Looking to build a deck that matches the description. I'd like to keep it one or two colors. I've never attempted to build on such a small budget before. I usually pick a card and build around that so this is a new approach for me. Is there a color or color combos that are easier to build to budget? I've started looking through the cards listed in this thread http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/casual-multiplayer-formats/multiplayer/650020-the-best-multiplayer-cards-available but like I said I've never taken this approach before so I'd love some advice. I'll update as I find cards I'm interested in.
Okay so after some digging and basically ripping other people's ideas off this is what I'm thinking:
I'd love to make room somewhere for some Springleaf Drum / Throne of the God-Pharaoh action but I may be trying to do too much. Also I've been reading about extort in multiplayer is that viable here or again, am I reaching for too much?
8 revival spells is too many. I tend to prefer running 4 alongside 4-6 powerful draw spells such as Syphon Mind. Dark Prophecy is solid too but difficult to cast on turn 3. The problem with running too much revival is that you lose too many games drawing 4-5 lands, 3 revival spells and like 3 threats in the first ~5 turns of the game.
Extort is fantastic in multiplayer and cards like Basilica Screecher are terrific as a result.
I don't actually care for Cartel Aristocrat because it doesn't really do anything. Bloodthrone Vampire can legitimately dome people for 20 every now and then and threatens to eat most attackers. Viscera Seer is the most powerful sac outlet but 1 CMC hurts if you run Servitude over Living Death.
Living Death is the single strongest card for this archetype and I recommend investing in them if you can afford it. They're not free by any means but you win so many games off of casting them that it's not even funny. It's difficult to express/conceptualize how much it drains for until you're sitting there with a whack of Blood Artists and Zulaport Cutthroats.
For what it's worth I don't think that White brings much to this archetype and I think that you could something that's basically strictly better along the lines of:
One of my mates pretty much runs this exact deck, but has basic removal in place of Return to the Ranks. I can't remember exactly what he's running as removal, but I'm pretty sure there's a Hero's Downfall or similar 'Walker hate in there, along with something like Mortify.
And yes, Prid3, I'd keep Cartel Aristocrat in - in my mate's deck, it is the lynchpin sac outlet, and it's nigh on impossible to kill off in his deck. You pretty much need to wipe the board to stop him.
He'll often sit and durdle while trying to draw into his next Immortal Servitude, but Dark Prophecy looks a nice touch. That might just work to help draw into solutions.
Also of note is that he runs Dictate of Erebos to really screw people up (but that thing is starting to get expensive, so I wouldn't be surprised if it blows the $40 budget in adding it).
Read here for the viability of Extort in multiplayer (HINT: It's not just viable, it's awesome).
Also of note is that he runs Dictate of Erebos to really screw people up (but that thing is starting to get expensive, so I wouldn't be surprised if it blows the $40 budget in adding it).
Read here for the viability of Extort in multiplayer (HINT: It's not just viable, it's awesome).
Yes that blows the budget. I'm going to look at that thread now.
But looking at things like Basilica Screecher has got me more interested in extort. What're your thoughts?
My thoughts on the subject are quite basic actually. Extort is an extremely powerful multiplayer mechanic as long as you have the mana to support it and since Crypt Ghast is cheap and ludicrously overpowered that's not much of a cost. It's trivially easy to support mana intensive mechanics when that's your 4 drop of choice and the drain goes a long way to keeping you alive while pressuring your adversaries. Untapping with ~10 mana on turn 5 is utterly bonkers since you can simply chain spells + Extorts from there on out until you win. Moreover, mass lifegain enables you to play with busted draw spells such as Necrologia that literally read "draw 10 cards" at no significant cost. 10 life hurts in a normal game, no questions there, but when you're draining people en masse it's trivial. As such I have no qualms starting decks with cards like Exsanguinate, Crypt Ghast and Gray Merchant of Asphodel that provide me with obscene quantities of drain while seeking to abuse my health total as much as possible with various Necropotence-esque effects.
One thing to note is that mass revival decks need card draw. I've foolishly build and played decks in the past with millions of Living Deaths but it doesn't work. Those kinds of cards need a critical mass of fodder to fuel them and you will have miserable games if you try and overload on the revival aspect. That's why I vastly prefer builds that have at least 4 extremely powerful draw spells to support them. Again, the easy go-to is Syphon Mind since it's cheap and foots the bill but if your games are big enough and you're able to Extort enough then Necrologia style cards are bombtastic. You can literally do things like draw 10-15 cards, discard most of them to hand size and then follow up with a Immortal Servitude or whatever for the win. The gameplan just doesn't work unless you have that mass card draw in my experience.
Been talking to my play group and they want to shoot for single color $40. So if I drop white and stick with Extort I'm looking at the following list. I am concerned however about the viability of Immortal Servitude but I do have some wiggle room on budget TCGPlayer (we're using that as our price guide) puts this at like $31
Been talking to my play group and they want to shoot for single color $40. So if I drop white and stick with Extort I'm looking at the following list. I am concerned however about the viability of Immortal Servitude but I do have some wiggle room on budget TCGPlayer (we're using that as our price guide) puts this at like $31
I'd love to make that work though. I really like the idea of just relentlessly saccing and rezzing my little chumps and let that be the frustration my opponents face. The fact that nothing stays gone. With life gain / extort as a survival tactic.
Maybe swap out some of the bigger guys for Bloodthrone Vampire or some other nice 2CMCs
You want good black 2-drops, and you're doing sacrifice work?
Sounds like a job for Abyssal Gatekeeper...
I disagree. That card is only useful in "creatureless" decks as a means of dissuading aggression. It enables you to curve out with things like Innocent Blood and Fleshbag Marauder to keep the field clear early on without going (significantly) down on cards because you're never losing anything yourself. That being said it's legitimately awful when your deck is actively trying to build a board because it's almost always going to 2-for-1 yourself. That's why you'll only see me recommend it in spell-heavy decks that don't use many creatures. It's a great card, don't get me wrong, but it's also extremely niche.
You want good black 2-drops, and you're doing sacrifice work?
Sounds like a job for Abyssal Gatekeeper...
I disagree. That card is only useful in "creatureless" decks as a means of dissuading aggression. It enables you to curve out with things like Innocent Blood and Fleshbag Marauder to keep the field clear early on without going (significantly) down on cards because you're never losing anything yourself. That being said it's legitimately awful when your deck is actively trying to build a board because it's almost always going to 2-for-1 yourself. That's why you'll only see me recommend it in spell-heavy decks that don't use many creatures. It's a great card, don't get me wrong, but it's also extremely niche.
Fair points. I mean, Bloodghast would probably be the gold standard as a 2-drop here, but it's $8+.
Maybe Pack Rat, then? I've had good times with that thing...
At this point I'm willing to scrap the ideas in the thread for the meanest possible $40 deck that is still fun to play and play against. I don't need to stomp everyone into the ground but I really like to manipulate the board.
I was thinking about Lord of the Void in place of Sepulchral Primordial but I'm worried that would be less consistent. Thoughts on that? Also any suggestions for improvements on the Oaths?
On Oath vs Reaper:
I’d say run something cheap. Not the demon. Plus the oath (or other sacrifice options) circumnavigates both hexproof and indestructible. In my meta that’s really important.
On reanimation:
Primordial is fun, swingy and one mana cheaper.
However... are you sure you want to run cards that reanimate other peoples creatures? Shouldn’t you reanimate yours? Or maybe both?
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My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
I think I'll stick with Primordial over LotV. Any suggestions on better cheap reanimation?
A quick search for replacements on the Oath I've come up with the following: Consuming Vapors, Geth's Verdict, Diabolic Edict (which might put me over my price).
I wish I could afford some Chainer's Edict. The Oath seems pretty good because it'll catch more than one thing
Lord of the Void is crap. If he dies to removal then you've wasted 7 mana on nothing. Primordial will always force a mass removal spell and typically provides absurd value assuming that you recur creatures with relevant ETB triggers.
I think I'll stick with Primordial over LotV. Any suggestions on better cheap reanimation?
Animate Dead and Dance of the Dead are both extremely powerful and budget-friendly. It doesn't get any better than those. I will happily start any Black deck with 4x Animate Dead in multiplayer.
A quick search for replacements on the Oath I've come up with the following: Consuming Vapors, Geth's Verdict, Diabolic Edict (which might put me over my price).
I wish I could afford some Chainer's Edict. The Oath seems pretty good because it'll catch more than one thing
I'm confused as to why anyone would field "Chainer's Edicts" over Oath in multiplayer. Paying 1 extra mana to neutralize 3 extra creatures and provide an additional Black pip for Gray Merchant is an obscene rate. It's many orders of magnitude more powerful than spot removal-based alternatives. That is, we're not playing Oath because it's cheap, we're playing it because it reads "kill 4 creatures, deal 1-2 damage to each opponent, gain 4-8 life" and that's busted for a 3 mana card. Why would we be remotely interested in a 1-for-1 when we could have a 4-for-1?
Before anyone chimes in with "sometimes you need cheap + flexible answers" that's what Curtains' Call is for. 2 mana kill 2 creatures. Done deal. Doesn't get any better than that. That being said you don't need millions of spot removal spells in multiplayer so there's no need to overload on that type of effect. 4 "double Doom Blades" should suffice.
On reanimation:
Primordial is fun, swingy and one mana cheaper.
However... are you sure you want to run cards that reanimate other peoples creatures? Shouldn’t you reanimate yours? Or maybe both?
Animate Dead and Dance of the Dead are both extremely powerful and budget-friendly. It doesn't get any better than those. I will happily start any Black deck with 4x Animate Dead in multiplayer.
Looks good, but I would cut some of the extra fat and global effects (Screecher, Reclamation, Necrologia, Primordial) for things like Disfigure, Duress, Sign in Blood, Chainer's Edict, Phyrexian Rager, Chittering Rats and Tendrils of Corruption. You want faster cards that offer earlier forms of card advantage. Hymn is fantastic though so be sure to play 4 of those. Mind Twist is also sweet :). Also cut the Leechridden Swamps for regular ones. Speed matters a lot more in 1v1.
Looking to build a deck that matches the description. I'd like to keep it one or two colors. I've never attempted to build on such a small budget before. I usually pick a card and build around that so this is a new approach for me. Is there a color or color combos that are easier to build to budget? I've started looking through the cards listed in this thread http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/casual-multiplayer-formats/multiplayer/650020-the-best-multiplayer-cards-available but like I said I've never taken this approach before so I'd love some advice. I'll update as I find cards I'm interested in.
Okay so after some digging and basically ripping other people's ideas off this is what I'm thinking:
4 Orzhov Basilica
4 Orzhov Guildgate
5 Plains
4 Scoured Barrens
7 Swamp
4 Blood Artist
4 Cartel Aristocrat
2 Skirsdag High Priest
2 Suture Priest
4 Zulaport Cutthroat
3 Grand Abolisher
4 Kalastria Healer
3 Mirror Entity
2 Dark Prophecy
4 Immortal Servitude
4 Return to the Ranks
I'd love to make room somewhere for some Springleaf Drum / Throne of the God-Pharaoh action but I may be trying to do too much. Also I've been reading about extort in multiplayer is that viable here or again, am I reaching for too much?
Extort is fantastic in multiplayer and cards like Basilica Screecher are terrific as a result.
I don't actually care for Cartel Aristocrat because it doesn't really do anything. Bloodthrone Vampire can legitimately dome people for 20 every now and then and threatens to eat most attackers. Viscera Seer is the most powerful sac outlet but 1 CMC hurts if you run Servitude over Living Death.
Living Death is the single strongest card for this archetype and I recommend investing in them if you can afford it. They're not free by any means but you win so many games off of casting them that it's not even funny. It's difficult to express/conceptualize how much it drains for until you're sitting there with a whack of Blood Artists and Zulaport Cutthroats.
For what it's worth I don't think that White brings much to this archetype and I think that you could something that's basically strictly better along the lines of:
20x Swamp
4x Leechridden Swamp
Creatures (28)
4x Thrull Parasite
2x Viscera Seer
4x Basilica Screecher
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
4x Blood Artist
2x Yahenni, Undying Partisan
4x Crypt Ghast
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Syphon Mind
4x Living Death
Not that it has to be that exact list but I don't find that White brings much to the archetype in general. I also enjoy running things like:
20x Swamp
4x Leechridden Swamp
Creatures (26)
4x Vicious Conquistador
4x Pulse Tracker
4x Blood Artist
4x Kalastria Healer
2x Yahenni, Undying Partisan
4x Sanctum Seeker
4x Malakir Bloodwitch
4x Fatal Push
2x Throne of the God-Pharaoh
4x Snuff Out
But Fatal Push could be any cheap removal spell (Deathmark, Doom Blade, Malicious Affliction, Dismember, etc.) including Curtains' Call if your table is big enough. You can also "go big" and add things like Patriarch's Bidding or any other mass revival spell if desired.
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Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
And yes, Prid3, I'd keep Cartel Aristocrat in - in my mate's deck, it is the lynchpin sac outlet, and it's nigh on impossible to kill off in his deck. You pretty much need to wipe the board to stop him.
He'll often sit and durdle while trying to draw into his next Immortal Servitude, but Dark Prophecy looks a nice touch. That might just work to help draw into solutions.
Also of note is that he runs Dictate of Erebos to really screw people up (but that thing is starting to get expensive, so I wouldn't be surprised if it blows the $40 budget in adding it).
Read here for the viability of Extort in multiplayer (HINT: It's not just viable, it's awesome).
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I really like what you're saying here. But Living Death blows out the budget.
But looking at things like Basilica Screecher has got me more interested in extort. What're your thoughts?
Yes that blows the budget. I'm going to look at that thread now.
Gatherer is your friend.
Untapping in monoblack with Crypt Ghast in play is beyond fun...
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
My thoughts on the subject are quite basic actually. Extort is an extremely powerful multiplayer mechanic as long as you have the mana to support it and since Crypt Ghast is cheap and ludicrously overpowered that's not much of a cost. It's trivially easy to support mana intensive mechanics when that's your 4 drop of choice and the drain goes a long way to keeping you alive while pressuring your adversaries. Untapping with ~10 mana on turn 5 is utterly bonkers since you can simply chain spells + Extorts from there on out until you win. Moreover, mass lifegain enables you to play with busted draw spells such as Necrologia that literally read "draw 10 cards" at no significant cost. 10 life hurts in a normal game, no questions there, but when you're draining people en masse it's trivial. As such I have no qualms starting decks with cards like Exsanguinate, Crypt Ghast and Gray Merchant of Asphodel that provide me with obscene quantities of drain while seeking to abuse my health total as much as possible with various Necropotence-esque effects.
One thing to note is that mass revival decks need card draw. I've foolishly build and played decks in the past with millions of Living Deaths but it doesn't work. Those kinds of cards need a critical mass of fodder to fuel them and you will have miserable games if you try and overload on the revival aspect. That's why I vastly prefer builds that have at least 4 extremely powerful draw spells to support them. Again, the easy go-to is Syphon Mind since it's cheap and foots the bill but if your games are big enough and you're able to Extort enough then Necrologia style cards are bombtastic. You can literally do things like draw 10-15 cards, discard most of them to hand size and then follow up with a Immortal Servitude or whatever for the win. The gameplan just doesn't work unless you have that mass card draw in my experience.
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Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
20x Swamp
4x Leechridden Swamp
Creatures (28)
4x Thrull Parasite
2x Viscera Seer
4x Basilica Screecher
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
4x Blood Artist
2x Yahenni, Undying Partisan
4x Crypt Ghast
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Necrologia
4x Immortal Servitude
Servitude would be awful in that deck. Maybe run Exsanguinate, Animate Dead or some removal?
4x Necrologia is a lot. You want to draw 1 but you don't want to flood out on them.
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Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I'd love to make that work though. I really like the idea of just relentlessly saccing and rezzing my little chumps and let that be the frustration my opponents face. The fact that nothing stays gone. With life gain / extort as a survival tactic.
Maybe swap out some of the bigger guys for Bloodthrone Vampire or some other nice 2CMCs
Some others I was considering:
Sounds like a job for Abyssal Gatekeeper...
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I disagree. That card is only useful in "creatureless" decks as a means of dissuading aggression. It enables you to curve out with things like Innocent Blood and Fleshbag Marauder to keep the field clear early on without going (significantly) down on cards because you're never losing anything yourself. That being said it's legitimately awful when your deck is actively trying to build a board because it's almost always going to 2-for-1 yourself. That's why you'll only see me recommend it in spell-heavy decks that don't use many creatures. It's a great card, don't get me wrong, but it's also extremely niche.
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Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Fair points. I mean, Bloodghast would probably be the gold standard as a 2-drop here, but it's $8+.
Maybe Pack Rat, then? I've had good times with that thing...
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We finalized the guidelines last night.
At this point I'm willing to scrap the ideas in the thread for the meanest possible $40 deck that is still fun to play and play against. I don't need to stomp everyone into the ground but I really like to manipulate the board.
24x Swamp
Creatures( (22)
4x Basilica Screecher
4x Gifted Aetherborn
2x Yahenni, Undying Partisan
4x Crypt Ghast
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2x Demon of Dark Schemes
2x Sepulchral Primordial
1x Phyrexian Reclamation
2x Oath of Liliana
4x Syphon Mind
2x Pestilence
1x Necrologia
4x Curtains' Call
Maybe something close to this?
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Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I like it. After cart optimization I had some room so I dropped Demon of Dark Schemes and put in Griselbrand. Do you think it's worth it to go for something a bit cheaper and put in Leechridden Swamp and or Haunted Crossroads? I was also considering Lord of the Void over Griselbrand. Thoughts?
24x Swamp
Creatures( (22)
4x Basilica Screecher
4x Gifted Aetherborn
2x Yahenni, Undying Partisan
4x Crypt Ghast
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2x Griselbrand
2x Sepulchral Primordial
1x Phyrexian Reclamation
2x Oath of Liliana
4x Syphon Mind
2x Pestilence
1x Necrologia
4x Curtains' Call
20x Swamp
4x Leechridden Swamp
Creatures( (22)
4x Basilica Screecher
4x Gifted Aetherborn
2x Yahenni, Undying Partisan
4x Crypt Ghast
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2x Griselbrand
2x Sepulchral Primordial
1x Phyrexian Reclamation
2x Oath of Liliana
4x Syphon Mind
2x Pestilence
1x Necrologia
4x Curtains' Call
Not sure about these Oaths, maybe replace them with something on a stick?
Or something a bit more swingy?
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
I’d say run something cheap. Not the demon. Plus the oath (or other sacrifice options) circumnavigates both hexproof and indestructible. In my meta that’s really important.
On reanimation:
Primordial is fun, swingy and one mana cheaper.
However... are you sure you want to run cards that reanimate other peoples creatures? Shouldn’t you reanimate yours? Or maybe both?
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
A quick search for replacements on the Oath I've come up with the following:
Consuming Vapors, Geth's Verdict, Diabolic Edict (which might put me over my price).
I wish I could afford some Chainer's Edict. The Oath seems pretty good because it'll catch more than one thing
Animate Dead and Dance of the Dead are both extremely powerful and budget-friendly. It doesn't get any better than those. I will happily start any Black deck with 4x Animate Dead in multiplayer.
I'm confused as to why anyone would field "Chainer's Edicts" over Oath in multiplayer. Paying 1 extra mana to neutralize 3 extra creatures and provide an additional Black pip for Gray Merchant is an obscene rate. It's many orders of magnitude more powerful than spot removal-based alternatives. That is, we're not playing Oath because it's cheap, we're playing it because it reads "kill 4 creatures, deal 1-2 damage to each opponent, gain 4-8 life" and that's busted for a 3 mana card. Why would we be remotely interested in a 1-for-1 when we could have a 4-for-1?
Before anyone chimes in with "sometimes you need cheap + flexible answers" that's what Curtains' Call is for. 2 mana kill 2 creatures. Done deal. Doesn't get any better than that. That being said you don't need millions of spot removal spells in multiplayer so there's no need to overload on that type of effect. 4 "double Doom Blades" should suffice.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I guess the swap from Demon of Dark Schemes to Griselbrand limits some of my reanimation targets but with the extra life I can draw more or use Phyrexian Reclamation more. It also makes it safer to slam Pestilence harder.
Also regarding the removal after thinking it over I'm happy with the Oaths
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Doom Blade for Oath of Liliana
Hymn to Tourach for Syphon Mind
Go for the Throat for Curtains' Call
Got any thoughts on this?
20x Swamp
4x Leechridden Swamp
Creatures( (22)
4x Basilica Screecher
4x Gifted Aetherborn
2x Yahenni, Undying Partisan
4x Crypt Ghast
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2x Griselbrand
2x Sepulchral Primordial
1x Phyrexian Reclamation
2x Pestilence
1x Necrologia
2x Doom Blade
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Go for the Throat
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold