I enjoyed reading Prid3's Mono black Update thread, lots of interesting ideas for decks in there. Today I would like to refocus on an old favorite Mono Black Devotion with our good friend Gray Merchant of Asphodel
One of my biggest issues with multiplayer decks is I get focused on a deck, then somehow start adding elements of another deck to it, often trying to do too much. I play in a pretty creature heavy meta so my card choices may vary slightly from what you would play.
It's obviously a land and creature dominated build. I can easily change that. I own most format staples so making swaps is relatively painless for me.
One of my concerns is that I am all in and don't have any interaction, that probably needs to change a bit, suggestions?
Another concern I have is the cat combo. Perhaps this isn't the deck for it and I have fallen victim to two competing strategies.
I want to play my Phyrexian Obliterator as well as Nightmare Shepherd Other than that, I am pretty much open to ideas so long as they aren't completely focused on zombies as I already have a zombie deck I love to play.
I recommend replacing Viscera Seer with Dark Ritual and swapping 2x Midnight Reaper for Woe Strider. I'd also remove 1-2 four drops in favor of Bolas's Citadel or any other bomby finisher. Liliana, Dreadhorde General, Grave Titan, something silly that can end games should you get Wrathed to oblivion. Alternatively I don't hate removing the cat combo (it's very hit-or-miss) for Dark Ritual, 2 finishers and 2 removal spells like Defile so that would be an equally valid substitution. Viscera Seer + Bolas's Citadel is an absolute powerhouse combo that can enabler you to rip through your entire deck so I definitely don't mind keeping those in.
I like alot of these changes. The cat combo easily feels like it can be an aristocrats build so removing those 8 cards feels right.
Dark Ritual in to speed up the deck a bit Bolas's Citadel feels like an intelligent card to make the best use of the life gain
I do love Defile but I wonder if a couple copies of toxic deluge is a better idea? I know it hits my stuff too
Woe Strider feels "so-so" to me. I have read the card multiple times, what am I missing here? Midnight Reaper does lose a little of its lustre removing the cat combo
Is it worth playing any copies of other utility black lands?
I wonder if a couple copies of toxic deluge is a better idea?
It's worth testing. You could also try fewer Fenlurkers and more Tymaret, Chosen from Death since he survives Deluge fairly well and GY hate is almost always relevant in MP.
Woe Strider feels "so-so" to me. I have read the card multiple times, what am I missing here?
1. He's a sac outlet for the Fenlurker -> Sac Outlet -> Shepherd -> Gary combo which is where most of our wins come from.
2. You almost always immediately sac to goat to dig for lands 4/5 and he always gives you a Scry whereas Reaper doesn't.
3. Scry Engines are completely and utterly bonkers with Bolas's Citadel Scrying away dead lands and such.
4. He's a turn 1/3 play that's resilient to removal.
5. Removal is good against this deck and we typically have very little-if-any recursion so the Escape clause is relevant.
Is it worth playing any copies of other utility black lands?
The more that I play with 4x Castle Locthwain the less that I find myself playing anything other than basic Swamps. At this point I refuse to play ETB lands like Leechridden Swamp and I no longer have cards like Exsanguinate to abuse Nykthos/Coffers. I do still play 1x Volrath's Stronghold though but I also play 25-26 lands so I play it over a spell. I've never won a game where I've missed my 3rd/4th land drop and flooding doesn't scare me given that I'm more than happy to draw 8 lands and double activate Castles later on if needed.
It's worth testing. You could also try fewer Fenlurkers and more Tymaret, Chosen from Death since he survives Deluge fairly well and GY hate is almost always relevant in MP.
I guess the GY hate is relevant since I am not running bojuka Bog, the Kardashian butt is nice early.I think 2 copies feels right
Quote from from Prid3 »
1. He's a sac outlet for the Fenlurker -> Sac Outlet -> Shepherd -> Gary combo which is where most of our wins come from.
2. You almost always immediately sac to goat to dig for lands 4/5 and he always gives you a Scry whereas Reaper doesn't.
3. Scry Engines are completely and utterly bonkers with Bolas's Citadel Scrying away dead lands and such.
4. He's a turn 1/3 play that's resilient to removal.
5. Removal is good against this deck and we typically have very little-if-any recursion so the Escape clause is relevant.
6. This deck typically wants to Dark RitualAyara, First of Locthwain on turn 1 over its other 3 drops and casting Woe Strider on turn 3 means that you can sac the goat to draw a card while still maintaining your board presence. If you turn 1 Ayara into turn 3 Reaper you have to lose an important threat if you want to see new cards.
I appreciate this analysis. Does this mean Viscera seer is now superfluous and should be removed?
Quote from from Prid3 »
The more that I play with 4x Castle Locthwain the less that I find myself playing anything other than basic Swamps. At this point I refuse to play ETB lands like Leechridden Swamp and I no longer have cards like Exsanguinate to abuse Nykthos/Coffers. I do still play 1x Volrath's Stronghold though but I also play 25-26 lands so I play it over a spell. I've never won a game where I've missed my 3rd/4th land drop and flooding doesn't scare me given that I'm more than happy to draw 8 lands and double activate Castles later on if needed.
Without Exsanguinate this is no longer a "big" mana deck so that makes sense.
Is it worth playing ANY copies of Witch's Cottage in order to have more options of recurring 'X' creature or is it not worth it?
EDIT: Are we diluting the deck by putting so many different cards in it, as in lowering consistency?
Is it worth playing any copies of other utility black lands?
I wanted to quickly touch back on this one because I'm sure that a lot of players out there bought Leyline of the Void and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx at some point in their careers so some of us have the option to add 4x Leyline of the Void and 4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx to our builds for disruption and explosive mana generation. While I"m not expecting the average person to run out and drop $200.00 doing this if you already own the cards this is definitely the best way to build the deck if your meta has any amount of graveyard abuse. The free MP mulligan makes it trivially easy to mull into a Leyline which means that any 2 drop will turn Nykthos into a mana positive play. Eventually you can do stupid things with your mana and that's true even if you don't have Exsanguinate style X spells. The nice thing about this is that it's true for any Leyline in any color so even if you want to play Blue you can do the same thing with Leyline of Anticipation, Witching Well, Omen of the Sea, Thassa's Oracle, etc.
The idea here is your 2 + 3 drops cantrip so that when you play Shepherd on turn 4 you can immediately sac them to draw 2 + Scry 2 into land 5 + Gary. Then you "double Gary" (cast + sac with Shepherd in play) on turn 5 in order to deal 14 damage and gain 42 life or whatever. After that you can Bolas's Citadel most of your deck into play until you either find another Gary or activate the Citadel for the kill. This showcases how turn 1 Viscera Seer can still be amazing if you have enough ways to abuse it. This deck is night-and-day different in power-level depending on whether you get that turn 1 Seer or not.
Is it worth playing ANY copies of Witch's Cottage in order to have more options of recurring 'X' creature or is it not worth it?
I wouldn't advocate playing more than 1 and I personally play 0. It's a strictly worse Swamp a big enough % of the time to offset its potential value as a recursion spell. I prefer Witch's Cottage in slower Control decks with Fetchlands because then I can play something like Sepulchral Primordial and even if it dies I can fetch out my 4x Witch's Cottage to continually recur it as needed. I don't like them in decks that need to curve out on turns 2-5 because it's so often a Guildgate. Still, the nice thing about Witch's Cottage is that it's cheap. If you buy 4, play them and realize that you hate them then you're out a buck or whatever. Or 0 cents if you grab them from ToE Draft chaff. So there's no harm in testing them yourself if you're interested in the effect.
Are we diluting the deck by putting so many different cards in it, as in lowering consistency?
I guess I'm used to drawing + scrying into a ton of extra cards every game which makes it easier to find the effects that I need when I need them. "A lack of focus" hasn't historically been an issue for me when playing devotion decks.
I should also probably note that where you suggested Toxic Deluge I would play Pestilence. They're different effects, Deluge is significantly more powerful in a vacuum and you already have a ton of 4s but this is easily the best archetype for the card so I like to play some copies every now and then. Though I guess it's a massive nonbo with Obliterator so that doesn't work for your build.
One last thing about the mana is that if you do run Defile and Castle Locthwain then the optimal build replaces a Swamp with an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Not necessary by any means but play it if you have it.
Thanks for all the suggestions folks, here is the updated list that I will play on the weekend barring any glaring issues. Pains me to take out Kalitas, but I will just slot him into my vampire build
Jammed 5 games with the deck last night. It performed well enough without living the dream (Shepherd - Gary - sac Gary - Token Gary). Leyline of the void was an allstar and I opened with it turn one in 4/5 games. It allows for some sick plays in terms of devotion. Nykthos, Shrine to nyx is disgusting but the deck can still easily win without it. 2/2 split with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth Yarok's Fenlurker was at its best being recycled via Volrath's Stronghold but 4 copies is too many - shave some as needed Woe Strider was fine if unspectacular. It never escaped. I could see a 2/2 split with Viscera Seer. Bolas's Citadel never got to live the dream since I never drew it and had one rot in my hand due to mana screw.
Defile wasn't so much of a let down as it was very situational. We don't drop lands quick enough for it to matter against Eldrazi Titans, Progenitus, blightsteel or creatures with 7 toughness. I would rather not over commit and play sweepers such as Damnation or Toxic Deluge
and then rebuild my board. That being said, I had a timely defile with 6 swamps out that did change the outcome of a game by removing a key threat before it could take over the board.
Never saw Ayara or Tymaret. I really drew the same 5 hands each game, which included obliterators and dark rituals.
This deck needs to be played some more if only for a bit of variation in starting hands.
Re-reading what I wrote I realize I was on two trains of thought. I was lumping too many different creatures together and now look foolish. I guess what I was trying to say more than anything else is Defile works if you need to spot remove small to medium creatures. It's not good at removing creatures with 7 toughness or more because we don't drop lands as quick enough to make it worthwhile. Obviously stuff with protection isn't going to fly with any targeting spell.
Cards like In Garruk's Wake are too slow for anything other than budget decks. I already own damnation and Toxic Deluge and will test both of those cards next time. If I am sweeping the board in a devotion deck, I am probably losing anyways, so maybe it doesn't really matter. In reality, I should probably just jam a couple of copies Innocent blood or exsanguinate and call it a day.
Alas, gone are the simple days of O-ring and bounce shenanigans. My meta plays too much enchantment removal making cards like Oubliette temporary at best.
Appreciate the suggestions, more than anything, I was really just giving a small anecdotal report of the testing of a few new cards in my particular devotion shell and meta....cheers!
I don't mind Oath of Liliana nor Plaguecrafter. One of my favorite things to do post-Nightmare Shepherd is to cast Plaguecrafter, sac itself, recur it as a 1/1 and then sac itself again. Aka 3 mana "each opponent sacs 2 creatures." That might be more of what you're looking for if people are casting Eldrazi and Blightsteel Colossi. Note that even if people don't have creatures to sac they still lose 2 cards which is often back-breaking if you already cast + sac'd a Yarok's Fenlurker with a Nightmare Shepherd in play. Nightmare Shepherd is a ridonkulous Magic card that takes over the game unless its removed.
I don't mind Oath of Liliana nor Plaguecrafter. One of my favorite things to do post-Nightmare Shepherd is to cast Plaguecrafter, sac itself, recur it as a 1/1 and then sac itself again. Aka 3 mana "each opponent sacs 2 creatures." That might be more of what you're looking for if people are casting Eldrazi and Blightsteel Colossi. Note that even if people don't have creatures to sac they still lose 2 cards which is often back-breaking if you already cast + sac'd a Yarok's Fenlurker with a Nightmare Shepherd in play. Nightmare Shepherd is a ridonkulous Magic card that takes over the game unless its removed.
It used to be considered that Oath of liliana was the best of these types of cards for devotion because it left one black pip behind. With the printing of Nightmare shepherd I believe Plaguecrafter has usurped that role in all builds EXCEPT zombies, where fleshbag marauder still reigns supreme.
It used to be considered that Oath of liliana was the best of these types of cards for devotion because it left one black pip behind. With the printing of Nightmare shepherd I believe Plaguecrafter has usurped that role in all builds EXCEPT zombies, where fleshbag marauder still reigns supreme.
I played the deck some more this weekend. The substitution I made was taking out defile for a more defined piece of removal in Dismember. Not sure what to think. In one game, dismember trashed Phyrexian Obliterator and defile would not have been enough at the time. In a later game, dismember would not have been enough to remove a Reaper from the abyss whereas if it had been defile because it was late game, it would have. Meta call I guess.
Finally saw some different hands. I certainly didn't win every game, but I was competitive in all and that is pretty much what we ask for from our decks. Sometimes you just can't drain the table fast enough and then people drop battlecruiser and well, all the lifegain the world isn't going to repel that kind of firepower. Plus devotion decks tend to draw the ire of the table. Plaguecrafter saw action and it definitely pulled its weight, great suggestion Prid3. Like any card with an ETB ability, it's at its peak when we have an active Nightmare shepherd.
Nightmare shepherd The more I play this card, the more I realize how awesome it is. Even without an active sac outlet, you can now block as you wish with other creatures just to have them die and double up on their ETB abilities. I really appreciate the flying ability on the card as well. I used to play Batman but Sexy Villain has pretty much rendered her obsolete in this build, so having a flier helps keep people at bay, at least in the early to mid game.
Nightmare shepherd The more I play this card, the more I realize how awesome it is.
Agreed. There's already some good "ramp" 4 drops in the form of Crypt Ghast and K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth but having more options never hurts . This gives the deck an entirely new synergy/combo axis that it was previously lacking.
This is a Mono-Black-Devotion-Deck that Prid3 helped me build a couple of years back. It still works pretty good in my Group. I'm just wondering if any of you think that there is need of an upgrade, for example putting in some new Erebos-Cars. I'm also very much intreagued by Bolas's Citadel.
I highly recommend "fixing" your 2-3 drops. Your 2 drops should be things like Yarok's Fenlurker or Gifted Aetherborn if you need an anti-aggro option. Your 3 drops should be things like Phyrexian Arena (which you have, and that's good), Oath of Liliana and Ayara, First of Locthwain. Things like Nantuko Shade, Gatekeeper of Malakir and Nighthawk are relics of the past.
What does "Erebos-Cars" mean? I do like playing 1x Erebos, God of the Dead and 1x Erebos, Bleak-Hearted in these decks because having an indestructible beater/blocker that provides card advantage is amazing in protracted games.
For removal I'm a fan of Defile as the new de factoDoomblade. I'd play 4 of those over Dismembers/GftTs.
Alright thanks for the help as always. Here's what I came up with. I wanted to incluede Nightmare Shepherd, since you were all gushing about it. So I'm now down to 2 Phyrexian Obliterators. I hope you think thats ok. In my experience, they are always removed pretty fast anyways.
Personally, I haven't put Obliterator in a deck in years so I'm more than ok with shaving their numbers.
Quoting Prid3 but the comment is directed more at Murx:
If you don't own them, don't go out and buy them unless you have cash to burn. The card isn't mandatory for the deck by any stretch as black has lots of good 4 drops that one can play instead. Let's not kid ourselves though, in some metas, the card just wrecks tables and in others, it just dies with little benefit (it's never ZERO benefit because it means someone used removal on your card and something else of yours has a better chance of living).
I play it because I OWN them. I play in a creature heavy meta, the card is positioned well in a devotion shell, the art and flavor are also bad-ass.
One of my biggest issues with multiplayer decks is I get focused on a deck, then somehow start adding elements of another deck to it, often trying to do too much. I play in a pretty creature heavy meta so my card choices may vary slightly from what you would play.
16x Swamp
4x Castle Locthwain
4x Leechridden Swamp
Spells (39)
4x Cauldron Familiar
4x Viscera Seer
4x Yarok's Fenlurker
3x Ayara, First of Locthwain
4x Midnight Reaper
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4x Nightmare Shepherd
4x Phyrexian Obliterator
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Witch's Oven
2x Grave Pact
It's obviously a land and creature dominated build. I can easily change that. I own most format staples so making swaps is relatively painless for me.
One of my concerns is that I am all in and don't have any interaction, that probably needs to change a bit, suggestions?
Another concern I have is the cat combo. Perhaps this isn't the deck for it and I have fallen victim to two competing strategies.
I want to play my Phyrexian Obliterator as well as Nightmare Shepherd Other than that, I am pretty much open to ideas so long as they aren't completely focused on zombies as I already have a zombie deck I love to play.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Dark Ritual in to speed up the deck a bit
Bolas's Citadel feels like an intelligent card to make the best use of the life gain
I do love Defile but I wonder if a couple copies of toxic deluge is a better idea? I know it hits my stuff too
Woe Strider feels "so-so" to me. I have read the card multiple times, what am I missing here? Midnight Reaper does lose a little of its lustre removing the cat combo
Is it worth playing any copies of other utility black lands?
It's worth testing. You could also try fewer Fenlurkers and more Tymaret, Chosen from Death since he survives Deluge fairly well and GY hate is almost always relevant in MP.
1. He's a sac outlet for the Fenlurker -> Sac Outlet -> Shepherd -> Gary combo which is where most of our wins come from.
2. You almost always immediately sac to goat to dig for lands 4/5 and he always gives you a Scry whereas Reaper doesn't.
3. Scry Engines are completely and utterly bonkers with Bolas's Citadel Scrying away dead lands and such.
4. He's a turn 1/3 play that's resilient to removal.
5. Removal is good against this deck and we typically have very little-if-any recursion so the Escape clause is relevant.
The more that I play with 4x Castle Locthwain the less that I find myself playing anything other than basic Swamps. At this point I refuse to play ETB lands like Leechridden Swamp and I no longer have cards like Exsanguinate to abuse Nykthos/Coffers. I do still play 1x Volrath's Stronghold though but I also play 25-26 lands so I play it over a spell. I've never won a game where I've missed my 3rd/4th land drop and flooding doesn't scare me given that I'm more than happy to draw 8 lands and double activate Castles later on if needed.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
‘Nuff said.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
I guess the GY hate is relevant since I am not running bojuka Bog, the Kardashian butt is nice early.I think 2 copies feels right
I appreciate this analysis. Does this mean Viscera seer is now superfluous and should be removed?
Without Exsanguinate this is no longer a "big" mana deck so that makes sense.
Is it worth playing ANY copies of Witch's Cottage in order to have more options of recurring 'X' creature or is it not worth it?
EDIT: Are we diluting the deck by putting so many different cards in it, as in lowering consistency?
I wanted to quickly touch back on this one because I'm sure that a lot of players out there bought Leyline of the Void and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx at some point in their careers so some of us have the option to add 4x Leyline of the Void and 4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx to our builds for disruption and explosive mana generation. While I"m not expecting the average person to run out and drop $200.00 doing this if you already own the cards this is definitely the best way to build the deck if your meta has any amount of graveyard abuse. The free MP mulligan makes it trivially easy to mull into a Leyline which means that any 2 drop will turn Nykthos into a mana positive play. Eventually you can do stupid things with your mana and that's true even if you don't have Exsanguinate style X spells. The nice thing about this is that it's true for any Leyline in any color so even if you want to play Blue you can do the same thing with Leyline of Anticipation, Witching Well, Omen of the Sea, Thassa's Oracle, etc.
Depends. The card can still be really good. I like playing a combo version of this deck with:
4x Dusk Legion Zealot
4x Phyrexian Rager
4x Nightmare Shepherd
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2x Bolas's Citadel
The idea here is your 2 + 3 drops cantrip so that when you play Shepherd on turn 4 you can immediately sac them to draw 2 + Scry 2 into land 5 + Gary. Then you "double Gary" (cast + sac with Shepherd in play) on turn 5 in order to deal 14 damage and gain 42 life or whatever. After that you can Bolas's Citadel most of your deck into play until you either find another Gary or activate the Citadel for the kill. This showcases how turn 1 Viscera Seer can still be amazing if you have enough ways to abuse it. This deck is night-and-day different in power-level depending on whether you get that turn 1 Seer or not.
I wouldn't advocate playing more than 1 and I personally play 0. It's a strictly worse Swamp a big enough % of the time to offset its potential value as a recursion spell. I prefer Witch's Cottage in slower Control decks with Fetchlands because then I can play something like Sepulchral Primordial and even if it dies I can fetch out my 4x Witch's Cottage to continually recur it as needed. I don't like them in decks that need to curve out on turns 2-5 because it's so often a Guildgate. Still, the nice thing about Witch's Cottage is that it's cheap. If you buy 4, play them and realize that you hate them then you're out a buck or whatever. Or 0 cents if you grab them from ToE Draft chaff. So there's no harm in testing them yourself if you're interested in the effect.
I guess I'm used to drawing + scrying into a ton of extra cards every game which makes it easier to find the effects that I need when I need them. "A lack of focus" hasn't historically been an issue for me when playing devotion decks.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
One last thing about the mana is that if you do run Defile and Castle Locthwain then the optimal build replaces a Swamp with an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Not necessary by any means but play it if you have it.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
it keeps ***** off you, especially if you drop 1 of those early in a multiplayer game
Also has lifegain for cards like Bolas's Citadel, has a big butt for cards like Crypt Rats, Toxic Deluge and Pestilence, is a vampire if you decide to build a Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord tribal version of the deck with Champion of Dusk, etc.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
15x Swamp
4x Castle Locthwain
2x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Volrath's Stronghold
2x Tymaret, Chosen from Death
4x Yarok's Fenlurker
3x Ayara, First of Locthwain
2x Midnight Reaper
4x Woe Strider
4x Nightmare Shepherd
4x Phyrexian Obliterator
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Dark Ritual
2x Defile
2x Bolas's Citadel
4x leyline of the void
Leyline of the void was an allstar and I opened with it turn one in 4/5 games. It allows for some sick plays in terms of devotion.
Nykthos, Shrine to nyx is disgusting but the deck can still easily win without it. 2/2 split with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Yarok's Fenlurker was at its best being recycled via Volrath's Stronghold but 4 copies is too many - shave some as needed
Woe Strider was fine if unspectacular. It never escaped. I could see a 2/2 split with Viscera Seer.
Bolas's Citadel never got to live the dream since I never drew it and had one rot in my hand due to mana screw.
Defile wasn't so much of a let down as it was very situational. We don't drop lands quick enough for it to matter against Eldrazi Titans, Progenitus, blightsteel or creatures with 7 toughness. I would rather not over commit and play sweepers such as Damnation or Toxic Deluge
and then rebuild my board. That being said, I had a timely defile with 6 swamps out that did change the outcome of a game by removing a key threat before it could take over the board.
Never saw Ayara or Tymaret. I really drew the same 5 hands each game, which included obliterators and dark rituals.
This deck needs to be played some more if only for a bit of variation in starting hands.
Re-reading what I wrote I realize I was on two trains of thought. I was lumping too many different creatures together and now look foolish. I guess what I was trying to say more than anything else is Defile works if you need to spot remove small to medium creatures. It's not good at removing creatures with 7 toughness or more because we don't drop lands as quick enough to make it worthwhile. Obviously stuff with protection isn't going to fly with any targeting spell.
Cards like In Garruk's Wake are too slow for anything other than budget decks. I already own damnation and Toxic Deluge and will test both of those cards next time. If I am sweeping the board in a devotion deck, I am probably losing anyways, so maybe it doesn't really matter. In reality, I should probably just jam a couple of copies Innocent blood or exsanguinate and call it a day.
Alas, gone are the simple days of O-ring and bounce shenanigans. My meta plays too much enchantment removal making cards like Oubliette temporary at best.
Appreciate the suggestions, more than anything, I was really just giving a small anecdotal report of the testing of a few new cards in my particular devotion shell and meta....cheers!
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
It used to be considered that Oath of liliana was the best of these types of cards for devotion because it left one black pip behind. With the printing of Nightmare shepherd I believe Plaguecrafter has usurped that role in all builds EXCEPT zombies, where fleshbag marauder still reigns supreme.
My thoughts exactly .
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Finally saw some different hands. I certainly didn't win every game, but I was competitive in all and that is pretty much what we ask for from our decks. Sometimes you just can't drain the table fast enough and then people drop battlecruiser and well, all the lifegain the world isn't going to repel that kind of firepower. Plus devotion decks tend to draw the ire of the table. Plaguecrafter saw action and it definitely pulled its weight, great suggestion Prid3. Like any card with an ETB ability, it's at its peak when we have an active Nightmare shepherd.
Nightmare shepherd The more I play this card, the more I realize how awesome it is. Even without an active sac outlet, you can now block as you wish with other creatures just to have them die and double up on their ETB abilities. I really appreciate the flying ability on the card as well. I used to play Batman but Sexy Villain has pretty much rendered her obsolete in this build, so having a flier helps keep people at bay, at least in the early to mid game.
Why aren't you playing Dark Betrayal instead smh.
Agreed. There's already some good "ramp" 4 drops in the form of Crypt Ghast and K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth but having more options never hurts . This gives the deck an entirely new synergy/combo axis that it was previously lacking.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
What do you think?
2 Cabal Coffers
2 Leechridden Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
15 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
//Artifacts
1 Whip of Erebos
//Enchantments
1 Animate Dead
2 Bloodchief Ascension
1 Phyrexian Arena
2 Dark Ritual
1 Dismember
3 Go for the Throat
//Sorceries
1 Decree of Pain
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Exsanguinate
//Creatures
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Dimir House Guard
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
3 Nantuko Shade
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Sepulchral Primordial
2 Vampire Nighthawk
I highly recommend "fixing" your 2-3 drops. Your 2 drops should be things like Yarok's Fenlurker or Gifted Aetherborn if you need an anti-aggro option. Your 3 drops should be things like Phyrexian Arena (which you have, and that's good), Oath of Liliana and Ayara, First of Locthwain. Things like Nantuko Shade, Gatekeeper of Malakir and Nighthawk are relics of the past.
What does "Erebos-Cars" mean? I do like playing 1x Erebos, God of the Dead and 1x Erebos, Bleak-Hearted in these decks because having an indestructible beater/blocker that provides card advantage is amazing in protracted games.
For removal I'm a fan of Defile as the new de facto Doomblade. I'd play 4 of those over Dismembers/GftTs.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
2 Cabal Coffers
2 Castle Locthwain
4 Marsh Flats
15 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
//Spells
2 Bloodchief Ascension
2 Dark Ritual
4 Defile
1 Animate Dead
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Exsanguinate
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Bolas's Citadel
1 Decree of Pain
2 Gifted Aetherborn
3 Yarok's Fenlurker
2 Ayara, First of Locthwain
1 Erebos, Bleak-Hearted
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Nightmare Shepherd
2 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Sepulchral Primordial
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Quoting Prid3 but the comment is directed more at Murx:
If you don't own them, don't go out and buy them unless you have cash to burn. The card isn't mandatory for the deck by any stretch as black has lots of good 4 drops that one can play instead. Let's not kid ourselves though, in some metas, the card just wrecks tables and in others, it just dies with little benefit (it's never ZERO benefit because it means someone used removal on your card and something else of yours has a better chance of living).
I play it because I OWN them. I play in a creature heavy meta, the card is positioned well in a devotion shell, the art and flavor are also bad-ass.
Card is definitely a meta call