So I saw a deck in the color guides that I thought was good but changed up a bit was wanting to hear some opinions or see if I should just use syphon soul again. I used Underworld connections because it still works with eon hub even though it effectively cost 1 mana and 1 life to draw a card. Retreat to hagra seems to drain more than syphon soul but sucks as a late game draw so maybe an even 2/2 split?
Given or take a set of Gonti's Machinations. I realize that I was the person who originally proposed this deck but for what it's worth it was designed something like 10 years ago. We don't really need to use combos like Glacial Chasm + Eon Hub when we can easily Exsanguinate and Gray Merchant the table to death after clearing the board a couple of times. The only reason why I used to run that combo was because this was back when Drain Life was still my finisher of choice and so that was way too slow to get the job done.
If you still want to add the Glacial Hub combo you most certainly can, it's your deck after all, but you definitely don't need it in my experience. The combo cards are too clunky and useless for the vast majority of the game and the combo is easily disrupted by interaction (any artifact removal) so it's always felt unimpressive at best. I don't mind Glacial Chasm in decks with lots of lifegain and you could certainly add them back in and make room for some Gonti's Machinations (or whatever) to fuel them but even then the card that I typically run instead is No Mercy since it doesn't destroy my lands nor eat my land drops. You could also add more copies of Pestilence because that card is bonkers in dedicated drain decks. Either way the point that I'm trying to make is that you don't have much incentive to add 6-8 cards that won't games of Magic for you when there exists powerful alternatives that can. Given the choice of casting Eon Hub and just hoping that it doesn't get removed and hoping that I can combo it with a Chasm I'd rather jam a Gray Merchant and actually start killing players off.
Hmmm I like, I like alot. It's also cheaper than the other deck I also like how its more aggressive the previous deck tended to hide behind the glacial chasm. One question though what is the point of gonti. Wouldn't Vengeful pharaoh or felhide petrifier work better? I actually have some felhide petrifiers lying around from an old minotaur deck.
Hmmm I like, I like alot. It's also cheaper than the other deck I also like how its more aggressive the previous deck tended to hide behind the glacial chasm. One question though what is the point of gonti. Wouldn't Vengeful pharaoh or felhide petrifier work better? I actually have some felhide petrifiers lying around from an old minotaur deck.
Pharaoh would be fine. It's resilient, defensive and has plenty of Black symbols for Gray Merchant.
The reason why I often include Gonti in Black decks is because it's a budget-minded + defensive 4 drop that beats removal. It threatens to trade with anything, has 2 Black pips for Gray Merchant and even if someone kills it you're still up a card. In a perfect world I would recommend things like No Mercy or Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet but they're more expensive. Gonti is the cheapest card that passes muster which is why I suggest it. You could, for example run Phyrexian Obliterator too, but then the question becomes "do you want to shell out $60.00 for them?" I'm guessing that the answer is no :P.
Felhide Petrifier is a Gonti that doesn't draw you a card. Why wouldn't you take the free card? Like, let's make one thing clear, a 3-4 mana 2/3 with DT isn't remotely playable in multiplayer. That will never win a game of Magic for you. Gonti is cool because he replaces himself and has multiple Black symbols for Gray Merchant. That coupled with his low cost ($ wise) is why I suggested him. Still, by all means, replace him with anything reasonable (i.e. not Felhide Petrifier). Vampire Nighthawk would be fine for example, I wouldn't mind that one nearly as much, but ideally you want something that generates some card advantage.
I get what your saying and I appreciate your budget mindedness . Do you have any advice on how to use gonti's ability as far as choosing an opponent to look at should I focus on other black decks or base my decision around who has the best creatures.
I get what your saying and I appreciate your budget mindedness . Do you have any advice on how to use gonti's ability as far as choosing an opponent to look at should I focus on other black decks or base my decision around who has the best creatures.
Black players are always prime targets since you want amass as many devotion enablers as possible. Gray Merchant is more than enough incentive to nab something that you can slam onto the field. That being said I typically opt for Blue mages myself since the card that I usually want to nab is Counterspell (any permission spell basically). All things being equal you can't go wrong with Counterspell since it will always prevent something game winning/losing for a low sum of mana. That isn't to say that it's always correct to target Blue mages but in a vacuum they're the ones that I tend to favor myself. Otherwise feel free to do whatever you want, you know your meta and decks better than I do, but try to remember that this isn't a generic "creature + removal" deck that wants to play fair games of Magic. A random fatty isn't going to change much so unless you're nabbing something bonkers I wouldn't worry about finding a threat. Also, again, feel free to replace Gonti if he doesn't mesh with your playstyle. He's interchangeable with basically anything.
This deck seems like its going to be more fun than a barrel of monkeys.
Thanks for all your help prid3 I really appreciate it and also thanks for the guides they have been very useful to me.
4 innocent blood
4 exsanguinate
4 retreat to hagra
3 underworld connections
2 barter in blood
4 mutilate
4 syphon mind
3 eon hub
3 glacial hub
25 swamp
22x Swamp
4x Leechridden Swamp
Creatures (10)
4x Gifted Aetherborn
2x Gonti, Lord of Luxury
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Innocent Blood
4x Exsanguinate
1x Shadows of the Past
4x Oath of Liliana
4x Underworld Connections
4x Mutilate
1x Pestilence
2x Syphon Mind
Given or take a set of Gonti's Machinations. I realize that I was the person who originally proposed this deck but for what it's worth it was designed something like 10 years ago. We don't really need to use combos like Glacial Chasm + Eon Hub when we can easily Exsanguinate and Gray Merchant the table to death after clearing the board a couple of times. The only reason why I used to run that combo was because this was back when Drain Life was still my finisher of choice and so that was way too slow to get the job done.
If you still want to add the Glacial Hub combo you most certainly can, it's your deck after all, but you definitely don't need it in my experience. The combo cards are too clunky and useless for the vast majority of the game and the combo is easily disrupted by interaction (any artifact removal) so it's always felt unimpressive at best. I don't mind Glacial Chasm in decks with lots of lifegain and you could certainly add them back in and make room for some Gonti's Machinations (or whatever) to fuel them but even then the card that I typically run instead is No Mercy since it doesn't destroy my lands nor eat my land drops. You could also add more copies of Pestilence because that card is bonkers in dedicated drain decks. Either way the point that I'm trying to make is that you don't have much incentive to add 6-8 cards that won't games of Magic for you when there exists powerful alternatives that can. Given the choice of casting Eon Hub and just hoping that it doesn't get removed and hoping that I can combo it with a Chasm I'd rather jam a Gray Merchant and actually start killing players off.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Pharaoh would be fine. It's resilient, defensive and has plenty of Black symbols for Gray Merchant.
The reason why I often include Gonti in Black decks is because it's a budget-minded + defensive 4 drop that beats removal. It threatens to trade with anything, has 2 Black pips for Gray Merchant and even if someone kills it you're still up a card. In a perfect world I would recommend things like No Mercy or Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet but they're more expensive. Gonti is the cheapest card that passes muster which is why I suggest it. You could, for example run Phyrexian Obliterator too, but then the question becomes "do you want to shell out $60.00 for them?" I'm guessing that the answer is no :P.
Felhide Petrifier is a Gonti that doesn't draw you a card. Why wouldn't you take the free card? Like, let's make one thing clear, a 3-4 mana 2/3 with DT isn't remotely playable in multiplayer. That will never win a game of Magic for you. Gonti is cool because he replaces himself and has multiple Black symbols for Gray Merchant. That coupled with his low cost ($ wise) is why I suggested him. Still, by all means, replace him with anything reasonable (i.e. not Felhide Petrifier). Vampire Nighthawk would be fine for example, I wouldn't mind that one nearly as much, but ideally you want something that generates some card advantage.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Black players are always prime targets since you want amass as many devotion enablers as possible. Gray Merchant is more than enough incentive to nab something that you can slam onto the field. That being said I typically opt for Blue mages myself since the card that I usually want to nab is Counterspell (any permission spell basically). All things being equal you can't go wrong with Counterspell since it will always prevent something game winning/losing for a low sum of mana. That isn't to say that it's always correct to target Blue mages but in a vacuum they're the ones that I tend to favor myself. Otherwise feel free to do whatever you want, you know your meta and decks better than I do, but try to remember that this isn't a generic "creature + removal" deck that wants to play fair games of Magic. A random fatty isn't going to change much so unless you're nabbing something bonkers I wouldn't worry about finding a threat. Also, again, feel free to replace Gonti if he doesn't mesh with your playstyle. He's interchangeable with basically anything.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
4 gifted aetherborn
2 vampire nighthawk
4 gray merchant of asphodel
Spells
4 innocent blood
4 exsanguinate
4 mutilate
2 syphon mind
1 shadow of the past
4 oath of liliana
1 pestilence
4 underworld connections
4 leechridden swamp
22 swamp
This deck seems like its going to be more fun than a barrel of monkeys.
Thanks for all your help prid3 I really appreciate it and also thanks for the guides they have been very useful to me.