I need a recommendation on a deck. I am used to mill but not U mana drops like Drowner Initiate, Thought Scour, Memory Sluice. I don't know if this will work as I think it will.
My favorite mill card is Mesmeric Orb, BY FAR.
that card can deplete libraries by itself.
place it in the battlefield and then just control...
bounce, counter and watch while your opponent mills himself to death.
when he's almost done, you cast a Brain Freeze (this is easily cast for 9 to 12 cards even if you don't even start trying to build around it), Archive Trap or something to finish him off before your orb finishes yourself... lol.
when he's almost done, you cast a Brain Freeze (this is easily cast for 9 to 12 cards even if you don't even start trying to build around it), Archive Trap or something to finish him off before your orb finishes yourself... lol.
Honestly, Vintage blue was SO, SO POWERFUL, with a lot of amazing tribal wizard stuff. Sad it wasn't reprinted or expanded to modern deck types.
----------
I've changed the cardlist to more control/mill and less creatures type.
No love for Sanity Grinding? It could fit very well with blue devotion creatures and bounce/control, so you don't necessarily need to lose in the combat phase. You could incorporate a lot of the cards in your above build, just having to cut some of the ones that only have a single U in the cost.
This isn't a straight mill deck. But Sanity Grinding, Hedron Crab and Jace each have enough mill power to carry their weight while you can use other card slots to play a controlling role and actually interact with the board and such. Then you can still win by mill without getting blown out by other stuff as easily.
A couple synergies:
-10 fetchlands trigger Hedron Crab and also thin your deck of lands, reducing probability of seeing lands in 10 cards flipped by Sanity Grinding
-Brainstorm can stack your top 2 cards, e.g. to put 2 heavy devotion cards from your hand on top before a Sanity Grinding
-with 100 U symbols in the deck, on average, Sanity Grinding should mill 16-ish cards, which is pretty good value for a single card
Just my opinions of course. I tried writing this before but I think o forgot to post it
I use deckstats to test hands. I'd say 21 lands is enough... Anyway, I need to try it out in games.
What do you think of this list?
Rulings question: does Evil Twin die when it taps to play it's ability? It says "target creature with the same name", it doesn't say both creatures or all creatures with the same name. Rulings on gatherer doesn't answer this question.
Evil twin would kill the other creature as a target as far as I know it wouldn't kill its self
And what about the whole deck? Not that you like it or not (matter of taste), but if it is going to do well?
---
Question about Circu, Dimir Lobotomist:
If I cast Memory Lapse while Circu is in play, what will resolve first? Circu's ability or Memory Lapse? Circu's rules say "when you play a spell", so I guess it triggers before the spell is CAST.
---
Learned about Cabal Interrogator. Nice combo with Remand.
1) Evil twin kills "target" creature with the same name, not "each creature" with the same name. Hopefully that answers your question. Maelstrom Pulse is an example of how they would template the wording if they wanted all to die. Of course, you may choose to target Evil Twin (and not the other creature) with the ability, killing only itself. But usually you wouldn't do that.
2) For Circu and Memory Lapse, it actually triggers AFTER the spell is cast (see Oracle wording... "play a card" doesn't mean anything anymore, they changed it to "cast"). But I think you're getting confused about what it means for a spell to be cast (vs resolving). Consider the stack.
a) Opponent casts spell
b) You cast Memory Lapse
c) Circu's first ability triggers
Since the stack resolves backwards, the first thing to resolve is Circu's ability. That means first the top card gets exiled. THEN Memory Lapse resolves next, putting the spell on top of the library (and not exiled by Circu).
Since the stack resolves backwards, the first thing to resolve is Circu's ability. That means first the top card gets exiled. THEN Memory Lapse resolves next, putting the spell on top of the library (and not exiled by Circu).
Thanks for your answer.
I guess the only way to pull off the Circu + Memory Lapse combo would be to cast ML, cast Circu after it, and cast some U mana spell to exile the card i MLapsed.
Since the stack resolves backwards, the first thing to resolve is Circu's ability. That means first the top card gets exiled. THEN Memory Lapse resolves next, putting the spell on top of the library (and not exiled by Circu).
Thanks for your answer.
I guess the only way to pull off the Circu + Memory Lapse combo would be to cast ML, cast Circu after it, and cast some U mana spell to exile the card i MLapsed.
You don't need to do that. You can cast Memory Lapse with Circu already out, then just cast another blue spell (e.g. Quicken) after. Circu will trigger twice, once exiling the card that was on top before, and a second time exiling the card put on top by Memory Lapse.
But if your goal is to get rid of the card permanently instead of have it go on top (which is sometimes a good tempo play to skip their draw step), then why not just use Counterspell or Mana Leak instead of trying to combo something with Circu?
But if your goal is to get rid of the card permanently instead of have it go on top (which is sometimes a good tempo play to skip their draw step), then why not just use Counterspell or Mana Leak instead of trying to combo something with Circu?
Circu bans the other cards with the same name. Since it's not commander, the chance of banning from play the cards in opponent's hand is pretty high.
Also, Counterspell leaves a card in the graveyard. It's okay most of the time, but what if I play against a reanimator deck? I will do my opponent a favor. Circu, on the other hand, bans it too.
I use circu in my Dimir deck (in my sig) and let me tell you if I get him on the field you literally will sit there and watch me play the game. My buddy I played with told me that my dimir deck "makes magic not fun"
I use circu in my Dimir deck (in my sig) and let me tell you if I get him on the field you literally will sit there and watch me play the game. My buddy I played with told me that my dimir deck "makes magic not fun"
If my calculations are right, this will do 52 cards mill using only 4 mana: 16 for MS, 8 for Circu, 12 for Grimoire Thieves and 16 for Conspire copies.
If you want to mill 52 cards with few mana using 4-of a single spell, why not just go Ghost Quarter + 4 Archive Trap to mill 52 for 0 mana....
I know about Ghost Quarter.
1) Chances of having at least 1 Ghost Quarter and 4 Archive traps in hand together is very low. Having 2, for example, is 26 cards to be milled. Not bad, but AT is free only if you are lucky to see your opponent searching. Otherwise, 5 mana is way too much for a blue deck and a spell that doesn't exactly do anything to benefit you.
2) People could simply not search for it, right? If I were an experienced player, I'd get suspicious about why is my opponent having Ghost Quarter and not Wasteland, for example. Mana-boosting others is bad for you, why would you do that?
Anyway, I am exploring the mill theme. I used to have GQ, Sanity Grindings, AT, Mind Sculpts and etc. I want to try creature-reliable combo as this one. One-turn-52-cards milled for 4 mana with about 1/3 of them exiled and 8 with built-in Nevermore is pretty impressive, in my opinion. If my opponent has 5-7 cards in his hand, it means his library is left with 1-3 cards.
1) The chances of having 1 Ghost Quarter and 4 Archive Trap is much much higher than the chances of having 1 Circu + 4 Grimoire Thief + 4 other creature + 4 Memory Sluice.... That's the comparison I was making.
2) If you're worried about them not searching with Ghost Quarter, you can force a search using Surgical Extraction instead, which also costs 0 mana. Or Extirpate, costing 1.
1)
2) If you're worried about them not searching with Ghost Quarter, you can force a search using Surgical Extraction instead, which also costs 0 mana. Or Extirpate, costing 1.
Both cards let me do the search, it doesn't force the opponent, which AT requires.
I need a recommendation on a deck. I am used to mill but not U mana drops like Drowner Initiate, Thought Scour, Memory Sluice. I don't know if this will work as I think it will.
The idea was to mill as fast as possible, but also have some protection from creatures with Oona, Queen Of The Fae spam and Erayo, Soratami Ascendant + Guile + Kira, Great Glass-Spinner for magic protection and control.
After playing mill decks for some time I figured that they lack creature defence - I got beaten up a lot by white knights deck.
Is it viable? Should I replace some cards?
6 Island
4 Underground sea
4 Halimar depths
4 Misty rainforest
2 Coral Atoll
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Riptide laboratory
1 Flooded strand
4 Hedron Crab
3 Drowner Initiate
2 Nightveil Specter
2 Glen Elendra Liege
1 Sigil Tracer
1 Guile
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
1 Oona, Queen Of The Fae
4 Brainstorm
3 Thought Scour
3 Dream Fracture
3 Deprive
3 Memory Sluice
2 Archive trap
2 Mindbreak trap
Thanks in advance.
If not
Tome Scour
Mind Sculpt
Keening Stone
No, not only, 1 mana drops are meant to flip Erayo, Soratami Ascendant.
After playing decks with a lot of Archive traps and Sanity Grindings I found out I rarely had mana to land creatures, and lost games in combat phases.
5 Island
4 Halimar depths
4 Misty rainforest
3 Underground sea
2 Coral Atoll
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Riptide laboratory
1 Reliquary tower
4 Hedron Crab
4 Drowner Initiate
2 Nightveil Specter
2 Glen Elendra Liege
1 Sigil Tracer
1 Guile
1 Circu, Dimir Lobotomist
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
1 Oona, Queen Of The Fae
4 Brainstorm
4 Thought Scour
4 Memory Sluice
3 Dream Fracture
3 Deprive
2 Mindbreak trap
1 Archive trap
that card can deplete libraries by itself.
place it in the battlefield and then just control...
bounce, counter and watch while your opponent mills himself to death.
when he's almost done, you cast a Brain Freeze (this is easily cast for 9 to 12 cards even if you don't even start trying to build around it), Archive Trap or something to finish him off before your orb finishes yourself... lol.
Wow, thanks for Brain Freeze, I will try it out.
Honestly, Vintage blue was SO, SO POWERFUL, with a lot of amazing tribal wizard stuff. Sad it wasn't reprinted or expanded to modern deck types.
----------
I've changed the cardlist to more control/mill and less creatures type.
Can anyone comment it?
6 Island
4 Halimar depths
4 Misty rainforest
3 Underground sea
2 Coral Atoll
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Riptide laboratory
1 Reliquary tower
4 Hedron Crab
3 Drowner Initiate
2 Grimoire Thief
2 Drowner of Secrets
1 Sigil Tracer
1 Circu, Dimir Lobotomist
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Oona, Queen Of The Fae
4 Brainstorm
3 Boomerang
3 Cryptic Command
3 Thought Scour
3 Memory Sluice
3 Dream Fracture
2 Brain Freeze
2 Mindbreak trap
Example
4 Brainstorm (U)
4 Boomerang (UU)
2 Twincast (UU)
4 Sanity Grinding (UUU)
4 Cryptic Command (UUU)
4 Hedron Crab (U)
4 Grimoire Thief (UU)
4 Plumeveil (UUU)
4 Dominus of Fealty (UUUUU)
2 Oona, Queen of The Fae (UUU)
2 Jace, Memory Adept (UU)
//Lands: 22
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Halimar Depths
8 Island
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
This isn't a straight mill deck. But Sanity Grinding, Hedron Crab and Jace each have enough mill power to carry their weight while you can use other card slots to play a controlling role and actually interact with the board and such. Then you can still win by mill without getting blown out by other stuff as easily.
A couple synergies:
-10 fetchlands trigger Hedron Crab and also thin your deck of lands, reducing probability of seeing lands in 10 cards flipped by Sanity Grinding
-Brainstorm can stack your top 2 cards, e.g. to put 2 heavy devotion cards from your hand on top before a Sanity Grinding
-with 100 U symbols in the deck, on average, Sanity Grinding should mill 16-ish cards, which is pretty good value for a single card
What do you think isn't necessary and needs to be dropped?
---
EDITED: Do you think 21 lands aren't enough? Most of the deck is 1-3 CMC.
Just my opinions of course. I tried writing this before but I think o forgot to post it
I use deckstats to test hands. I'd say 21 lands is enough... Anyway, I need to try it out in games.
What do you think of this list?
Rulings question: does Evil Twin die when it taps to play it's ability? It says "target creature with the same name", it doesn't say both creatures or all creatures with the same name. Rulings on gatherer doesn't answer this question.
4 Underground sea
4 Halimar depths
4 Misty rainforest
3 Desert
2 Island
2 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Reliquary tower
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
4 hedron crab
3 Grimoire Thief
2 Evil Twin
2 Circu, Dimir Lobotomist
2 Drowner of Secrets
1 Sigil Tracer
1 Jace, Memory Adept
4 Ponder
4 Cryptic Command
4 Thought Scour
4 Memory Lapse
3 Sanity Grinding
2 Remand
2 Mindbreak trap
And what about the whole deck? Not that you like it or not (matter of taste), but if it is going to do well?
---
Question about Circu, Dimir Lobotomist:
If I cast Memory Lapse while Circu is in play, what will resolve first? Circu's ability or Memory Lapse? Circu's rules say "when you play a spell", so I guess it triggers before the spell is CAST.
---
Learned about Cabal Interrogator. Nice combo with Remand.
6 Island
4 Underground sea
4 Halimar depths
4 Misty rainforest
4 Desert
2 Dimir Aqueduct
4 hedron crab
4 Grimoire Thief
2 Circu, Dimir Lobotomist
2 Drowner of Secrets
2 Cabal Interrogator
2 Jace, Memory Adept
4 Ponder
4 Cryptic Command
4 Remand
4 Memory Sluice
2 Glimpse the Unthinkable
2 Mindbreak trap
1) Evil twin kills "target" creature with the same name, not "each creature" with the same name. Hopefully that answers your question. Maelstrom Pulse is an example of how they would template the wording if they wanted all to die. Of course, you may choose to target Evil Twin (and not the other creature) with the ability, killing only itself. But usually you wouldn't do that.
2) For Circu and Memory Lapse, it actually triggers AFTER the spell is cast (see Oracle wording... "play a card" doesn't mean anything anymore, they changed it to "cast"). But I think you're getting confused about what it means for a spell to be cast (vs resolving). Consider the stack.
a) Opponent casts spell
b) You cast Memory Lapse
c) Circu's first ability triggers
Since the stack resolves backwards, the first thing to resolve is Circu's ability. That means first the top card gets exiled. THEN Memory Lapse resolves next, putting the spell on top of the library (and not exiled by Circu).
I guess the only way to pull off the Circu + Memory Lapse combo would be to cast ML, cast Circu after it, and cast some U mana spell to exile the card i MLapsed.
You don't need to do that. You can cast Memory Lapse with Circu already out, then just cast another blue spell (e.g. Quicken) after. Circu will trigger twice, once exiling the card that was on top before, and a second time exiling the card put on top by Memory Lapse.
But if your goal is to get rid of the card permanently instead of have it go on top (which is sometimes a good tempo play to skip their draw step), then why not just use Counterspell or Mana Leak instead of trying to combo something with Circu?
Also, Counterspell leaves a card in the graveyard. It's okay most of the time, but what if I play against a reanimator deck? I will do my opponent a favor. Circu, on the other hand, bans it too.
5 Island
4 Underground sea
4 Halimar depths
4 Misty rainforest
4 Desert
2 Dimir Aqueduct
4 hedron crab
4 Grimoire Thief
3 Circu, Dimir Lobotomist
2 Drowner of Secrets
1 Cabal Interrogator
Sorcery (23)
4 Ponder
4 Memory Sluice
4 Cryptic Command
4 Thought scour
2 Memory Lapse
2 Remand
2 Ravenous trap
1 Glimpse the Unthinkable
The combo I hope to pull off here is: 1) have Circu, 4 Grimoire Thief and 4 Hedron Crabs in play;
2) Cast 4 Memory Sluice with Conspire at once with tapping 4 Grimoire Thiefs for 2 of the copies.
If my calculations are right, this will do 52 cards mill using only 4 mana: 16 for MS, 8 for Circu, 12 for Grimoire Thieves and 16 for Conspire copies.
I will write if it works after I try it out.
Thanks for help everyone!
But anyway, good luck with your combo and have fun with your deck!!
1) Chances of having at least 1 Ghost Quarter and 4 Archive traps in hand together is very low. Having 2, for example, is 26 cards to be milled. Not bad, but AT is free only if you are lucky to see your opponent searching. Otherwise, 5 mana is way too much for a blue deck and a spell that doesn't exactly do anything to benefit you.
2) People could simply not search for it, right? If I were an experienced player, I'd get suspicious about why is my opponent having Ghost Quarter and not Wasteland, for example. Mana-boosting others is bad for you, why would you do that?
Anyway, I am exploring the mill theme. I used to have GQ, Sanity Grindings, AT, Mind Sculpts and etc. I want to try creature-reliable combo as this one. One-turn-52-cards milled for 4 mana with about 1/3 of them exiled and 8 with built-in Nevermore is pretty impressive, in my opinion. If my opponent has 5-7 cards in his hand, it means his library is left with 1-3 cards.
Thanks!
2) If you're worried about them not searching with Ghost Quarter, you can force a search using Surgical Extraction instead, which also costs 0 mana. Or Extirpate, costing 1.
I will try running 4 Ghost Quarters and 4 Path to Exile. Should be enough to play Archive Trap for free.