 @ -2)
Artifacts: 25
4 Fist of Suns (2 @ -2)
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 7
4 Fabricate (2 @ -1)
3 Tezzeret's Gambit (1 @ -3)
Lands: 24
13 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
-1 Arcbound Wanderer: I agree with the above assessment. Does a neat trick in the late game, but is not good to see early on.
Vote out Tezzeret's Gambit - We're kind of a cross between combo and control, I think tutors are stronger here than general card draw.
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer (2 @ -1)
4 Etched Champion
Artifacts: 23
4 Fist of Suns (2 @ -2)
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 7
4 Fabricate (2 @ -1)
3 Tezzeret's Gambit (2 @ -3)
Lands: 24
13 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
Moderator Help Desk
Sales Thread
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer (2 @ -1)
4 Etched Champion
Artifacts: 23
4 Fist of Suns (2 @ -2)
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 4
4 Fabricate (2 @ -1)
Lands: 24
13 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Inexorable Tide or Throne of Geth? At this point it might be hard to work in throne, we don't have a lot of artifacts that are good for trowing away. Either way, I'm not sure it's worth it. Contagion Engine is another big mana one, but we already have the clasp.
I know we're thinking of Tezzeret as a tutor, but keep in mind if he gains 1 counter (+1 or proliferate) he is a valid win condition... (-5 animate all the things)
I don't like tide, throne, or engine in here. Tide is 5 cmc and doesn't do anything the turn it comes out. We don't have enought etb/ltb or recurring artifacts for throne, and contagion engine while amazing is insanely mana intensive. Maybe engine as a 1 of search target?
I don't like treating tezzeret as a tutor in this deck. Most of the artifacts we want to tutor for are way too expensive for him to get for us. Without real mana rocks hes just kinda mediocre. His realiztic search targets in here are:
While that package is good, not being able to search for any of our win conditions is pretty weak. Lux Cannon is especially awkward with tezzeret, as it is one of the artifacts that we most want to untap, but search for it kills him. I'd rather be running agent of bolas in here. His +1 digs through the deck insanely fast even through its not a tutor, and is reusable. He can selectively animate artifacts, avoiding board wipes, and his ultimate often straight up kills the opponent, or provides so much life that you have effectively won the game against aggro. On top of all that hes 1 mana cheaper. I'd like Tezzeret the Seeker better if we had more low cmc artifacts, for example if we were running a throne of geth engine with myr retrievers and/or ichor well springs.
I think mostly we want to either win the game with Tezz, or search out fist of Suns. There are not many instant speed board wipes that can deal with a board of 5/5 artifacts. Not being able to get Lux cannon right away doesn't bother me, I don't think it's the primary target for tezz. I'm just thinking of him as extra copies of Fist of suns with upside. I don't think any of the other proliferate engines are really necessary either.