None of those cards are especially important. It basically doesn't matter what you replace them with. Mass removal, recursion, spot removal, Intangible Virtue, Cathars' Crusade, more Stonecloakers, virtually anything would work just fine.
None of those cards are especially important. It basically doesn't matter what you replace them with. Mass removal, recursion, spot removal, Intangible Virtue, Cathars' Crusade, more Stonecloakers, virtually anything would work just fine.
Thanks for the speed of response.
I'll try the cards and tell you how they work for me. I find it very good replacement option Intangible Virtue I will use this letter very well. Cathars' Crusade It costs a lot of mana. But I have to see how it works for me. I can not fault it without trying. Thanks again for your customary help
I'm digging what you're putting out. My build and my justifications:
LAND
4 Seaside Citadel (the reason for needing a splash of U and G will be revealed momentarily...)
4 Adarkar Wastes (or other non-CIPT WU land)
1 Mistveil Plains
15 Plains
BOUNCERS
4 Whitemane Lion
4 Kor Skyfisher
3 Stonecloaker
PUMPERS
2 Celestial Crusader
TUTORS
4 Trophy Mage
GOODIES
4 Oketra's Monument
4 Shrine of Loyal Legions / Genesis Chamber
1 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
1 Tangleroot
1 Sword of Vengence / Loxodon Warhammer / Sword of Fire and Ice
REMOVAL
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Planar Collapse
My thought process was like this. This deck really is at its best when you're packing a Monument, so let's run a tutor to get the monument that also can trigger it and be recycled with all the bouncers. Once you have the tutor, then it makes some sense to have a toolbox available. The Tangleroot can stand in for half of a monument (because it effectively pays for 1 out of the 2 mana you use to cast your bouncers). The Bestiary lets you draw cards off of the bouncers, obviously, and when it's combined with Tangleroot it gets even sillier. Finally, there's an equipment slot to give you the option of slapping a Sword on a Kor Skyfisher and going to town that way if you want to.
I'm not sure whether Genesis Chamber or Shrine of Loyal Legions works best. The former is more explosive if your curve goes perfectly, but the latter will continue to steadily increase value over time even if you're out of gas otherwise. They both do similar things once you're looping a Skyfisher.
For anthem effects, I like Celestial Crusader more than cheaper alternatives. Because it has Flash and Split Second, and you don't usually need it early, I feel like the cost is mitigated a bit. It also pumps your other white creatures, not just the tokens -- again, important if you need to get through in the air. And, it's another flying body to hold a Sword if you're going that route. This does mean that your anthem dies when you Collapse the Plane, which is too bad, but I think it's a worthy trade.
I'm replying to this topic mostly to subscribe and see what other developments are going on with this deck. Looks super fun. Has Crescendo of war been effective for you? I've never really used it so I don't know. Would a simple Anthem be better? or Dictate of Heliod?
I'm replying to this topic mostly to subscribe and see what other developments are going on with this deck. Looks super fun. Has Crescendo of war been effective for you? I've never really used it so I don't know. Would a simple Anthem be better? or Dictate of Heliod?
I've been playing the deck semi-regularly, and I switched out the Crescendo for other finishers because I lost a few games to other players with fliers/unblockables that randomly one-shotted me. The flex spots in the deck can be pretty much whatever you want, so I change things around a lot. Soul Sisters + Aetherflux Reservoir is a really fun way to get around combat if you're dealing with pillowfort strategies. A black splash for Zulaport Cutthroat + any sac outlet is also great, although I tend to avoid straight drain/Impact Tremors decks because of how uninteractive the games get. I'm waiting on a set of Raiders' Spoils to see if that makes a black splash a little more fun. Dictate of Heliod is definitely a great substitute for Crescendo of War(Although Cathars' Crusade is orders of magnitude stronger for the same mana cost), as is Intangible Virtue. Anything that remotely supports your overall gameplan will be at least playable.
For life gain shenanigans what about Suture Priest? Seems like a fine addition
I don't see Suture Priest being all that great here. Sure, with the Monument out it costs the same as Soul Warden, and you'll probably gain ALMOST as much life off of it than you will off a Warden, since you're the one producing the vast majority of creatures. But how many games will it win that you weren't already going to in the first place? The only reason I'd play Soul Warden in this deck is to go all-in on the Aetherflux Reservoir plan. In that case you just want as much life as possible. The 3-4 points of life loss provided by Suture Priest won't matter at all once you're zapping people for 50. And it paints a big target on you. People hate playing against effects that nickel and dime them like that.
For life gain shenanigans what about Suture Priest? Seems like a fine addition
I don't see Suture Priest being all that great here. Sure, with the Monument out it costs the same as Soul Warden, and you'll probably gain ALMOST as much life off of it than you will off a Warden, since you're the one producing the vast majority of creatures. But how many games will it win that you weren't already going to in the first place? The only reason I'd play Soul Warden in this deck is to go all-in on the Aetherflux Reservoir plan. In that case you just want as much life as possible. The 3-4 points of life loss provided by Suture Priest won't matter at all once you're zapping people for 50. And it paints a big target on you. People hate playing against effects that nickel and dime them like that.
I'll +1 this but what I will say is that Genesis Chamber does change the math slightly, especially if you want to get aggressive. People tend to create far more critters than they typically do.
I really like this deck! I'm just wondering though: don't you either need some form of mass creature pump to kill more quickly OR some lifegain in order to have some resilience to prevent having to play kingmaker?
I'm just wondering though: don't you either need some form of mass creature pump to kill more quickly OR some lifegain in order to have some resilience to prevent having to play kingmaker?
This is without a doubt the most highly contested aspect of the deck and I don't think that there's a great answer one way or another. Yes, you could add 4x Coat of Arms, but then you also have to draw 5 lands and combo off for it to be relevant. You also have to find cards to remove in order to make room for it which is going to impact the consistency of the overall build.
I dunno, maybe it's time that Wall of Omens gets the axe.
If you replace the Beastmaster Ascension with Concordant Crossroads you can actually make infinite tokens with the Lion and Skyfisher. All you need is a way to untap all your creatures, like maybe Vitalize? and it's your win right there. And if you have a Genesis Chamber you can use on of the token to produce to more and the other for mana. Your build lacks some resiliency in that it has no recursion whatsoever. If you go the infinite route, you can actually lose Squadron Hawk.
Use the deck yesterday, I feel there are many enchantments and something I can add or remove, but I do not know which cards
any advice?
20 lands is too few and 10x Forest seems absurd. Each one that you draw represents a mana source that you can't use for your combo which seems extremely suspect to me. I have a hard imagining that your current build is better than the base build when literally half of the lands in your deck are nigh worthless.
Moreover, the core problem with your deck is that it straight-up loses to interaction. After all, if someone removes your Monument then none of your other cards do anything relevant and that's a scary place to be in multiplayer. Your deck is probably better than mine in ideal use-case scenarios where your opponents completely ignore you but I'd wager dollars to donuts that you're more-or-less scooping to a single Beast Within or whatever.
I would recommend cutting back on the Green splash in a big way and slowly modifying the deck to test cards like Rite, Ascension and Shards over time. Fielding some number of them seems eminently reasonable to me but starting with 4 of each is far too ambitious on your part. Test a couple of copies here and there but don't stray too far from the base until you find a core build that works.
FWIW I disagree with the previous poster about cards like Vitalize. If your plan is to reliably assemble Monument + Skyfisher + Rites + Crossroads + Vitalize all I can say is "good luck with that." You know that you dun goofed when the "Win-Mores" from "Magical Christmas Land" are laughing at you.
I actually recommended this inclusion in earlier iterations of the deck but have since removed all mentions of the combo after testing it out. It's far too weak and inconsistent at 3 cards and in practice it never enabled me to win games that I otherwise lost. However, it definitely caused me to lose games that I could have easily won had I drawn more relevant spells at the time. There's simply too much that can go wrong and so few ways for everything to come together in order to turn the tides of a losing game.
If you replace the Beastmaster Ascension with Concordant Crossroads you can actually make infinite tokens with the Lion and Skyfisher. All you need is a way to untap all your creatures, like maybe Vitalize? and it's your win right there. And if you have a Genesis Chamber you can use on of the token to produce to more and the other for mana. Your build lacks some resiliency in that it has no recursion whatsoever. If you go the infinite route, you can actually lose Squadron Hawk.
Thanks for answering: Ertai Planeswalker
I can try the infinite combo that mentions: Beastmaster Ascension + Concordant Crossroads
Lion and Skyfisher.
In my game group rarely used cards to destroy enchantments or artifacts, but it is not something that will always be. Sooner or later you can start remodeling your decks to make them find me.
20 lands is too few and 10x Forest seems absurd. Each one that you draw represents a mana source that you can't use for your combo which seems extremely suspect to me. I have a hard imagining that your current build is better than the base build when literally half of the lands in your deck are nigh worthless.
Would you add fetchlands?
Moreover, the core problem with your deck is that it straight-up loses to interaction. After all, if someone removes your Monument then none of your other cards do anything relevant and that's a scary place to be in multiplayer. Your deck is probably better than mine in ideal use-case scenarios where your opponents completely ignore you but I'd wager dollars to donuts that you're more-or-less scoping to a single Beast Within or whatever.
I want to implement the cards: Beastmaster AscensionAura ShardsCryptolith Rite
I just do not know how to leave the deck with them.
You gave them as an alternative, but I do not know how to add them so that everything obtains a good synergy.
I would recommend cutting back on the Green splash in a big way and slowly modifying the deck to test cards like Rite, Ascension and Shards over time. Fielding some number of them seems eminently reasonable to me but starting with 4 of each is far too ambitious on your part. Test a couple of copies here and there but don't stray too far from the base until you find a core build that works.
Of course my intention is to improve the deck by trying different things. I like how you leave it monowhite, but I like more to play with 2 colors.
Just try it until you have a good agreement with: white and green + Oketra's Monument
Thanks for helping me as always prid3
Fetchlands are great if you could afford them but you could also use things like Sunpetal Grove instead. Your combo only works with White mana and so ideally you want as many of those as possible.
For what it's worth I would recommend starting with Aura Shards and Beastmaster Ascension and leaving Cryptolith Rite on the sidelines for now. That card is extremely win-more and can basically only help you in the games in which you're completely left to your own devices. If you're adamant on running all 3 of those cards then I'd start with 1 Rite for now and only bump that number up if you find yourself consistently comboing off in the first place. Until then I'd keep it simple and stick to the core deck as much as possible.
Fetchlands are great if you could afford them but you could also use things like Sunpetal Grove instead. Your combo only works with White mana and so ideally you want as many of those as possible.
For what it's worth I would recommend starting with Aura Shards and Beastmaster Ascension and leaving Cryptolith Rite on the sidelines for now. That card is extremely win-more and can basically only help you in the games in which you're completely left to your own devices. If you're adamant on running all 3 of those cards then I'd start with 1 Rite for now and only bump that number up if you find yourself consistently comboing off in the first place. Until then I'd keep it simple and stick to the core deck as much as possible.
Can it be something like that or what do you think?
I've been underwhelmed with Stonecloaker. I pretty much only wish I had them when someone is playing decks based exclusively around graveyard abuse, which isn't very common in my meta. That and for a little extra flying defense. The Hawks nearly always come out early and get Wrathed away, leaving the air really open. Been thinking of a U/W build that uses Day's Undoing to stop graveyard tricks and allow me to re-buy Hawks and singletons like Planar Collapse. Are there any other notable blue cards for the deck? Sky Hussar has been good but doesn't count as a blue card.
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Oreskos Explorer
Crescendo of War
Planar Collapse
What can I use to replace it?
None of those cards are especially important. It basically doesn't matter what you replace them with. Mass removal, recursion, spot removal, Intangible Virtue, Cathars' Crusade, more Stonecloakers, virtually anything would work just fine.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Thanks for the speed of response.
I'll try the cards and tell you how they work for me. I find it very good replacement option
Intangible Virtue I will use this letter very well. Cathars' Crusade It costs a lot of mana. But I have to see how it works for me. I can not fault it without trying. Thanks again for your customary help
Which would bump your whitemane lions.
Too expensive. I like "Cloudgoat Rangers" well enough but I couldn't envision myself running any of them in a combo deck such as this.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
LAND
4 Seaside Citadel (the reason for needing a splash of U and G will be revealed momentarily...)
4 Adarkar Wastes (or other non-CIPT WU land)
1 Mistveil Plains
15 Plains
BOUNCERS
4 Whitemane Lion
4 Kor Skyfisher
3 Stonecloaker
PUMPERS
2 Celestial Crusader
TUTORS
4 Trophy Mage
GOODIES
4 Oketra's Monument
4 Shrine of Loyal Legions / Genesis Chamber
1 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
1 Tangleroot
1 Sword of Vengence / Loxodon Warhammer / Sword of Fire and Ice
REMOVAL
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Planar Collapse
My thought process was like this. This deck really is at its best when you're packing a Monument, so let's run a tutor to get the monument that also can trigger it and be recycled with all the bouncers. Once you have the tutor, then it makes some sense to have a toolbox available. The Tangleroot can stand in for half of a monument (because it effectively pays for 1 out of the 2 mana you use to cast your bouncers). The Bestiary lets you draw cards off of the bouncers, obviously, and when it's combined with Tangleroot it gets even sillier. Finally, there's an equipment slot to give you the option of slapping a Sword on a Kor Skyfisher and going to town that way if you want to.
I'm not sure whether Genesis Chamber or Shrine of Loyal Legions works best. The former is more explosive if your curve goes perfectly, but the latter will continue to steadily increase value over time even if you're out of gas otherwise. They both do similar things once you're looping a Skyfisher.
For anthem effects, I like Celestial Crusader more than cheaper alternatives. Because it has Flash and Split Second, and you don't usually need it early, I feel like the cost is mitigated a bit. It also pumps your other white creatures, not just the tokens -- again, important if you need to get through in the air. And, it's another flying body to hold a Sword if you're going that route. This does mean that your anthem dies when you Collapse the Plane, which is too bad, but I think it's a worthy trade.
I've been playing the deck semi-regularly, and I switched out the Crescendo for other finishers because I lost a few games to other players with fliers/unblockables that randomly one-shotted me. The flex spots in the deck can be pretty much whatever you want, so I change things around a lot. Soul Sisters + Aetherflux Reservoir is a really fun way to get around combat if you're dealing with pillowfort strategies. A black splash for Zulaport Cutthroat + any sac outlet is also great, although I tend to avoid straight drain/Impact Tremors decks because of how uninteractive the games get. I'm waiting on a set of Raiders' Spoils to see if that makes a black splash a little more fun. Dictate of Heliod is definitely a great substitute for Crescendo of War(Although Cathars' Crusade is orders of magnitude stronger for the same mana cost), as is Intangible Virtue. Anything that remotely supports your overall gameplan will be at least playable.
I don't see Suture Priest being all that great here. Sure, with the Monument out it costs the same as Soul Warden, and you'll probably gain ALMOST as much life off of it than you will off a Warden, since you're the one producing the vast majority of creatures. But how many games will it win that you weren't already going to in the first place? The only reason I'd play Soul Warden in this deck is to go all-in on the Aetherflux Reservoir plan. In that case you just want as much life as possible. The 3-4 points of life loss provided by Suture Priest won't matter at all once you're zapping people for 50. And it paints a big target on you. People hate playing against effects that nickel and dime them like that.
I'll +1 this but what I will say is that Genesis Chamber does change the math slightly, especially if you want to get aggressive. People tend to create far more critters than they typically do.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
EDIT: Maybe Coat of Arms?
T1: Enlightened Tutor
T2: Genesis Chamber
T3: Oketra's Monument
T4: Squadron Hawk x 4
T5: Coat of Arms Attack with 4 4/4 Hawks and 8 8/8 Myrs.
Also, Rebuff the Wicked might be good to protect your engine pieces while maintaining tempo, as they remain in play.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
This is without a doubt the most highly contested aspect of the deck and I don't think that there's a great answer one way or another. Yes, you could add 4x Coat of Arms, but then you also have to draw 5 lands and combo off for it to be relevant. You also have to find cards to remove in order to make room for it which is going to impact the consistency of the overall build.
I dunno, maybe it's time that Wall of Omens gets the axe.
I prefer Apostle's Blessing since it works against things like Reclamation Sage and Sylvan Primordial.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
10x Plains
10x Forest
Creatures (16)
4x Squadron Hawk
4x Whitemane Lion
4x Kor Skyfisher
4x Wall of Omens
4x Enlightened Tutor
3x Genesis Chamber
4x Aura Shards
4x Beastmaster Ascension
4x Cryptolith Rite
4x Oketra's Monument
Use the deck yesterday, I feel there are many enchantments and something I can add or remove, but I do not know which cards
any advice?
So I would say:
-4 Beastmaster Ascension
-4 Squadron Hawk
-2 Aura Shards
+1 Genesis Chamber
+4 Concordant Crossroads
+2 Vitalize
+2 Treasure Hunter
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
20 lands is too few and 10x Forest seems absurd. Each one that you draw represents a mana source that you can't use for your combo which seems extremely suspect to me. I have a hard imagining that your current build is better than the base build when literally half of the lands in your deck are nigh worthless.
Moreover, the core problem with your deck is that it straight-up loses to interaction. After all, if someone removes your Monument then none of your other cards do anything relevant and that's a scary place to be in multiplayer. Your deck is probably better than mine in ideal use-case scenarios where your opponents completely ignore you but I'd wager dollars to donuts that you're more-or-less scooping to a single Beast Within or whatever.
I would recommend cutting back on the Green splash in a big way and slowly modifying the deck to test cards like Rite, Ascension and Shards over time. Fielding some number of them seems eminently reasonable to me but starting with 4 of each is far too ambitious on your part. Test a couple of copies here and there but don't stray too far from the base until you find a core build that works.
FWIW I disagree with the previous poster about cards like Vitalize. If your plan is to reliably assemble Monument + Skyfisher + Rites + Crossroads + Vitalize all I can say is "good luck with that." You know that you dun goofed when the "Win-Mores" from "Magical Christmas Land" are laughing at you.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Also, when making infinite creatures, Altar of Dementia can turn this into a mono-white mill deck
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
I actually recommended this inclusion in earlier iterations of the deck but have since removed all mentions of the combo after testing it out. It's far too weak and inconsistent at 3 cards and in practice it never enabled me to win games that I otherwise lost. However, it definitely caused me to lose games that I could have easily won had I drawn more relevant spells at the time. There's simply too much that can go wrong and so few ways for everything to come together in order to turn the tides of a losing game.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Thanks for answering: Ertai Planeswalker
I can try the infinite combo that mentions: Beastmaster Ascension + Concordant Crossroads
Lion and Skyfisher.
In my game group rarely used cards to destroy enchantments or artifacts, but it is not something that will always be. Sooner or later you can start remodeling your decks to make them find me.
Would you add fetchlands?
I want to implement the cards: Beastmaster Ascension Aura Shards Cryptolith Rite
I just do not know how to leave the deck with them.
You gave them as an alternative, but I do not know how to add them so that everything obtains a good synergy.
Of course my intention is to improve the deck by trying different things. I like how you leave it monowhite, but I like more to play with 2 colors.
Just try it until you have a good agreement with: white and green + Oketra's Monument
Thanks for helping me as always prid3
Fetchlands are great if you could afford them but you could also use things like Sunpetal Grove instead. Your combo only works with White mana and so ideally you want as many of those as possible.
For what it's worth I would recommend starting with Aura Shards and Beastmaster Ascension and leaving Cryptolith Rite on the sidelines for now. That card is extremely win-more and can basically only help you in the games in which you're completely left to your own devices. If you're adamant on running all 3 of those cards then I'd start with 1 Rite for now and only bump that number up if you find yourself consistently comboing off in the first place. Until then I'd keep it simple and stick to the core deck as much as possible.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Can it be something like that or what do you think?
4x Windswept Heath
4x Razorverge Thicket
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Temple Garden
4x Plains
1x forest
4x Squadron Hawk
4x Whitemane Lion
4x Kor Skyfisher
4x Wall of Omens
4x Treasure Hunter
2x Stonecloaker
4x Enlightened Tutor
4x Genesis Chamber
2x Aura Shards
2x Beastmaster Ascension
1x Cryptolith Rite
4x Oketra's Monument
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I'm at work do not watch well