Hey all,
I'm looking for criticism on a Thopter Sword deck I now want to build since acquiring some Sword of the Meek. The deck is by no means new or innovative, but I'm a sucker for slow, grindy decks like this one. Anyway, I want to primarily use it in smaller games or even 1 V. 1, but I'd figure I would ask for your advice on getting the amount of removal, card draw, and counter-magic just right, since there are surprisingly few results for "Thopter Sword" on this forum.
Cards I'm still considering are: Baleful Strix, Preordain, more counter-magic, and/or Myr Retriever, but I'm unsure what to remove. Banned cards like Tinker are not an option. Likewise, cards like Academy Ruins are not within my budget.
Out of curiosity is Dig Through Time on the table at all? That opens the door to substantially more options since at that point it makes sense to build around Thought Scour/Mental Note effects instead of regular cantrips and playing 4x DTT. Card is bonkers. Otherwise splashing White for Souls is nonsensical in multiplayer (even in small games) so unless you're going White for things like Plow, Wraths, Breya, etc. then there's no compelling reason to gut the manabase with ETBT nonsense.
Thank you for the quick reply, Prid3. Yes, DTT is on the table, in fact, I already have three. I'm just trying to avoid any outright banned game winning cards, like Tinker. Knowing this, how would it change the way you would build the deck?
I'm just trying to avoid any outright banned game winning cards, like Tinker.
I don't know what that means. DTT is banned in Modern, Legacy, 1v1 MTGO Commander and is restricted in Vintage. It's an oppressive magic card by any reasonable metric.
I don't know what that means. DTT is banned in Modern, Legacy, 1v1 MTGO Commander and is restricted in Vintage. It's an oppressive magic card by any reasonable metric.
What I mean is that even though you're right, DTT is entirely busted, it doesn't win the game immediately in the way that Tinker does or an infinite combo does. Does it win the game? Many times, sure, but it isn't the thing technically winning you the game like a Tinker into Blightsteel is or something like that. So, they don't take much notice of it. Although, now that you've pointed it out to me, I probably won't use it just because they'll probably think that Thopter Sword is broken enough.
What I mean is that even though you're right, DTT is entirely busted, it doesn't win the game immediately in the way that Tinker does or an infinite combo does.
I obviously can't tell/you others how to think but that seems like nonsense to me. DTT is utterly ridonkulous in 2-card combo decks (such as this) since you get to spent your first few turns casting cantrips only to slam a DTT in the midgame to assmble your combo and/or permission to protect it. You say that Tinker wins on the spot but how? Blightsteel? Why can't that be raced or exiled or bounced or sacrificed or stolen or a myriad of other things? Why does that card auto-win games of MP Magic? Assuming that your adversaries have a 2/2 or bigger then it still takes 2 hits to defeat each opponent and plenty of popular interaction spells can smash it. Plow, Cyclonic Rift, Curse of the Swine, Chaos Warp, all of Black's sacrifice effects, all of Blue's mass bounce, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that it's fair, I just personally don't think that DTT is as balanced as you make it sound. In my experience it's heinously oppressive when played a 4-of in dedicated combo decks given that it's (at worst) a bonkers version of Fact or Fiction and at best it's an instant speed, 2 CMC, double Demonic Tutor that ensures a quick and clean combo win with permission backup. Remember, every Thought Scour is essentially a Black Lotus that cantrips when you have 4x Dig Through Time and there's no realistic way for fair colors (White, Red) to compete with the likes of that.
Dig Through Time, like Ancestral Recall, does not put any threats onto the battlefield. They're obviously busted but they only enable. They don't execute. Tinker executes. It's easier to blame someone for winning because just they cast Tinker.
This.
Even so, we all know that DTT is broken as hell, and playing it would just feel too dirty.
On another note, would playing a singleton Aetherling, or another win condition, be bad for those games where I don't draw my combo?
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I'm looking for criticism on a Thopter Sword deck I now want to build since acquiring some Sword of the Meek. The deck is by no means new or innovative, but I'm a sucker for slow, grindy decks like this one. Anyway, I want to primarily use it in smaller games or even 1 V. 1, but I'd figure I would ask for your advice on getting the amount of removal, card draw, and counter-magic just right, since there are surprisingly few results for "Thopter Sword" on this forum.
Cards I'm still considering are: Baleful Strix, Preordain, more counter-magic, and/or Myr Retriever, but I'm unsure what to remove. Banned cards like Tinker are not an option. Likewise, cards like Academy Ruins are not within my budget.
4x Arcane Sanctum
4x Drowned Catacomb
3x Glacial Fortress
8x Island
2x Polluted Delta
5x Swamp
4x Accumulated Knowledge
3x Crux of Fate
3x Fact or Fiction
3x Go for the Throat
3x Innocent Blood
3x Languish
3x Lingering Souls
4x Mana Leak
3x Sword of the Meek
3x Thirst for Knowledge
3x Thopter Foundry
1x Ætherling
6x Island
6x Swamp
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Buried Ruin
2x Polluted Delta
1x Inventors' Fair
4x Baleful Strix
Spells (33)
4x Innocent Blood
4x Preordain
4x Dimir Signet
3x Thopter Foundry
2x Sword of the Meek
2x Counterspell
4x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Languish
2x Fact or Fiction
4x Flex Slots
Out of curiosity is Dig Through Time on the table at all? That opens the door to substantially more options since at that point it makes sense to build around Thought Scour/Mental Note effects instead of regular cantrips and playing 4x DTT. Card is bonkers. Otherwise splashing White for Souls is nonsensical in multiplayer (even in small games) so unless you're going White for things like Plow, Wraths, Breya, etc. then there's no compelling reason to gut the manabase with ETBT nonsense.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I don't know what that means. DTT is banned in Modern, Legacy, 1v1 MTGO Commander and is restricted in Vintage. It's an oppressive magic card by any reasonable metric.
6x Island
5x Swamp
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Buried Ruin
2x Polluted Delta
1x Inventors' Fair
4x Baleful Strix
Spells (34)
4x Thought Scour
4x Preordain
2x Mental Note
2x Innocent Blood
1x Nihil Spellbomb
4x Dimir Signet
3x Thopter Foundry
2x Sword of the Meek
2x Counterspell
2x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Languish
4x Dig Through Time
I'd play something closer to this, give or take the TfKs.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
What I mean is that even though you're right, DTT is entirely busted, it doesn't win the game immediately in the way that Tinker does or an infinite combo does. Does it win the game? Many times, sure, but it isn't the thing technically winning you the game like a Tinker into Blightsteel is or something like that. So, they don't take much notice of it. Although, now that you've pointed it out to me, I probably won't use it just because they'll probably think that Thopter Sword is broken enough.
I obviously can't tell/you others how to think but that seems like nonsense to me. DTT is utterly ridonkulous in 2-card combo decks (such as this) since you get to spent your first few turns casting cantrips only to slam a DTT in the midgame to assmble your combo and/or permission to protect it. You say that Tinker wins on the spot but how? Blightsteel? Why can't that be raced or exiled or bounced or sacrificed or stolen or a myriad of other things? Why does that card auto-win games of MP Magic? Assuming that your adversaries have a 2/2 or bigger then it still takes 2 hits to defeat each opponent and plenty of popular interaction spells can smash it. Plow, Cyclonic Rift, Curse of the Swine, Chaos Warp, all of Black's sacrifice effects, all of Blue's mass bounce, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that it's fair, I just personally don't think that DTT is as balanced as you make it sound. In my experience it's heinously oppressive when played a 4-of in dedicated combo decks given that it's (at worst) a bonkers version of Fact or Fiction and at best it's an instant speed, 2 CMC, double Demonic Tutor that ensures a quick and clean combo win with permission backup. Remember, every Thought Scour is essentially a Black Lotus that cantrips when you have 4x Dig Through Time and there's no realistic way for fair colors (White, Red) to compete with the likes of that.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
This.
Even so, we all know that DTT is broken as hell, and playing it would just feel too dirty.
On another note, would playing a singleton Aetherling, or another win condition, be bad for those games where I don't draw my combo?