I have created a turn one winning deck, and I want to hear ideas about what deck would be better for winning on turn one.
It is on Deck Stats if you want to test it: http://deckstats.net/decks/21851/127369-the-best-mtg-deck/en
Casual Player
Here it is...
I debated about the full set of Mind's Desire main, but I think there isn't quite enough mana to consistently support 6 mana in an opening hand, particularly in hands without Academy or Lotus. I may be wrong though. If you can resolve the first Desire, the deck goes absolutely bonkers chaining Desires into basically playing the whole deck out and generating enough Storm to kill an entire kitchen table's worth of players at once. The question is consistently getting enough mana to cast that first Desire without harming the smoothness of the rest of the deck. I found I was getting some hands with uncastable Desire where the hand would have been playable if it was just a 3cc draw 7 instead. I think having Wheel of Fortune instead increases overall consistency, though that potential for crazy explosiveness is slightly lost.
I find turn one win decks to be cheap and not fun.... I just don't get why someone would wanna do that..... can someone explain this to me?
Partly for coolness factor. It's fun to play decks like this, ONCE, against people who aren't aware that this sort of thing exists in magic. Generally, playing it more than once for fun isn't fun, nor is it particularly wise
Second, its a straight up puzzle. These decks make for fun times, both optimizing and goldfishing to see how "perfect" the deck can be made.
That's why I build these decks, and I guess also to see how it plays against people who regularly build mtg decks, but with modern cards. They either quit or add to your playgroup, but on a forum such as this I like to find the very best of a possible turn one win deck for fun.
So if anyone has anymore suggestions for an ultimate turn one win deck you should definitely post about it.
I just see it as a math problem, trying to find the combination of cards to most optimally goldfish for lethal on turn 1. I'd never actually play this against people if I want any sort of interactive game. Eventually I'll probably write up a simple simulator in Java to find which configuration of cards has the highest turn 1 goldfish rate, as I'm curious.
Like many casual deck types and formats, the "fun" factor is highly subjective and individual. Some people like certain formats or deck archetypes more than others. I could just as easily go into a mono green Beast thread and say "why on earth would you just want to play dumb creatures and turn them sideways?", but diversity and different tastes are a good thing. Each to his/her own.
I would recommend not using 4x all those restricted cards. It's not even legal in vintage, everyone is going to just laugh and not bother playing you because you aren't even remotely following the rules of magic. You might as well make your deck 40 cards and completely throw out the 4-card-max rule too while you're at it, maybe put all four Jacks in there too so you can tinker for the euchre for good measure.
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Editing the moderated part of a post violates the forum rules. Strike-through removed. No warning since the text was left fully intact.
-ThatRedwood
Sorry guys, not sure how I thought this was appropriate when I wrote it.
I would recommend not using 4x all those restricted cards. It's not even legal in vintage, everyone is going to just laugh and not bother playing you because you aren't even remotely following the rules of magic. You might as well make your deck 40 cards and completely throw out the 4-card-max rule too while you're at it, maybe put all four Jacks in there too so you can tinker for the euchre for good measure.
This comment is rather hostile and unnecessary.
If you check the sub-forum, you will notice that this is "Casual", not "Vintage" or some other sanctioned format. Many casual formats have rules widely different from sanctioned formats (who is this "Emperor" character anyway? I don't see him mentioned in the Comp Rules). If you had bothered to read the above comments, you would know why we are discussing such decks and are not concerned about people laughing or not bothering playing.
I would recommend not using 4x all those restricted cards. It's not even legal in vintage, everyone is going to just laugh and not bother playing you because you aren't even remotely following the rules of magic. You might as well make your deck 40 cards and completely throw out the 4-card-max rule too while you're at it, maybe put all four Jacks in there too so you can tinker for the euchre for good measure.
This comment is rather hostile and unnecessary.
If you check the sub-forum, you will notice that this is "Casual", not "Vintage" or some other sanctioned format. Many casual formats have rules widely different from sanctioned formats (who is this "Emperor" character anyway? I don't see him mentioned in the Comp Rules). If you had bothered to read the above comments, you would know why we are discussing such decks and are not concerned about people laughing or not bothering playing.
Actually, section 809 of the comprehensive rules details the Emperor variant. In fact, the word "emperor" appears 48 times in the comprehensive rules.
It's important for *you* to note that most playgroups still adhere to portions of the rules. My friends, for example, even though we play "casual" kitchen table magic, observe the Vintage restrictions. We don't allow proxies or gold-border cards. (Silver boarder is fine in moderation.) We stick to the 4-of rule.
"Casual Magic" is a nebulous concept at best--look at the constant debates in EDH about the "spirit of the format" and "local playgroup social contracts". One person's definition of casual isn't necessarily the same as another person's.
I want anyone's opinions on how they would build a turn one win deck that is at least using a different strategy than Tinker.
Hmm, since the shell would probably run a lot of 0cc artifact mana, another cool win condition could be Auriok Salvagers. You just need a Black Lotus or LED to make infinite mana, then you can win off an X spell or recurring some artifact-based direct damage like Pyrite Spellbomb.
Too lazy to make a list atm, but with all the moxen / lotus / recal and such, oops all spells might work splendidly, or at least with a lot more consistency than normal oops all spells lists.
If we just wanted the most reliable, storm is definitely the way to go. It has the best 1st turn win ratio in Vintage, and it would get insanely reliable here. I wouldn't play it though. It's just not my kind of deck.
The most reliable Turn 1 deck I've ever seen was a "Type 0" where there isn't any card count restrictions:
This deck has well over a 90% 1st turn win rate when muligan'd and caned properly - the only stop to a win is if you draw 7 cards that aren't Wheel. Caning properly makes this less likely the longer it goes.
Although the deck doesn't directly apply here, since it's an even more broken format, but the concept itself has always intrigued me greatly. If we simply go no-restriction vintage, it might still be possible, even if not quite as reliable. Something like this, or perhaps going for a Molten Psyche variant is what I would do. I actually have a Vintage Cerebral Vortex/Psyche deck, so it would be a natural extension for me. A very strong hand in normal Vintage wins turn 1, so going all out would probably be very reliable. It only takes 2 "Draw 7s" and an Influence, which wouldn't be hard.
Yeah their are many possibilities it seems when you can use most of the cards. I have seen some effective turn one flash hulk decks, but I wouldn't build that type of deck. I like Pyrite Spellbomb, but I do not think it will win that often on turn one, but who knows I guess I would have to build it. FTW1987 yes you could code a simulator to determine the best turn one win decks like you were saying. That really does sound fun, and you would be learning more coding techniques in the process.
Feyd_Ruin your deck is Ok, and it wins a good number of times turn one. The drawing machine is the same, but you need it with Molten Psyche.
Ill take some of the advise, and play around with some ideas.
It is on Deck Stats if you want to test it: http://deckstats.net/decks/21851/127369-the-best-mtg-deck/en
Casual Player
Here it is...
4 Tolarian Academy
2 Volcanic Island
//Spells
4 Lotus Petal
4 Timetwister
4 Mox Opal
4 Mox Ruby
4 Mana Crypt
4 Ancestral Recall
4 Black Lotus
2 Lightning Greaves
4 Windfall
4 Mox Sapphire
4 Wheel of Fortune
2 Reckless Charge
4 Time Walk
4 Tinker
2 Blightsteel Colossus
I want anyone's opinions on how they would build a turn one win deck that is at least using a different strategy than Tinker.
4 Black Lotus
4 Mox Opal
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mana Crypt
4 Mox Jet
4 Tolarian Academy
4 Dark Ritual
3 Mox Sapphire
3 Mox Ruby
2 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Contract From Below
4 Ancestral Recall
4 Demonic Tutor
4 Burning Wish
3 Timetwister
3 Wheel of Fortune
//LOL: 2
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth's Will
//Wishboard: 15
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Timetwister
1 Mind's Desire
1 Void Snare
1 Shattering Spree
1 Vandalblast
1 Chain Lightning
1 Infest
4 Pact of Negation
I debated about the full set of Mind's Desire main, but I think there isn't quite enough mana to consistently support 6 mana in an opening hand, particularly in hands without Academy or Lotus. I may be wrong though. If you can resolve the first Desire, the deck goes absolutely bonkers chaining Desires into basically playing the whole deck out and generating enough Storm to kill an entire kitchen table's worth of players at once. The question is consistently getting enough mana to cast that first Desire without harming the smoothness of the rest of the deck. I found I was getting some hands with uncastable Desire where the hand would have been playable if it was just a 3cc draw 7 instead. I think having Wheel of Fortune instead increases overall consistency, though that potential for crazy explosiveness is slightly lost.
Partly for coolness factor. It's fun to play decks like this, ONCE, against people who aren't aware that this sort of thing exists in magic. Generally, playing it more than once for fun isn't fun, nor is it particularly wise
Second, its a straight up puzzle. These decks make for fun times, both optimizing and goldfishing to see how "perfect" the deck can be made.
So if anyone has anymore suggestions for an ultimate turn one win deck you should definitely post about it.
Casual
Like many casual deck types and formats, the "fun" factor is highly subjective and individual. Some people like certain formats or deck archetypes more than others. I could just as easily go into a mono green Beast thread and say "why on earth would you just want to play dumb creatures and turn them sideways?", but diversity and different tastes are a good thing. Each to his/her own.
Warning for Trolling.
Editing the moderated part of a post violates the forum rules. Strike-through removed. No warning since the text was left fully intact.
-ThatRedwood
Sorry guys, not sure how I thought this was appropriate when I wrote it.
Multiplayer: WBG Junk Rites -- G Lurking Predators Ramp -- WB Orzhov Exsanguinate -- WUB Esper Master Transmuter -- WU Azorius Tokens
This comment is rather hostile and unnecessary.
If you check the sub-forum, you will notice that this is "Casual", not "Vintage" or some other sanctioned format. Many casual formats have rules widely different from sanctioned formats (who is this "Emperor" character anyway? I don't see him mentioned in the Comp Rules). If you had bothered to read the above comments, you would know why we are discussing such decks and are not concerned about people laughing or not bothering playing.
Actually, section 809 of the comprehensive rules details the Emperor variant. In fact, the word "emperor" appears 48 times in the comprehensive rules.
It's important for *you* to note that most playgroups still adhere to portions of the rules. My friends, for example, even though we play "casual" kitchen table magic, observe the Vintage restrictions. We don't allow proxies or gold-border cards. (Silver boarder is fine in moderation.) We stick to the 4-of rule.
"Casual Magic" is a nebulous concept at best--look at the constant debates in EDH about the "spirit of the format" and "local playgroup social contracts". One person's definition of casual isn't necessarily the same as another person's.
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Hmm, since the shell would probably run a lot of 0cc artifact mana, another cool win condition could be Auriok Salvagers. You just need a Black Lotus or LED to make infinite mana, then you can win off an X spell or recurring some artifact-based direct damage like Pyrite Spellbomb.
You could probably make a T0 Hulk Flash variant too, using Gemstone Caverns or Leyline of Anticipation+artifact mana to cast Flash on "turn 0".
The most reliable Turn 1 deck I've ever seen was a "Type 0" where there isn't any card count restrictions:
6 Feldon's Cane
36 Wheel of Fortune
This deck has well over a 90% 1st turn win rate when muligan'd and caned properly - the only stop to a win is if you draw 7 cards that aren't Wheel. Caning properly makes this less likely the longer it goes.
Although the deck doesn't directly apply here, since it's an even more broken format, but the concept itself has always intrigued me greatly. If we simply go no-restriction vintage, it might still be possible, even if not quite as reliable. Something like this, or perhaps going for a Molten Psyche variant is what I would do. I actually have a Vintage Cerebral Vortex/Psyche deck, so it would be a natural extension for me. A very strong hand in normal Vintage wins turn 1, so going all out would probably be very reliable. It only takes 2 "Draw 7s" and an Influence, which wouldn't be hard.
4 Tolarian Academy
4 Black Lotus
4 Mox Ruby
4 Mox Sapphire
4 Mox Opal
4 Lotus Petal
4 Sol Ring
4 Mana Vault
4 Mana Crypt
4 Wheel of Fortune
4 Timetwister
4 Windfall
4 Time Spiral
4 Ancestral Recall
4 Molten Psyche
First draft, but I think that would be very reliable.
It's weird enough to be up my alley, so it'd be what I would play.
Edit:
Deckstats if you want to playtest
Initial few tries are all 1st Turners.
No longer staff here.
Multiplayer: WBG Junk Rites -- G Lurking Predators Ramp -- WB Orzhov Exsanguinate -- WUB Esper Master Transmuter -- WU Azorius Tokens
Feyd_Ruin your deck is Ok, and it wins a good number of times turn one. The drawing machine is the same, but you need it with Molten Psyche.
Ill take some of the advise, and play around with some ideas.
Casual