Minotaur Deck

  • #1
    Hi, i'm an insane fan of Minotaurs, so, as you can expect, i'm doing an Minotaur Deck, and here we go:

    Halted Asylum's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    LANDS (22)
    18 Mountain
    04 Balduvian Trading Post

    CREATURES (26)
    4 Anaba Ancestor
    4 Minotaur Explorer
    4 Hurloon Minotaur
    4 Hurloon Shaman
    4 Talruum Minotaur
    4 Anaba Spirit Crafter
    2 Tahngarth, Talruum Hero

    OTHERS (12)
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Firebolt
    4 Didgeridoo



    MANA CURVE:

    1 mana: 12 cards
    2 mana: 08 cards
    3 mana: 08 cards
    4 mana: 08 cards
    5 mana: 02 cards

    Didgeridoo help Minotaurs have FLASH.

    Do you think Dormant Volcano or Forgotten Cave, make this deck slower?

    My only problem is: how to destroy an enchantment without splashing any other color?

    What should i place on side?

    How's that? I'm trying to make an aggro deck. Anything to add?

    Ready to hear any suggestions.
    "Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
  • #2
    Just say no to Dormant Volcano! Use any of the Ravnica Karoos (e.g. Boros Garrison); at least they let you bounce tapped lands.

    No Anaba Shaman? Seems to me like it might be more useful than Hurloon Minotaur - pinging is a pretty sweet ability.

    Otherwise, looks OK. Most Minotaur cards are so blah that it's hard for me to get excited about them, but to each his own. Wink

    Red has no way to deal with enchantments, obviously. You'll have to use some sort of artifact sweeper like Engineered Explosives or Nevinyrral's Disk for that.
  • #3
    I think Rite of Flame should be cut in favor of more removal. Incinerate, perhaps? Or Lightning Bolt? I guess it depends on what you can get away with running.
  • #4
    Quote from Azerbaijan
    Just say no to Dormant Volcano! Use any of the Ravnica Karoos (e.g. Boros Garrison); at least they let you bounce tapped lands.

    No Anaba Shaman? Seems to me like it might be more useful than Hurloon Minotaur - pinging is a pretty sweet ability.

    Otherwise, looks OK. Most Minotaur cards are so blah that it's hard for me to get excited about them, but to each his own. Wink

    Red has no way to deal with enchantments, obviously. You'll have to use some sort of artifact sweeper like Engineered Explosives or Nevinyrral's Disk for that.

    Yes but the price for Anaba Shaman's ping is a little high when u can use the planar chaos red version of the blue pinging wizard "tim"
    Tattooed Red Mage
  • #5
    Quote from KingHeath
    Yes but the price for Anaba Shaman's ping is a little high when u can use the planar chaos red version of the blue pinging wizard "tim"
    But Prodigal Pyromancer is not a minotaur. A lot of these minotaurs are "meh" if compared to other cards, but this is a minotaur deck.
  • #6
    Azerbaijan: you're right, its a Minotaur Deck. I think its a good tip Anaba Shaman, i'll try that. (Sorry that you don't share my fanness about Minotaur:-/ , but i hope Wizards release some cool Minotaur cards, for my enjoy and the theme became under speculation of other players). Again Thanks alot for your help.

    KingHeath: Azerbaijan is right, i'm just including minotaur in this deck. But thanks for trying to help anyway.

    Mdmunoz: Do you think i must exchange Rite of Flame for Lightining Bolt? I use Rite since it accelerates my deck, and even if lands are destroyed, i can cast some bigger creatures. Should i change it for direct damage?
    "Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
  • #7
    Quote from Halted Asylum
    I think its a good tip Anaba Shaman, i'll try that. (Sorry that you don't share my fanness about Minotaur:-/ , but i hope Wizards release some cool Minotaur cards, for my enjoy and the theme became under speculation of other players). Again Thanks alot for your help.
    Sure. I tend to agree about the lame Minotaurs they've printed. It seems like a lot of the mid-sized red creatures that are Beasts or Elementals could be better flavored as Minotaurs.

    I do have 4x Didgeridoo, but I always planned to use them in some sort of Conspiracy deck which doesn't actually contain any natural Minotaurs. Perhaps that could be a backup plan for you if this deck doesn't pan out. Wink
  • #8
    Hi,

    I came up with some ideas that can help the efficiency of the deck. Here they are:

    Sirocco vs Control Blue
    Pyroclasm vs Winnie (Only Anaba Ancestor has a toughness that can be hit)
    Onslaught vs Aggro (and most creature based deck, work perfectly with Didgeridoo)
    Shatter vs Artifacts
    Nevinyrral's Disk vs Enchantment (like you said)
    Seething Anger vs Creature based decks

    What you think about these cards?
    "Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
  • #9
    Quote from Halted Asylum
    Mdmunoz: Do you think i must exchange Rite of Flame for Lightining Bolt? I use Rite since it accelerates my deck, and even if lands are destroyed, i can cast some bigger creatures. Should i change it for direct damage?
    I think you should definitely try it with some burn spells in those slots and see if you like it. Rite of Flame doesn't seem worth the card just to have one extra mana on one turn, especially when there is no outlet to fill your graveyard. If it works for you, there's no reason not to have it in, but I think clearing blockers from the table will be more helpful in the long run.
  • #10
    You might try tracking down the Tahngarth Vanguard card. Ask, and people might let you play it. It's not as crazily broken as the others, and, as has been said, this is a minotaur deck.
    "Live to the point of tears." ~ Camus
  • #11
    I agree, have all creatures have Haste would be marvellous, but i guess they'll not let me play with it (i don't even have it yet), since they don't have any Vanguard card too. But certainly would be very nice and tasteful Wink .

    Do you think the cards i mentioned above deserve a place on the deck? Specially Onslaught and Seething Anger? I thinking them on the place of Firebolt and Rite of Flame.

    I'm thinking about make a side with:

    SIDEBOARDMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    3 Nevinyrral's Disk
    4 Sirocco
    4 Shatter
    4 Pyroclasm



    What you think?

    My friend suggested me Red Elemental Blast for the place of Sirocco, do you agree? (i still think Sirocco is better since for REB i should hold a mana for that, and a Second turn Sirocco is amazing, disrupt all blue control plans, if they have 2 or 3 instants on hand, the only advantage of REB is that can take care of cards like Propaganda)

    Don't you agree?
    Last edited by Halted Asylum: 5/8/2007 1:31:10 AM
    "Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
  • #12
    So... are you going for "good", or are you going strictly for "theme"?? I'm thinking... if ya wanna make something really fun and "themey", then run a Highlander-Minotaur creature base. In english that means, run one of each & every Minotaur ever printed! Cool

    twig78's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    1 Anaba Bodyguard
    1 Anaba Shaman
    1 Anaba Spirit Crafter
    1 Hurloon Minotaur
    1 Hurloon Shaman
    1 Karplusan Minotaur
    1 Labyrinth Minotaur
    1 Minotaur Explorer
    1 Minotaur Illusionist
    1 Minotaur Tactician
    1 Minotaur Warrior
    1 Ordruun Commando
    1 Raging Minotaur
    1 Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
    1 Talruum Champion
    1 Talruum Minotaur
    1 Talruum Piper
    1 Zerapa Minotaur




    Hopefully that's it (18 of 'em!)... i do love the magiccards.info site for seeking out such wierdness!

    Of course to do this, you'll have to run Red/Blue, & you'll probably have to do some searching & buying. But with red & blue, you should be able to round out your utility cards enough to make the deck at least playable, depending on how high the quality is in your playgroup's decks.
    "Set the demons free and watch 'em fly!" - Gene Simmons / KISS
  • #13
    Quote from mdmunoz
    I think you should definitely try it with some burn spells in those slots and see if you like it. Rite of Flame doesn't seem worth the card just to have one extra mana on one turn, especially when there is no outlet to fill your graveyard. If it works for you, there's no reason not to have it in, but I think clearing blockers from the table will be more helpful in the long run.


    You were right, i MD Lightning Bolt and Onslaught, instead of Rite of Flame and Firebolt.

    Thinking about: Mana Echoes + Didgeridoo. If you have 2 minotaurs and 3 mana open, you can place down all minotaurs in hand, you will just take some mana burn.
    Last edited by Halted Asylum: 5/9/2007 12:46:39 AM
    "Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
  • #14
    Quote from Halted Asylum
    Thinking about: Mana Echoes + Didgeridoo. If you have 2 minotaurs and 3 mana open, you can place down all minotaurs in hand, you will just take some mana burn.
    I think that if you want to go down that road, you need to be able to fill your hand. Browbeat seems decent for this.
  • #15
    mdmunoz: i used it and win....but that was a perfect drop game, don't know if it doesn't happen that way.

    See the game (Gruul Beats):

    1st Turn
    Me: Mountain, Onslaught (20/20)
    Him: Forest, Llanowar (20/20)

    2nd Turn
    Me: Mountain, Onlaught and Didgeridoo (20/20)
    Him, Mountain, Burning-Tree Shaman (20/20)

    3rd Turn
    Me: Mountain, Browbeat (he took the damage) (20/15)
    Him: Mountain, Rumbling Slum, BTS damage (17/15)

    4th Turn
    Me: Mountain, Mana Echoes, 1 damage of Slum (16/15)
    Him: Forest, another Rumbling Slum, attacked with Rumbling Slum and Burning-Tree Shaman, 8 damage and took 1 damage of Slum (08/12)

    5th Turn
    Me: Mountain, pass 1 damage of slum
    Him: Forest, Kird Ape and a Burning-Tree Shaman (in response of BTS, yet in his main, i used didgeridoo, casted 1 Talruum Minotaur, 1 Anaba Spirit Crafter. With onslaught i tapped all his creatures) Shaman resolved, than i cast Anaba Ancestor and with Didigeridoo 1 Tahngarth, Talruum Hero, taking 2 damage because of the 2 BTS, and tapped the last BTS). Took a total of 4 damage by BTS and he took 2 by Slum (04/12)

    6th Turn
    Me: took 2 damage of Slum, untapped and he conceded. Potencially (2/-1).

    Lucky? Surely, but the 5 damage of Browbeat helped me alot. Anyway, i don't think this is the best way to go through, i think Lightning Bolt, Onslaught and Didgeridoo are ok and safer.
    Last edited by Halted Asylum: 5/9/2007 4:41:56 PM
    "Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
  • #16
    Quote from Halted Asylum
    ... i used didgeridoo, casted 1 Talruum Minotaur, 1 Anaba Spirit Crafter. With onslaught i tapped all his creatures)


    Dude... that doesn't work. Onslaught only triggers when you cast a creature. Using Didgeridoo to put a minotaur into play is not the same thing as casting said minotaur.

    On the flipside, as a positive note, since Didgeridoo puts creatures into play (apposed to casting them), those creatures that come into play can't be countered by a conventional counterspell. Stifle, on the other hand, would counter the Didgeridoo effect.
    "Set the demons free and watch 'em fly!" - Gene Simmons / KISS
  • #17
    Hi Twig78,

    Maybe you didn't see, but the oracle for Onslaught (look text on the right side) is: Whenever you play a creature spell, tap target creature. It didn't say cast anymore, or even, play from your hand.

    So yes, it did work!!!!Grin

    You're right, through Didgeridoo, that Minotaur can't be countered by normal way, only by specific cards like Stifle or Trickbind

    And thanks for trying to help.
    "Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
  • #18
    Quote from Halted Asylum
    Hi Twig78,

    Maybe you didn't see, but the oracle for Onslaught (look text on the right side) is: Whenever you play a creature spell, tap target creature. It didn't say cast anymore, or even, play from your hand.

    So yes, it did work!!!!Grin
    Sorry, but it doesn't. "Play a spell" and "put into play" are two different things from a rules standpoint.
  • #19
    mdmunoz and twig78 are correct putting a card into play is different from playing a card

    Quote from Rulls


    409.1. Playing a spell or activated ability follows the steps listed below, in order. If, at any point during the playing of a spell or ability, a player is unable to comply with any of the steps listed below, the spell was played illegally; the game returns to the moment before that spell or ability was played (see rule 422, "Handling Illegal Actions"). Announcements and payments can't be altered after they've been made.

    409.1a The player announces that he or she is playing the spell or activated ability. It moves from the zone it's in to the stack and remains there until it's countered or resolves. In the case of spells, the physical card goes onto the stack. In the case of activated abilities, the ability goes onto the stack without any card associated with it. If the ability is being played from a hidden zone, the card with that ability is revealed. Each spell has all the characteristics of the card associated with it. Each activated ability on the stack has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. The controller of a spell is the player who played the spell. The controller of an activated ability is the player who played the ability.

    409.1b If the spell or ability is modal (uses the phrase "Choose one -" or "[specified player] chooses one -"), the player announces the mode choice. If the player wishes to splice any cards onto the spell, he or she reveals those cards in his or her hand. If the spell or ability has a variable mana cost (indicated by {X}) or some other variable cost, the player announces the value of that variable at this time. If the spell or ability has alternative, additional, or other special costs (such as buyback, kicker, or convoke costs), the player announces his or her intentions to pay any or all of those costs (see rule 409.1f). You can't apply two alternative methods of playing or two alternative costs to a single spell or ability. Previously made choices (such as choosing to play a spell with flashback from his or her graveyard or choosing to play a creature with morph face down) may restrict the player's options when making these choices.

    409.1c If the spell or ability requires any targets, the player first announces how many targets he or she will choose (if the spell or ability has a variable number of targets), then announces the targets themselves. A player can't play a spell or ability unless he or she chooses the required number of legal targets. The same target can't be chosen multiple times for any one instance of the word "target" on the spell or ability. If the spell or ability uses the word "target" in multiple places, the same object, player, or zone can be chosen once for each instance of the word "target" (as long as it fits the targeting criteria).
    Example: If an ability reads "Tap two target creatures," then the same target can't be chosen twice; the ability requires two different legal targets. An ability that reads "Destroy target artifact and target land," however, can target the same artifact land twice because it uses the word "target" in multiple places.

    409.1d If the spell or ability targets one or more targets only if an alternative, additional, or special cost (such as a buyback or kicker cost) is paid for it, or if a particular mode is chosen for it, its controller chooses those targets only if he or she announced the intention to pay that cost or chose that mode. Otherwise, the spell or ability is played as though it did not have those targets.

    409.1e If the spell or ability affects several targets in different ways, the player announces how it will affect each target. If the spell or ability requires the player to divide or distribute an effect (such as damage or counters) among one or more targets, or any number of untargeted objects or players, the player announces the division. Each of these targets, objects, or players must receive at least one of whatever is being divided.

    409.1f The player determines the total cost of the spell or ability. Usually this is just the mana cost (for spells) or activation cost (for abilities). Some cards list additional or alternative costs in their text. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost, activation cost, or alternative cost, plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can't be reduced to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, it becomes "locked in." If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.

    409.1g If the total cost includes a mana payment, the player then has a chance to play mana abilities (see rule 411, "Playing Mana Abilities"). Mana abilities must be played before costs are paid.

    409.1h The player pays the total cost in any order. Partial payments are not allowed. Unpayable costs can't be paid.
    Example: You play Death Bomb, which costs {3}{B} and has an additional cost of sacrificing a creature. You sacrifice Thunderscape Familiar, whose effect makes your black spells cost {1} less to play. Because a spell's total cost is "locked in" before payments are actually made, you pay {2}{B}, not {3}{B}, even though you're sacrificing the Familiar.

    409.1i Once the steps described in 409.1a-h are completed, the spell or ability becomes played. Any abilities that trigger on a spell or ability being played or put onto the stack trigger at this time. If the spell or ability's controller had priority before playing it, he or she gets priority.


    Probaly quoted more rules then needed on playing a spell

    Putting a card into play through an ability does not use this proccess (although activating the ability itself does)
  • #20
    Yeah, you guys were right, that's a shame. Anyway, i still think onslaught has a place on the deck.

    Copyright: yeah, too much, i couldn't even find out where is the rule about what i want. You just copyied everything...lol, next time, send me the rules book...lol Wink (thanks anyway for trying to explain)

    I'll post again the deck i'm playing, just to make it easier to look at it.

    Halted Asylum's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    LANDS (22)
    4 Balduvian Trading Post
    18 Mountain

    CREATURES (22)
    4 Anaba Ancestor
    4 Minotaur Explorer
    4 Raging Minotaur
    4 Talruum Minotaur
    4 Anaba Spirit Crafter
    2 Tahngarth, Talruum Hero

    OTHERS (16)
    4 Onslaught
    4 Fervor
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 O-Naginata



    I have 2 options for others:

    1) Onslaught, Fervor, Lightning Bolt and O-Naginata. Fav: Haste and Tap combo Cons: Creatures with higher cost to cast.
    2) Didgeridoo, Incinerate, Lightning Bolt and O-Naginata. Fav: Able to cast all Minotaurs earlier, and fast burning Cons: Can't handle higher blockers

    Which one is better?
    Last edited by Halted Asylum: 5/10/2007 11:01:27 PM
    "Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
  • #21
    I'm glad to see you put Raging and Talruum Minotaurs in there, there 2 of the better Minotaurs IMO. Instead of Fervor I'd like to see some Lightning Greaves in there. You already have 8 Haste creatures, Fervor seems like a bit of overkill. Also I really like the Didgeridoos in your deck, it speeds up the deck and allows for some surprise blockers. Maybe Violent Eruption could find a home in this deck for it's ability to remove multiple creatures. With 12 4cc creatures and 2 5cc I think the deck needs 23 lands. While O-Naginata is a pretty tight card it doesn't address the needs of your 2 weakest creatures, Anaba Ancestor or Anaba Spirit Crafter. Maybe Bonesplitter can be of service in this regard.
  • #23
    I like option 2 better since you can always cast the minotaurs at EOT so it is like they have haste. I would slightly ammend option 2 to be 3 O-Naginata and 1 mountain. 23 lands feels better for the deck...especially since your trading post is making you sacrifice lands.
    people assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff

    Ebay - decks/MODO/Promos/DVDs

    Trade thread (WiP)
    http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/337-pokerbob1s-casual-trading-emporium
  • #24
    Thanks Mantle Denizen, a perfect add for my deck, another great contribution (as you always do). Lightning Greaves are alot better than Fervor, and fit's very well on my purpose. Also i agree about raising the lands count even to 24, cutting 1 of each artifact.

    I think Violent Eruption is a great card, but the real problem for this deck, is the early game, since, as you said, most of my creatures are 4cc+. So cards like Lightning Bolt help alot this deck.

    Pokerbob1: Thanks, i'm leaning to O-Naginata too, and i'll raise the land count to 24. About Didgeridoo, my concern is about later match-ups against big creatures with vigilance, a creature that, even with my creatures with haste, won't let them pass, neither can do enough damage to kill. My only option is to tap it. But i'll probably place it in MD.

    Now the other artifact is really a hard time to make a decision, these are the ones i'm looking at:

    cast/equip (cost)

    1/1 Bonesplitter: +2 (cheap, can be cast fast and equip early creatures)
    1/2 O-Naginata: +3 and Trample (most creatures that i'll use to attack have 3)
    2/3 No-Dachi: +2 and First Strike (improve alot the +1 given by Spirit Crafter, since most of my creatures don't die when a face higher creatures.)
    3/3 Loxodon Warhammer: +3, trample, lifelink (hardcast, but game disrupting)

    Now, i'm thinking, which one is better?
    Last edited by Halted Asylum: 5/11/2007 1:34:49 PM
    "Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
  • #25
    Quote from Halted Asylum
    My only option is to tap it.


    onslaught is just not that good in a deck where a big focus is to cheat creatures into play (didgeridoo)...

    here's some ideas:

    "kill the creature" = fissure

    -or-

    "tap the creature" = icy manipulator (even taps Akroma, Angel of Wrath... which onslaught can't do)
    "Set the demons free and watch 'em fly!" - Gene Simmons / KISS
  • #26
    Quote from twig78
    onslaught is just not that good in a deck where a big focus is to cheat creatures into play (didgeridoo)...


    That's partially true. Indeed, if you use didgeridoo, it isn't good use Onslaught on the deck.

    But you can, as well, change the focus of the deck, and run a smooth mana curve creatures (even more if improved with haste) like an typical aggro deck, with a haste free damage; and about dealing with larger creatures later, you can add some artifact to that creature hit harder, like the ones previously posted, besides the direct damage of Lightning Bolt.

    Both strategies work, surely on the second option, you must have some 3 drops to don't break the creature drop. But, go for some test, and you'll see that it works as well as with didgeridoo. is just another approch of the deck.

    I think both cards you mentioned are cool, but just Icy Manipulator fit on the deck. As i mentioned above, later game, with the cards on it, you can deal with it, the only problem is that early drops just screw you, since you're creatures are not the best ones, so you have to compensate this quality with some destruction, early removal, like Isamaru, Hound of Konda.

    I figured out the mono-red deck can't deal with Akroma, Angel of Wrath, not even Fissure can target it, since it has protection from red, the only options i found out are Goblin War Drums and Demoralize, at least to don't be blocked by it.

    Anyway, Akroma is not in the lists i'm facing right now, the most common match-ups, in my case, are tribal wars (Goblins, Zombies, Elves, Barbarians, en-Kors, Ninjas, Samurais, Rats, Illusions, and so on...).

    Also considering Coat of Arms.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Halted Asylum: 5/11/2007 11:23:26 PM
    "Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
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