I am sorry if this topic has already come up or that it is in the wrong section.
It is a subject quite close to my heart. (As you can see from my sig)
I would like to open a polite discussion about what 'casual players' are in hopes that it will form a clear culture on this forum.
I use the word "clear" because a lot of people seem to have a different idea of what a casual player is.
There is a large portion of people that consider a casual player a fool or a bad player.
There are other people that consider them less competitive, others that see certain products as designed solely for them and no one else, or casual players not being capable of playing tournaments because of that.
I would like to see a turn in the perspective to casual players being just "Less competitive".
Far too often I witness people berating forum members for defending a product/card because it's not the best version of it. I want this to stop.
I take exception to peoples comments about Duel Decks and Event Decks being for casuals as though casuals are fools. Sure, these products can be bad sometimes, but that doesn't mean a someone should judge the owner of such product as being a bad magic player.
So, your thoughts:
What is a casual player in magic?
What you would like it to mean?
What you think it currently means to other people, on this forum, in your town, or the world?
About products?
About you?
The future?
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Bad products are bad products. Bad products are not "designed" for casuals you meanie.
Casuals are players that play primarily for their own enjoyment and around the kitchen table. Casuals play in tournaments sure but they are less competitive than they could be by definition.
Some event decks and dual decks are designed for casual players. Some are a complete waste of money when the relevant singles could be had for much cheaper. Its for casuals in the sense that someone might want to go to a big box store and play it around the kitchen table and are not interested in ordering singles or construction etc.
i see this alot in the group i play with, the difference between casual and competitive. i see myself in the middle, i build a budget deck for standard and draft at my lgs, but i refuse to dish out the money to play standard or legacy. (there is a better chance i will for legacy though, i truly enjoy the format.) but there are kids in the group i play with that do wish to become grinders and some that are, but there are also those that only play edh. (almost pauper edh it almost hurts to play against them at times.) I feel that the "casual player" is ying to the competitive yang. without one the other wouldnt exist the game would collapse.
that being said... i know bad players, they also happen to be casual players, and when i call them a bad player i dont mean they make mistakes left and right, i mean that they dont know the rules, that is what makes a bad player, not knowing how to play the game by the rules. and the thing that really pissed me off was when i heard who told them that they could respond to a player activating a mana ability. it was a couple of competitive players that broke the rules to win a match, another example of a bad player.
i really do enjoy magic. i really do enjoy the products they put out. i am a casual player that doesnt wish to play on a competitive level and i am fine with that. and until wizards ****s out a product that is only (and i mean only) containing cards that can not be played in any constructed format i dont feel that people should be so hostile toward people that like a card, or a format, or a particular product.
**not entirely sure if that came across clearly, i hope it did. great subject poem**
So lets say someone plays tournaments competitively but generally plays casually with their friends because that same deck they're using for the PTQ got boring?
What about other formats like Commander which are generally casual but could be played competitively.
Why not competitively playing a Duel Deck?
To me, an event deck is a supplement to those wanting competitive cards.
Confirmed Thragtusk = everyone buys it. The rest of the Simic one is poose but that guy really needed a forth Thraggy for his Tourny deck.
Should purchase trends and or monies just be separated from the definition of casual?
So lets say someone plays tournaments competitively but generally plays casually with their friends because that same deck they're using for the PTQ got boring?
What about other formats like Commander which are generally casual but could be played competitively.
Why not competitively playing a Duel Deck?
i think that this is where the drive to play magic is the difference. competitive edh is exactly what competitive standard is, the desire to win at a game. you can try to win playing a duel deck(wont go well...), you can try to win playing one lost in the woods and 59 forests. and you can play a vintage deck casually, i did this past weekend (bomberman is a load of fun). and again, its all in why you play.
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So, your thoughts:
What is a casual player in magic?
What you would like it to mean?
What you think it currently means to other people, on this forum, in your town, or the world?
About products?
About you?
The future?
What is a casual player? I consider a casual player to be someone that doesn't take the game overly seriously. They don't play simply to win. I do not consider this a bad thing at all. I think you can be both casual and competitive. I consider myself a casual player, but when I play in a GP, limited event, or even FNM, I'm still doing my best to win. However, I also have a large collection of casual decks that I really enjoy playing. If I lose with a casual deck, no big deal, just hoping for a fun game, not a turn 3 combo death or some lame control lockdown. I also play EDH casually. If I want to win, I'll play my FNM's sealed or draft or league. I play EDH casually to use my old cards I've always wanted to use since I started in 94.
What you think it currently means to other people, on this forum, in your town, or the world? There's a lot of competitive players on MTGS. If you really care about the game and care about winning, getting more information is the smart thing to do. This site is a great way to do so. If you go in the sanctioned, competitive formats' forums, they're going to always rip on "casual" because they're playing to win. I'm fine with this. I'm not a huge fan of standard/legacy with the paper / rock /scissors metagaming myself. I prefer limited, I'm quite good at drafting and sealed. I am a SCG premium member and I watch all their drafts, plus I watch some pro play during the weekends for GPs or World Magic Cups. I take what I learn and apply it to when I play limited. However, I'm usually in the casual forums posting or improving other folks' decks, not worrying about pick #23. Don't take the label "casual" too personally. I'd be fine with someone referring to me as a casual player (or calling myself a casual player) and having them underestimate me in a game.
What you would like it to mean? When someone calls themselves a casual player, I think it's a good thing. I like to meet casual players. It actually means that they're probably a fun opponent to play, a good sport, and even a good person to trade with. Casual players are great to trade with. I collect sets and so I always need some awful rare that people are eager to get rid of. Whenever I meet other casual players, they can usually find something useful in my binder. Trading with ultra competitive standard folks usually goes like- Me: "Well I need that bulk rare Ogre Slumlord you have." Standard Player- "Sorry I just need Shocklands and Boros Reckoner." In competitive events, I like to have a good laugh about stuff with my opponent, even if I'm losing. During the Gatecrash prerelease, I had the unfortunate experience of playing an ultra competitive guy. He mistapped his mana for a spell and had already gone on to the next phase. He wanted to warp time to go back a phase to retap his mana and I said it wasn't allowed. He was mad, cursed at me calling me names, and he was already up 1 game, beating me thoroughly with extort/creatures (23 to 7 life or something with board presence). After he beat me soundly, I apologized for the "mana thing" and he said, "sorry, I overreacted." He eventually went on to win the whole prerelease, needless to say I wasn't clapping. Don't be that guy!
About products? I like casual products. Just because it's casual doesn't make it bad. I think the planechase stuff is casual, but very fun. Same thing with duel decks, theme decks, intro decks etc. I usually buy everything except the duel decks, and I'll probably get the sorin/tibalt one. I say keep the casual products coming. Avacyn Restored was my favorite set in the last year and it was hated by drafters but loved by casual players. I think this is fine. I had high hopes for Gatecrash, but I think it's actually the worst set of the (rotation) year. There aren't many cards to build whole fun decks around and it's just too aggressive in limited.
About you? I'm proud to call myself a casual player. I play Magic for fun. I also own a lot of cards from older sets (Fallen Empires to Urza's block). I think it's fun to combine the old classic cards with new stuff. Degenerate combos and control have never been my style. This doesn't mean I'm not a good player. I have two vintage decks that could wreck
just about anything and can win very fast, but I almost never use them. One is especially NOT fun featuring nasty discard. Mind twist for most of your hand on the play isn't exactly a good game of magic! I don't play others with these decks much. I'd rather use my fun decks like my crazy meekstone deck, my abyssal gatekeeper deck, or classic rabid wombat deck. I can turn on my competitive side to play sealed or draft, but I don't ever want to have a bad time because of bad beats. To play magic at FNM, league, or GPs/opens, I need to use up valuable free time. I don't want to have a bad time due to losing/bad luck. One example of this is I joined our recent Gatecrash league at my LGS. I'd played in two other leagues and did fairly well and everyone there is really cool. Sadly, my sealed pool was just awful. I got a really crazy distribution of cards that was very evenly spread over all 5 guilds/colors. The bad part is I had almost no creatures! No matter which way you built it, I had 13 creatures max in any THREE color combos! Needless to say, in the aggressive format of GTC, I got my butt kicked! The next week, I opened my pack, got nothing again. I went home annoyed and dejected after getting stomped with an awful deck. The next sunday, I dropped from the league because I realized I wasn't having fun. Morale of the story- If you're not having fun, take a break, don't play mad.
The Future? Wotc is going to keep releasing casual cards/ products because casual products are their core audience. They are also going to keep releasing overly powerful standard cards that see play in tourneys. It's their goal to make casual, standard, edh, drafters, modern, and legacy players happy. It doesn't always happen and it's not going to happen every set. Any way you slice it, casual players will always have the most fun, least tilt
Magic is a much more fun game once you realize that you're probably not going to make the pro tour. And even if you did, what type of life would that be? Just look at the pros complaining now. Flying from city to city, sitting in a huge convention center every weekend with folding tables and 10 hour+ days. Then having your "job" rely on the luck of the draw/manascrew/matchup pairings. Doesn't seem very glamorous to me! Forget about standard and trade for their stuff for cheap when it's about to rotate out. I'm looking forward to trading/buying some cheap Thundermaw Hellkites, miracle cards etc. this summer! Long live casual!
What is a casual player in magic?
What you would like it to mean?
What you think it currently means to other people, on this forum, in your town, or the world?
About products?
About you?
The future?
What is a casual palyer in Magic? For me, a casual player is one that isn't going to go all out and be obsessed with the best cards or even be in the grand scheme of things we call, "Pro". I personally think that casual players exist to maintain as another person said, "Balance" in MTG.
What you would like it to mean? For me, I have no opinion on what I want it to be. "Let a Spade be a Spade" is what I am taught.
What you think it currently means to other people, on this forum, in your town, or the world? Casual players get mixed feelings from many people around the world. It's nice to make social networking when you find them, yet at the same time, a face-to-face meeting brings out a players ambitions, hopes, dreams, secrets, and many things you wouldn't get on a forum or even playing on Trice, MWS, or even MGTO. For the world, MTG is one way to create or in some cases, break bonds with one another.
About products? With more "Out of the Box" casual players abound, the future of MTG isn't in question. The question is, "How long will it take for them to go into the limelight?" For some like myself, I get the product as a way to better enhance my position as a deck maker and tester. Nothing more. Others use casual gaming to gauge themselves against their peers before moving on to bigger and better things. But in light of all this, the product will always be in flux because the casual crowd and the trends they carry.
About you? The future? For me, I'm a Semi-Casual player. I will throw down when I wish to, but never forget my roots and will ease up when playing amongst my peers who aren't into the competitive scene. For me, I believe by going to prereleases, testing decks out, going all out, and making every deck to "YOUR" design, you can become greater, even if you don't wish to be competitive. At the end of the day, every deck I make has a story to tell about my life. Every card is delibrate, every move is a constant reminder of how I felt when I created that deck, every victory and defeat, a lesson that I take with me and create more memories from. At the end, my future TBBH, is one that I can play Magic, enjoy the thrill of the game and at the end of the day, convince others to join my passion.
That is but a hopeful future that has a slight chance of reality. For now, I'll gladly accpet my role in this game and play and create to my hearts content.
I feel that there is some disconnect between casual and competitive. People on either side play the same game but sometimes can't imagine the reasons why the other would do so.
I've seen plenty of competitive players mock casual players saying that they're "wasting their cards" because they'll never use them to accomplish anything more than beating their friends at a kitchen table match.
I've also seen many casuals sit atop their high horse and scoff at competitive players for their inability to enjoy a game. Using the word spike in a derogatory manner to refer to someone who just wants to win like its a bad thing. Also this is usually accompanied by an attack on how that player "just netdecks" and "can't see the creativity (and therefore can't fully enjoy) of the game."
There are similarities though. I've encountered numerous "rage quit" episodes from both sides of the spectrum. As well as players on either side making atrocious plays and writing them off as their opponents "getting lucky."
All in all I feel that these are the outliers in the population. I'd like to think that most magic players can straddle the line between casual and competitive. At least the majority of the ones I know in real life can.
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So, your thoughts:
What is a casual player in magic?
What you would like it to mean?
What you think it currently means to other people, on this forum, in your town, or the world?
About products?
About you?
The future?
Everyone will have a different answer. I go to FNMs, I'm there to win, I've started an ebay business buying & selling cards, and I'm constantly thinking about decks and how to make them better, but still consider myself "casual."
Why? Because I really only go to a handful of FNM's a month, and while I'm interested in eventually going to some larger events, it'd be for the experience, not really expecting to win. I don't know the ins and outs of all the rules, and I know I make a lot of play mistakes. My sideboard skills are pretty sub-par. I'm not in a rush to get playsets of every good card in standard (I'm looking at you, boros reckoner!)
To me, a "competitive" mtg player:
- Would make a significant effort to learn the rules in greater detail (i.e. become at least a level 1 judge)
- Would go to way more events, and bigger ones, and probably play online in order to get more competition experience.
- Would actively seek out other competitive people as a playgroup/testgroup
- Would focus on building decks most likely to win, rather than the decks that are the most enjoyable to play.
- Would pick a couple of decks and stick with them to learn them initimately rather than bouncing around.
- Would have to be way more interested in standard and limited rather than legacy and modern.
- Would never let price get in the way of having a better deck.
Not sure if OP will get objective responses in here.
(:hi: RMSO)
@OP: some of the best deck builders and players I know are casual players. Not having the time and/or motivation to participate in DCI sanctioned tournaments doesn't make someone a bad player.
It is a typical misinterpretation of what a casual player is, fueled by a non-small amount of players who have never gone anywhere near a rulebook, or have no idea how to build a deck other than "put all the red cards you pull out from packs together in a big pile and draw from it".
The best way for me to approach this I think is to provide my deffinition of all parties involved: The casual player, the bad player, and the competitive player.
I am a casual player. I hold fun, and courtesy above winning. It does not mean I like to lose, or that I am a BAD player I just have different reasons for playing this COLLECTABLE CARD GAME, because in the end thats all that it is. To me the moment you lose sight of that fact is when you cease to be a casual player of any game. Although there is a different category of casual players as well, the ones who are too apathetic to master the game, and learn the rules. I think this is where alot of the Casual Players = Bad players stereotypes comes from.
Now bad players, these are interesting, a few posts up some one made a comment about a bad player as some one who is ignorant of the rules, and lacking in mastery of the game, its true that this can be applied as a very superficial description of a bad player, but for me the definition of a bad player has much more to do with character than skill. Bad players to me are the jerks of our society, the low self esteemed individuals whose fragile egos fiend on the rush of victory, whether it was a victory earned or swindled does not matter as long as for a moment in time they can validate their existence, and drag you into their miserable reality. These I avoid at all costs, because there is nothing to gain from any kind of interaction with them, even if I win the game the victory still feels empty, and I'm usually left in a very negative mindset, and the pressure to win is usually very contagious and unwelcomed for me.
Now for the competitive player, a true competitive player to me isn't just looking for a win, they are looking for a challenge, they thrive on the pressure of gaming making decisions, and well earned victories against able opponents. These are the samurai of Magic. I respect the competitive player as there is always something I can learn from them rule wise, or meta wise. These are the bread and butter of the MTG subculture I think, because they know their stuff and are usually willing to impart their knowledge on those who are willing to learn. Creating better players, means a creating a challenge for them one day, all while extending the reach of MTG upon the known universe.
Well those are my thoughts, it took me quite a bit longer to articulate these three paragraphs than I anticipated so I'm gonna go hang out with my friends and play some Magic instead of pondering on the rest of the thinking points for this thread. Have fun, and play well friends.
I've often noticed "casual" being used to imply a player is of less skill, or doesn't want to spend as much money on cards, or is playing merely for the social aspect of the game. I'm not a huge fan of those connotations, because as others have mentioned, there are tons of casual players who own tier 1 legacy/vintage decks, or who are incredibly skilled players.
I think that a "casual player" is merely someone who primarily plays casual magic, where casual refers to the "format" that has no official rules or b&r list.
I think by using such an intentionally loose definition, it's easy to come up with something that applies to all casual players regardless of skill, budget, or motivation, and most importantly doesn't make or encourage any other assumptions about what kind of player that person might be. I know that probably sounds like i'm stating the obvious, but to a lot of people, "casual" doesn't mean what it should.
There's not really a clean categorical division between casual and whatever else you pit against it like competitive. As has been mentioned, some people play competitively but stay entirely inside of one archetype because they prefer it; they might not win PTs, but they do moderately okay because they have more experience with their archetype etc. etc. (People around this forum that come to mind would be Rjl, who is always trying to assemble the best UB/UW draw-go type deck in standard he can; serenechaos takes cheer1os variants to competitive events all the time; etc.) Some people don't want to spend the money or commit the time to competitive play such as at GPs or PTQs, but they do enjoy playing at FNMs, which can be semi-competitive depending on LGS; they assemble a deck they like on the budget they set. Other people play with their friends in a "kitchen table" play group, and even within that section groups can differ on whether to set a card pool like modern or what level of spending is socially acceptable.
I don't think "fun" or "motive to win" are good ways to delineate casual from everything else; everybody plays the game to have fun, but people have different motives and sometimes have them at the same time. I play a casual version of RG Tron with my friends because I might win (spike!), assembling tron while keeping back the weenies with Pyroclasm is tricksy and clever (johnny!), I get out huge creatures (timmy!), and I do cheapeldrazicards as my only creatures so that I've got a bit of a vorthos streak keeping it flavorful.
Even within all this, different people will play differently at different times. One guy might play more "casually" with his friends at the kitchen table where they all get off on Johnny and Timmy kicks while he also brews tier 1 decks to take to events.
You can see this level of variability just here in the casual subforum. Most deck help threads include an explanation of the player's card pool, budget, and meta even if it's largely just implied by the cards in an initial list (e.g., if it's all Zen+ cheap cards we would infer one thing while if there are Demonic Pacts and Necropotences we would infer another thing).
I would say that the best way to handle "casual" as a label is to think carefully about the context. For example, it might be "casual" to play budget standard, but here on MTGS we have a dedicated subforum for that and another one for casual that doesn't easily fit. If somebody at your first PTQ asks you what all you play and you typically do FNMs, you might answer with FNMs even though FNM is casual in relation to PTQ play. If you took the best deck you could to a PTQ and you play a guy with UB control because he likes UB control, he's being a bit casual, but that's fine.
What people really have to understand is that just because somebody's more casual than you it doesn't make you better than them. It really is just a game, maybe some people take it too seriously, playing to win is okay though, etc etc.
Casual players range from bad to great players. Casual players play what they want.
I've got some 1v1 decks that have good match-ups against parts of the Legacy meta, because Casual play includes Legacy, Modern, Standard, and past Standard decks.
More often though, I build with multiplayer in mind rather than build two zombie decks. So my current zombie deck will be a bit slow against most tourney decks, but can do fine against rogue decks or be ready for multiplayer without having to sideboard.
Yeah, my zombie deck usually gets wrecked by Maverick and Dredge, but the rub is that those decks don't fair well at big tables. So generally, I have to build decks to be able to handle more powerful threats than you're likely see in Legacy. It is usually less efficient threats than Legacy, but adding opponents adds time to the game, so efficiency is not always optimal.
"A rich man thinks all other people are rich, and an intelligent man thinks all other people are similarly gifted. Both are always terribly shocked when they discover the truth of the world. You, my dear brother, are a pious man." - Strahd von Zarovich
About me: I consider myself a Casual at heart. However, I think I'm a pretty good Magic player; I've been playing since the original Ravnica. I still make play mistakes that cost me matches, but I try to learn from them. I have a decent knowledge of cards and the rules (some layering intricacies are tricky and give me a headache though). Sometimes I go to small events like FNMs and Pre-releases. Sometimes I win prizes. In standard I usually find the deck that costs the least, wins the most, and leaves the smallest margin of error for play mistakes so I can grind store credit (99.9% of the time this is Red Deck Wins) because Standard is expensive at times and I like getting my cards for free. I'm compelled to do this by my inner pragmatist as opposed to any sort of competitive spirit; it costs $5 to enter an FNM, I'll be damned if I don't try to earn my money back. I play Standard because I like playing with the newest cards because I'm a Casual.
On casual: Casual is about having fun. Doesn't mean you don't play to win, or don't spend a lot of money, but at heart you're playing the game to play the game. 'Kitchen Table Casual' is about brewing something that defines you, that you enjoy playing, and your opponent enjoys playing against (i.e. don't show up at your friend's house on a Saturday night with Eggs or TurboFog expecting him to get a rise out of watching you sit across from him and have a nice *** with your uninteractive combo deck). It's a game after all, not some sort of a narcissistic, masochistic self-mutilation contest. Then no one is winning. If two people aren't playing, no one is 'winning'; you need two people to be emotionally/mentally engaged in the game for both of you to be having a good time. Then you both get some enjoyment and satisfaction out of the game. That way, if one person won and one person lost, you're both still 'winning'.
Some of my casual decks are pretty expensive, like $300. Some of my casual decks are pretty cheap, like $20. It's not about money, it's about using what you have and being okay with it.
tl;dr: casual is what you do with your friends. You don't beat them over the head with a netdeck and take their money and their good times and their hopes and dreams. That's what tourneys are for, but going to tourneys doesn't make you a "good player".
On Commander (/rant):
What's the deal with people with $1,000 Commander decks? It's a 100-card singleton format with no sanctioned events. People that go out and buy A/B/U duals, Mana Drains, pieces of Power, Legacy banned cards, Legacy staples, etc to have 1 copy of it in a 100-card deck for a casual format to have a powerful deck with a better win-rate is disgusting and astonishing. When I make a Commander deck I use what I have, trade for what I want, and if I really, really need something, I'll only buy it if it's ~$1.
It's 100-card singleton, you have like a 20% chance of seeing one of your broken-ass expensive cards in a given game, assuming you don't tutor or wish for it (which reminds me, some of those cards are pretty goddamn expensive too, AND they contradict the concept essence of the format).
It's supposed to be about variety and randomness and casual fun and some prick has to go and blow his paycheck on Legacy staples for a kitchen table format specifically because he can
tl;dr2: Commander is casual at heart but it can be lousy with tryhards and douches.
/endrant
edit: Casual can also be about building decks in a way geared towards your playgroup's meta, and learning/honing this unique and individualized canon. It's a pretty unique and experiential approach to playing the game that can make "Casual" with a stranger both interesting and challenging for both of you in a lot of ways because of how different two different Casual environments can be; one man's trash is another man's tech.
Combat Strix, i very much agree with your first two paragraphs, and your definition of casual. It was very eloquent, and i agree wholeheartedly, with the minor exception that i don't mind if someone wants to bring an uninteractive combo deck to a kitchen table game - they'll quickly become a target for all the other players, and should they somehow win, that just means i'll be playing control next game, for the express purpose of forcing the combo deck to interact. With my FoWs.
It's never really been a problem though, since any combo players i play with value things like having fun and interaction. They may want to get their rocks off with a combo deck every 1/10 games, and that's fine with me.
As for commander - I understand that a lot of people who play a given format want to make their deck the best it can possibly be, regardless of cost. I personally wouldn't play EDH for those reasons, but i understand the desire, and i respect those players. It takes a lot of dedication and resources to turn an EDH deck into the finely tuned machines that some of them are, and their efficiency/consistency can be quite astonishing for decks that have 100 cards and no duplicates.
My vision of casual v. competitive has always been dominated by my brothers and myself. My oldest brother and I are both Timmy/Johnny's. We try to make decks that will prove something (and used to enjoy testing such decks against each other on cockatrice before it got shut down). But neither of us would ever think about dropping $20 for that old card that is needed for his Bear deck or my Chronozoa/Mirror-Sigil Sergeant deck.
My next oldest brother, however, would trade 3 (mythic) rares for it and not have a second thought. His artifact deck, myr deck, and most of his other decks are far more expensive and powerful than any of my other brother's or mine, yet we still try and beat them. I think about his decks whenever I conceive of a new deck, because it's an obstacle, and obstacles exist to be passed over. Even though both my oldest brother and I would love to have decks that could match his any day, we don't want to spend the money or trade so many cards to get what is needed. We just work with what we have. I buy cards online every now and then because they're cheap, but rarely will I ever buy anything over a 75 cents.
I'm casual because I don't want to be restricted by a format and I don't want to spend the money to perfect my decks (with the exception of one). But one of my ultimate goals in Magic is to beat my brother. So ironically, that makes me competitive.
The point is, everyone is both casual and competitive. Some just lean more towards one end than another. I prefer to win with a challenge rather than dominate the board (with the exception of said deck earlier). One of my friends told me he just likes opening booster packs. My brother just wants the most absolute cutthroat and efficient deck he can make. Some people get the thrill from winning, and others get it from less tangible things.
The terms 'casual' and 'competitive', Spike and Timmy, should lose their negative connotations. I don't understand Spikes, but I do like winning, so I empathize with them slightly. But to sink to the level of labeling them as as a lonely person just wanting to find purpose in their life through winning a game is to put yourself in a position worse than what you labelled them as. Likewise, casual does not mean 'bad.' I know someone who plays casually and has decks that (IMO) would stomp some tournament level decks flat. Using categories as labels is refusing to recognize the human playing, and refusing to respect the spirit of the game itself.
What you think it currently means to other people, on this forum, in your town, or the world?
Right now, I think it means younger, more laid back players. Kids who spend their allowances on packs and the like. That seems to be the general view IMO.
Casual players (by practice if not mindset) definitely make up over 50% of Wizards' market. It's the same with any other game. Starcraft is famous for having so many Koreans play it and for having a huge amount of pros (in relation to other video games), but it wouldn't exist without people around the world just buying it to play a strategy game for a year or two. Same with MTG.
Yes, I'm a casual player. I would like to stay on this subforum as long as I visit this site. Simply because I don't feel like learning new lingo or being scoffed at for not knowing the best Standard options. I like just building decks my own way and winning my own way, not with a Boros Reckoner infinite health combo.
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Haven't played anything but EDH and casual for over a year
I find the major difference between casual and competitive Magic is the means and ends. In Competitive Magic, you of course want to win as quickly, efficiently, and definitively as possible. In Casual Magic, you can enjoy to struggle between battling parties at your leisure, and winning is less important, with a greater emphasis on playing the game itself.
At least, that's what I get out of it. I love those epic struggles. You just don't do much of that in competitive Magic.
As to your questions specifically:
1) Someone who enjoys the wider game, the less competitive aspects, and unique variety of decks it allows.
2) The above sentence.
3) It depends on the individual, but where I live currently, many of the competitive players laugh at anything I say that ins't in standard. They are all quite snobbish.
4) Casual oriented products are nice, but when you play casually, you get all the cards anyway.
5) I'm a casual player. Though I catch a limited tourny here and there, the kitchen table is my battlefield, and thousands of cards, my army. And that's the way I like it.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
60 Card Casual Multiplayer: B Dark Ides Life DrainR Rekindle Skies Phoenix TribalWB Veil Oath Tokens BR Brutal Scourge Eldrazi TribalRW Edge Worthy Mid-Range AggroGU Wisp Away Combo GWU Vigorous Flow Energy
Commander / EDH: RFeldon of the Third Path GURashmi, Eternities Crafter RWBMathas, Fiend Hunter GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice
I consider myself compleatly casual, and literally everyone I play with does too. Even our local tournament is casual, the only things banned being turn zero and infinite combos, strictly because they aren't fun to play against. my play group really just loves the game. We pick decks that do well against each other, and don't always end the game as soon as we know we can, just to see if the other person can come back. Sure we have our beast decks that(according to our friend that does play big tournaments every couple of months) could easily stand up against competitive decks, we just want to enjoy the experience if each game and not care if we win or lose. We still play by the rules, and if we have rule we break, or a card we play wrong, we fix it, and don't get but hurt when our combos don't work anymore. I think casual players are like us. You play whatever, against whoever, and you just play the game you fell in live with when you started.
I'm definately 100% casual and will say there are some terrible terrible casual players out there. There are also lots of bad competitive players out there but I am always weary of "casual" events in my town because a lot of times it simply means playing bad decks. I have my play group that meets every week and we do build powerful decks, but nothing that would consistently placed competitively. That being said our decks do stand their own typically in a very creative way and in my local shop will often throw peoples legacy/modern builds for a loop.
I think casual can mean poor player, but it also can mean someone that likes to play cards that cost too much mana to ever pull a high price tag and don't look to win by turn 2/3. Our games typically go to turn 6 or beyond but the end games are epic! Ex: Last night I have a griselband dropped on the board from a deathrender bloodspeaker combo, and the rb rakdoos which enabled me to draw and cast handfuls of creatures from my deck. I felt I had a guaranteed win until my opponent top decked warp world and out came a bunch flying haste dragons that my warp world demon drop just couldnt compete with! It was awesome! And is something you would never see outside of a casual game or within a game of poor deck building.
As a casual player I pride myself in creative Johnny deck building and I play competitively within my playgroup but would never look to dominate it with a high price tag quick winning net decks (deck building is one of my favorite parts of the game anyways). Our local shop does scoff at casual players and hates losing to them because I think it is a common misconception that casual means new player/bad player.
My definition of casual player: 1. Someone who likes to play the cards that they own and creatively build around them even if it doesn't reach tournament level competiveness. 2. New players who are just learning to play. 3. Bad players that just enjoy playing the game.
ok, sorry for my bad english, so i will try to do that quick
What is a casual player in magic?
- Any player that play outside of the (at least one) tournament rule.
What you would like it to mean?
- Any player that play outside of the (at least one) tournament rule.
What you think it currently means to other people, on this forum, in your town, or the world?
- so much different points, culture, monetary aspect, and others make the difference here, we need to choose one place to discuss each case, im happy since in my city the casual table has less standard and more legacy/modern and commander.
About products?
- they should be balanced to affect all the formats (from vintage/standard to commander/pauper)
About you?
- I'm a casual player. Though I catch a tourney here and there (legacy and modern), the kitchen table is my battlefield, and thousands of cards, my army. And that's the way I like it. (stolen from Red Archon)
The future?
- fun and/or crazy stuff make the future (mechanics like cascade or cipher, new styles like Commander or Planechase).
Casual is about the social aspect of the game as it is generally played within your playgroup(s) It's about having fun with your buddies and enjoying a good laugh (even if you find out later that some rule was misinterpreted. When it's all said and done, a successful casual experience probably involved drinks/food, laughter, a little whining, some close calls and everyone planning on doing it again soon.
It is not defined by your won/loss ratio, your desire to win, whether or not your a good player, how well you know the rules or how much coin you are willing to drop on your decks. Despite the fact that these reasons are typically used by some people to label casual players, IMO, incorrectly.
It is a subject quite close to my heart. (As you can see from my sig)
I would like to open a polite discussion about what 'casual players' are in hopes that it will form a clear culture on this forum.
I use the word "clear" because a lot of people seem to have a different idea of what a casual player is.
There is a large portion of people that consider a casual player a fool or a bad player.
There are other people that consider them less competitive, others that see certain products as designed solely for them and no one else, or casual players not being capable of playing tournaments because of that.
I would like to see a turn in the perspective to casual players being just "Less competitive".
Far too often I witness people berating forum members for defending a product/card because it's not the best version of it. I want this to stop.
I take exception to peoples comments about Duel Decks and Event Decks being for casuals as though casuals are fools. Sure, these products can be bad sometimes, but that doesn't mean a someone should judge the owner of such product as being a bad magic player.
So, your thoughts:
What is a casual player in magic?
What you would like it to mean?
What you think it currently means to other people, on this forum, in your town, or the world?
About products?
About you?
The future?
Some event decks and dual decks are designed for casual players. Some are a complete waste of money when the relevant singles could be had for much cheaper. Its for casuals in the sense that someone might want to go to a big box store and play it around the kitchen table and are not interested in ordering singles or construction etc.
that being said... i know bad players, they also happen to be casual players, and when i call them a bad player i dont mean they make mistakes left and right, i mean that they dont know the rules, that is what makes a bad player, not knowing how to play the game by the rules. and the thing that really pissed me off was when i heard who told them that they could respond to a player activating a mana ability. it was a couple of competitive players that broke the rules to win a match, another example of a bad player.
i really do enjoy magic. i really do enjoy the products they put out. i am a casual player that doesnt wish to play on a competitive level and i am fine with that. and until wizards ****s out a product that is only (and i mean only) containing cards that can not be played in any constructed format i dont feel that people should be so hostile toward people that like a card, or a format, or a particular product.
**not entirely sure if that came across clearly, i hope it did. great subject poem**
Shout out to commandercast for keeping me entertained.
What about other formats like Commander which are generally casual but could be played competitively.
Why not competitively playing a Duel Deck?
To me, an event deck is a supplement to those wanting competitive cards.
Confirmed Thragtusk = everyone buys it. The rest of the Simic one is poose but that guy really needed a forth Thraggy for his Tourny deck.
Should purchase trends and or monies just be separated from the definition of casual?
i think that this is where the drive to play magic is the difference. competitive edh is exactly what competitive standard is, the desire to win at a game. you can try to win playing a duel deck(wont go well...), you can try to win playing one lost in the woods and 59 forests. and you can play a vintage deck casually, i did this past weekend (bomberman is a load of fun). and again, its all in why you play.
Shout out to commandercast for keeping me entertained.
What is a casual player? I consider a casual player to be someone that doesn't take the game overly seriously. They don't play simply to win. I do not consider this a bad thing at all. I think you can be both casual and competitive. I consider myself a casual player, but when I play in a GP, limited event, or even FNM, I'm still doing my best to win. However, I also have a large collection of casual decks that I really enjoy playing. If I lose with a casual deck, no big deal, just hoping for a fun game, not a turn 3 combo death or some lame control lockdown. I also play EDH casually. If I want to win, I'll play my FNM's sealed or draft or league. I play EDH casually to use my old cards I've always wanted to use since I started in 94.
What you think it currently means to other people, on this forum, in your town, or the world? There's a lot of competitive players on MTGS. If you really care about the game and care about winning, getting more information is the smart thing to do. This site is a great way to do so. If you go in the sanctioned, competitive formats' forums, they're going to always rip on "casual" because they're playing to win. I'm fine with this. I'm not a huge fan of standard/legacy with the paper / rock /scissors metagaming myself. I prefer limited, I'm quite good at drafting and sealed. I am a SCG premium member and I watch all their drafts, plus I watch some pro play during the weekends for GPs or World Magic Cups. I take what I learn and apply it to when I play limited. However, I'm usually in the casual forums posting or improving other folks' decks, not worrying about pick #23. Don't take the label "casual" too personally. I'd be fine with someone referring to me as a casual player (or calling myself a casual player) and having them underestimate me in a game.
What you would like it to mean? When someone calls themselves a casual player, I think it's a good thing. I like to meet casual players. It actually means that they're probably a fun opponent to play, a good sport, and even a good person to trade with. Casual players are great to trade with. I collect sets and so I always need some awful rare that people are eager to get rid of. Whenever I meet other casual players, they can usually find something useful in my binder. Trading with ultra competitive standard folks usually goes like- Me: "Well I need that bulk rare Ogre Slumlord you have." Standard Player- "Sorry I just need Shocklands and Boros Reckoner." In competitive events, I like to have a good laugh about stuff with my opponent, even if I'm losing. During the Gatecrash prerelease, I had the unfortunate experience of playing an ultra competitive guy. He mistapped his mana for a spell and had already gone on to the next phase. He wanted to warp time to go back a phase to retap his mana and I said it wasn't allowed. He was mad, cursed at me calling me names, and he was already up 1 game, beating me thoroughly with extort/creatures (23 to 7 life or something with board presence). After he beat me soundly, I apologized for the "mana thing" and he said, "sorry, I overreacted." He eventually went on to win the whole prerelease, needless to say I wasn't clapping. Don't be that guy!
About products? I like casual products. Just because it's casual doesn't make it bad. I think the planechase stuff is casual, but very fun. Same thing with duel decks, theme decks, intro decks etc. I usually buy everything except the duel decks, and I'll probably get the sorin/tibalt one. I say keep the casual products coming. Avacyn Restored was my favorite set in the last year and it was hated by drafters but loved by casual players. I think this is fine. I had high hopes for Gatecrash, but I think it's actually the worst set of the (rotation) year. There aren't many cards to build whole fun decks around and it's just too aggressive in limited.
About you? I'm proud to call myself a casual player. I play Magic for fun. I also own a lot of cards from older sets (Fallen Empires to Urza's block). I think it's fun to combine the old classic cards with new stuff. Degenerate combos and control have never been my style. This doesn't mean I'm not a good player. I have two vintage decks that could wreck
just about anything and can win very fast, but I almost never use them. One is especially NOT fun featuring nasty discard. Mind twist for most of your hand on the play isn't exactly a good game of magic! I don't play others with these decks much. I'd rather use my fun decks like my crazy meekstone deck, my abyssal gatekeeper deck, or classic rabid wombat deck. I can turn on my competitive side to play sealed or draft, but I don't ever want to have a bad time because of bad beats. To play magic at FNM, league, or GPs/opens, I need to use up valuable free time. I don't want to have a bad time due to losing/bad luck. One example of this is I joined our recent Gatecrash league at my LGS. I'd played in two other leagues and did fairly well and everyone there is really cool. Sadly, my sealed pool was just awful. I got a really crazy distribution of cards that was very evenly spread over all 5 guilds/colors. The bad part is I had almost no creatures! No matter which way you built it, I had 13 creatures max in any THREE color combos! Needless to say, in the aggressive format of GTC, I got my butt kicked! The next week, I opened my pack, got nothing again. I went home annoyed and dejected after getting stomped with an awful deck. The next sunday, I dropped from the league because I realized I wasn't having fun. Morale of the story- If you're not having fun, take a break, don't play mad.
The Future? Wotc is going to keep releasing casual cards/ products because casual products are their core audience. They are also going to keep releasing overly powerful standard cards that see play in tourneys. It's their goal to make casual, standard, edh, drafters, modern, and legacy players happy. It doesn't always happen and it's not going to happen every set. Any way you slice it, casual players will always have the most fun, least tilt
Magic is a much more fun game once you realize that you're probably not going to make the pro tour. And even if you did, what type of life would that be? Just look at the pros complaining now. Flying from city to city, sitting in a huge convention center every weekend with folding tables and 10 hour+ days. Then having your "job" rely on the luck of the draw/manascrew/matchup pairings. Doesn't seem very glamorous to me! Forget about standard and trade for their stuff for cheap when it's about to rotate out. I'm looking forward to trading/buying some cheap Thundermaw Hellkites, miracle cards etc. this summer! Long live casual!
EDH Decks
RGMarhault Elsdragon (A Touch of Rampage)RG
GWTrostani, Early Bird (Wurm Tribal)GW
RWAgrus Kos, Bumbat Drinkin' BadassRW
RDiaochan, Hateful BeautyR
What is a casual palyer in Magic? For me, a casual player is one that isn't going to go all out and be obsessed with the best cards or even be in the grand scheme of things we call, "Pro". I personally think that casual players exist to maintain as another person said, "Balance" in MTG.
What you would like it to mean? For me, I have no opinion on what I want it to be. "Let a Spade be a Spade" is what I am taught.
What you think it currently means to other people, on this forum, in your town, or the world? Casual players get mixed feelings from many people around the world. It's nice to make social networking when you find them, yet at the same time, a face-to-face meeting brings out a players ambitions, hopes, dreams, secrets, and many things you wouldn't get on a forum or even playing on Trice, MWS, or even MGTO. For the world, MTG is one way to create or in some cases, break bonds with one another.
About products? With more "Out of the Box" casual players abound, the future of MTG isn't in question. The question is, "How long will it take for them to go into the limelight?" For some like myself, I get the product as a way to better enhance my position as a deck maker and tester. Nothing more. Others use casual gaming to gauge themselves against their peers before moving on to bigger and better things. But in light of all this, the product will always be in flux because the casual crowd and the trends they carry.
About you? The future? For me, I'm a Semi-Casual player. I will throw down when I wish to, but never forget my roots and will ease up when playing amongst my peers who aren't into the competitive scene. For me, I believe by going to prereleases, testing decks out, going all out, and making every deck to "YOUR" design, you can become greater, even if you don't wish to be competitive. At the end of the day, every deck I make has a story to tell about my life. Every card is delibrate, every move is a constant reminder of how I felt when I created that deck, every victory and defeat, a lesson that I take with me and create more memories from. At the end, my future TBBH, is one that I can play Magic, enjoy the thrill of the game and at the end of the day, convince others to join my passion.
That is but a hopeful future that has a slight chance of reality. For now, I'll gladly accpet my role in this game and play and create to my hearts content.
Nuff Said.
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I've seen plenty of competitive players mock casual players saying that they're "wasting their cards" because they'll never use them to accomplish anything more than beating their friends at a kitchen table match.
I've also seen many casuals sit atop their high horse and scoff at competitive players for their inability to enjoy a game. Using the word spike in a derogatory manner to refer to someone who just wants to win like its a bad thing. Also this is usually accompanied by an attack on how that player "just netdecks" and "can't see the creativity (and therefore can't fully enjoy) of the game."
There are similarities though. I've encountered numerous "rage quit" episodes from both sides of the spectrum. As well as players on either side making atrocious plays and writing them off as their opponents "getting lucky."
All in all I feel that these are the outliers in the population. I'd like to think that most magic players can straddle the line between casual and competitive. At least the majority of the ones I know in real life can.
Thanks to Rivenor @ //forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=329663"/"> Miraculous Recovery for the Sig!
Everyone will have a different answer. I go to FNMs, I'm there to win, I've started an ebay business buying & selling cards, and I'm constantly thinking about decks and how to make them better, but still consider myself "casual."
Why? Because I really only go to a handful of FNM's a month, and while I'm interested in eventually going to some larger events, it'd be for the experience, not really expecting to win. I don't know the ins and outs of all the rules, and I know I make a lot of play mistakes. My sideboard skills are pretty sub-par. I'm not in a rush to get playsets of every good card in standard (I'm looking at you, boros reckoner!)
To me, a "competitive" mtg player:
- Would make a significant effort to learn the rules in greater detail (i.e. become at least a level 1 judge)
- Would go to way more events, and bigger ones, and probably play online in order to get more competition experience.
- Would actively seek out other competitive people as a playgroup/testgroup
- Would focus on building decks most likely to win, rather than the decks that are the most enjoyable to play.
- Would pick a couple of decks and stick with them to learn them initimately rather than bouncing around.
- Would have to be way more interested in standard and limited rather than legacy and modern.
- Would never let price get in the way of having a better deck.
Not sure if OP will get objective responses in here.
(:hi: RMSO)
@OP: some of the best deck builders and players I know are casual players. Not having the time and/or motivation to participate in DCI sanctioned tournaments doesn't make someone a bad player.
It is a typical misinterpretation of what a casual player is, fueled by a non-small amount of players who have never gone anywhere near a rulebook, or have no idea how to build a deck other than "put all the red cards you pull out from packs together in a big pile and draw from it".
But no. They are not synonymous.
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The best way for me to approach this I think is to provide my deffinition of all parties involved: The casual player, the bad player, and the competitive player.
I am a casual player. I hold fun, and courtesy above winning. It does not mean I like to lose, or that I am a BAD player I just have different reasons for playing this COLLECTABLE CARD GAME, because in the end thats all that it is. To me the moment you lose sight of that fact is when you cease to be a casual player of any game. Although there is a different category of casual players as well, the ones who are too apathetic to master the game, and learn the rules. I think this is where alot of the Casual Players = Bad players stereotypes comes from.
Now bad players, these are interesting, a few posts up some one made a comment about a bad player as some one who is ignorant of the rules, and lacking in mastery of the game, its true that this can be applied as a very superficial description of a bad player, but for me the definition of a bad player has much more to do with character than skill. Bad players to me are the jerks of our society, the low self esteemed individuals whose fragile egos fiend on the rush of victory, whether it was a victory earned or swindled does not matter as long as for a moment in time they can validate their existence, and drag you into their miserable reality. These I avoid at all costs, because there is nothing to gain from any kind of interaction with them, even if I win the game the victory still feels empty, and I'm usually left in a very negative mindset, and the pressure to win is usually very contagious and unwelcomed for me.
Now for the competitive player, a true competitive player to me isn't just looking for a win, they are looking for a challenge, they thrive on the pressure of gaming making decisions, and well earned victories against able opponents. These are the samurai of Magic. I respect the competitive player as there is always something I can learn from them rule wise, or meta wise. These are the bread and butter of the MTG subculture I think, because they know their stuff and are usually willing to impart their knowledge on those who are willing to learn. Creating better players, means a creating a challenge for them one day, all while extending the reach of MTG upon the known universe.
Well those are my thoughts, it took me quite a bit longer to articulate these three paragraphs than I anticipated so I'm gonna go hang out with my friends and play some Magic instead of pondering on the rest of the thinking points for this thread. Have fun, and play well friends.
RIP Karn EDH
I think that a "casual player" is merely someone who primarily plays casual magic, where casual refers to the "format" that has no official rules or b&r list.
I think by using such an intentionally loose definition, it's easy to come up with something that applies to all casual players regardless of skill, budget, or motivation, and most importantly doesn't make or encourage any other assumptions about what kind of player that person might be. I know that probably sounds like i'm stating the obvious, but to a lot of people, "casual" doesn't mean what it should.
I don't think "fun" or "motive to win" are good ways to delineate casual from everything else; everybody plays the game to have fun, but people have different motives and sometimes have them at the same time. I play a casual version of RG Tron with my friends because I might win (spike!), assembling tron while keeping back the weenies with Pyroclasm is tricksy and clever (johnny!), I get out huge creatures (timmy!), and I do cheap eldrazi cards as my only creatures so that I've got a bit of a vorthos streak keeping it flavorful.
Even within all this, different people will play differently at different times. One guy might play more "casually" with his friends at the kitchen table where they all get off on Johnny and Timmy kicks while he also brews tier 1 decks to take to events.
You can see this level of variability just here in the casual subforum. Most deck help threads include an explanation of the player's card pool, budget, and meta even if it's largely just implied by the cards in an initial list (e.g., if it's all Zen+ cheap cards we would infer one thing while if there are Demonic Pacts and Necropotences we would infer another thing).
I would say that the best way to handle "casual" as a label is to think carefully about the context. For example, it might be "casual" to play budget standard, but here on MTGS we have a dedicated subforum for that and another one for casual that doesn't easily fit. If somebody at your first PTQ asks you what all you play and you typically do FNMs, you might answer with FNMs even though FNM is casual in relation to PTQ play. If you took the best deck you could to a PTQ and you play a guy with UB control because he likes UB control, he's being a bit casual, but that's fine.
What people really have to understand is that just because somebody's more casual than you it doesn't make you better than them. It really is just a game, maybe some people take it too seriously, playing to win is okay though, etc etc.
I've got some 1v1 decks that have good match-ups against parts of the Legacy meta, because Casual play includes Legacy, Modern, Standard, and past Standard decks.
More often though, I build with multiplayer in mind rather than build two zombie decks. So my current zombie deck will be a bit slow against most tourney decks, but can do fine against rogue decks or be ready for multiplayer without having to sideboard.
Yeah, my zombie deck usually gets wrecked by Maverick and Dredge, but the rub is that those decks don't fair well at big tables. So generally, I have to build decks to be able to handle more powerful threats than you're likely see in Legacy. It is usually less efficient threats than Legacy, but adding opponents adds time to the game, so efficiency is not always optimal.
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A player who plays in games not sanctioned by the DCI.
About products?
Down with The Reserve List! Oops, wrong thread. Uh, I hope they make gold bordered Cubes someday! Yeah...
About you?
I'm a former tournament player who lost interest in following DCI events. A lot of casual Spikes I've met fit that same story.
The future?
I'm too busy trying to enjoy the present to look ahead.
On casual: Casual is about having fun. Doesn't mean you don't play to win, or don't spend a lot of money, but at heart you're playing the game to play the game. 'Kitchen Table Casual' is about brewing something that defines you, that you enjoy playing, and your opponent enjoys playing against (i.e. don't show up at your friend's house on a Saturday night with Eggs or TurboFog expecting him to get a rise out of watching you sit across from him and have a nice *** with your uninteractive combo deck). It's a game after all, not some sort of a narcissistic, masochistic self-mutilation contest. Then no one is winning. If two people aren't playing, no one is 'winning'; you need two people to be emotionally/mentally engaged in the game for both of you to be having a good time. Then you both get some enjoyment and satisfaction out of the game. That way, if one person won and one person lost, you're both still 'winning'.
Some of my casual decks are pretty expensive, like $300. Some of my casual decks are pretty cheap, like $20. It's not about money, it's about using what you have and being okay with it.
tl;dr: casual is what you do with your friends. You don't beat them over the head with a netdeck and take their money and their good times and their hopes and dreams. That's what tourneys are for, but going to tourneys doesn't make you a "good player".
On Commander (/rant):
What's the deal with people with $1,000 Commander decks? It's a 100-card singleton format with no sanctioned events. People that go out and buy A/B/U duals, Mana Drains, pieces of Power, Legacy banned cards, Legacy staples, etc to have 1 copy of it in a 100-card deck for a casual format to have a powerful deck with a better win-rate is disgusting and astonishing. When I make a Commander deck I use what I have, trade for what I want, and if I really, really need something, I'll only buy it if it's ~$1.
It's 100-card singleton, you have like a 20% chance of seeing one of your broken-ass expensive cards in a given game, assuming you don't tutor or wish for it (which reminds me, some of those cards are pretty goddamn expensive too, AND they contradict the concept essence of the format).
It's supposed to be about variety and randomness and casual fun and some prick has to go and blow his paycheck on Legacy staples for a kitchen table format specifically because he can
tl;dr2: Commander is casual at heart but it can be lousy with tryhards and douches.
/endrant
edit: Casual can also be about building decks in a way geared towards your playgroup's meta, and learning/honing this unique and individualized canon. It's a pretty unique and experiential approach to playing the game that can make "Casual" with a stranger both interesting and challenging for both of you in a lot of ways because of how different two different Casual environments can be; one man's trash is another man's tech.
It's never really been a problem though, since any combo players i play with value things like having fun and interaction. They may want to get their rocks off with a combo deck every 1/10 games, and that's fine with me.
As for commander - I understand that a lot of people who play a given format want to make their deck the best it can possibly be, regardless of cost. I personally wouldn't play EDH for those reasons, but i understand the desire, and i respect those players. It takes a lot of dedication and resources to turn an EDH deck into the finely tuned machines that some of them are, and their efficiency/consistency can be quite astonishing for decks that have 100 cards and no duplicates.
My vision of casual v. competitive has always been dominated by my brothers and myself. My oldest brother and I are both Timmy/Johnny's. We try to make decks that will prove something (and used to enjoy testing such decks against each other on cockatrice before it got shut down). But neither of us would ever think about dropping $20 for that old card that is needed for his Bear deck or my Chronozoa/Mirror-Sigil Sergeant deck.
My next oldest brother, however, would trade 3 (mythic) rares for it and not have a second thought. His artifact deck, myr deck, and most of his other decks are far more expensive and powerful than any of my other brother's or mine, yet we still try and beat them. I think about his decks whenever I conceive of a new deck, because it's an obstacle, and obstacles exist to be passed over. Even though both my oldest brother and I would love to have decks that could match his any day, we don't want to spend the money or trade so many cards to get what is needed. We just work with what we have. I buy cards online every now and then because they're cheap, but rarely will I ever buy anything over a 75 cents.
I'm casual because I don't want to be restricted by a format and I don't want to spend the money to perfect my decks (with the exception of one). But one of my ultimate goals in Magic is to beat my brother. So ironically, that makes me competitive.
The point is, everyone is both casual and competitive. Some just lean more towards one end than another. I prefer to win with a challenge rather than dominate the board (with the exception of said deck earlier). One of my friends told me he just likes opening booster packs. My brother just wants the most absolute cutthroat and efficient deck he can make. Some people get the thrill from winning, and others get it from less tangible things.
The terms 'casual' and 'competitive', Spike and Timmy, should lose their negative connotations. I don't understand Spikes, but I do like winning, so I empathize with them slightly. But to sink to the level of labeling them as as a lonely person just wanting to find purpose in their life through winning a game is to put yourself in a position worse than what you labelled them as. Likewise, casual does not mean 'bad.' I know someone who plays casually and has decks that (IMO) would stomp some tournament level decks flat. Using categories as labels is refusing to recognize the human playing, and refusing to respect the spirit of the game itself.
Right now, I think it means younger, more laid back players. Kids who spend their allowances on packs and the like. That seems to be the general view IMO.
Casual players (by practice if not mindset) definitely make up over 50% of Wizards' market. It's the same with any other game. Starcraft is famous for having so many Koreans play it and for having a huge amount of pros (in relation to other video games), but it wouldn't exist without people around the world just buying it to play a strategy game for a year or two. Same with MTG.
Yes, I'm a casual player. I would like to stay on this subforum as long as I visit this site. Simply because I don't feel like learning new lingo or being scoffed at for not knowing the best Standard options. I like just building decks my own way and winning my own way, not with a Boros Reckoner infinite health combo.
At least, that's what I get out of it. I love those epic struggles. You just don't do much of that in competitive Magic.
As to your questions specifically:
1) Someone who enjoys the wider game, the less competitive aspects, and unique variety of decks it allows.
2) The above sentence.
3) It depends on the individual, but where I live currently, many of the competitive players laugh at anything I say that ins't in standard. They are all quite snobbish.
4) Casual oriented products are nice, but when you play casually, you get all the cards anyway.
5) I'm a casual player. Though I catch a limited tourny here and there, the kitchen table is my battlefield, and thousands of cards, my army. And that's the way I like it.
B Dark Ides Life DrainR Rekindle Skies Phoenix TribalWB Veil Oath Tokens
BR Brutal Scourge Eldrazi TribalRW Edge Worthy Mid-Range AggroGU Wisp Away Combo
GWU Vigorous Flow Energy
Commander / EDH:
RFeldon of the Third Path
GURashmi, Eternities Crafter
RWBMathas, Fiend Hunter
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice
I think casual can mean poor player, but it also can mean someone that likes to play cards that cost too much mana to ever pull a high price tag and don't look to win by turn 2/3. Our games typically go to turn 6 or beyond but the end games are epic! Ex: Last night I have a griselband dropped on the board from a deathrender bloodspeaker combo, and the rb rakdoos which enabled me to draw and cast handfuls of creatures from my deck. I felt I had a guaranteed win until my opponent top decked warp world and out came a bunch flying haste dragons that my warp world demon drop just couldnt compete with! It was awesome! And is something you would never see outside of a casual game or within a game of poor deck building.
As a casual player I pride myself in creative Johnny deck building and I play competitively within my playgroup but would never look to dominate it with a high price tag quick winning net decks (deck building is one of my favorite parts of the game anyways). Our local shop does scoff at casual players and hates losing to them because I think it is a common misconception that casual means new player/bad player.
My definition of casual player: 1. Someone who likes to play the cards that they own and creatively build around them even if it doesn't reach tournament level competiveness. 2. New players who are just learning to play. 3. Bad players that just enjoy playing the game.
What is a casual player in magic?
- Any player that play outside of the (at least one) tournament rule.
What you would like it to mean?
- Any player that play outside of the (at least one) tournament rule.
What you think it currently means to other people, on this forum, in your town, or the world?
- so much different points, culture, monetary aspect, and others make the difference here, we need to choose one place to discuss each case, im happy since in my city the casual table has less standard and more legacy/modern and commander.
About products?
- they should be balanced to affect all the formats (from vintage/standard to commander/pauper)
About you?
- I'm a casual player. Though I catch a tourney here and there (legacy and modern), the kitchen table is my battlefield, and thousands of cards, my army. And that's the way I like it. (stolen from Red Archon)
The future?
- fun and/or crazy stuff make the future (mechanics like cascade or cipher, new styles like Commander or Planechase).
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It is not defined by your won/loss ratio, your desire to win, whether or not your a good player, how well you know the rules or how much coin you are willing to drop on your decks. Despite the fact that these reasons are typically used by some people to label casual players, IMO, incorrectly.