Adding one Stinkweed Imp. Having some more cards in our graveyard never hurt, so the dredge could potentially act as CA. So many cards that pull our heavy creature base from the graveyard should ensure it doesn't backfire too often, and as a singleton the issues should be even less prominent.
oh man.... i'm not sure if you've been involved in this or not before alex.harter, but generally we vote to remove cards once we're that high, so we can take the deck in the final direction before we hit the cap.
once we hit 75 cards, we have to enter the cutting phase. i think we've hit it too early and could have taken out some cards to put new ones in before entering the final cut stage, but I guess we can't stop it now unless we get a Mods ruling and your agreement to not add that last card.
I agree with Muzzy... we still could use some big finisher critters. everyone just seemed to jump onto the "ETB chain-game" train.
I still say we could have fun with some other sacrifice outlets, even Grave Pact for added quirkiness, but that's the Johnny player in me talking.
Life/Death and Down/Dirty could have made their way into the decks, among others.
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SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
The rules say to remove at fifteen above the max, I was just going off that... I agree that it should be removed, there are a lot more options on how to play with Bloodbond
I definitely think that the deck can manage to take out Wretch, since the deck is specifically built to abuse BBM, while other decks will probably only do it by "accident" or if they happen to play a dude that we play in our final 60s. But, let's face it, so far half of our critters are marginal creatures that usually don't see much play. That alone already takes out a huge part of BBM symetry.
So, according to rule 1.1.4, I hereby use my Host privilege and triple vote out Withered Wretch. Also, adjusted card count to reflect alex.harter backtracking on his last submission and updated the deck value, as the deck happened to be 20$ more expensive than what was written. Don't forget our 100$ budget
Arbor can't be cast. We have no GSZ or fetches. The only upside is that it can be ditched to Shaman, and that imo is not worth opening up to creature removal act as LD aigainst the deck. so away with them. vote to cut 4. Putting it at 3 @ -4. Cutting 4. Oh and we get back ~10 quid budget. Yay.
Vote to cut Myr Servitor. It's cute but the deck currently has no engine to use random 1/1 bodies on the table (if it was 'to hand' I'd think one could keep them for Shaman & March).
Voting to cut Sakura Tribe Elder. The deck currently has a very low curve save for the Treefolk at six, and has no abilities that profit from a large amount of mana available. However I acknowledge the potential benefit of thinning out land if you can recurr Elders a few times and that March on turn three might be usefull.
Voting to cut Viscera Seer. The deck might have fodder to sacrifice, and certainly stuff will die anyways so getting out scry effects out of these is ok, but the deck needs to make cuts and as a 1/1 I don't see this having enough of an impact on the board. It's also a rather tame creature for March, as its ability is self-redundant, and extra copies are at best jump blocks plus a scry effect.
Adding a single copy of Shriekmaw. And vote to add 3 more. It is targeted spot removal on a body. The body is 3 power with evasion, capable of winning games. Evoke is an alternate cost for casting, aka triggering March. Note that March's trigger resolves with the evoked creature still on the stack so you won't get that card. It is still usefull to evoke pre-March and with the 2nd maybe get two 3/2 beaters and two Terrors for five, or one (the one in your grave) 3/2 and two Terros for two. At 77c per card I think it's also quite budget friendly (magiccards.info mid price for the Commander printing).
SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
grim backwoods requires a creature to be on the ground and 4 other mana to just draw the top card of our library, where fauna shaman can, much earlier, and for cheaper FETCH the creature we want from anywhere in our library. it also puts a creature in the grave, but without having to cast one first. it combos the next play:
discard shriek maw with fs to search for shriekmaw, pay 2 more, play shriekmaw, kill a creature, bring the discarded shriekmaw onto the field and kill another creature and it stays a live. tutoring up exactly what we need>drawing top deck imo
dont get me wrong, i like grim backwoods but the situation it creates isn't as controllable or strong as the fauna shaman. maybe we don't need 4, but we certainly don't want them all gone.
So, people like building the deck but don't like to tweak it? and people think my abrasiveness is a detractor.
Voting out Cadaver Imp- we have Eternal Witness to get whatever we need back, and we have Deadwood Treefolk to get critters back doubly so. this guy, imo will be sitting around in our hand until we get combo pieces flowing.
Voting out Viscera Seer- apparently a decent sac'outlet isn't needed.
what the hell, I second the vote for three more Shriekmaw. we could use the evasion and control.
SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
eternal doesn't have flying, and it's possible to cast it just to attack and block and even grab a creature with an ETB, like the shriekmaw you've voted up the turn after its been used to use it again regardless of combo being up.
-i'm pretty sure i can't vote to keep the imp because I added it.
-i've already voted against myr servitors
-i added shaman, so can't vote on that now
-vote to keep viscera because i think we need a sac outlet, and other than blocking and fleshbag (though i dislike forcing myself to do this, where viscera leaves a choice)
-voting out fleshbag because shriekmaw is superior with evasion and doesn't force me to sac anything else
-voting out the sakura because the thinning only works for so long before it becomes very useless
-voting out all treefolk because they are expensive and sakura looks to be on the way out. i like the ability to bounce things to our hand and play them again for cheaper with witness and imp
- rats is awesome here
- voting out jarad's because fauna shaman does it earlier,cheaper and can be used multiple times to tutor creature responses
- voting for +3 shriekmaw due to evasion and evoke fitting well in this playstyle (up to 4 now)
Shriekmaw is 0.75 per card. Atleast those in stock at SP condition.
You said you wouldn't vote on Shaman, voted against Order because of it and yet added a vote to cut four. I assume that was done by mistake. so the deck currently is:
Vote to keep:
Sakura Tribe Elder : Eventual loss of function doesn't prevent this guy from being excellent ramp in the meantime.
Deadwood Treefolk : Late game this allows us so much value for attrition wars.
Vote to remove:
Cadaver Imp : I think the Treefolk gives us more value for this option.
haha yeah, i did make a mistake there.
and i prefer cheaper cards, rather than having dead cards in my hand for the early game until ramp is complete.
we also need to cut lots of cards, so voting to go the cheap cmc route with the imp keeps those 4 and not go the two card route with the elder and treefolk which is 8 cards.
i love both of those cards, but just don't feel like we can successfully fit them in when we have better uses from other cards at a faster pace, thats all.
ground breaker is cool, the cmc is restrictive sadly. and it may be hard to keep the deck under $100 to get lands that would make that card a t3 drop often.
I wasn't actually seeing much potential in it's t3 drop, rather t6-7 when you already have one or two in your graveyard, then you play another one and swing with a couple dangerous yet expendable creatures.
We could use the Deadwood Treefolk as fodder for the Shaman discard, this sets us up to return other creatures when we finally get one Treefolk on the field.
also, it's 6 toughness means we maybe able to defend against bigger metagame beatsticks that would otherwise mow through our weenies- and then it's death throes nets us a creature.
since it's already going to die due to it's own Vanishing/Fading, it's not something that we have to try to kill through combat or hope to sacrifice it though Fleshbag.
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SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
How do folk feel about a couple copies of something along the lines of Bramblecrush or Rootgrapple to handle problematic permanents? Witness chaining ought to recur them easily enough if we find multiple targets.
We could also use Acidic Slime for this. Less reach, but it works in the gears we're already running.
I've been saying the deck needs win-cons... I like the idea of Groundbreaker as a lategame all-in swing. if it weren't modern, Phyrexian Negator (not the broken Phyrexian Obliterator) would have been interesting.
Like I said, people seemed to rush into the ETB train of thought and that's what rushed us to a quick cutting phase.
How's this for a new rule?
If the OP/mod and three others agree, and vote to, the cutting stage can be revoked and more cards can be added.
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SELVAXRI! King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers "Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can." 375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev) Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
We're not in the cutting phase, if I understood things right. The guy (alex) who put the deck into cutting phase is new, was told what he just did unknowingly and revoked his addition.
Molten-Tail Masticore & Vampire Nighthawk might be worth thinking about. Once we cut some cards. Masticore's (89c for Chinese copies) provides a fat Body & direct damage, using a resource the deck should have plenty of, to end a game. The discard might be managable, with Witness, maybe Treefolk, maybe Imp, and certainly March, to bring back discarded cards. Tho I wouldn't be too keen on keeping one around for too long unless it is profitable, March can get. F.e. considering the deck looks like it will have STEs, it might get to 8, and if we can get back one with a second copy, the Opponent Needs to deal with both during one turn, lest he faces a potential 8 damage to the face (stack triggers, sac one, activate the other's damage ability twice, then you ould even ditch the second) on untap.
Hawk (Chinese also being cheaper :weird:) simply is an evasive quality body, that if recurred enough grind down out a lot of fair decks.
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Each reality is but the dream of another, and each sleeper a god unknowing.
We define the boundaries of reality; they don't define us.
What do you guys think of splinterfright as our finisher? He fills the grave on his own and can get pretty big doing so. Plus he has trample and we can recur the stuff he puts in the yard. Any thoughts?
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"De potentia juvenis somniabat, nunc de Mundo somniat..."
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NOTICE: WE NEED TO REMOVE CARDS! AT 74 now!
cost: $55.86
Enchantment 4
4 Bloodbond March
Sorcery 6
4 Commune with the gods
2 Jarad's Orders
Creature 40
4 Cadaver Imp
4 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 fauna shaman
4 Withered Wretch
4 Viscera Seer
4 myr servitor (1 @ -4)
4 eternal witness
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Deadwood Treefolk
20 lands
4 Dryad Arbor (2@-4)
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@thebluemuzzy
Deck: 75
cost: $56.35
Enchantment 4
4 Bloodbond March
Sorcery 6
4 Commune with the gods
2 Jarad's Orders
Creature 41
4 Cadaver Imp
4 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 fauna shaman
4 Withered Wretch
4 Viscera Seer
4 myr servitor (1 @ -4)
4 eternal witness
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Stinkweed Imp
20 lands
4 Dryad Arbor (2@-4)
once we hit 75 cards, we have to enter the cutting phase. i think we've hit it too early and could have taken out some cards to put new ones in before entering the final cut stage, but I guess we can't stop it now unless we get a Mods ruling and your agreement to not add that last card.
clan sig by me
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@thebluemuzzy
I still say we could have fun with some other sacrifice outlets, even Grave Pact for added quirkiness, but that's the Johnny player in me talking.
Life/Death and Down/Dirty could have made their way into the decks, among others.
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
So, according to rule 1.1.4, I hereby use my Host privilege and triple vote out Withered Wretch. Also, adjusted card count to reflect alex.harter backtracking on his last submission and updated the deck value, as the deck happened to be 20$ more expensive than what was written. Don't forget our 100$ budget
cost: $74.60
Enchantment 4
4 Bloodbond March
Sorcery 6
4 Commune with the gods
2 Jarad's Orders
Creature 36
4 Cadaver Imp
4 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 fauna shaman
0 Withered Wretch (removed by Host)
4 Viscera Seer
4 myr servitor (1 @ -4)
4 eternal witness
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Deadwood Treefolk
20 lands
4 Dryad Arbor (2@-4)
Deck cost (starcitygames)
4 Bloodbond March @ 0.75ea for 3.00$
4 Commune with the gods @ 0.25ea for 1.00$
2 Jarad's Orders @ 0.50ea for 1.00$
4 Cadaver Imp @ 0.15ea for 0.60$
4 Fleshbag Marauder @ 0.50ea for 2.00$
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder @ 1.50ea for 6.00$
4 fauna shaman @ 6.00ea for 24.00$
4 Viscera Seer @ 0.50ea for 2.00$
4 myr servitor @ 1.00ea for 4.00$
4 eternal witness @ 3.00ea for 12.00$
4 Ravenous Rats @ 0.25ea for 1.00$
4 Deadwood Treefolk @ 0.50ea for 2.00$
4 Dryad Arbor (2@-4) @ 4.00ea for 16.00$
20 lands @ 0$
Grand total so far = 74.60$
Vote to cut Myr Servitor. It's cute but the deck currently has no engine to use random 1/1 bodies on the table (if it was 'to hand' I'd think one could keep them for Shaman & March).
Voting to cut Sakura Tribe Elder. The deck currently has a very low curve save for the Treefolk at six, and has no abilities that profit from a large amount of mana available. However I acknowledge the potential benefit of thinning out land if you can recurr Elders a few times and that March on turn three might be usefull.
Voting to cut Viscera Seer. The deck might have fodder to sacrifice, and certainly stuff will die anyways so getting out scry effects out of these is ok, but the deck needs to make cuts and as a 1/1 I don't see this having enough of an impact on the board. It's also a rather tame creature for March, as its ability is self-redundant, and extra copies are at best jump blocks plus a scry effect.
Adding a single copy of Shriekmaw. And vote to add 3 more. It is targeted spot removal on a body. The body is 3 power with evasion, capable of winning games. Evoke is an alternate cost for casting, aka triggering March. Note that March's trigger resolves with the evoked creature still on the stack so you won't get that card. It is still usefull to evoke pre-March and with the 2nd maybe get two 3/2 beaters and two Terrors for five, or one (the one in your grave) 3/2 and two Terros for two. At 77c per card I think it's also quite budget friendly (magiccards.info mid price for the Commander printing).
4 Bloodbond March
Sorcery 6
4 Commune with the gods
2 Jarad's Orders
Creature 37
4 Cadaver Imp
4 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder (1 @ -4)
4 fauna shaman
4 Viscera Seer (1 @ -4)
4 myr servitor (2 @ -4)
4 eternal witness
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Shriekmaw (1 @ +3)
24 lands
Voting out the Fauna Shaman- with the Commune and Orders, we should have enough creature fetch to get us going. she's just a discard outlet...
Adding 2 Grim Backwoods for sac'outlet and a draw source so we can get some critters in our hand to cause the chain. (at $0.30 each, it's a deal)
4 Bloodbond March
Sorcery 6
4 Commune with the gods
2 Jarad's Orders
Creature 37
4 Cadaver Imp
4 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder (2 @ -4)
4 fauna shaman (1 @ -4)
4 Viscera Seer (1 @ -4)
4 myr servitor (2 @ -4)
4 eternal witness
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Shriekmaw (1 @ +3)
22 lands
2 Grim Backwoods
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
Deck cost (starcitygames)
4 Bloodbond March @ 0.75ea for 3.00$
4 Commune with the gods @ 0.25ea for 1.00$
2 Jarad's Orders @ 0.50ea for 1.00$
4 Cadaver Imp @ 0.15ea for 0.60$
4 Fleshbag Marauder @ 0.50ea for 2.00$
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder @ 1.50ea for 6.00$
4 fauna shaman @ 6.00ea for 24.00$
4 Viscera Seer @ 0.50ea for 2.00$
4 myr servitor @ 1.00ea for 4.00$
4 eternal witness @ 3.00ea for 12.00$
4 Ravenous Rats @ 0.25ea for 1.00$
4 Deadwood Treefolk @ 0.50ea for 2.00$
1 Shriekmaw @ 1.00ea for 1.00$
2 Grim Backwoods @ 0.50$ea for 1.00$
22 basic lands @ 0$
Grand total so far = 60.60$
grim backwoods requires a creature to be on the ground and 4 other mana to just draw the top card of our library, where fauna shaman can, much earlier, and for cheaper FETCH the creature we want from anywhere in our library. it also puts a creature in the grave, but without having to cast one first. it combos the next play:
discard shriek maw with fs to search for shriekmaw, pay 2 more, play shriekmaw, kill a creature, bring the discarded shriekmaw onto the field and kill another creature and it stays a live. tutoring up exactly what we need>drawing top deck imo
dont get me wrong, i like grim backwoods but the situation it creates isn't as controllable or strong as the fauna shaman. maybe we don't need 4, but we certainly don't want them all gone.
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@thebluemuzzy
Voting out Cadaver Imp- we have Eternal Witness to get whatever we need back, and we have Deadwood Treefolk to get critters back doubly so. this guy, imo will be sitting around in our hand until we get combo pieces flowing.
Voting out Viscera Seer- apparently a decent sac'outlet isn't needed.
what the hell, I second the vote for three more Shriekmaw. we could use the evasion and control.
Adding four Golgari Guildgate, because Overgrown Tomb, Woodland cemetery, and Twilight Mire would probably blow our budget- not to mention Bayou.
we could sub it for Llanowar Wastes...
4 Bloodbond March
Sorcery 6
4 Commune with the gods
2 Jarad's Orders
Creature 37
4 Cadaver Imp (1 @ -4)
4 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder (2 @ -4)
4 fauna shaman (1 @ -4)
4 Viscera Seer (2 @ -4)
4 myr servitor (2 @ -4)
4 eternal witness
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Shriekmaw (2 @ +3)
18 lands
4 Golgari Guildgate
2 Grim Backwoods
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
I would cast more votes to cut, but I already did. And as far as additions go, a tad uninspired, after seeing Blood Artist costs 10$ the set. *frown*
-i'm pretty sure i can't vote to keep the imp because I added it.
-i've already voted against myr servitors
-i added shaman, so can't vote on that now
-vote to keep viscera because i think we need a sac outlet, and other than blocking and fleshbag (though i dislike forcing myself to do this, where viscera leaves a choice)
-voting out fleshbag because shriekmaw is superior with evasion and doesn't force me to sac anything else
-voting out the sakura because the thinning only works for so long before it becomes very useless
-voting out all treefolk because they are expensive and sakura looks to be on the way out. i like the ability to bounce things to our hand and play them again for cheaper with witness and imp
- rats is awesome here
- voting out jarad's because fauna shaman does it earlier,cheaper and can be used multiple times to tutor creature responses
- voting for +3 shriekmaw due to evasion and evoke fitting well in this playstyle (up to 4 now)
4 Bloodbond March
Sorcery 6
4 Commune with the gods
2 Jarad's Orders (1 @ -2)
Creature 37
4 Cadaver Imp (1 @ -4)
4 Fleshbag Marauder (1 @ -4)
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder (2 @ -4)
4 fauna shaman (2 @ -4)
4 Viscera Seer (1 @ -4)
4 myr servitor (2 @ -4)
4 eternal witness
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Deadwood Treefolk (1 @ -4)
4 Shriekmaw
18 lands
4 Golgari Guildgate
2 Grim Backwoods
clan sig by me
twitch.tv/TheBlueMuzzy
@thebluemuzzy
You said you wouldn't vote on Shaman, voted against Order because of it and yet added a vote to cut four. I assume that was done by mistake. so the deck currently is:
4 Bloodbond March
Sorcery 6
4 Commune with the gods
2 Jarad's Orders (1 @ -2)
Creature 37
4 Cadaver Imp (1 @ -4)
4 Fleshbag Marauder (1 @ -4)
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder (2 @ -4)
4 fauna shaman (1 @ -4)
4 Viscera Seer (1 @ -4)
4 myr servitor (2 @ -4)
4 eternal witness
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Deadwood Treefolk (1 @ -4)
4 Shriekmaw
18 lands
4 Golgari Guildgate
2 Grim Backwoods
Sakura Tribe Elder : Eventual loss of function doesn't prevent this guy from being excellent ramp in the meantime.
Deadwood Treefolk : Late game this allows us so much value for attrition wars.
Vote to remove:
Cadaver Imp : I think the Treefolk gives us more value for this option.
4 Bloodbond March
Sorcery 6
4 Commune with the gods
2 Jarad's Orders (1 @ -2)
Creature 37
4 Cadaver Imp (2 @ -4)
4 Fleshbag Marauder (1 @ -4)
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder (1 @ -4)
4 fauna shaman (1 @ -4)
4 Viscera Seer (1 @ -4)
4 myr servitor (2 @ -4)
4 eternal witness
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Deadwood Treefolk
4 Shriekmaw
18 lands
4 Golgari Guildgate
2 Grim Backwoods
Moderator Help Desk
Sales Thread
and i prefer cheaper cards, rather than having dead cards in my hand for the early game until ramp is complete.
we also need to cut lots of cards, so voting to go the cheap cmc route with the imp keeps those 4 and not go the two card route with the elder and treefolk which is 8 cards.
i love both of those cards, but just don't feel like we can successfully fit them in when we have better uses from other cards at a faster pace, thats all.
ground breaker is cool, the cmc is restrictive sadly. and it may be hard to keep the deck under $100 to get lands that would make that card a t3 drop often.
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@thebluemuzzy
also, it's 6 toughness means we maybe able to defend against bigger metagame beatsticks that would otherwise mow through our weenies- and then it's death throes nets us a creature.
since it's already going to die due to it's own Vanishing/Fading, it's not something that we have to try to kill through combat or hope to sacrifice it though Fleshbag.
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
We could also use Acidic Slime for this. Less reach, but it works in the gears we're already running.
Moderator Help Desk
Sales Thread
Like I said, people seemed to rush into the ETB train of thought and that's what rushed us to a quick cutting phase.
How's this for a new rule?
If the OP/mod and three others agree, and vote to, the cutting stage can be revoked and more cards can be added.
King of Misfortune & Master of Rocket Launchers
"Do ya feel lucky? Because you'd better start runnin' while you still can."
375 Misfortune {+3 signed AP's} & 104 Rocket Launcher (41 AQ/ 63 Rev)
Edgar Rice Burroughs, forgotten legend of the word.
Molten-Tail Masticore & Vampire Nighthawk might be worth thinking about. Once we cut some cards. Masticore's (89c for Chinese copies) provides a fat Body & direct damage, using a resource the deck should have plenty of, to end a game. The discard might be managable, with Witness, maybe Treefolk, maybe Imp, and certainly March, to bring back discarded cards. Tho I wouldn't be too keen on keeping one around for too long unless it is profitable, March can get. F.e. considering the deck looks like it will have STEs, it might get to 8, and if we can get back one with a second copy, the Opponent Needs to deal with both during one turn, lest he faces a potential 8 damage to the face (stack triggers, sac one, activate the other's damage ability twice, then you ould even ditch the second) on untap.
Hawk (Chinese also being cheaper :weird:) simply is an evasive quality body, that if recurred enough grind down out a lot of fair decks.